Who is Isra'iil إِسْرَائِيلَ
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Salaam
Want to add something related to Israel
Sometimes we are referring to bible without knowing that we are referring to bible because it is included in "our bios", that is the lowest level our mind architecture. It is something we learned from childhood and we never thought it can be wrong.
Example. Daoud and Soleiman are known as Greatests kings of Israel.
But there is absolutely no links in Quran between daoud, soleiman and Israel or even Yahood or even torah. or even any known prophets.it is not strange ?
in my quran studies, the most difficult thing i faced is to remove such kind of beliefs even when i thought i was a quran only believer. It is really hard to remove priesthood teachings from mind even if we want.
Peace
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Right. That is what I meant when I said "unconscious".
Recently I realised that the greatest acheivement attributed to Salomon, the Temple, is nowhere in the Qur'an. That Sulayman is there allright and as an exceptional achiever and knowledgeable in sciences and things that I do not think I understand yet, or I ill never understand, but that no temple whatsoever is mentionned, not even a little brick. Surprising, right? Nowhere a temple of Sulayman. Why. Again are we in front of two different people, Sulayman and Solomon, or have we been fed a fantastic temple the same as we, from other sides, have been fed a magic carpet that flies? Of course we do not believe in those carpets, but the Temple of Solomon?
That is another reason why I have taken to reproduce all names such as appear in the Qur'an in Arabic and, as I have been able to ascertain, were reproduced in the Spanish muslim usage of earlier centuries, including proper names of persons. It si so that it is well understood that I do not atribute to thos names anything that the Qur'an does not. never mind whether other people identify them ith somebody else or not. Particularly, Maryam is Maryam, 3isa is 3isa, Yahia, Yahia...
Yes, I think that we do need a purification of the Qur'an in order to preserve it from the assumptions made in our heads as to what it says, let alone what it means. Just what it says and particularly what it does not say would be a great achievement.
I guess many muslims if they found a Qur'an without much of the bible lore they have been used to fit it with may reject the Qur'an. Too bad -for them. As the saying goes, popular wisdom "cuanto menos bulto, m?s claridad", the less bulk the more clarity.
Salaam.
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Recently I realised that the greatest acheivement attributed to Salomon, the Temple, is nowhere in the Qur'an. That Sulayman is there allright and as an exceptional achiever and knowledgeable in sciences and things that I do not think I understand yet, or I ill never understand, but that no temple whatsoever is mentionned, not even a little brick.
Some bricks
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLTtnVVVIMAIsrael is a big liar. He loves rewrite history.
Brother Pazuzu was right.
History of Yahood was in Yemen. it was from there were nabuchodonnor (bakhta nasr) exiled them to Babylon. And it was Cyrus the Great who liberated them and allowed to them to go to Palestine for the first time. Actual torah was written after. The oldest text is in greek and written in egypt after Alexander.
Seems that rabbis of Israel brought some changes and that Daoud and Suleiman have benefited of a posthumous conversion to judaism >.Peace
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Salam,
let's deep dive in the 7th century in Arabia, before Arabic grammarians existed end of 8th century, before they could invent triliteral roots, before Arabic grammar could be codified.
Then, how would the Arab audience of the Messenger hear the word "Isra'il" in Arabic ?
They would hear it as the Hebrew counterpart, of course.
And they would also hear it as an assonance composed of two words "isra" and "aal".
"Isra" means doing a travel in darkness, like in verse 171.
Aal means family, like in aal-Imran, aal-Ibrahim. It is probably a derivative of Ahl, people.So they would hear by Israel the family of those who travel in darkness.
In verse 393 we read that every food was allowed to the Bani Israel, except that Israel forbade itself.
If we except God, which entity usually arrogates itself the right to rule in God's name that something is allowed and something else is not allowed ?Priesthood of course !
So Israel in Qur'an is a nickname for priesthood, the kind of which arrogates itself the right to rule in the name of God.
Next, what means "Bani Israel" ?
Bin in Arabic means son in the sense of being nourished by the father, Ab. This nourishment can be physical or spiritual.
Another word, walad, means the son in the biological sense.Therefore the "Bani Israel" are those that are spiritually nourished by priesthood that leads them astray in darkness.
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I doubt of the ability of anyone to plunge into 7th century Arabia or into 15th century china or Alaska. We may imagine whatever we like, but we do not plunge at all. Just figure something according to our imagination and readings or films of any kind or quality that we may have come accros.
Better keep as much as possible to the written word and honest intellect, and proceed only as we can foundedly proceed on that ground which is certain and at hand. Finally we are not pronnoucing ourselves ont he values or lack of them of any place or people on such and such a time, but on the value of a book that we do have as is, now, in our hands.
