?he should fast it? vs ?he should fast in it?

Noon_waalqalami

Verse 2185 ?It was the prevalent deplorable state ( ) of burning violence and tyranny

peace, was that what receipt for sheep meant?

2185 shahru ramadan (heat cycle) the one descends in it the Qur?an?
Perf558 shahru jumada (dried cycle) the first from sanatin twosome and twenty (i.e. 22) ...

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PERF_558

http//oi67.tinypic.com/nfogsg.jpg

Perf 558 "30 pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" 25 April year 643 shahru jumada 1 (30th last day of month)

http//astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases0601.html

NewMoon shr# FullMoon Year
Dec 27 6 Jan 10 643 CE
Jan 25 7 Feb 9
Feb 24 8 Mar 11
Mar 25 9 Apr 10
Apr 24 10 May 9 Apr 25 Jumada al-awwal 30 (Perf 55
May 23 11 Jun 7
Jun 21 12 Jul 7 1st full moon after summer solstice
Jul 21 1 rmd Aug 5
Aug 20 2 Sep 3
Sep 18 3 Oct 3
Oct 18 4 Nov 1
Nov 17 5 Dec 1
Dec 16 6 Dec 31

The_Sardar

The Sardar do you see what I mean?

Actually i do not sadly, what is it?

MikeJ

Hi all,

please, I was hoping to get some serious discussion about this verse. So please do not post any replies that don?t have anything to do with my question.

You clarify your command of the Arabic language is not good.
Billions and billions of people who do have had the best conclusion regarding this.
Fast the whole month.
Do not follow your desires.

Genius analysis. Which word is "in" in Classical Arabic?
Do you find it in the word falyaum'hu?

NO.

Dont be naive and think every word must translated directly.
That is not the case, "in" is added in the translation to facilitate comprehension.
That's it.

Fast the month and stop trying to deviate from the umma

My understanding of Quranic Arabic grammar is quite good. I have a good understanding of five languages, I know very well that you don?t translate every word directly. If you don?t have anything constructive to say, please just don?t answer.

peace mikej -- it points back to the shr.

Thanks, but this part was already clear to me. I am wondering how it points back. Is it a or is it a ?

Maybe I should give an example I wonder if the -hu could be something like in ? ?. This translates to ?I study in the morning?. But there is no word in the Arabic sentence that corresponds to the ?in?, we get the temporal meaning by using the accusative case (&#1576. It does not mean ?I study the morning?.

Peace
Mike

Novice

Maybe I should give an example I wonder if the -hu could be something like in ? ?. This translates to ?I study in the morning?. But there is no word in the Arabic sentence that corresponds to the ?in?, we get the temporal meaning by using the accusative case (&#1576. It does not mean ?I study the morning?.

Could you please give an example from Quran. Today's casual Arabic is different from Quranic clasic Arabic.

Novice

Actually i do not sadly, what is it?

Brother he meant blind following your imams and scholars, totally ignoring 1736

NewFrenzy

peace, was that what receipt for sheep meant?

Yes

MikeJ

Could you please give an example from Quran. Today's casual Arabic is different from Quranic clasic Arabic.

I just thought Id use a simple sentence, but of course there are constructions like this in the Quran.

For example in 1911

Then he came out to his people from the mirb and he signaled to them to glorify in the morning and in the evening

Like in the simple sentence I used above, there is no equivalent to in in the Arabic text. But it is completely clear that and are adverbs of time and not direct objects. Of course the sentence does not mean and he signaled to them to glorify the morning and the evening.

Peace,
Mike

Novice

For example in 1911

Then he came out to his people from the mirb and he signaled to them to glorify in the morning and in the evening

Salaam

There is no "in" in this verse as per my humble understanding.

Then he came out to his people from the mihrab and signalled to them to sabbahu "all possible times"

When we say he was working day and night in English, it does not mean "working in the day and in the night" but all possible times.

Layth

Peace/Salam Mike,

I agree with you.

