What is Al Asar?
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But he is against "Muslim" tradition, didn't you check the preface?
I do not make a wide distinction between the Quran alone and traditional Muslims as of late. For me the term means something unrelated to one's ideology. Given the fact that he adds (P) after the traditional names like Yusuf or Mo is enough for me to conclude on his stance.
He is against traditional History, yet he adhers to the traditional research background, whih makes him accept some portion of the history in order to mock the other, which is hypocrisy.
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Also check for references in page 121.
It is a bs list of reference
- Books
The Qur?n
The Old Testament
Call of the Sart Hijacking the Geography of the Prophets - The Tajdeed Society of Bahrain (2005)
La Cite D?Isis - Histoire Vraie des Arabes - Pierre Rossi (1976)
Palestine is not the Promised Land - Jameel Effarah (2002)
The Invention of the Jewish People - Shlomo Sand (2009)
The Old Testament is an abstract definition. Which books of the OT is he speaking of? Just Exodus or some other? What is the exact timeframe of Musa, Ibrahim and the Exodus timeline?
The rest of the books could be cited for specific pages in them. Futher he gives a long list of websites of dubious information and research.
- Books
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I do not make a wide distinction between the Quran alone and traditional Muslims as of late. For me the term means something unrelated to one's ideology. Given the fact that he adds (P) after the traditional names like Yusuf or Mo is enough for me to conclude on his stance.
He is against traditional History, yet he has the traditional background, whih makes him accept some portion of the history in order to mock the other, which is hypocricy.
Wait hold on, just because the author added (P) on the names of Yusuf & Muhammad, you assumed that he has traditional background? Sorry if i made a mistake but that is bit odd to do that.
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It is a bs list of reference
The Old Testament is an abstract definition. Which books of the OT is he speaking of? Just Exodus or some other? What is the exact timeframe of Musa, Ibrahim and the Exodus timeline?
The rest of the books could be cited for specific pages in them. Futher he gives a long list of websites of dubious information and research.
If you read the entire 122 pages of the book, you may have your answer.
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Wait hold on, just because the author added (P) on the names of Yusuf & Muhammad, you assumed that he has traditional background? Sorry if i made a mistake but that is bit odd to do that.
Well, yes, and it is quite objective, but I also made an error while typing fast. What I meant, and I've already edited my post, is "he adhers to the traditional research background", what I mean is that in order to refute the Egypt-Palestinian thesis, he has to adher to another even more dubious one, which I suppose is Yemeni theory.
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If you read the entire 122 pages of the book, you may have your answer.
I am sure I won't simply judging from the brief 30-minute analysis of the content I made above. If you have read the entire 122 pages of the book, then please cite me speicific pages where he proves what I requested, i.e. how a wild Arabic tribe (later titled as bani Yisraeli) acquired such a powerful religion. He might also want to speculate on how the wild South Arabians acquired Islam..
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Well, yes, and it is quite objective, but I also made an error while typing fast. What I meant, and I've already edited my post, is "he adhers to the traditional research background", what I mean is that in order to refute the Egypt-Palestinian thesis, he has to adher to another even mroe dubious one, which I suppose is Yemeni.
But how is it dubious if you have not read the entire e-books? Heck i haven't yet done because i am on page 26 on the "hebrew" deception.
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But how is it dubious if you have not read the entire e-books? Heck i haven't yet done because i am on page 26 on the "hebrew" deception.
Because I am familiar with primary outlines of this thesis, without reading the book. I know a person who introduced me some of the concepts of this theory before. Again, question "when?" and "where?" are of lesser imporance, what is of primary imporance to me is "how?"
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Because I am familiar with primary outlines of this thesis, without reading the book. I know a person who introduced me some of the concepts of this theory before. Again, question "when?" and "where?" are of lesser imporance, what is of primary imporance to me is "how?"
Primary outlines? What do you mean by that exactly? And about "when", "where" & "how, well they are important to me.
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But if you are not interested in reading the e-books then that is fine by me. Salam/Peace group
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Primary outlines? What do you mean by that exactly? And about "when", "where" & "how, well they are important to me.
What I want from the alternative thesis is to show, based on observable facts and not speculation based on the dubious translation of the book called the Quran, how the Arabic tribe, later titled as banu Yisraeli acquired such a powerful religious tool now known as rabbinic Judaism, if the Egypt-Palestinian thesis is a false one. Unless he properly addresses this question there is no use in all of the books he wrote, they are simply worthless.
