:: Why do you believe that alQuraan is sent down from Allah? ::
-
Everything is from God, even Shaytaan is from God. The question is whether the Qur'an lies as it speaks of itself or whether it is truthful as it speaks of itself.
And wht any person thinks of it is the result of her own beliefs. The things God speaks about in Qur'an address human experience. Not everybody takes whatever regards his o r her own experience in the same way and disposition.
At any rate, nobody can derive from someone else's opinion any law as to the truth or lack of it of anything at all. It will be his or her own experience and his or her own commitmment to truth to him or herslef what will determine what it takes for truth or not.
Objectivity in this case is nonsense. Any objectivity that can be questionned by somebody else according to his or her experience, is no more objective than whatever anybody else can say. The truth is a personal truth or is some flying object outside our power or knowledge, that is a belief.
Many people, I included turst the Qur'an out of personal experience, just as other people distrust the Qur'an out of personal experience.
The question is not who is right but whose loss it is.
If I get well nourished with a particular diet, that diet is not my loss, if the same diet does nothing, for whatever reason, for somebody else, that idet is his loss.
That people come to other people telling them that the diet they are following is wrong that they are not happy with it, that it does this or that, does not make much sense. It is like telling them, since I cannot eat carrots because I vomit you should not eat carrots without vomiting. Redeeming other people may give some satisfaction which makes the redemption of others worth pursuing, but for those who do not want to be redeemed of anything it is just a bizarre thing to do.
Salaam
-
Very unquranic of you.
It seems burhan you have not paid attention to who you are talking about....I mean the people whose idols Abraham broke. His papa already wanted him stoned because of his new belief system.
Abraham makes his intention of planning against the idols known to his father who instead of guarding them leaves. The people later confess their idol couldn't speak. Still they throw Abraham in fire. Do you believe people who don't even care about their own Gods, but hurt ego really experienced religion intolerance from Abraham?
Next, why would Abraham do something so desperate? Hint is in the conversation he had with with papa.
Abraham tells him that he was surrendering to devil.
Here is a bit about how devil's plan works
And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss.Satan promises them and arouses desire in them. But Satan does not promise them except delusion.4119-420
Study aghorism which according to hindus is hinduism in its purest form. Despite the fact that aghoris claim to worship shiva and other deities, going deeper into their system shows they are worshiping the devil. They don't just say that. The idols were the medium. Aliester Crowley, however, did not hesitate to reveal that he used this aghorism to worship satan.
You have to notice that your conclusion forms a paradox and this is how it looks
Abraham showed intolerance towards those who were intolerant towards other religions as well as mixed wrong doing with their own belief despite not caring for their own idols.
See
682 Those who believe and do not confound their belief with wrongdoing; they will have security, and they are guided.
God has no reason to condemn Abraham because the people around him already took up the job to do that by killing him. Only when Quran is followed, that becomes clear. God withdraws himself from those who play god. We also are told in the Quran that these people eventually became losers. That isn't a good news. God even rejects Abraham's prayer for his father. That can only happen to those who do horrible things and play dumb, and that is also with full ego.
You did not question why death is the punishment for breaking an idol. Which sane people do that?
I respect that a few of you have a different view out of billions of Muslims. But a book that guides one and misguides billions does need to be questioned..
Copy what I gave below. Show it to those Muslims and ask them why they read Quran like this if they are actually taking their guidance from the Book
?And we have given you (O, Muhammad) your Sunna, that with it you may explain the verses that are already clear (2118, 37, 4176, 655, 6105, 6126, 911, 111, 2949), so that Muslims will not have to study the Qur?an again, though We said that they should in 244, 2121, 482 and 379, that you may admonish those who interpret it themselves, though we gave them such a right in 542, 2368, 3446, 3829 and 6710, that they may claim to be illiterate in Arabic, though it is clear Arabic tongue (122, 1337, 144, 16103, 1997, 26195, 413, 4144, 427, 433, 4612), that you may admonish those who take the Message as a complete guidance, though We said that it was in 2159, 4174-175, 516, 752, 1057, 179, 1789, 1854, 2849, 346 and 4252, or a distinct explanation of all things as We ordained in 7145, 12111, 2533 and 444; that they may record your ahadith for everything, although they may not believe in any hadith besides this (456), for who is truer in hadith than Allah (487)? That you and others may be taken as Lord, against 379, that you may alter the Message though it contains the same system We revealed to other Prophets (426, 4213), although Allah does not change His Sunna (1777, 3543, 4823), that you may render it incomplete, though We completed it (53, 6115), that you may not judge by the Book as We revealed in 2176, 4105, 544, 548 and 6114, that you may impose on them teachings We told them to disbelieve (223, 1113, 5234), that you may prohibit what Allah has not prohibited (587, 6145-146, 732) that you may be more than a plain warner, though your only duty is to give a plain warning (562, 599, 619, 651, 72, 7184, 1635, 1827, 1997, 20113, 2454, 3523, 3870, 427), that you may follow a path other than the right one (2170, 650, 6106, 6126, 6153-6157, 73, 7203, 1936, 2556-57, 346) that they may accept religion based on their opinions of people (1035-37), believing in Abu Huraira as well as what we ordained in 4136, and justify it with obvious distortions (4730) and flowery, frivolous ahadith (6112, 316), that they may worship as the Jahiliyyah (English barbarity) (4321-22), that they may play the majority game (6116, 12106) and deny (623). Indeed, Allah is Knowing, Wise.? (9130)
Ask them to debunk it. I am yet to find a sectarian who did that. I would warn you against the exhaustion though. I got myself in trouble because they thought those fake verses were actually in the Quran o
-
But I imagine you will ignore them and run away.
Burhan Trump killed Putin
Wakas Do you have a written confession from Trump?
Burhan No but we have eye witness testimony.
Wakas I need evidence. Do you have a written confession from Trump?
Burhan We also have motive a motive. Putin had a dossier on Trump. We also found the murder weapon with Trump's prints on it.
Wakas You are running away. You have not provided any evidence that Trump is guilty.
Burhan We don't have a confession ...
Wakas Haha you admit you have no evidence.