The easiest solution for this discussion I have always found is simply to refer back to 2183-184 which tells us 'the fast is for a period of 'limited' days' and therefore negates the 'full month' argument.

Just like the Hajj is explained as being 'months', but in another verse it tells us it is 'days' (days within months); so is the fast given as 'days' with a 'month'.

Also interesting, if we examine 2185 we will note that 'shahad' is not to witness, but to be aware of (see 1226). Thus the month may have already begun while you are just becoming 'aware' of it, negating the fast from start to finish.

"The month of Ramadhan, in which the Qur?an was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Those of you who have become aware of the month shall fast it; and whoever is ill or traveling, then the same count from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you to, and that you may be thankful." (2185)

Regards,

Layth

Novice

"The month of Ramadhan, in which the Qur?an was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Those of you who have become aware of the month shall fast it; and whoever is ill or traveling, then the same count from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you to, and that you may be thankful." (2185)

Salaam Layth

In your translation above what is meant by "shall fast it"?

Regards

HP_TECH

Please go ahead and delete my account.

good_logic

Brother HP_TECH.
May the Lord bless you and look after you.
Keep your trust in GOD Alone.
Peace.

hawk99

Peace/Salam Mike,

I agree with you.

The easiest solution for this discussion I have always found is simply to refer back to 2183-184 which tells us 'the fast is for a period of 'limited' days' and therefore negates the 'full month' argument.

Just like the Hajj is explained as being 'months', but in another verse it tells us it is 'days' (days within months); so is the fast given as 'days' with a 'month'.

Also interesting, if we examine 2185 we will note that 'shahad' is not to witness, but to be aware of (see 1226). Thus the month may have already begun while you are just becoming 'aware' of it, negating the fast from start to finish.

"The month of Ramadhan, in which the Qur?an was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Those of you who have become aware of the month shall fast it; and whoever is ill or traveling, then the same count from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you to, and that you may be thankful." (2185)

Regards,

Layth

I agree with layth and Mike mainly because of this "God wants to bring you ease and not
to bring you hardship" therefore in my understanding one should be comfortable
in "all" areas of the deen rather it's salat, fasting, zakat etc., Therefore, whatever number
of days one can comfortably fast they should do so!

@ Layth give your translation of 1226

peace

HP_TECH

Fasting the month is obligatory.

Why do you make claims for which you have no proof nor evidence, other than mere wishful thinking?

Stop making up stuff you faithless lot. Do you not fear Allah? You follow your desires and each other in all kinds of lawlessness.

Are you not worse than the sectarians you mock, when you invent your own laws with little to no evidence? Have you rejected (Sunna, Hadith )The Wisdom and Knowledge sent down and Quran in exchange of your own Assumptions? How ill is that!

Fasting is better for you if you know!

2183-184

-Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo kutiba AAalaykumu alssiyamu kama kutiba AAala allatheena min qablikum laAAallakum tattaqoona
-Ayyaman maAAdoodatin faman kana minkum mareedan aw AAala safarin faAAiddatun min ayyamin okhara waAAala allatheena yuteeqoonahu fidyatun taAAamu miskeenin faman tatawwaAAa khayran fahuwa khayrun lahu waan tasoomoo khayrun lakum in kuntum taAAlamoona

-O you who believe! Is prescribed for you fasting as was prescribed to those from before you, so that you may (become) righteous.
-(Fasting for) days numbered. So whoever is among you sick or on a journey, then a prescribed number of days other. And on those who can afford it, a ransom (of) feeding a poor. And whoever volunteers good then it (is) better for him. And to fast (is) better for you, if you know.

