:: Why do you believe that alQuraan is sent down from Allah? ::
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Which human authored Qoran? Evidence?
Pointless, since in the light of a lack of original manuscript we can clearly observe the practice of over-scribing the text over a period of time during the reign of different rulers and in different periods. We even lack a single old manuscript which would contain all of the 114 remaining chapters, which the tradition (not the book, by the way) claims to preserve. Both Birmingham and Saan'a copies are incomplete compared to the traditional version. So your question lacks any point, a wider question would be to ask who was the last to overwrite and alter it and to which extent. That's how you produce a bigger picture and expand your knowledge outside of a typical belief system.
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Peace Makaveli.
I am talking about the Qoran we have now. The contents that have reached us so far.
When one says the scribes of such and such of the past is irrelevant.
Who has claimed authorship for the mushaf/s we have now?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
When one says the scribes of such and such of the past is irrelevant.
Who has claimed authorship for the mushaf/s we have now?Yes it is relevant, claiming otherwise is a reliance on a system of faith instead of common sense. The question who authored a first Quran is irrelevant as long as the alteration problem is not solved, because that's another factor in the chain of other factors which prevent us from understanding its origin. Alteration of the text has been done for ages in any religion, Quran is no exception. Claiming otherwise is like claiming you will be caught by the angels instead of falling off the bridge. You will fall regardless of what your belief system tells you.
Who has claimed authorship for the mushaf/s we have now?
Umaric tradition.
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A spanish saying goes No hay mal que por bien no venga.
There is no evil that does not come to bring good.I imagine in every language there is something similar.
I heard a similar line Maybe something good is hidden under the bad that happened.
So I do thank God for people having idolized Qur'an. Why? The Qur'an has been hidden under the interpretrations that purport to tell us what the Qur'an means. It is as if a blanket with a new Qur'an had been trown over the real Qur'an and impersonated it. Bu the real Qur'an underneath has not been touched, because it has een idolized. Had it not been so, the Qur'an itself would have been rewritten and what we would have today would be a twin to the Bible or the hadith. That idolization has prevented it becomin so.
Although I agree with you, his use of words "idolizing the Quran" is quite a poor attempt at dismissing other people's belief as absurd especially on this forum. It is dedicated mainly to Quran. So obviously, we focus more on that. This is no idol worship.
He is literally over simplifying the meaning of idolizing. You can just plug it into any other areas of life and get the same result. It is like if a student spends time studying medicine, goes to use it in his field and discusses its contents with his colleague then by using Jafar's logic, we find that the person is idolizing medicine.
So for us people, the choice remains possible, SEE the Qur'an the real one or accept the impersonations.
Criticism of the contents is more of a common sense approach. It doesn't make sense to be angry at a BOOK. Just reminds me of this
"I'm so angry at my, idiotic barber!
Think I'll stay in here 'till, it grows out a little!
Got a lousy Haircut! A really stupid haircut!
What a silly haircut! I can't believe this haircut!"https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNbx6iF-vQINow
"I'm so angry at this, idiotic God!
Think I'll stay in here 'till, this book grows out a little!
Got a lousy book! A really stupid book!
What a silly book! I can't believe this book!We do have the choice. Thsoe who accept the impersonations because that allows them demean the real Qur'an, will have what they want. They want garbage, they will have garbage. Those who want the real Qur'an, God, willing will be able to find peace and not suffer more than necessay because always they will have the assurance that even if the whole world disagrees, they agree with themselves and their hearts are contented.
Those are some great words.
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Peace Makaveli.
So you have not checked the "interlock" system of Qoran?As far as my checking goes ,I believe we have the original Qoran, with an interlock system of letters, words, verses and surahs. Impossible to imitate, alter ,add to or take away from.
But of course that is my checking of its numbering patterns and locks, no faith required anymore .
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
So you have not checked the "interlock" system of Qoran?
As far as my checking goes ,I believe we have the original Qoran, with an interlock system of letters, words, verses and surahs. Impossible to imitate, alter ,add to or take away from.
Peace good logic,
Recently I came across almost about 22 different versions of alQuraan. Don't be emotional bro, just think about it.
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Peace mmkhan.
Nice to hear from you brother.