Burhan -- runs away -- -
Nice try burhan.... but another failed false analogy
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_evidence
Direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion (in criminal law, an assertion of guilt or of innocence) directly, i.e., without an intervening inference. ... For example a witness who testifies that he saw the defendant shoot the victim gives direct evidence.
A witness testimony is direct evidence. You never provided direct evidence (and you tacitly admitted it). Ergo, false analogy.
But you got one thing right
Burhan -- runs away --
-
Abraham makes his intention of planning against the idols known to his father who instead of guarding them leaves. The people later confess their idol couldn't speak. Still they throw Abraham in fire. Do you believe people who don't even care about their own Gods, but hurt ego really experienced religion intolerance from Abraham?
Abraham was trying to expose a fraud commonly believed by his own society.
Similar to what this dude named John Oliver tried to do.
Exposing the fraud of Televangelist.Televangelists Last Week Tonight with John Oliver
https//youtu.be/7y1xJAVZxXgMr. John Oliver deed will match the level of difficulty that Abraham faced if these conditions are met
- Oliver's own dad is a televangelist himself which fraud he exposed on public TV.
- The US government is in a form of Absolute Monarchy, and the Emperor / Monarch supported and enforced the religion propagated by televangelists.
- The act of Mr. Oliver, airing a 'blasphemy to God' on public television is punishable by death through burning at the stake; in accordance to US Criminal Law which in itself a Divine law sent down by God in a form of a tablet. (thus even the act of questioning or trying to change the law is also punishable by death).
-
It seems burhan you have not paid attention to who you are talking about....I mean the people whose idols Abraham broke. His papa already wanted him stoned because of his new belief system.
Abraham makes his intention of planning against the idols known to his father who instead of guarding them leaves. The people later confess their idol couldn't speak. Still they throw Abraham in fire. Do you believe people who don't even care about their own Gods, but hurt ego really experienced religion intolerance from Abraham?
Next, why would Abraham do something so desperate? Hint is in the conversation he had with with papa.
Abraham tells him that he was surrendering to devil.
Here is a bit about how devil's plan works
And I will mislead them, and I will arouse in them desires, and I will command them so they will slit the ears of cattle, and I will command them so they will change the creation of Allah." And whoever takes Satan as an ally instead of Allah has certainly sustained a clear loss.Satan promises them and arouses desire in them. But Satan does not promise them except delusion.4119-420
Study aghorism which according to hindus is hinduism in its purest form. Despite the fact that aghoris claim to worship shiva and other deities, going deeper into their system shows they are worshiping the devil. They don't just say that. The idols were the medium. Aliester Crowley, however, did not hesitate to reveal that he used this aghorism to worship satan.
You have to notice that your conclusion forms a paradox and this is how it looks
Abraham showed intolerance towards those who were intolerant towards other religions as well as mixed wrong doing with their own belief despite not caring for their own idols.
See
682 Those who believe and do not confound their belief with wrongdoing; they will have security, and they are guided.
God has no reason to condemn Abraham because the people around him already took up the job to do that by killing him. Only when Quran is followed, that becomes clear. God withdraws himself from those who play god. We also are told in the Quran that these people eventually became losers. That isn't a good news. God even rejects Abraham's prayer for his father. That can only happen to those who do horrible things and play dumb, and that is also with full ego.
You did not question why death is the punishment for breaking an idol. Which sane people do that?
Copy what I gave below. Show it to those Muslims and ask them why they read Quran like this if they are actually taking their guidance from the Book
?And we have given you (O, Muhammad) your Sunna, that with it you may explain the verses that are already clear (2118, 37, 4176, 655, 6105, 6126, 911, 111, 2949), so that Muslims will not have to study the Qur?an again, though We said that they should in 244, 2121, 482 and 379, that you may admonish those who interpret it themselves, though we gave them such a right in 542, 2368, 3446, 3829 and 6710, that they may claim to be illiterate in Arabic, though it is clear Arabic tongue (122, 1337, 144, 16103, 1997, 26195, 413, 4144, 427, 433, 4612), that you may admonish those who take the Message as a complete guidance, though We said that it was in 2159, 4174-175, 516, 752, 1057, 179, 1789, 1854, 2849, 346 and 4252, or a distinct explanation of all things as We ordained in 7145, 12111, 2533 and 444; that they may record your ahadith for everything, although they may not believe in any hadith besides this (456), for who is truer in hadith than Allah (487)? That you and others may be taken as Lord, against 379, that you may alter the Message though it contains the same system We revealed to other Prophets (426, 4213), although Allah does not change His Sunna (1777, 3543, 4823), that you may render it incomplete, though We completed it (53, 6115), that you may not judge by the Book as We revealed in 2176, 4105, 544, 548 and 6114, that you may impose on them teachings We told them to disbelieve (223, 1113, 5234), that you may prohibit what Allah has not prohibited (587, 6145-146, 732) that you may be more than a plain warner, though your only duty is to give a plain warning (562, 599, 619, 651, 72, 7184, 1635, 1827, 1997, 20113, 2454, 3523, 3870, 427), that you may follow a path other than the right one (2170, 650, 6106, 6126, 6153-6157, 73, 7203, 1936, 2556-57, 346) that they may accept religion based on their opinions of people (1035-37), believing in Abu Huraira as well as what we ordained in 4136, and justify it with obvious distortions (4730) and flowery, frivolous ahadith (6112, 316), that they may worship as the Jahiliyyah (English barbarity) (4321-22), that they may play the majority game (6116, 12106) and deny (623). Indeed, Allah is Knowing, Wise.? (9130)
Ask them to debunk it. I am yet to find a sectarian who did that. I would warn you against the exhaustion though. I got myself in trouble because they thought those fake verses were actually in the Quran
Thats an amazing last paragraph.One for keeps.Looks you were on an emotional high.With all those references.Superb.
-
It seems burhan you have not paid attention to who you are talking about....I mean the people whose idols Abraham broke. His papa already wanted him stoned because of his new belief system.
Abraham makes his intention of planning against the idols known to his father who instead of guarding them leaves. The people later confess their idol couldn't speak. Still they throw Abraham in fire. Do you believe people who don't even care about their own Gods, but hurt ego really experienced religion intolerance from Abraham?
