?he should fast it? vs ?he should fast in it?
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Hi all,
I am currently pondering over an issue regarding fasting that, I think, has not been discussed here yet
I am trying to understand the nature of the -hu suffix in falyasumhu in verse 2185
So whoever witnesses among you the moon/month he should fast (in) it.
I hope to get some input from someone who understands the Arabic language better than I do.
My understanding is the following -hu is a (attached pronoun). As such it can either be in the (accusative) or (genitive) case. I can think of two different kinds of accusative words that would make sense in this situation
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(direct object) of yasum. Falyasumhu would then mean ?he should fast it?, i.e. he should fast the . Normally, -hu is interpreted in this way (see e.g. http//corpus.quran.com/treebank.jsp?chapter=2&verse=185&token=13).
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But I think -hu could also be a (adverb of time). Falyasumhu would then mean ?he should fast IN it?. I could find support for this only in Sam Gerrans? translation of the Qur?an.
So why is the distinction important? If -hu was a direct object, it would probably mean that we are supposed to fast over the course of the whole (whether that means the duration of the full moon or the whole month). If -hu was an adverb of time, however, it would mean that we are supposed to fast in for some unspecified amount of time.
In my opinion the second option makes more sense from a language point of view. ?Fasting the month? sounds wrong to me, I do not think that ?to fast? can take a period of time as a direct object. But I?m not an expert on these issues, maybe I?m wrong.
So my main questions to you are Do you see any problems with option 2 from a grammar or textual point of view? And do you know any verse in the Qur?an where an attached pronoun undoubtedly is an adverb of time?
Peace,
Mike -
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You clarify your command of the Arabic language is not good.
Billions and billions of people who do have had the best conclusion regarding this.
Fast the whole month.
Do not follow your desires.Genius analysis. Which word is "in" in Classical Arabic?
Do you find it in the word falyaum'hu?NO.
Dont be naive and think every word must translated directly.
That is not the case, "in" is added in the translation to facilitate comprehension.
That's it.Fast the month and stop trying to deviate from the umma
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- But I think -hu could also be a (adverb of time). Falyasumhu would then mean ?he should fast IN it?.
peace mikej -- it points back to the shr.
2185 shahru/lunar cycle ramadan (heat) the one descends in it the qur?an/recitation guidance to the humankind and clear signs from the guidance and the criterion so whom shahida among you l-shahra/the lunar cycle falyasumhu/so should said person abstain it and whom be illness of or on journey so count from days another intends the god with you the ease and not intends with you the hardship and to complete ye of the count and to magnify ye of the god on what guide you and perhaps you thanks giving
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Peace all,
My opinion is that shahr ramadan may be something negative, which needs to be stopped. Hence falyasumhu. There is no "in". So it would mean "stop it".
Imraan
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Verse 2185 ?It was the prevalent deplorable state ( ) of burning violence and tyranny ( ) in which the Qur'an was bestowed as a ?timeless mode of conduct? (ى unto man and a self-evident proof of that guidance, and as the standard by which to discern the true from the false (ِ. Hence, whoever of you faced this situation, he must abstain from being a part of it (ُ. And it is again emphasized that those who still suffer from weakness or doubt about their convictions, or are midway in the journey of seeking, may postpone their involvement in this movement to a later time. It is because God wills that you may have ease and abundance (‌, and does not will you to suffer hardship and want ( but He desires that you must accomplish your preparedness any way so that you extol God?s glory the way He has guided you to do; and He desires that your efforts may bear fruit
Source http//quranstruelight.com/thematic-translation-installments-1-35-in-english/crucial-themes-of-fasting-and-pilgrimage-installment-8
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Verse 2185 ?It was the prevalent deplorable state ( ) of burning violence and tyranny ( ) in which the Qur'an was bestowed as a ?timeless mode of conduct? (ى unto man and a self-evident proof of that guidance, and as the standard by which to discern the true from the false (ِ. Hence, whoever of you faced this situation, he must abstain from being a part of it (ُ. And it is again emphasized that those who still suffer from weakness or doubt about their convictions, or are midway in the journey of seeking, may postpone their involvement in this movement to a later time. It is because God wills that you may have ease and abundance (‌, and does not will you to suffer hardship and want ( but He desires that you must accomplish your preparedness any way so that you extol God?s glory the way He has guided you to do; and He desires that your efforts may bear fruit
Source http//quranstruelight.com/thematic-translation-installments-1-35-in-english/crucial-themes-of-fasting-and-pilgrimage-installment-8
Ah i think i know what this from. It's my friend Aurangzaib Yousufzai's translation.
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Verse 2185 ?It was the prevalent deplorable state ( ) of burning violence and tyranny
peace, was that what receipt for sheep meant?
