The word "prison" in the qur'an
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Peace Ju5.
I explained "Iktau Aydyahuma" the way it makes sense in the verse. Qoran set precedents and defines its own context.
Your explanation is not logical nor makes sense.
Here is a small example;
"cut the hand" can be from a small cut like a graze to completely severe the hand( I cut my hand shaving is also clear Arabic but it does not mean I severed my hand completely?). Which one is it in 538? Or are you going to use your common sense without given instruction? That will be your justice not Qoran s!!!!
You cannot and will not be able to explain how to do it according to 538, because it is an idiom.
If you still won t see it, then you are making up your own understanding and you know it.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace. -
- The qur'an is not a source to show that it is an idiom as it is not clear, and i am asking for an external source. Do you have any source else than the qur'an showing cut the hands can be used as an idiom in old arabic
Salam don't know this helps but check Lisan Al-Arab, Maqayis Al-Lughah or Kitab Al-Ayn.
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If it is not slavery what it is? It is even the same in the bible, from the same story. You could say its prison and not slavery. But you have no proof of that. In fact it is not even clear and you want to take that as a commandmant from allah while it is a story of the past.
Maybe this could answer it. Read onwards of 1279 to 12102, you will see in 12102, speaks about an revelation from the unseen news.
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Also you said "It is even the same in the bible, from the same story" May i ask where in the bible does it speak about the story?
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Peace Ju5.
I explained "Iktau Aydyahuma" the way it makes sense in the verse. Qoran set precedents and defines its own context.
Your explanation is not logical nor makes sense.
Here is a small example;
"cut the hand" can be from a small cut like a graze to completely severe the hand( I cut my hand shaving is also clear Arabic but it does not mean I severed my hand completely?). Which one is it in 538? Or are you going to use your common sense without given instruction? That will be your justice not Qoran s!!!!
You cannot and will not be able to explain how to do it according to 538, because it is an idiom.
If you still won t see it, then you are making up your own understanding and you know it.
Thank you and GOD bless you.
Peace.Then do we make small cuts like graze in 533? from opposites sides? or do we amputate ?Which one is it? or are you going to use your common sense without given instruction?
Now you didn't answer to these two questions so allow me to copy paste them
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The qur'an is not a source to show that it is an idiom as it is not clear, and i am asking for an external source. Do you have any source else than the qur'an showing cut the hands can be used as an idiom in old arabic ?
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why is it used with the same terms as real physical cutting in other verses if it is a known idiom ?
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Maybe this could answer it. Read onwards of 1279 to 12102, you will see in 12102, speaks about an revelation from the unseen news.
when is say it is not clear, i meant that it wasn't a commandmant at all, it is a story plain and simple, like noah or tamud
bible joseph story https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_(Genesis)#The_silver_cup
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when is say it is not clear, i meant that it wasn't a commandmant at all, it is a story plain and simple, like noah or tamud
Are you sure? Because in 12102 it says
12102
Thalika min anba-i alghaybinooheehi ilayka wama kunta ladayhim ithajmaAAoo amrahum wahum yamkuroona
That is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. You were not among them when they arranged their plan and were scheming.Don't think it's just a story, they mean something.
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bible joseph story https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_(Genesis)#The_silver_cup
Also i don't remember anything about silver cup in Quran. Unless i missed it, please show the verses mentioning silver cup with Joseph in Quran.
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Peace Ju5.
You are stuck with how to cut the hand/s aren t you?
You are looking for excuses if you keep insisting on your way.Also it is irrelevant what you are asking, it does not matter whether idioms like it exist or not. The verse makes sense only as an idiom.
Look here at 1231How did these ladies "cut their hands"? Did they make a small graze or severed their hands completely?
You are wasting your time arguing a clear case of "You do not know any details of how to cut the hand/s in 538".
No matter what you say, Qoran has not given any command of "cutting hands" otherwise it would have specified how and with what.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
You may say "this is the more intense verb form". "The first verb form is used in 538, and not the second." Well the first verb form is also used in 6946
Then We would have cut from him the aorta.
This is intense enough.
Actually in Quranix.org the word faiqtaAAoo (ا is in second person masculine plural imperative verb while in 6946 the word laqataAAna (ا is in first person plural perfect verb. I don't know if this is something different since my grammar knowledge is poor. Wakas, you have a good knowledge on Quranic Arabic grammar, could you tell us if there is a difference?