Reel,
3 sides to every story
As a believer, you are reading the Abraham story with a bias. You believe in God, Prophets, Angels, Satan etc on faith. Abraham is the good guy and you accept that on faith also. That?s fine, every faithful does that, it?s just something you need to be aware of.
We are never given an objective version of events in the Quran for anything. How do you think Abraham?s father would tell the same story. Just as a fun experiment try writing a paragraph to yourself from his point of view.
How would an objective observer tell the same story? Perhaps, you are assuming God is the objective observer, but you have accepted that on faith alone.
If it is possible, I would like you to suspend your assumptions and re-read the story, critically.Is polytheism evil. Where is the evidence?
We are given very little information about Abraham?s community but lets examine for what crime they are the bad guys.
Their crime is only that they worship idols. What?s wrong with that? Are we saying that a polytheist is inherently bad and a monotheist inherently good? Real life tells us that it makes no difference what your religious beliefs are. Polytheist communities have faired just as well as monotheist. If there was no Mohammed would the middle east have been worse off. The Quran offers no objective evidence that monotheism is better than polytheism.
Of course, certain practices can be bad within religions. E.g. child sacrifice, slavery, circumcision etc. It would be right to challenge those directly, but Abraham makes no such case.
As Abraham is the good guy the author isn?t going to say something about him that would make him look bad. However, the author only has his moral compass to decide what is good/bad. We all have different views of God, life etc and through a lot of bloodshed we have come to the conclusion that secularism is the only way for all of us to live together in peace. Abraham is not willing to make such a compromise.
Abraham had every right to share his views about God, but he had no right threaten his community. 2157. His father threatened him with punishment but never carried it out, until Abraham crossed a line.
For example, right now I?m Abraham. I am challenging your beliefs, which I have the right to do. But I must follow the forum rules. I can?t threaten to hack this website in case you don?t change your beliefs.
If I did cross that line, you?d have every right to take action against me.
We are a bit more civil these days, so thankfully no stoning or fire for me. But you could ban me, or report me to authorities if I hacked FM. Now if my Quran made you out to be the bad guy, you?d be pretty upset.
The problem isn't restricted to Abraham. The central message of the Quran is that anything other than monotheism (as laid out in the Quran) is false, and therefore inherently evil and it followers eternally condemned.
Copy what I gave below
I have been a Quranist for 25 years. I'm responsible for promoting many of the apologetic interpretations. It's funny when people quote them back to me. Karma.
-
Bold How exactly?
Whenever a Prophet arrives he divides a community in two. He creates an in-group and out-group. He turns brother against brother.
He is like George Bush, you are either with him or against him.Watch this. and Part two.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=opx8iDvR_nUFear prophets, Adso, and those prepared to die for the truth, for as a rule they make many others die with them, often before them, at times instead of them.
Umberto Eco, The Name of the Rose
-
Whenever a Prophet arrives he divides a community in two. He creates an in-group and out-group. He turns brother against brother.
He is like George Bush, you are either with him or against him.hmm although i read ur posts i can see where you coming from
lets solve this first , whenever a prophet arrives the purpose is to gather the community to the deafault system(deen) of peace ..
need of prophet was very important , when he arrives its already lot of division is going on the purpose of prophet is to make them to one nation which is recommended by the universal creator on the basis of truth regardless of any race religion or label..
a prophet is not any CLASS.. its the chosen human by universal creator ..
same like he choose who will become the good PLAYER, SINGER, ACTOR, CHEF and so on.. ( on other words who can handle the responsibilty given to him/her)we are in a system and quran and all other things are signs to the originator of everything ...
some signs are dim or broken , some signs are still developing and some are already there but not in our reach ..if anyone sunni/quranist is teating quran as idol then its not different than the system of abraham time so its time to advance our brains and intellect
I have been a Quranist for 25 years. I'm responsible for promoting many of the apologetic interpretations. It's funny when people quote them back to me. Karma.
lol karma ..
okto be honest when i was sunni i always had a fear not to question about the validity of claims inside that.. (it was difficult)
one day i was searching something and i found this site .. but as much i study this site the feeling get more stronger that i was following a wrong direction from last many years of my life ... at the same point when i share these findings with fellow humans who use to solve math problems with me they refuse to accept that .. anyway what matter to me was my own self so when i finally satisfied in my heart i stop doing and beleiving the things and ritual i inherited from my race..at that point i had a fear that some day i will gona disbeleive on this thing ...
i see people who turn from their default faith, they keep going untill they ending up becoming athiest..sunni then quran alone then God alone then agnostic , in some cases athiest..
but after athiest why a stop (... there is something wrong with the nature of person not with the nature of nature)
everybody have their goals and if God is all controlling then everybody is exactly doing what they suppose to do ..
things already planned /set by a planner
about the text we know as Quran , it got some challanges to the reader and audience, when i see any human/jinn already produced a chapter like this then at that time i can say that the challange is been done so need to beleive this book been sent by the lord of worlds.. right now the victory is fully in the favor of this text whereever that text comes from dosent matter to me as long i can see what it claims and thats only one thing..
i would like you to share your experience what makes u think like that although i found it hard to discard that text on the basis of challange which is never accomplished yet by any being..
God bless you
-
Whenever a Prophet arrives he divides a community in two. He creates an in-group and out-group. He turns brother against brother.
He is like George Bush, you are either with him or against him.Divides? I am sorry but how exactly does he divide the community when that community had a history bad misdeeds. Plus he doesn't force you, i never seen a verse saying that the prophet must cause a inner community conflict.
-
If it is possible, I would like you to suspend your assumptions and re-read the story, critically.
A very good suggestions.. there are actually unlimited viewpoints of every story.
Is polytheism evil. Where is the evidence?
We are given very little information about Abraham?s community but lets examine for what crime they are the bad guys.
Their crime is only that they worship idols. What?s wrong with that? Are we saying that a polytheist is inherently bad and a monotheist inherently good? Real life tells us that it makes no difference what your religious beliefs are. Polytheist communities have faired just as well as monotheist. If there was no Mohammed would the middle east have been worse off. The Quran offers no objective evidence that monotheism is better than polytheism.