2185 shahru ramadan (heat cycle) the one descends in it the Qur?an?
Perf558 shahru jumada (dried cycle) the first from sanatin twosome and twenty (i.e. 22) ...https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PERF_558
http//oi67.tinypic.com/nfogsg.jpg
Perf 558 "30 pharmouthi of the indiction year 1" 25 April year 643 shahru jumada 1 (30th last day of month)
http//astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases0601.html
NewMoon shr# FullMoon Year
Dec 27 6 Jan 10 643 CE
Jan 25 7 Feb 9
Feb 24 8 Mar 11
Mar 25 9 Apr 10
Apr 24 10 May 9 Apr 25 Jumada al-awwal 30 (Perf 55
May 23 11 Jun 7
Jun 21 12 Jul 7 1st full moon after summer solstice
Jul 21 1 rmd Aug 5
Aug 20 2 Sep 3
Sep 18 3 Oct 3
Oct 18 4 Nov 1
Nov 17 5 Dec 1
Dec 16 6 Dec 31 -
The Sardar do you see what I mean?
Actually i do not sadly, what is it?
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Hi all,
please, I was hoping to get some serious discussion about this verse. So please do not post any replies that don?t have anything to do with my question.
You clarify your command of the Arabic language is not good.
Billions and billions of people who do have had the best conclusion regarding this.
Fast the whole month.
Do not follow your desires.Genius analysis. Which word is "in" in Classical Arabic?
Do you find it in the word falyaum'hu?NO.
Dont be naive and think every word must translated directly.
That is not the case, "in" is added in the translation to facilitate comprehension.
That's it.Fast the month and stop trying to deviate from the umma
My understanding of Quranic Arabic grammar is quite good. I have a good understanding of five languages, I know very well that you don?t translate every word directly. If you don?t have anything constructive to say, please just don?t answer.
peace mikej -- it points back to the shr.
Thanks, but this part was already clear to me. I am wondering how it points back. Is it a or is it a ?
Maybe I should give an example I wonder if the -hu could be something like in ? ?. This translates to ?I study in the morning?. But there is no word in the Arabic sentence that corresponds to the ?in?, we get the temporal meaning by using the accusative case (ب. It does not mean ?I study the morning?.
Peace
Mike -
Maybe I should give an example I wonder if the -hu could be something like in ? ?. This translates to ?I study in the morning?. But there is no word in the Arabic sentence that corresponds to the ?in?, we get the temporal meaning by using the accusative case (ب. It does not mean ?I study the morning?.
Could you please give an example from Quran. Today's casual Arabic is different from Quranic clasic Arabic.
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Could you please give an example from Quran. Today's casual Arabic is different from Quranic clasic Arabic.
I just thought Id use a simple sentence, but of course there are constructions like this in the Quran.
For example in 1911
Then he came out to his people from the mirb and he signaled to them to glorify in the morning and in the evening
Like in the simple sentence I used above, there is no equivalent to in in the Arabic text. But it is completely clear that and are adverbs of time and not direct objects. Of course the sentence does not mean and he signaled to them to glorify the morning and the evening.
Peace,
Mike -
For example in 1911
Then he came out to his people from the mirb and he signaled to them to glorify in the morning and in the evening
Salaam
There is no "in" in this verse as per my humble understanding.
Then he came out to his people from the mihrab and signalled to them to sabbahu "all possible times"
When we say he was working day and night in English, it does not mean "working in the day and in the night" but all possible times.
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Peace/Salam Mike,
I agree with you.
The easiest solution for this discussion I have always found is simply to refer back to 2183-184 which tells us 'the fast is for a period of 'limited' days' and therefore negates the 'full month' argument.
Just like the Hajj is explained as being 'months', but in another verse it tells us it is 'days' (days within months); so is the fast given as 'days' with a 'month'.
Also interesting, if we examine 2185 we will note that 'shahad' is not to witness, but to be aware of (see 1226). Thus the month may have already begun while you are just becoming 'aware' of it, negating the fast from start to finish.
"The month of Ramadhan, in which the Qur?an was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Those of you who have become aware of the month shall fast it; and whoever is ill or traveling, then the same count from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you to, and that you may be thankful." (2185)
Regards,
Layth
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"The month of Ramadhan, in which the Qur?an was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion. Those of you who have become aware of the month shall fast it; and whoever is ill or traveling, then the same count from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and magnify God for what He has guided you to, and that you may be thankful." (2185)
Salaam Layth
In your translation above what is meant by "shall fast it"?
Regards
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Brother HP_TECH.
May the Lord bless you and look after you.
Keep your trust in GOD Alone.
Peace.