FASTING IS IMPORTANT!
3335

Inna almuslimeena waalmuslimati waalmu/mineena waalmu/minati waalqaniteena waalqanitati waalssadiqeena waalssadiqati waalssabireena waalssabirati waalkhashiAAeena waalkhashiAAati waalmutasaddiqeena waalmutasaddiqati waalssa-imeena waalssa-imati waalhafitheena furoojahum waalhafithati waalththakireena Allaha katheeran waalththakirati aAAadda Allahu lahum maghfiratan waajran AAatheeman

Indeed, the Muslim men and the Muslim women, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obedient men and the obedient women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the men who give charity and the women who give charity and the men who fast and the women who fast, and the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard (it), and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a reward great.

FASTING IS A THING OF MERIT WHICH IS MUCH REFERRED TO AND PRESCRIBED AS AN EXPIATION i.e. failing to fulfill your oath and commitment once promised, wanting reconciliation with wife after pronouncing zihar, and when accidentally murdering a believer; AND AS A MANDATE FOR OBSERVING THE SACRED RITES i.e. Ramadhan and Hajj.

2196

Waatimmoo alhajja waalAAumrata lillahi fa-in ohsirtum fama istaysara mina alhadyi wala tahliqoo ruoosakum hatta yablugha alhadyu mahillahu faman kana minkum mareedan aw bihi athan min ra/sihi fafidyatun min siyamin aw sadaqatin aw nusukin fa-itha amintum faman tamattaAAa bialAAumrati ila alhajji fama istaysara mina alhadyi faman lam yajid fasiyamu thalathati ayyamin fee alhajji wasabAAatin itha rajaAAtum tilka AAasharatun kamilatun thalika liman lam yakun ahluhu hadiree almasjidi alharami waittaqoo Allaha waiAAlamoo anna Allaha shadeedu alAAiqabi

And complete the Hajj and the Umrah for Allah. And if you are held back then (offer) whatever (can be) obtained with ease of the sacrificial animal. And (do) not shave your heads until reaches the sacrificial animal (to) its destination. Then whoever is among you ill or he (has) an ailment of his head then a ransom of fasting or charity or sacrifice. Then when you are secure then whoever took advantage of the Umrah followed (by) the Hajj, then (offer) whatever (can be) obtained with ease of the sacrificial animal. But whoever (can) not find - then a fast (of) three days during the Hajj and seven (days) when you return. This (is) ten (days) in all. That (is) for (the one) whose, not is his family present (near) Al-Masjid Al-Haraam. And fear Allah and know that Allah (is) severe (in) retribution.

In the above paragraph we see fasting prescribed both as an expiation for those who are ill and also a as a sacred rite to fulfill while performing hajj and umrah.

492

Wama kana limu/minin an yaqtula mu/minan illa khataan waman qatala mu/minan khataan fatahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin wadiyatun musallamatun ila ahlihi illa an yassaddaqoo fa-in kana min qawmin AAaduwwin lakum wahuwa mu/minun fatahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin wa-in kana min qawmin baynakum wabaynahum meethaqun fadiyatun musallamatun ila ahlihi watahreeru raqabatin mu/minatin faman lam yajid fasiyamu shahrayni mutatabiAAayni tawbatan mina Allahi wakana Allahu AAaleeman hakeeman

And not is for a believer that he kills a believer except (by) mistake. And whoever killed a believer (by) mistake, then freeing (of) a believing slave and blood money (is to be) paid to his family unless that they remit (as) charity. But if (he) was from a people hostile to you and he was a believer then freeing (of) a believing slave. And if (he) was from a people between you and between them, (is) a treaty, then blood money (is to be) paid to his family, and freeing (of) a believing slave. And whoever (does) not find, then fasting (for) two months consecutively, (seeking) repentance from Allah, and Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

589

La yu-akhithukumu Allahu biallaghwi fee aymanikum walakin yu-akhithukum bima AAaqqadtumu al-aymana fakaffaratuhu itAAamu AAasharati masakeena min awsati ma tutAAimoona ahleekum aw kiswatuhum aw tahreeru raqabatin faman lam yajid fasiyamu thalathati ayyamin thalika kaffaratu aymanikum itha halaftum waihfathoo aymanakum kathalika yubayyinu Allahu lakum ayatihi laAAallakum tashkuroona

Allah will not call you to account for the thoughtless utterances in your oaths but He for what you contracted (of) the oath. So its expiation (is) feeding (of) ten needy people of average (of) what you feed your families or clothing them or freeing a slave. But whoever (does) not find (that), then fasting (for) three days. That (is the) expiation (of) your oaths when you have sworn. And guard your oaths. Thus Allah makes clear to you His Verses so that you may (be) grateful.