Marduk, a deity referred as worshiped by Abraham's society gives us a clue of the cultural context that he was living in. Today's there has been many research performed to uncover the entire ancient Mesopotamian civilization and tradition. Thus we have a good understanding of the civilization. The fact that they are very literative culture really helps out. They wrote nearly everything on a piece of clay tablet, where many of those still survives today.
Polytheist (or monotheist) by itself is not necessarily evil or good.
This is similar to Capitalist (or Communist) by itself is not necessarily evil or good.I find the entire notion that the true God is jealous of the other gods to be ridiculous.
Given the true God is all powerful and the entire sequence of events on this entire universe happened in accordance to His will and plan, otherwise it will never happened at all.Yet most certainly, such label has been used to justify the 'evilness' of their respective rivals.
Example Labelling the west as capitalist by the soviet thus justify the hatred and enmity. Labeling the soviets as communist by the american to justify the hatred and enmity.Good and Evil both exist within Polytheist and Monotheist. (or Communist and Capitalist)
A very good example of evil monotheist is ISIS of today.
Performing similar atrocities performed by polytheists at the same place (Mesopotamia) 4000 years ago.Of course, certain practices can be bad within religions. E.g. child sacrifice, slavery, circumcision etc. It would be right to challenge those directly, but Abraham makes no such case.
Human sacrifice, murder, torture performed by whomever (Polytheist, Monotheist, Capitalist, Communist) is certainly evil.
But Abraham did nearly murdered his own son..
Perhaps surrounded by insanity of religion around him as human sacrifice was a common religious practice performed by Canaanites people.As Abraham is the good guy the author isn?t going to say something about him that would make him look bad. However, the author only has his moral compass to decide what is good/bad. We all have different views of God, life etc and through a lot of bloodshed we have come to the conclusion that secularism is the only way for all of us to live together in peace. Abraham is not willing to make such a compromise.
Perhaps he did..
The secular judgement of Abraham's crime is that he was found guilty of destroying other people's property. He need to pay reparation damage to other people property's being destroyed.Abraham had every right to share his views about God, but he had no right threaten his community. 2157. His father threatened him with punishment but never carried it out, until Abraham crossed a line.
Believe and opinion is not a crime.
It is Abraham's right to not believe in whatever belief that his society is believing in.
And it's in other people's right to believe in whatever idol that they wanted...We are a bit more civil these days, so thankfully no stoning or fire for me. But you could ban me, or report me to authorities if I hacked FM. Now if my Quran made you out to be the bad guy, you?d be pretty upset.
Some of us are, yet there are also some of us with mindset similar to Mesopotamia 4000 years ago.
I have been a Quranist for 25 years. I'm responsible for promoting many of the apologetic interpretations. It's funny when people quote them back to me. Karma.
Indeed... what goes around shall comes around..
-
Peace Burhan.
Alow me to comment briefly , and as you are busy answering many you do not have to burden yourself answering me as well if you wish.You seem to mention good and bad in your post, have you looked critically at your definition of good and bad?
Are you sure your "good and bad" are the "good and bad" by everybody else s definition?
Do you remember ,when you said ,quote
You will come across many verses like that, and there is no need to fall into dispute over the meaning of certain words.Tell Islam haters that the above verse only apply when the following conditions are met.
-
Killing a human being without self defence or justice is considered like killing all humanity (532).
-
Believers can only fight for self defence; no wars of aggression. No, pre-emptive strike based on speculations and lies (608-9).
-
The Quran gives permission to believers to fight against aggressors only (2239-40...).
A muslim is asked to follow to quran in complete not verse by verse.
And this,quoteIt's funny that 19ers and freeminders and proggies are names one group gives another one. The are not names we give ourselves. Also they are based simply on what forum one vists. Am I 19er if I get involved in a discussion or project at 19.org?
Our goal is the same - to go forward in our understanding of Islam, God and ourselves.
Why do we all have to have the same view. What's up with this totalitarian attitude. Besides our view changes. That is what we are promoting - CHANGE! A change for the better. The freedom to REFLECT and CHANGE.
As said before we are competing. And if we get airtime we let the people know who the competitors are, and they should join in and compete aswell.
If anybody asks you where you stand in relation to other groups then tell them you are in competition. Who ever stops stoning or other injustices then that competitor is ahead.
Do be an ass and say "well you know the 19ers comitt shirk blah blah, and RK was .. "
You want to label yourself, tell them you are competitor in the greatest competition of them all.
"Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-"
See you at the finishing line!
Or this,quote
I think the main idea is to compete with each other. Not for the attention of people but for a place with God.That is where we'll be united , and if you can't work together then you have already failed on the path of God alone.
The path of God alone has nothing to with Quran, 19 or anything else we endlessly debate about. Other creations follow the path without any of these things.
It is about absolute faith in God's widsom and his complete control over all things. It's about justice and doing what is right.
Don't let the forces of Satan know that you are divided, they will rip you apart and you'll only have yourselves to blame.
Debate among yourseleves by all means, but don't turn the debates in to divisions.
I think merging all forums into one is a good starting point.
etc...
Surely if you remember, you should also put yourself as you are now, in the shoes of some members here. May be in few years some of them will take your direction. Or in few years you will take another direction or even revert back to your old direction...?
Me, I agree with you on the last quote. We should race each other on good conduct and good morals( The ones that we all know by instinct).
Also for me, Qoran s main message is this basic and most important trait, taken as a whole of course.
GOD bless you.
Peace, -
-
Many years ago, I tried to prove God exists, but I could not prove it or I was not convinced.
When I tried to prove that God does not exist, I came to believe there was and is a God, it can only be one.Many years passed, I tried to prove that the Quran is from God, but I could not and still cannot.
If there is a cancer curing medicine, and if you want me to prove it can cure cancer, I can only do so by giving it to a cancer patient and seeing the improvement. If you want me to prove the effectiveness of the medicine without testing it on patient, but only based on chemical formula, you need to be very highly skilled and very knowledgeable biochemist to understand it. Testing the medicine on a number of cancer patients may not convince you of its effectiveness totally and not known side effects does not mean it does not have side effect. In a similar way, it is impossible to prove Quran, word for word, totally and without any doubt, being from God. We, all humans put together, do not have sufficient knowledge to prove it. To prove it, you need an evidence to every single statement, that is an infinite number of evidences to prove it beyond doubt. But to reject it, you only need one evidence.