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Actually in Quranix.org the word faiqtaAAoo (ا is in second person masculine plural imperative verb while in 6946 the word laqataAAna (ا is in first person plural perfect verb. I don't know if this is something different since my grammar knowledge is poor. Wakas, you have a good knowledge on Quranic Arabic grammar, could you tell us if there is a difference?
The verb is the first form in both cases, that is, it is non intensive. But this is turning to be a greater toy for the Qur'an hater that he could ever expect for. at is clearly becoming intensive is the quest for imbecility.
Apart form those things that have said on the lack of precision in 5.38 to be taken as to do something as concrete as to severe hands, there is the question that theft is a most gneeral term in any language, no proper legislation anywhere comes up with such a ludicruous penalty for a non described or defined crime. First they describe the crime properly and then fix the amounts that are unduly obtained and then and only then fix any penalty. And there go the superredeemer os lost dumb Qura'n followers and show as how to understand nonsense properly. It is clear that the Qur'an is not a penal code nor pretends to be. It gives general directions, which by the way it does not pretend that are new in the world, they are the directions which wisdom and common sense have been considered all along as appropriate in more or less all moral civilisations.
And that is exactly what it does, fitting well in the context, in 5.38, he or she who appropriates unduly what is not theirs should be cut off the means or possibility of doing such a thing. In order for the means to be physical cutting what should be obviously severed should be the brains not the hands.
The title of the thread, by the way, continues to be very funny for a "progressive" one.
Prison is about the most infamous and corrupting means of correcting anybody. That some people get out corrected is a monument to human capacity to regenerate.Salaam
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Salaam The Sardar
Both verbs are from the root . Any word derived from a root shows the meaning of the root. The word to focus on in 538 is (hand).
When we say
It is not in my hands, or
Give me a hand, or
How can I help you in this matter as you have cut your hands.we do not use the word "hand" in literal sense but idiomatically.
Every language has idioms and people using a language know the idioms of that language.
Like good logic said severing hands in 538 is not practicable and make no sense.
Novice
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And that is exactly what it does, fitting well in the context, in 5.38, he or she who appropriates unduly what is not theirs should be cut off the means or possibility of doing such a thing. In order for the means to be physical cutting what should be obviously severed should be the brains not the hands.
(........37
.......and none but people of wisdom reflect.
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Salaam The Sardar
Both verbs are from the root . Any word derived from a root shows the meaning of the root. The word to focus on in 538 is (hand).
When we say
It is not in my hands, or
Give me a hand, or
How can I help you in this matter as you have cut your hands.we do not use the word "hand" in literal sense but idiomatically.
Every language has idioms and people using a language know the idioms of that language.
Like good logic said severing hands in 538 is not practicable and make no sense.
Novice
Salam/Peace i check the root word of qataa and it's Qaf-Tay-Ayn ( ع = to cut/sever/disunite/separate/detach, to disable in prosecuting, unable to proceed in, withdrew, break down, perish/cease/finish/fail, cut short / stop, intercepted/interrupted, put an end/stop to, a piece/bit/part/portion cut off from a whole, herd, distinct portion.
qata'a vb. (1)
perf. act. 772, 595, 6946
impf. act. 227, 3127, 87, 9121, 1325, 2215, 2929
impv. 538
perf. pass. 645
pcple. act. 2732
pcple. pass. 1566, 5633qit n.m. 1181, 1565
qita n.f. (pl. of qitah) 1027, 134
qatta'a vb. (2)
perf. act. 7160, 7168, 1231, 1250, 4715
impf. act. 7124, 2071, 2649, 4722
perf. pass. 1331, 2219
impf. pass. 533taqatta'a vb. (5)
perf. act. 2166, 694, 2193, 2353
impf. act. 9110LL, V8 supplement, p 244 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=qTe
Yes in Project Root List it is in first verb from but i noticed in PRL 6946 the word laqataAAna (ا is in perfect (i.e. action done/completed) and active while in 538 faiqtaAAoo (ا is in imperative which is are verbs used to give orders, commands,warning or instructions, and (if you use "please" to make a request.
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So what do you think of this Novice?