22 versions? There may be many ,but GOD Anzala only one.And we do not even need to think, just count the letters/numbers of surahs, verses, words...etc
But thinking is required for understanding the message once we know for sure/are certain GOD has sent a message.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
So you have not checked the "interlock" system of Qoran?
peace, you are asking to check something without telling how.
show how interlock or whatever works explain which is correct?https//www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/pharaohs_magicians_detailed.html
In the following, we present another example of parallel accounts containing major verbal variations
258 and when qul'n/said we of
- ud'khul/enters ye of this the town
- fakul/so eat ye of therein anyplace like you freely
7161 and when qla/stated to them
- us'kun/settles ye of this the town
- wakul/and eat ye of therein anyplace like you
There is more above although want to keep simple and verified old manuscripts.
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/2/vers/58?handschrift=163
see translation link https//s15.postimg.cc/5ky2gd6sb/ch2v55-62.jpghttps//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/7/vers/161/handschrift/163
see translation link https//s15.postimg.cc/7o8ho3jgr/ch7v157-163.jpg -
Peace Noon.
So you believe Qoran is not from GOD and has contradictions?
I do not get your post.
To me ,your post applies to you since you have no proof of what is original Qoran?
You need to sort out your "old manuscripts".
I have already said to you ,for me ,the hafs version we have today is the original Qoran according to my checking of its numerical composition.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Peace Noon.
So you believe Qoran is not from GOD and has contradictions?
I do not get your post.
To me ,your post applies to you since you have no proof of what is original Qoran?
You need to sort out your "old manuscripts".
I have already said to you ,for me ,the hafs version we have today is the original Qoran according to my checking of its numerical composition.
GOD bless you.
PeaceI don't think he mentioned anything that Qur'an is not from God. Brother Noon made a topic on this "Hafs & Warsh" of The Qur'an
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610132.msg414793#msg414793
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Yes brother The Sardar.
That was a question not an assumption . It is related to the article he included..
Also which version of Qoran was sent down originally? Evidence?
This is the most important question.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
You need to sort out your "old manuscripts".
I have already said to you ,for me ,the hafs version we have today is the original Qoran according to my checking of its numerical composition.peace, wording is consistent in old and new manuscripts?
258 and when qul'n/said we of
- ud'khul/enters ye of this the town
- fakul/so eat ye of therein anyplace like you freely
7161 and when qla/stated to them
- us'kun/settles ye of this the town
- wakul/and eat ye of therein anyplace like you
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Peace Noon.
How do you measure the consistency/inconsistency/difference?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
How do you measure the consistency/inconsistency/difference?
peace good logic, cannot resolve above by measuring/counting anything rather by careful study!
482 do so not they reflecting the qur?an/recitation and in case be from near/with other than the god surely found they of in it ikhtilafan/divergences of (single occurrence) kathiran/much of (3+)
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Peace Noon.
Mathematics is a Scientifically consistent and accurate way to measure the text . There is only one way this measure works.
While studying the text helps the understanding of it. It cannot measure its accuracy consistently.
Just like the understanding will differ, the inconstancy and difference will remain .
I know some argue the numerical measure and dispute the numbers, but they cannot argue against the measure itself being universal. The language of Mathematics is unified and universal.
Let me give you a clear example
Say a person is called ALIA (1 9 12 1 being the numerical arrangement of the alphabet) I have measured the spelling numerically to make sure everyone spells it correctly. If anyone spells it ALYAH, then they have ignored the code and misspelt the word ALIA .
Similarly if a sentence contains the word ALIA and someone wrote AMANDA , we can clearly tell by the maths code that the word has been changed all together not just misspelled.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Sorry ALIA (I 12 9 1) correction of (1 9 12 1) of the last post which makes it AILA!)
GOD bless. -
Peace mmkhan.
Nice to hear from you brother.
22 versions? There may be many ,but GOD Anzala only one.Peace brother good logic,
Thanks dear brother.
Red I agree with you.
Blue Any evidence bro?And we do not even need to think, just count the letters/numbers of surahs, verses, words...etc
But thinking is required for understanding the message once we know for sure/are certain GOD has sent a message.
GOD bless you.
Peace.So you mean alQuraan is only for those who are able to count in millions and not for a lay man who don't know much counting?
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peace good logic, instead of speaking about math in general use code or whatever to resolve?
258 and when qul'n/said we of
- ud'khul/enters ye of this the town
- fakul/so eat ye of therein anyplace like you freely
7161 and when qla/stated to them
- us'kun/settles ye of this the town
- wakul/and eat ye of therein anyplace like you
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Peace Noon.
What do you want to resolve with 258 and 7161?
Do you expect them to have the same words?
In context and in general speech they mean the same thing . They are two different verses in two different surahs.
2;58 has "Udkhulu " and 7161 has "Uskunu".
Whether they are told "enter this town" or "go and live in this town" is this what you have a problem with?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