If one wants to convince himself of Quran being from God, he could follow Quran to test it and live by it. Still there is no end to the testing. More positive evidences do not mean there is no negative ones, and hearts will not contend and doubts will remain. So one can try to find just one evidence to refute it, or even better try to a write a book or chapter similar to it. Most hearts will accept with peace when it fails to find even one single evidence to reject something. So you can ask your friend to prove that the Quran is not from God.
One does not need to prove every word of Quran is true and from God. One only needs to know there is one God, and live a righteous life. One finds himself turning evil when he always try to be the best person among. Debating on every single verse of Quran, wanting to be the best interpreter or holder of truth may lead a person astray too. If you believed you have seen or understood or exposed to an open evidence of God and thought there will never be any doubt in your faith, think again, Satan believes in God beyond doubt, and was in much better place than anyone of us here.
-
Divides? I am sorry but how exactly does he divide the community when that community had a history bad misdeeds. Plus he doesn't force you, i never seen a verse saying that the prophet must cause a inner community conflict.
A prophet demands that people believe in him. Those who don't believe in him are called disbelievers. Now you have two groups.
Non-believers are evil, sick, enemies of God etc, simply for not believing the prophet. Even if they do good things they will still go to hell. 572, 385 etc.
This type of language is hateful and dangerous, sadly it has made come back in politics and you can see the affects.
Don't you ever wonder why Quran needs to use such hateful language. Is God so tiny and vain that he needs to insult his own creation.
Swap the word disbeliever in Quran with quranist and see how you feel.
Remember Rashad Khalifia, he demanded that people believe in him and Code 19. Those of us who didn't believe what were they called?
Ingrates, blind, ungrateful etc ... for what crime? All the hate that his followers like Edip used to spout was directly from the Quran.
What about you? Do you think Sunni or Shia will go to heaven?
-
Non-believers are evil, sick, enemies of God etc, simply for not believing the prophet. Even if they do good things they will still go to hell. 572, 385 etc.
This type of language is hateful and dangerous, sadly it has made come back in politics and you can see the affects.
Don't you ever wonder why Quran needs to use such hateful language. Is God so tiny and vain that he needs to insult his own creation.
Salam/Peace burhan. I happen to check the verses you shown but i happen also to check the verses before and after, here is what i found
369
Waddat ta-ifatun min ahli alkitabilaw yudilloonakum wama yudilloona illaanfusahum wama yashAAuroona
A group from the people of the Book wished that they could misguide you, but they only misguide themselves and they do not notice.370
Ya ahla alkitabi limatakfuroona bi-ayati Allahi waantumtashhadoona
"O people of the Book, why do you reject the revelations of God while you are bearing witness?"371
Ya ahla alkitabi limatalbisoona alhaqqa bialbatili wataktumoonaalhaqqa waantum taAAlamoona
"O people of the Book, why do you confound the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know?"372
Waqalat ta-ifatun min ahlialkitabi aminoo biallathee onzilaAAala allatheena amanoo wajha alnnahariwaokfuroo akhirahu laAAallahum yarjiAAoona
And a group from among the people of the Book said "Believe in what was sent down to those who believe during the beginning of the day, and reject it by the end of it, perhaps they will return."373
Wala tu/minoo illa limantabiAAa deenakum qul inna alhuda huda Allahian yu/ta ahadun mithla ma ooteetum aw yuhajjookumAAinda rabbikum qul inna alfadla biyadi Allahiyu/teehi man yashao waAllahu wasiAAunAAaleemun
"And do not believe except in he who follows your system." Say "The guidance is the guidance of God." That anyone should be given similar to what you have been given, or that they debate with you at your Lord. Say "The bounty is in the hand of God, He gives it to whom He chooses, and God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable."374
Yakhtassu birahmatihi man yashaowaAllahu thoo alfadli alAAatheemi
He singles out with His mercy whom He chooses, and God is with Great Bounty.375
Wamin ahli alkitabi man in ta/manhubiqintarin yu-addihi ilayka waminhum man in ta/manhubideenarin la yu-addihi ilayka illa madumta AAalayhi qa-iman thalika bi-annahum qaloolaysa AAalayna fee al-ommiyyeena sabeelun wayaqooloonaAAala Allahi alkathiba wahum yaAAlamoona
And from among the people of the Book are those whom if you entrust him with a large amount he gives it back to you, and there are those whom if you entrust with one gold coin he will not return it to you unless you are standing over him. That is because they said "We have no obligation towards the Gentiles." They say about God lies while they know.376
Bala man awfa biAAahdihi waittaqafa-inna Allaha yuhibbu almuttaqeena
Indeed, anyone who fulfils his pledge and is righteous, then God loves the righteous.377
Inna allatheena yashtaroona biAAahdiAllahi waaymanihim thamanan qaleelan ola-ikala khalaqa lahum fee al-akhirati walayukallimuhumu Allahu wala yanthuruilayhim yawma alqiyamati wala yuzakkeehim walahumAAathabun aleemun
The ones who purchase with the pledge of God and their oaths a cheap price, those will have no portion in the Hereafter, and God will not speak to them, nor will He look at them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they will have a painful retribution.378
Wa-inna minhum lafareeqan yalwoonaalsinatahum bialkitabi litahsaboohu minaalkitabi wama huwa mina alkitabiwayaqooloona huwa min AAindi Allahi wama huwa minAAindi Allahi wayaqooloona AAala Allahi alkathibawahum yaAAlamoona
And from among them is a group who twist their tongues with the Book so that you may think it is from the Book, while it is not from the Book, and they say it is from God while it is not from God, and they say about God lies while they know.379