595

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la taqtuloo alssayda waantum hurumun waman qatalahu minkum mutaAAammidan fajazaon mithlu ma qatala mina alnnaAAami yahkumu bihi thawa AAadlin minkum hadyan baligha alkaAAbati aw kaffaratun taAAamu masakeena aw AAadlu thalika siyaman liyathooqa wabala amrihi AAafa Allahu AAamma salafa waman AAada fayantaqimu Allahu minhu waAllahu AAazeezun thoo intiqamin

O you who believe! (Do) not kill the game while you (are in). And whoever killed it among you intentionally, then penalty (is) similar (to) what he killed of the cattle, judging it two just men among you (as) an offering reaching the Kabah or an expiation - feeding needy people or equivalent (of) that (in) fasting, that he may taste (the) consequence (of) his deed. Allah pardoned what (has) passed, but whoever returned, then Allah will take retribution from him. And Allah (is) All-Mighty, Owner (of) Retribution.

583-4

Waallatheena yuthahiroona min nisa-ihim thumma yaAAoodoona lima qaloo fatahreeru raqabatin min qabli an yatamassa thalikum tooAAathoona bihi waAllahu bima taAAmaloona khabeerun
Faman lam yajid fasiyamu shahrayni mutatabiAAayni min qabli an yatamassa faman lam yastatiAA fa-itAAamu sitteena miskeenan thalika litu/minoo biAllahi warasoolihi watilka hudoodu Allahi walilkafireena AAathabun aleemun

And those who pronounce zihar (to) their wives then go back on what they said, then freeing (of) a slave before they touch each other. That you are admonished to it. And Allah of what you do (is) All-Aware.
Then whoever (does) not find, then fasting (for) two months consecutively before they both touch each other. But (he) who not is able then (the) feeding (of) sixty needy one(s). That - so that you may believe in Allah and His Messenger, and these (are the) limits (of) Allah, and for the disbelievers (is) a punishment painful.

Why did I daraba all these verses prescribing fasting you might ask?
Because they demonstrate clearly that fasting is of common place in the Deen. Also it shows that the duration of fasting which is prescribed for various situations ranges from three days to two months.
Two month fasting is in fact prescribed twice as an expiation for what can be simplified as essentially involuntary man slaughter and for unjustly renouncing marital vows.

Fasting is common place in the Deen.
Why does it then surprise you that fasting in the month is prescribed for you?

How do you read 2185 differently than it is clearly cited?

Shahru ramadana allathee onzila feehi alqur-anu hudan lilnnasi wabayyinatin mina alhuda waalfurqani faman shahida minkumu alshshahra falyasumhu waman kana mareedan aw AAala safarin faAAiddatun min ayyamin okhara yureedu Allahu bikumu alyusra wala yureedu bikumu alAAusra walitukmiloo alAAiddata walitukabbiroo Allaha AAala ma hadakum walaAAallakum tashkuroona

Month (of) Ramadhaan (is) that was revealed therein the Quran, a Guidance for mankind and clear proofs of Guidance and the Criterion. So whoever witnesses among you the month, then he should fast in it, and whoever is sick or on a journey then prescribed number (should be made up) from days other. Intends Allah for you ease and not intends for you hardship, so that you complete the prescribed period and that you magnify Allah for He guided you so that you may (be) grateful.

"Whoever witness among you the MONTH..."!
It is NOT saying "Whoever witness among you a specific number of days.." However a specific number of days can be a month!

