Sura Al Falaq
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Surah 1132
It has never been consistent with natural disposition to be among wrongdoers, unjust, corrupt and wicked.Do you agree it is a prepositional phrase coupled with possessive phrase? If so, then you will agree a prep. phrase relates to some other element in the text. Please relate it with some element.
No I don't. Following are the reasons for it.
When is used with perfect. It is used as negative and denies the past. Hence, is a negative or prohibitive sentence. Therefore, it can't be a possessive phrase. Also this will be consider subject of the whole verse/sentence. a prepositional phrase and the object or predicate of the verse/sentence.
Please let me know if you need any further explanation.
Regards,
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No I don't. Following are the reasons for it.
When is used with perfect. It is used as negative and denies the past. Hence, is a negative or prohibitive sentence. Therefore, it can't be a possessive phrase. Also this will be consider subject of the whole verse/sentence. a prepositional phrase and the object or predicate of the verse/sentence.
Please let me know if you need any further explanation.
Regards,
Void of any sense. I did not say is a possessive phrase. How you call these two words as "subject of sentence"? If Ma is negation of following verb, then what is the object of verb and who is the subject of verb?
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Void of any sense. I did not say is a possessive phrase. How you call these two words as "subject of sentence"? If Ma is negation of following verb, then what is the object of verb and who is the subject of verb?
Mazhar can we keep the discussion objective please without personal opinions and beliefs? Are you aware that there are negative or prohibitive sentences in Classic Arabic? Yes and no please. If yes, is not one? If not why?
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Mazhar can we keep the discussion objective please without personal opinions and beliefs? Are you aware that there are negative or prohibitive sentences in Classic Arabic? Yes and no please. If yes, is not one? If not why?
Relate it to something, otherwise void of sense.
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Relate it to something, otherwise void of sense.
I will but first thing first. We have to agree or disagree with reason and evidence for this discussion to be fruitful. Otherwise, this is futile and waste of time, as usual. So please respond to above questions first.
Waqas, you were asking for evidence. Why are you quiet now?
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I will but first thing first. We have to agree or disagree with reason and evidence for this discussion to be fruitful. Otherwise, this is futile and waste of time, as usual. So please respond to above questions first.
Waqas, you were asking for evidence. Why are you quiet now?
I think it's because he is not here.
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Mazhar can we keep the discussion objective please without personal opinions and beliefs? Are you aware that there are negative or prohibitive sentences in Classic Arabic? Yes and no please. If yes, is not one? If not why?
Languages have negation and prohibitive words. It is naive question.
If you take in isolation, it will mean "He (someone mentioned earlier) has not created" referring to something that person may have claimed to have created.
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Languages have negation and prohibitive words. It is naive question.
If you take in isolation, it will mean "He (someone mentioned earlier) has not created" referring to something that person may have claimed to have created.
It is not just a negative word, this construction is a negative sentence. Shouldn't it be translated "He was not created" instead of "He has not created". Since should be translated "he was created".
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Mazhar, I am seeing problem from your side as well. I don't think there is any concept of possession in Arabic verbal paradigm. The prototype for all Arabic verbs paradigm is . It is and can only be translated as "He did it". It is never and shouldn't be translated as "He has done it". Therefore, it is wrong to consider having possessive third person singular pronoun. It only and should be translated as "He was created".
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Mazhar, I am seeing problem from your side as well. I don't think there is any concept of possession in Arabic verbal paradigm. The prototype for all Arabic verbs paradigm is . It is and can only be translated as "He did it". It is never and shouldn't be translated as "He has done it". Therefore, it is wrong to consider having possessive third person singular pronoun. It only and should be translated as "He was created".
Why confusion? Where did I say this perfect verb has anything to do with possessive construction? A verb has always a subject; the doer of the act.
"He was created" is passive and with negation Ma it will become "He was not created".
Does it seem to relate to what you earlier said
Surah 1132
It has never been consistent with natural disposition to be among wrongdoers, unjust, corrupt and wicked.
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bkanwar2 , can you give the word for word of your translation
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bkanwar2 , can you give the word for word of your translation
I think he did in the first page.
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bkanwar2 , can you give the word for word of your translation
Are you asking for only verse 1132 or whole Sura? This is word for word translation. Else are you asking for a detailed linguistic explanation of each step involved in this translation? Please clarify.
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Why confusion? Where did I say this perfect verb has anything to do with possessive construction? A verb has always a subject; the doer of the act.
"He was created" is passive and with negation Ma it will become "He was not created".
Does it seem to relate to what you earlier said
So we agree that should be translated as "He was created" and not as "He has created"?
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Are you asking for only verse 1132 or whole Sura? This is word for word translation. Else are you asking for a detailed linguistic explanation of each step involved in this translation? Please clarify.
Just word for word translation preferably for entire surah .later ,in sha ALLAH we will develop linguistic explanation if time permits
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So we agree that should be translated as "He was created" and not as "He has created"?
Furthermore, that "he has created" is active voice and "he was created" a passive voice. I agree with you on both. However, question for you does the third person singular pronoun has also always to be "He" and can not be "It"?
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So we agree that should be translated as "He was created" and not as "He has created"?
No unless you change the vowels on the first and second radical. Moreover, both "He was created" and "He has created" are just dependent clause and thereby incomplete and vague.
You have to relate it with some independent clause.
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Furthermore, that "he has created" is active voice and "he was created" a passive voice. I agree with you on both. However, question for you does the third person singular pronoun has also always to be "He" and can not be "It"?
English "it" pronoun could be pleonastic; in Arabic there is no such thing.
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Let me you give you the whole linguistic methodology used in deriving this meanings. The syntactical analysis is more important part of it. This verse as written starts of with a prepositional phrase. A prepositional phrase usually can not be a subject of a sentence unless it is "a local sentence" or which is not the situation here. Then, analysis of confirms it to be a negative sentence. A whole sentence can be a subject of another whole sentence. Whereas, although a prepositional phrase most of the time can't be a subject of sentence, but can be a predicate of sentence.
With this background knowledge if we rearrange this verse it becomes
translated as a word "He/It has been created according to measures and proportions". used with perfect denies past. Hence, translated as literal "He/it has never been created according to measures and proportions". This doesn't make much sense, does it? Furthermore, paying attention to meaning of next phrase, which is "to be among wrongdoers, unjust, corrupt and wicked". One natural question is what are natural measures and proportions for humans. Are these not what constitute our natural disposition?
So if we replace "natural disposition", in meaning of . It meaning becomes " It has never been consistent with natural disposition (created measures and proportions)" this whole sentence becomes subject of the verse. It is followed by its Predicate, a prepositional phrase meaning "to be among wrongdoers, unjust, corrupt and wicked. Therefore, the translation of the whole verse.
Surah 1132
It has never been consistent with natural disposition to be among wrongdoers, unjust, corrupt and wicked.