Ma kana libasharin anyu/tiyahu Allahu alkitaba waalhukmawaalnnubuwwata thumma yaqoola lilnnasikoonoo AAibadan lee min dooni Allahi walakinkoonoo rabbaniyyeena bima kuntum tuAAallimoonaalkitaba wabima kuntum tadrusoona
It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than God!" Rather "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied."380
Wala ya/murakum an tattakhithooalmala-ikata waalnnabiyyeena arbabanaya/murukum bialkufri baAAda ith antum muslimoona
Nor does He order you that you take the controllers and the prophets as patrons. Would He order you to rejection after you have submitted?381
Wa-ith akhatha Allahumeethaqa alnnabiyyeena lama ataytukummin kitabin wahikmatin thumma jaakumrasoolun musaddiqun lima maAAakum latu/minunna bihiwalatansurunnahu qala aaqrartum waakhathtumAAala thalikum isree qaloo aqrarnaqala faishhadoo waana maAAakum mina alshshahideena
And God took a covenant from the prophets "For what I have given you of the Book and wisdom, then a messenger will come to you authenticating what is with you. You will believe in him and support him." He said "Do you testify, and agree to this burden?" They said "We testify." He said "Then bear witness, and I am with you bearing witness."382
Faman tawalla baAAda thalikafaola-ika humu alfasiqoona
Whoever turns away after that, then they are the wicked.383
Afaghayra deeni Allahi yabghoonawalahu aslama man fee alssamawati waal-arditawAAan wakarhan wa-ilayhi yurjaAAoona
Is it other than the system of God that they desire, when those in the heavens and the earth have submitted to Him voluntarily or by force? And to Him they will be returned.384
Qul amanna biAllahiwama onzila AAalayna wama onzila AAalaibraheema wa-ismaAAeela wa-ishaqawayaAAqooba waal-asbati wama ootiya moosawaAAeesa waalnnabiyyoona min rabbihim lanufarriqu bayna ahadin minhum wanahnu lahumuslimoona
Say "We believe in God and what was sent down to us and what was sent down to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Patriarchs, and what was given to Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We do not make a distinction between any of them, and to Him we submit."385
Waman yabtaghi ghayra al-islamideenan falan yuqbala minhu wahuwa fee al-akhirati minaalkhasireena
And whoever follows other than peacemaking as a system, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers.386
Kayfa yahdee Allahu qawman kafaroobaAAda eemanihim washahidoo anna alrrasoola haqqunwajaahumu albayyinatu waAllahu layahdee alqawma alththalimeena
How can God guide a people who have rejected after believing, and they had witnessed that the messenger was true, and the clarity had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.387
Ola-ika jazaohum annaAAalayhim laAAnata Allahi waalmala-ikati waalnnasiajmaAAeena
To these the punishment will be that the curse of God will be upon them and that of the angels and the people all together!388
Khalideena feeha layukhaffafu AAanhumu alAAathabu wala hum yuntharoona
Abiding therein, the retribution will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.389
Illa allatheena taboomin baAAdi thalika waaslahoo fa-inna Allahaghafoorun raheemun
Except those who repent after this and make amends, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.390
Inna allatheena kafaroo baAAda eemanihimthumma izdadoo kufran lan tuqbala tawbatuhum waola-ikahumu alddalloona
Those who have rejected after their belief, then increased in rejection, their repentance will not be accepted, they are the strayers.Now 572, the verses before and after
551
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattakhithoo alyahooda waalnnasaraawliyaa baAAduhum awliyao baAAdinwaman yatawallahum minkum fa-innahu minhum inna Allaha layahdee alqawma alththalimeena
O you who believe, do not take the Jews and the Nazarenes as allies, for they are allies to one another; and whoever takes them as such from among you is one of them. God does not guide the wicked people.552
Fatara allatheena feequloobihim maradun yusariAAoona feehim yaqooloonanakhsha an tuseebana da-iratun faAAasaAllahu an ya/tiya bialfathi aw amrin minAAindihi fayusbihoo AAala ma asarroofee anfusihim nadimeena
You will see those who have a disease in their hearts hurrying to them, saying "We are concerned that a disaster will befall us!" Perhaps God will bring a victory or a decree from Himself, then they will become regretful over what they had kept hidden within themselves.553
Wayaqoolu allatheena amanoo ahaola-iallatheena aqsamoo biAllahi jahda aymanihiminnahum lamaAAakum habitat aAAmaluhum faasbahookhasireena
And those who believe said "Were these the ones who swore oaths by God that they are with you?" Their works have collapsed, and they have become losers.554
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanooman yartadda minkum AAan deenihi fasawfa ya/tee Allahubiqawmin yuhibbuhum wayuhibboonahu athillatinAAala almu/mineena aAAizzatin AAala alkafireenayujahidoona fee sabeeli Allahi wala yakhafoonalawmata la-imin thalika fadlu Allahiyu/teehi man yashao waAllahu wasiAAunAAaleemun
O you who believe, whoever from among you turns away from His system, then God will bring a people whom He loves and they love Him; humble towards the believers, proud towards the rejecters; they strive in the cause of God and do not fear to be blamed by those who blame. This is the grace of God, He bestows it upon whom He wills; God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.555
Innama waliyyukumu Allahuwarasooluhu waallatheena amanoo allatheenayuqeemoona alssalata wayu/toona alzzakatawahum rakiAAoona
For your supporter are God and His messenger and those who believe; they hold the following closely and contribute towards purification, and they yield.556
Waman yatawalla Allaha warasoolahu waallatheenaamanoo fa-inna hizba Allahi humu alghaliboona
And whoever allies God and His messenger and those who believe; then the party of God are the ones who will be victorious.557
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattakhithoo allatheena ittakhathoodeenakum huzuwan walaAAiban mina allatheena ootoo alkitabamin qablikum waalkuffara awliyaa waittaqooAllaha in kuntum mu/mineena
O you who believe, do not take as allies those who have taken your system for mockery and play from among those who have been given the Book before you and the rejecters. And be aware of God if you are believers.