Even if you claim the fast is for a number of days then

28-29 days is still a number of days
What is the number of days that is decreed by Allah other than the entire month of Ramadhaan, if ye are truthful?

Do not invent lies about Allah, or you will indubitably suffer a grievous punishment.

Hawk I am disappointed in your rationale and judgement concerning this.

Is it blindness in your eyes or herd mentality that drives you all to spew nonsense and lies?

"Intends Allah for you ease and not intends for you hardship" This simply means that Allah wants you to fulfill the prescribed number of days on different days, which do not have to be in sync or correlate with the rest of the ummah's fast, if you are traveling or sick, you can postpone, but this does not mean that since Allah intends for you ease then the fast is not the entire month.
The ease and lack of difficulty is in the opportunity to fulfill the fast regardless of being unable to fast at the exact time that it should begin. Period. Stop the gymnastics people.

I know your assumption is that since Allah uses ease then it would suggest that the fast is not the entire month. However there is as much evidence for such an assumption as there is evidence for the existence of unicorns.

It is also very biased and subjective to insinuate that one month fast is as difficult as you are all suggesting.

It is a shame to be a part of such an online community that is filled with hypocrisy and pretense. I have no relation to any of you who do not truly worship God Alone.

Layth

Salam,

@ Layth give your translation of 1226

1226 He said ?She is the one who seduced me from myself,? and a witness from her family gave testimony ?If his shirt was torn from the front, then she is truthful, and he is the liar.?

The witness did not "see" what transpired inside the room, nor was he present, but he gave testimony after the fact on the basis that he became "aware" (this is the same word 'shahida' as used in 2185).

hawk99

Salam,

1226 He said ?She is the one who seduced me from myself,? and a witness from her family gave testimony ?If his shirt was torn from the front, then she is truthful, and he is the liar.?

The witness did not "see" what transpired inside the room, nor was he present, but he gave testimony after the fact on the basis that he became "aware" (this is the same word 'shahida' as used in 2185).

makes sense, thanks handshake

Novice

1226 He said ?She is the one who seduced me from myself,? and a witness from her family gave testimony ?If his shirt was torn from the front, then she is truthful, and he is the liar.?

The witness did not "see" what transpired inside the room, nor was he present, but he gave testimony after the fact on the basis that he became "aware" (this is the same word 'shahida' as used in 2185).

Salam

There are two way of looking at 1226, A and B as under

A- The witness did not see what transpired inside the room, nor was he
present. It is an assumption and does not fit with the definition of a witness.

wit?ness /witns/

noun

a person who sees an event, typically a crime or accident, take place
"police are appealing for witnesses to the accident"
synonyms observer, onlooker, eyewitness, spectator, viewer, ... more
evidence; proof
"the memorial service was witness to the wide circle of his interest"

verb

see (an event, typically a crime or accident) take place
"a bartender who witnessed the murder"
synonyms see, observe, watch, view, notice, ... more
give or serve as evidence of; testify to
"his writings witness to an inner toughness"

Powered by Oxford Dictionaries
Witness | Definition of Witness by Merriam-Webster

B- The witness did saw what transpired inside the room and became a witness
as per definition of a witness.

Novice

Novice

I agree with layth and Mike mainly because of this "God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship"

Salam

My purpose is not to challenge but to learn. Please see the following

2184 ..... ...... and if/that Tasumu better for you all

2185.... ..... Allah intends to bring ease with you and not to bring hardshipwith you...

I guess there is diferrence between for you and with you.

Novice

The_Sardar

Salam

My purpose is not to challenge but to learn. Please see the following

2184 ..... ...... and if/that Tasumu better for you all

2185.... ..... Allah intends to bring ease with you and not to bring hardshipwith you...

I guess there is diferrence between for you and with you.

Novice

Could you tell us the difference?

Novice

Could you tell us the difference?

Peace The Sardar

means for you which is used in 2184, and
means with you which is used in 2185

At present I can only say that I do not see traditional translation fitting with the Arabic words of Quran in 2185.

Novice