Salaam
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Peace All.
So who are these Beni-Israeel?
1- 240
GOD made a covenant with them.
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Chosen people?
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They are Moses Quawm-People"
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Here in the above verse GOD took the covenant with them.
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GOD is still addressing Beni Israeel here sending Moses and Jesus to them.
6-These must have been the people living with Moses and Aaron in Misr?
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Peace All.
So who are these Beni-Israeel?
1- 240
GOD made a covenant with them.
2-
Chosen people?
3-
They are Moses Quawm-People"
4 -
Here in the above verse GOD took the covenant with them.
5-
GOD is still addressing Beni Israeel here sending Moses and Jesus to them.
6-These must have been the people living with Moses and Aaron in Misr?
GOD bless.
Peace.O notice that it says Musa's people, but it does not say that those are bani israiil.
On the other hand, that somebody ar bani israiil, that is inheritors of the those ho travelled by night does not mean that there are ony one bani israaiil, that is open, same as i ahle al kitaab who is not ahlu ul kitaab?
There ar emany peoole favored 3ala el 3alamin, everyone, in fact, in some aspect every people is favoured 3ala al alamin. But God blames those bani insraail that have forgotten God's ffavour on the and are ungrateful, that is what is telling them. Other people may be have not forgotten, that they have bben favoured 3ala eal 3alamin. Every people is a chosen people that is why they are a people. to understand chosen or favoured as being superior or over others is to take God as a servant for their vanities. I know, as a people that I am favoured, i knwo that and I appreciate that. It would be sheer folly on my part to think that other people are not chosen and favoured with something else, something different from mine, but something that is their gift. That is why everybody enjoys travelling and meeting people from different places and knowing from far away lands and all that.
The point is that in order to know who are israail, it is as simple as saying who are the early risers. That you have in mind certain early risers, is not forbidding that early rises are evidently all those hwo rise early any time anywhere. The name says it all, we do not need to study 10.000 years of human history to find out who were or are the ealy risers. Some of them may have encountered more difficult to rise early in winter in northern siberia or whatever, but that doe snot change te meaning of early risers.
Lut's people are israaiil, they left in the night before sunrise and went away from their town. Any descendant of Lut's people, in a physical way would be bani israiil , and spiritually all peoples in the world are bani israiil.
And in fact 3isa ibnu Maryam came to revive all bani israiil anywhere, where his message could be understood. That is their second opportunity. Those who have failed in getting it right the first time they receive the message, have another opportunity following 3isa ibnu Maryam. The can revive again speiritually, cure their blindness and their impurity, through the ruh that was breathed into Maryam and that 3isa blows into the birds he shapes with God's permission.
Salaam
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I doubt of the ability of anyone to plunge into 7th century Arabia or into 15th century china or Alaska. We may imagine whatever we like, but we do not plunge at all. Just figure something according to our imagination and readings or films of any kind or quality that we may have come accros.
We do this when we do history, and history is a science, not imagination.
Better keep as much as possible to the written word and honest intellect, and proceed only as we can foundedly proceed on that ground which is certain and at hand. Finally we are not pronnoucing ourselves ont he values or lack of them of any place or people on such and such a time, but on the value of a book that we do have as is, now, in our hands.
Salaam
I disagree here. The text we call Qur'an was primarily addressed to a specific audience in the 7th CE in their tongue and their social and cultural background (cf. verse 144), for a specific purpose.
It is not targeted at us, at first hand, at least not at me. Otherwise it would have been revealed in French (or in English) and using cultural references that are accessible to me, living in 21st CE.
It doesn't prevent us, living in 21st CE, to extract some wisdom from it, of course. But we must first understand what it meant in the 7st CE Arabia, then by delta from this epoch and place, we can understand which wisdom we can extract for us.Otherwise we are hitting misinterpretation, and misinterpretation leads to spread corruption on earth in the end.
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The Qur'an it says itself many times is addressed to a people who ponder, o reflect, who think, who use their minds, able to understand.
If that is nto you it is your business, but obviously you cannot ptetend that other people do not understand that it is addressed to anybody who considers that it is for them.
Addressing the french? In what is different people from people. Human kind changes but not so much and not in the essential. And obviously anything that speaks about daily life and common events has to be set in something , so keep it simple. you have to choose one unless you want an enciclopedia of millions of volumes. These things are obvious. The Qur'an is not concenred whether you use forks or you don't but on behaviour and behaviour,a s said is not different, in fact we do understand too well what the Qur'an is talking about.
Salaam
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Peace huruf.
I am only going by the subject of 240 onwards. It addresses Beni Israeel. They were Moses people at that time.