Also check 607, 3113, 3199, 55 and 569558
Wa-itha nadaytum ila alssalatiittakhathooha huzuwan walaAAiban thalikabi-annahum qawmun la yaAAqiloona
And if you call to the following closely, they take it for mockery and play. That is because they are a people who do not comprehend.559
Qul ya ahla alkitabi haltanqimoona minna illa an amanna biAllahiwama onzila ilayna wama onzila min qabluwaanna aktharakum fasiqoona
Say "O people of the Book, do you hate us simply because we believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down before?" Alas, the majority of them are wicked.560
Qul hal onabbi-okum bisharrin min thalikamathoobatan AAinda Allahi man laAAanahu Allahuwaghadiba AAalayhi wajaAAala minhumu alqiradata waalkhanazeerawaAAabada alttaghooti ola-ika sharrun makananwaadallu AAan sawa-i alssabeeli
Say "Shall I inform you of worse than this as a punishment from God? Those whom God cursed and became angry at them, and He made from them apes and pigs and servants of evil. Those have a worse place and are more astray from the right path."561
Wa-itha jaookum qaloo amannawaqad dakhaloo bialkufri wahum qad kharajoo bihi waAllahuaAAlamu bima kanoo yaktumoona
And if they come to you they say "We believe," while they had entered in with rejection and went out with the same. God is aware of what they were hiding.562
Watara katheeran minhum yusariAAoonafee al-ithmi waalAAudwani waaklihimu alssuhtalabi/sa ma kanoo yaAAmaloona
And you see many of them hasten to sin and transgression and consuming money illicitly. Miserable indeed is what they were doing.563
Lawla yanhahumu alrrabbaniyyoonawaal-ahbaru AAan qawlihimu al-ithmawaaklihimu alssuhta labi/sa ma kanooyasnaAAoona
If only the Devotees and Priests had prohibited them for speaking evil and consuming money illicitly. Miserable indeed is what they have done.564
Waqalati alyahoodu yadu Allahimaghloolatun ghullat aydeehim waluAAinoo bima qaloobal yadahu mabsootatani yunfiqu kayfa yashaowalayazeedanna katheeran minhum ma onzila ilayka minrabbika tughyanan wakufran waalqaynabaynahumu alAAadawata waalbaghdaa ilayawmi alqiyamati kullama awqadoo naran lilharbiatfaaha Allahu wayasAAawna fee al-ardifasadan waAllahu la yuhibbualmufsideena
And the Jews said "The hand of God is tied-down!" Their hands will be tied-down, and they will be cursed for what they have said. No, His hands are wide open spending as He wills. And for many of them, what has been sent down to you will increase them in rebellion and rejection; and We have cast between them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they ignite the fire of war, God puts it out; and they seek to make corruption in the land; and God does not love the corrupters.565
Walaw anna ahla alkitabi amanoowaittaqaw lakaffarna AAanhum sayyi-atihimwalaadkhalnahum jannati alnnaAAeemi
And if the people of the Book only had believed and been aware, We would have cancelled for them their sins and admitted them to gardens of bliss.566
Walaw annahum aqamoo alttawratawaal-injeela wama onzila ilayhim min rabbihimlaakaloo min fawqihim wamin tahti arjulihim minhum ommatunmuqtasidatun wakatheerun minhum saa mayaAAmaloona
And if they had upheld the Taurat and the Injeel, and what was sent down to them from their Lord, they would have been rewarded from above them and from beneath their feet. From among them is a pious nation, but most of them only do evil.567
Ya ayyuha alrrasooluballigh ma onzila ilayka min rabbika wa-in lam tafAAal famaballaghta risalatahu waAllahu yaAAsimukamina alnnasi inna Allaha la yahdeealqawma alkafireena
O messenger, deliver what was sent down to you from your Lord, and if you do not then you have not delivered His message; and God will protect you from the people. And God does not guide the rejecting people.568
Qul ya ahla alkitabi lastumAAala shay-in hatta tuqeemoo alttawratawaal-injeela wama onzila ilaykum min rabbikumwalayazeedanna katheeran minhum ma onzila ilayka minrabbika tughyanan wakufran fala ta/sa AAalaalqawmi alkafireena
Say "O people of the Book, you are not upon anything until you uphold the Torah and the Gospel and what was sent down to you from your Lord." And for many of them, what was sent down to you from your Lord will only increase them in transgression and rejection. So do not feel sorry for the rejecting people.569
Inna allatheena amanoo waallatheenahadoo waalssabi-oona waalnnasaraman amana biAllahi waalyawmi al-akhiriwaAAamila salihan fala khawfun AAalayhim walahum yahzanoona
Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.570
Laqad akhathna meethaqabanee isra-eela waarsalna ilayhim rusulan kullamajaahum rasoolun bima la tahwaanfusuhum fareeqan kaththaboo wafareeqan yaqtuloona
We have taken the covenant of the Children of Israel and We sent to them Our messengers. Every time a messenger came to them with what their souls did not desire, a group of them they would reject, and a group of them they would kill.571
Wahasiboo alla takoonafitnatun faAAamoo wasammoo thumma taba AllahuAAalayhim thumma AAamoo wasammoo katheerun minhum waAllahubaseerun bima yaAAmaloona
And they did not consider it might be a test, so they were blind and deaf. But God would have accepted the repentance from them; but many of them were still blind and deaf. God is Seer over what they do.572
Laqad kafara allatheena qalooinna Allaha huwa almaseehu ibnu maryama waqalaalmaseehu ya banee isra-eela oAAbudoo Allaharabbee warabbakum innahu man yushrik biAllahi faqadharrama Allahu AAalayhi aljannata wama/wahualnnaru wama lilththalimeenamin ansarin
Rejecters indeed are those who have said "God is the Messiah, son of Mary." And the Messiah said "O Children of Israel, serve God, my Lord and your Lord. Whoever sets up partners with God, then God will restrict the Paradise from him, and his destiny will be the Fire; and the wicked will have no supporters."573
Laqad kafara allatheena qalooinna Allaha thalithu thalathatin wamamin ilahin illa ilahun wahidun wa-inlam yantahoo AAamma yaqooloona layamassanna allatheenakafaroo minhum AAathabun aleemun
Rejecters indeed are those who have said "God is a trinity!" There is no god except One god. If they do not cease from what they are saying, then those who reject from among them will be afflicted with a painful retribution.574
Afala yatooboona ila Allahiwayastaghfiroonahu waAllahu ghafoorun raheemun
Would they not repent to God and seek His forgiveness? God is Forgiving, Merciful.575