He also likes to use term 'zionism' quite a lot as if zionism has anything to do with Jewish history. Zionism is a product of social movements of the 19th century, and back then it was actually quite a great ideology. Why it became fascistic is another story, but simply parroting this term as something negative makes him unobjective and dogmatic, with an absent of critical thinking.
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He also likes to use term 'zionism' quite a lot as if zionism has anything to do with Jewish history. Zionism is a product of social movements of the 19th century, and back then it was actually quite a great ideology. Why it became fascistic is another story, but simply parroting this term as something negative makes him unobjective and dogmatic, with an absent of critical thinking.
It's been awhile i read Book 1 of the E-Books but i don't remember the author saying Zionism is connected to Judaism. And also how do you exactly that it was a great ideology?
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It's been awhile i read Book 1 of the E-Books but i don't remember the author saying Zionism is connected to Judaism. And also how do you exactly that it was a great ideology?
It becomes evident if you open a book, and use the Ctrl F combination and search for zion.
Early Zionism was an ideology of Jewish people to inherit what they believe is their land, similarly how modern Palestinians strive for freedom and believe in their land. Jewish people back then were under the Muslim rule and it was their movement for freedom, how is it not great or any different from any other freedom-seeking movements?
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It becomes evident if you open a book, and use the Ctrl F combination and search for zion.
Early Zionism was an ideology of Jewish people to inherit what they believe is their land, similarly how modern Palestinians strive for freedom and believe in their land. Jewish people back then were under the Muslim rule and it was their movement for freedom, how is it not great or any different from any other freedom-seeking movements?
Actually Zionism was started by Theodor Herzl who many say that he was not jewish but actually atheist
Note This is from Yahoo answers and i found this like a year ago so i am not sure if this is best way to this
https//answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090112145039AASaL1e
Yes. Theodor Herzl was a self proclaimed atheist. In fact, he hated Judaism and religious Jews. Below is a list of his quotes along with information on him
WORDS OF Theodor Hertzel (the father of zionism) and Other Zionist Leaders
Theodor HertzlThe term "Zionism" was first introduced in 1893 by Nathan Birmbaum, but Theodor Hertzel, an Austrian Jew born to a prosperous, emancipated Budapest family, is recognized as the founder of the Zionist idealogy when he published his book in 1896, "The Jewish State", where he declared that the cure for anti-semitism was the establishment of a Jewish state. As he saw it, the best place to establish this state was in Palestine.
While Hertzel claimed that the establishment of a "Jewish" state would cure anti-Semitism, he also promoted anti-Semitism to further his cause.
Quotes from Hertzel and other Zionists demonstrate their philosophy and the lengths to which they are willing to go to accomplish their goals
In the diary of Hertzel, page 14, he writes a way to solve the problem of anti-Semitism was to speak to the head priest of Vienna to get an appointment with the Pope, to make a mass conversion of all the Jews of Austria to Catholicism. He continues "It should be done on a Sunday, in the middle of the day, with music, and pride, publicly. We are the last generation that held on to the faith of our for-fathers. The conversion would be in St. Stephen's Cathedral." (How could you honor a Jew that wanted to abolish Judaism?)
In the bi-weekly diary, "Temurah", no.2, pg. 12-13, "I didn't circumsize my son Hans, and this will bring the Geula closer."
Ibid. "Simple goyim are better than Rabbis, and the highest are the goyish priests."
In his article "Deutche Tsytung newspaper" Hertzel writes "The Jews make countries fight each other and when they want, make peace. But whatever happens, they get rich from this." (Hitler said this also).
Diary, page 16 "Antisemitism helps to build this kind of jew, Education that will bring to assimilation."
Diary, page 68 "An idea rose on my heart to bring on anti-Semitism and to obliterate Jewish wealth.
In the book "Hertzel", this is a quote "I bless every jew that converts to Christianity and my son, the sooner the better, to save him from anti-Semitism.
After the Dreyfus affair, Hertzel saw the engraned jew hatred and that the goyim would not accept the jews with open arms, then he came up with Zionism, after being convinced by the British goyim on the land of Israel. He himself originally wanted other lands, one of them being Argentina.
In his book, "Altnoyland", "its understood that I have to remember (or mention) to discard negative Jewish things, like the Yiddish language and observing mitzvos."
Doctor Amnun Raz Kavkotzikin -- historian at the University of Ben Gurion says "The country of Hertzel is a western European anti-eastern (Sephardic) and anti-religious."
Chaim Chassas, in the newspaper of the Zionist's, Ha'Arutz, 1943, "Zionism and Judaismm is not one thing but two different things. And of course two contradicting one another. Zionism starts at the place where Judaism is destroyed...one thing is certain, Zionism is not a continuation or healing of wounded Judaism, but rather an uprooting."