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Salam/Peace i check the root word of qataa and it's Qaf-Tay-Ayn ( ع = to cut/sever/disunite/separate/detach, to disable in prosecuting, unable to proceed in, withdrew, break down, perish/cease/finish/fail, cut short / stop, intercepted/interrupted, put an end/stop to, a piece/bit/part/portion cut off from a whole, herd, distinct portion.
qata'a vb. (1)
perf. act. 772, 595, 6946
impf. act. 227, 3127, 87, 9121, 1325, 2215, 2929
impv. 538
perf. pass. 645
pcple. act. 2732
pcple. pass. 1566, 5633qit n.m. 1181, 1565
qita n.f. (pl. of qitah) 1027, 134
qatta'a vb. (2)
perf. act. 7160, 7168, 1231, 1250, 4715
impf. act. 7124, 2071, 2649, 4722
perf. pass. 1331, 2219
impf. pass. 533taqatta'a vb. (5)
perf. act. 2166, 694, 2193, 2353
impf. act. 9110LL, V8 supplement, p 244 ## http//ejtaal.net/aa/#q=qTe
Yes in Project Root List it is in first verb from but i noticed in PRL 6946 the word laqataAAna (ا is in perfect (i.e. action done/completed) and active while in 538 faiqtaAAoo (ا is in imperative which is are verbs used to give orders, commands,warning or instructions, and (if you use "please" to make a request.
I think the tense, the mood are all clear, problem there, but the translations are a mess.
It has already been said by some poster I don't know whether in this thread or another, the verb in Arabic that would properly mean AMPUTATE is b-t-r, that would clinch it.
As it is, is it traslated as cut off, which can be anything in english can be amputate or can be simply cut access, so there can come to you the anti Qur'an cursaders pretending that if a hand is mentionned the only thing you can do with it is amputate it. And the fact that they have no shame in their crusading seems to make tham believe that they have become doctors in Arabic language and in the mind that drafted the Qur'an.
I understand that people want to make sure of things so they are not mislead by or made to shut up by troublemakers, and in fact some of them do participate here and of course are welcome or should be at any rate, but the lack of interest and the insistence on making the Qur'an the champion of nonsense, give away the ill will and need to spite on the Qur'an METAPHORICALLY.
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Salam/Peace i check the root word of qataa and it's Qaf-Tay-Ayn ( ع = to cut/sever/disunite/separate/detach, to disable in prosecuting, unable to proceed in, withdrew, break down, perish/cease/finish/fail, cut short / stop, intercepted/interrupted, put an end/stop to, a piece/bit/part/portion cut off from a whole, herd, distinct portion.
Salaam The Sardar
The root can be used in many ways eg 227
Red part of the verse is "and cut what Allah has commanded to join"...does not mean to physically cut relations.
"Qata'a as-sabeel means to commit dacoity...does not mean to physically cut the way.
"Qata'a Lisaanuhu means to shut somebody off by giving him a favour...does not mean to physically cut a tongue.
These usages are given as examples in reputed Arabic dictionaries.
Yes in Project Root List it is in first verb from but i noticed in PRL 6946 the word laqataAAna (ا is in perfect (i.e. action done/completed) and active while in 538 faiqtaAAoo (ا is in imperative which is are verbs used to give orders, commands,warning or instructions, and (if you use "please" to make a request.
Any word derived from a root reflects the meanings of the root. Verbs have different forms and their meanings depend upon the usage.
How can you cut hands physically for every stealing/theft? In Quran punishment is equal to the crime. Can you cut 10% of hand for a little theft and 80% for a bigger theft?
Such interpretations make no justification.
Novice
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Salaam The Sardar
The root can be used in many ways eg 227
Red part of the verse is "and cut what Allah has commanded to join"...does not mean to physically cut relations.
"Qata'a as-sabeel means to commit dacoity...does not mean to physically cut the way.
"Qata'a Lisaanuhu means to shut somebody off by giving him a favour...does not mean to physically cut a tongue.
These usages are given as examples in reputed Arabic dictionaries.
Any word derived from a root reflects the meanings of the root. Verbs have different forms and their meanings depend upon the usage.
How can you cut hands physically for every stealing/theft? In Quran punishment is equal to the crime. Can you cut 10% of hand for a little theft and 80% for a bigger theft?
Such interpretations make no justification.
Novice
That i agree dear brother of Mankind.
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How can you cut hands physically for every stealing/theft?
Peace,
of course not amputate 538 aydiyahum/hands theirs dual (4 hands) at shoulders.
56 so washes ye of faces yours and hands yours to the elbow
http//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/38?handschrift=163
https//s9.postimg.org/oqqhiwhmn/Ahlwardt_305_ch5v31-41.jpg