Ma almaseehu ibnu maryama illarasoolun qad khalat min qablihi alrrusulu waommuhu siddeeqatunkana ya/kulani alttaAAamaonthur kayfa nubayyinu lahumu al-ayatithumma onthur anna yu/fakoona
The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger; like whom messengers have passed away; and his mother was trustworthy, they used to eat the food. See how We clarify the signs for them, then see how they deviate.576
Qul ataAAbudoona min dooni Allahi mala yamliku lakum darran wala nafAAan waAllahuhuwa alssameeAAu alAAaleemu
Say "Do you serve other than God what cannot harm you or benefit you?" God is the Hearer, the Knower.577
Qul ya ahla alkitabi lataghloo fee deenikum ghayra alhaqqi wala tattabiAAooahwaa qawmin qad dalloo min qablu waadallookatheeran wadalloo AAan sawa-i alssabeeli
Say "O people of the Book, do not overstep in your system other than the truth, and do not follow the desires of a people who have been misguided before, and they misguide many; and they strayed from the right path."578
LuAAina allatheena kafaroo min baneeisra-eela AAala lisani dawoodawaAAeesa ibni maryama thalika bima AAasawwakanoo yaAAtadoona
Cursed are those who have rejected from among the Children of Israel by the tongue of David and Jesus, son of Mary. That is for what they have disobeyed, and for what they transgressed.579
Kanoo la yatanahawnaAAan munkarin faAAaloohu labi/sa ma kanooyafAAaloona
They would not stop each other from doing vice. Wickedness is what they used to do.580
Tara katheeran minhum yatawallawnaallatheena kafaroo labi/sa ma qaddamat lahumanfusuhum an sakhita Allahu AAalayhim wafee alAAathabihum khalidoona
You see many of them allying the rejecters. Wicked is what their souls have provided for them, for the wrath of God is upon them, and in the retribution they will abide.581
Walaw kanoo yu/minoona biAllahiwaalnnabiyyi wama onzila ilayhi ma ittakhathoohumawliyaa walakinna katheeran minhum fasiqoona
And if they had believed in God and the prophet, and what was sent down to him, then they would not have taken them as allies; but many of them are wicked.582
Latajidanna ashadda alnnasiAAadawatan lillatheena amanoo alyahooda waallatheenaashrakoo walatajidanna aqrabahum mawaddatan lillatheena amanooallatheena qaloo inna nasara thalikabi-anna minhum qisseeseena waruhbanan waannahum layastakbiroona
You will find the people with the greatest animosity towards those who believe are the Jews and those who are polytheists; and you will find the closest in affection to those who believe are those whosaid "We are Nazarenes;" that is because among them are Priests and Monks, and they are not arrogant.
Again check 607, 3113, 3199, 55 and 569583
Wa-itha samiAAoo ma onzila ilaalrrasooli tara aAAyunahum tafeedu mina alddamAAimimma AAarafoo mina alhaqqi yaqooloona rabbanaamanna faoktubna maAAa alshshahideena
And if they hear what was sent down to the messenger you see their eyes flooding with tears, for what they have known as the truth, they say "Our Lord, we believe, so record us with the witnesses."584
Wama lana la nu/minu biAllahiwama jaana mina alhaqqi wanatmaAAuan yudkhilana rabbuna maAAa alqawmi alssaliheena
"And why should we not believe in God and what has come to us of the truth? And we yearn that our Lord admits us with the righteous people."585
Faathabahumu Allahu bimaqaloo jannatin tajree min tahtihaal-anharu khalideena feeha wathalikajazao almuhsineena
So God recompensed them for what they have said with estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein; such is the recompense of the good doers.586
Waallatheena kafaroo wakaththaboobi-ayatina ola-ika as-habualjaheemi
And those who rejected and denied Our revelations; they are the dwellers of Hell.587
Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tuharrimoo tayyibati ma ahallaAllahu lakum wala taAAtadoo inna Allaha layuhibbu almuAAtadeena
O you who believe, do not make unlawful the good things that God has made lawful to you, and do not aggress; God does not love the aggressors.Hopefully this will clear thing. Salam/Peace.
-
Salam/Peace, my comments are in bold red
Don't you ever wonder why Quran needs to use such hateful language. Is God so tiny and vain that he needs to insult his own creation.
Hateful language? If you could, please do show us so we can analyze. Also people are trying to make God look tiny & vain by making lies against him.
Swap the word disbeliever in Quran with quranist and see how you feel.
That is honestly weird, what does this have to do with this topic?
Remember Rashad Khalifia, he demanded that people believe in him and Code 19. Those of us who didn't believe what were they called?
About Rashad Khalifa, he has done some things are questionable like the event when he been inappropriate towards a young woman in 1979, google Rashad Khalifa rape case and also see this videos https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwEPoKxUZwc https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F4R5K0JdmE
Ingrates, blind, ungrateful etc ... for what crime? All the hate that his followers like Edip used to spout was directly from the Quran.
I recommend check from 91 to 935 and from 2185 to 2200, and what hate did Edip Yuksel and his followers spout out?
What about you? Do you think Sunni or Shia will go to heaven?
Honestly i do think so, if they are following God's divine laws then they are good people, i have meet some Sunni and Shia humans and they are good people.
-
people should ponder more on Allah. and then try to answer is a certain book from Allah.
Again, what/who is Allah ? and how do you define what is from Allah and what is not ? This is the most fundamental and important question.
Also, @Sardar, can you please stop flooding the thread with copy pastas ???
-
Everything is from Allah. But we should look at what God intends for every particular being. We are humans and we in our fitra know to some extent what destiny God meant for us. Revelation and exchange with others helps us finding out more about out destiny. Our destiny is not to judge God or anybody else for that matter, but to try to understand and know, starting with ourselves. We have that God given gift or being able to analyse and examine ourselves. From the moral point of view that should be our main task.
The Qur'an is not a book whereby we should learn to judge God or even others, but to judge ourselves and improve ourselves. Each one her or himself. It is also the most noble and enthralling task.
Salaam