Doctor Tom Shagav, historian and newspaper writer, "Zionism saw itself as competition as to religion, to define a jew without torah. A Zionist could be a jew without any faith, even a Kofer."
Doctor Faul Shaul Landau, the personal secretary of Hertzel, saw to it that all of Hertzel's writings were published against the will of the other Zionists who feared the open anti-Semitic element of his writings.
Zev Japotinsky in his article "Outside the camp", in the newspaper "Chadashot HaAretz" 22/10/1919 "In the national home we will announce that those Jews who have on themselves the rust of Gulles, and deny to shave off their beards and payos will be 2nd class citizens and will not have the right to vote."
Ben Gurion, in his book "Yehudi ve' od", "The disapora is ending and everyone is coming, this still does not make a nation but a mixed multitude and dust of man, without a language and education, without roots. To change dust of man to a cultured nation is not an easy job."
Ben Gurion "If I could save all the children of Germany by bringing them to England and only half to Israel, I would choose the second."
Yoel Bronde/Eichman offered him a deal to save a million jews for money and the Sochnute decided not to, and they were murdered.
Wusshishkin, head of the Jewish National Fund in the 1920's (there is a street named after him in Jerusalem), "What's the difference between Jews getting killed in the diaspora and the land of israel? They are sacrifices of a dying nation. There was no purpose in their death, just like there was no purpose in their life. Not so with the sacrifices in our land, we look at them with pride."
Yitzchak Greenbaum, Zionist responsible for
Source(s)
http//www.nkusa.org/Historical_Documents/Herzl_quotes.cfm -
Actually Zionism was started by Theodor Herzl who many say that he was not jewish but actually atheist
Does term 'national' movement tells you something? You can be culturally Jewish yet atheistic in ideology, you can be culturally from a Muslim family yet agnostic. Cultural and religious terminology often interrelate if we speak of 'cultural background'.
I never said Zionism is a religious ideology, I said it is cultural/national movement of the Jewish people, who used the term and history of banu Yisraely as their primary narrative and medium. I am not saying it is not falsified, any history is deeply rooted under the garbage of falsifications, but simply refering to the 'zionists' to refute their claim is non-sense.
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Does term 'national' movement tells you something? You can be culturally Jewish yet atheistic in ideology, you can be culturally from a Muslim family yet agnostic. Cultural and religious terminology often interrelate if we speak of 'cultural background'.
I never said Zionism is a religious ideology, I said it is cultural/national movement of the Jewish people, who used the term and history of banu Yisraely as their primary narrative and medium. I am not saying it is not falsified, any history is deeply rooted under the garbage of falsifications, but simply refering to the 'zionists' to refute their claim is non-sense.
About that, there is no muslim "culture" in the Quran. And cultural Jew? I am not sure if Jew is a ethnicity. Also i never claimed you said Zionism is a religious ideology. Unfortunately many been lied to by Zionists thinking that Zionism is Judaism.
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About that, there is no muslim "culture" in the Quran. And cultural Jew? I am not sure if Jew is a ethnicity
Don't you sense the irony? There is NO Jewish culture in the Bible either, and no 'zionist' culture in the ancient times, yet he refers to it everytime just to point out the 'zionist conspiracy'. A Jew can be considered ethnical, and it is considered ethical similarly as saying 'the countries with Muslim majority' or 'the Muslim countries', although the term Huda (د has nothing to do with it.
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Don't you sense the irony? There is NO Jewish culture in the Bible either, and no 'zionist' culture in the ancient times, yet he refers to it everytime just to point out the 'zionist conspiracy'. A Jew can be considered ethnical, and it is considered ethical similarly as saying 'the countries with Muslim majority' or 'the Muslim countries', althoguh the term Huda (د has nothing to do with it.
Actually Zionist use Hebrew as culture (if i got that right) and it is a ethnicity mentioned in the Bible (again if i got that right)
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Huda.....that word sounds familiar, is the word mentioned in Quran?
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Actually Zionist use Hebrew as culture (if i got that right) and it is a ethnicity mentioned in the Bible (again if i got that right)
Biblical Hebrew is as fabricated as saying is a Jew by religion or is Christian, there is no ethnicity in banu Yisraely either. If I told you that you are potentially a member of banu Yisraely you would not believe me but then you are not a muslemeen either.
Just like Sunni or Shia use their Islam both as culture and as religion, especially natively Muslims, born in Muslim families etc.
