The mithaq ghaliTH
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4.21
And how could ye take it when ye have gone in unto each other, and they have Taken from you a solemn covenant? (21)
What is this mithaq ghalith (translated by Yusuf Ali as solemn covenant). Was it a paper signed with ink? Was it some words with people present with the glorious title of witnesses?
Or was the pone signed in the intimacy not with ink but with God's given source of life?
Marriage is not sacred, sex is sacred, and when people have learnt to treat sex as a pastime, they invented marriage, and in orde that no innocents pay the cost of the desecration of sex, Godpoints to some safeguards for the mithaq ghalith to be protected. But the mithaq ghalith is sex, not any paper or any oath.
What oath more powerful that that mithaq ghalith of aya 4.20?
Since people have learnt to shit on mithaq ghalith, they had to invent something else to let them cary on with the sham, but God still knows.
We do nto cheat Him but we seem to think that we do.
We are so laughable!
Salaam
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So what I understand from your words is that marriage institution is like some sort of fencing around the act of sex ?
We are taught not to look upon women with desires, and therefore not desiring sex from them. What kind of thought should initiate a marriage bond then, if the whole marriage was just a wrapper around the act of sex ? Maybe the thought of starting a family ?
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So what I understand from your words is that marriage institution is like some sort of fencing around the act of sex ?
We are taught not to look upon women with desires, and therefore not desiring sex from them. What kind of thought should initiate a marriage bond then, if the whole marriage was just a wrapper around the act of sex ? Maybe the thought of starting a family ?
So what do you think marriage is?
Salaam
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I'm not sure just yet. I was hoping you could clear out some of those questions.
What is the underlying philosophy of sex being the foundation of marriage and everything that it entails. (the one spouse, the life-long aspect, the whole sacred thing etc etc)
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I am all for what the Qur'an says, I have given some ayas, I do not know whethe in this thread or in others.
The thing is that we autmatically think that the Qur'an fits in with what our background ideas are. Many times w are not even aware that we have those background ideas.
So we should make an effort to empty our minds of any preconceived ideas and just look at the Qur'an.
The fencing part about sex, I really have no idea what you are talking about.
God could have made us reproduce with sporas like mushrooms. However we reproduce the way we do, and God says, again, I will quote it once more
30.21
And of His signs is that He created for you, of yourselves, spouses, that you might repose in them, and He has set between you love and mercy. Surely in that are signs for a people who consider. (21)
God says that creaion, the way he has created as partners is a sin, a sign of what? You have to read and think.
I am alarmed that some people here seem to speak about sex as it was some kind of liability or bad burden for us. Is that what God's sign (aya) is.
God is very merciful with humans but then humans think that sex they can manage without God. But it is God's sign.
You have to find out for yourself. But it is bad, very bad, when we see as a problem or a burden or filth something that God gives us as a gift and a sign. That means that we have travelled very far from His mercy and very far from thankfulness.
Salaam
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Why do you keep criticizing me for what I haven't said yet, I'm asking you questions about what YOU said. I don't care if it is a verse of the quran, it can be translated in 200 different nuances and can be interpreted in 2000 ways.
I'm asking you for the reasoning that makes you think that, and that we can both reason about.
This question seems legit to me
We are taught not to look upon women with desires, and therefore not desiring sex from them. What kind of thought should initiate a marriage bond then, if the whole marriage was just a wrapper around the act of sex ?
And if you're single, of course sex is a heavy weight/burden on your shoulders. What do you do, according to you ?
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I don't get what your question is exactly. or if it is just one question or several, or about what it exactly is.
And I have not criticised YOU. I do not know you. The criticism I put in my posts is general, at least that is the way a mean it. If you take it personally I do not wonder that you do not understand what i am saying.
Salaam
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Peace Cerburus.
I believe huruf is talking from Qoran s point of view and if I understand her correctly there are two things
1-Qoran implies either find a partner (Marriage) or do not have sex. Sex with anyone that you do not intend to marry is Zina. When you court/get engaged with a partner Your intention should be to stay with them(Marry them) before you go into each other intimately(have sex). If you just want sex without responsibility/commitment you are not following Qoran. Sex and marriage are one item. Any other sex is Zina.
2- Other than Qoran loads of choices desires, ways and free will entitles them to their choices.Ceremonies/witnesses may be adverts for others in society to know about you and your partner. As far as Qoran is concerned, the real oath/commitment/marriage is between the two partners and their intentions.
That is how I understand what huruf is saying. I may be wrong.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Thank yu good logic.
To some extent, yes, it may be that what I am getting at. But I think I am going further.
Why ar ewe so negative about sex, why do we have ingrained a certain christian masochist morals based on guilt an not on thankfulness and joy gor God's gift. Is it all tht we see in sex problems, filth, division, like in between good women and bad women, or any other division. Why aren't we grateful. As I said either in this thread or another, God could have made us reproduce through spores, but He gave us sex and abandonment.
Is it because we insist on being the owners of it that we are not grateful and see it as a burden rather than as a blessed opportunity.
Funilly, for other things I am working on, I have consulted a Qur'an translation into Spanish of the Qur'an published from a copy of 1606. If we look at a passage of aya 24.33 which nowadays all translations translate as And do not force your slave girls into prostitution..." and which has come up these days in the forum, also modern Spanish tanslations say the same.
But this older Spanish translation of the Qur'an not yet touched
by "Western" modernity, does not say that, it says
And do not force your female slaves to zina in order for them to become pregnant if they want yo keep chaste in the life of this world...Obviously, muslims, from the time of the revelation of the Qur'an, good or bad muslims, have kept understanding its ayas differently according to their interests and appetites, or their more decent aspirations in the best cases.
But we see how from that time to now how formidably we have progressed. In 1.606, we stuck to zina, now zina is not enough, we are modern, civilised people and we want prostitution.
Just to show how far we can get from the blessing of the Qur'an, in the 16th century peopel still thought that pregnant women were good, now we do not even want that, slaves, yes, but unknown to us, anonymous, where the result of our deeds does not burden us.
How true that french proverb which says love is like a Spanish inn, you eat there what you bring with yourself.
We do not get out of sex but things we ourselves despise because we do not aknowledge what God's gift to us is. We are not even slightly aware that it is a gift and a redeeming means. Because we ourselves do not conceive such a thing.
Enough
Salaam