Otherwise who are these people of Moses that crossed the sea and dealt with Moses as their leader throughout the verses?If you say "O notice that it says Musa's people, but it does not say that those are bani israiil."
To me the verses after it is calling them Moses people it addresses them again as "Ya Beni Israeel".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Oh they can be banu 'israiil all right, but they are not the onl banu israaill, they are the banu israail, of that episode. It is like who is the murderer en an episode or one of the murderers. But the thing is from the point of view that they are spokin of, they are not may be from hte point of vie of being musa's people or descendants of so and so, but as banu israail, those who are succeding some people who started a night journey and that now are lost in the night.
That is at least hat I get from the whole thing.
Salaam
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Salaam, good logic,
I am going to take advantage of your patience once more.
Do you recall anywhere in the narration of Musa and his people that they did leave in the night. I have the impression that no particula hour or time is metionned, but I do not want to overlook anything.
Thank you again for your patience
Salaam
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Peace huruf.
I was just indicating that Moses and Aaron were asking this (from Firoun)
2617
Beni Israeel existed before this
2622
But you are right this also happened after
2652GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace All.
So who are these Beni-Israeel?
1- 240
GOD made a covenant with them.
2-
Chosen people?
3-
They are Moses Quawm-People"
4 -
Here in the above verse GOD took the covenant with them.
5-
GOD is still addressing Beni Israeel here sending Moses and Jesus to them.
6-These must have been the people living with Moses and Aaron in Misr?
GOD bless.
Peace.Salaam bro
Really i don't see any problem
banu israel represents the people misguided by israel that is priesthood.
Allah sent many messengers to this people. that is a great gift from Allah and that's why it is logical Allah describe them as preferred to other people.
it is because he choose them for the great saga of prohets (from Abraham to muhammad)other people, let says chinese, had some prophets, but it is a discontinued serie of epides and not a saga.
i think the quranic word for "saga" is taour(َ . . . . . . . .
that is step by step, period after period and not a mountain like it used to be translated.
for example, my people(qawm) is "banu israel" since they believe in oulemas. But i am no more. Allah freed me from Israel and his bullshit.
my omma is not not my qawm. Oumma is spiritually linked
Perhaps, one day, Allah will say to me "Hey noshirk, go to president of republic and ask him to arsil bani israel wih you". Or perhaps he will call them banu muslim and bukhari.
it the president accepts, il will teach what Allah teached to me purified from priesthood bullshit. Since i will be rassool, it is logical to say "arsil bani israel with me".
but i don't think he will accepet. he will says "i am who decide who is teached or not in my country" which is equivalent to " i am your greatest rabb".Banu israel are neither good or bad people. i have many banu israel in my family. They beliveve in hadiths bukhari and muslim and sira of ibn hicham.
israel is a bad guy/people. Israel are ribbiyouns eating riba to do rabb in place of the true rabbarsil doesnt mean let me travel with them to another country. A serious study of quran shows that the land inherited by the followers of Musa is land of Firaoun.
it is an israel teachning who says that people moussa were allowed by Allah to attack other countries and take their land.There is something you have to always remember. There is only one deen. Judaism, and christianism don't exist for Allah. Judaism, christianism, and actual islam are sects of what Allah call islam. So there is no reason that "banu israel" concept is limited to judaism or people of Moses.
Peace
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Peace noshirk.
there are plenty of theories, history for exampleThe Bene Israel, formerly known in India as the "Shanivar Teli" caste and later as the "Native Jew Caste", are a historic community of Jews in India. It has been suggested that it is made up of descendants of one of the disputed Lost Tribes and ancestors who had settled there centuries ago. In the 19th century, after the people were taught about normative Judaism, they tended to migrate from villages in the Konkan area to the nearby cities, primarily Mumbai, but also to Pune, Ahmedabad, and Kolkata, India; and Karachi, in today's Pakistan. Many gained positions with the British colonial authority of the period.
Or
https//www.benisrael.org/
Or
Some verses of Quran use the word (Jews), while other use (Children of Israeel). Apparently they seem to be pointing to the same group of people. But God does not do say anything without a purpose and indeed they should be some difference.
So what are the differences between these two group of people?
There are many verses that use both the terms. And they can be found in Qoran.
etc....
For me. like sister huruf I take what Qoran says.
But the main task from Qoran from what I can make out is to lead my life according to the instruction of Qoran. To do my best to follow the best advice from Qoran.
Things like who are beni Israeel? who has done what?...Are not my priority although I do not mind others searching and looking. I read with an open mind
I was quoting verses from Qoran, others can make of them what they want.
Thank you for your posts.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
How can we say that other people have not been favoured with prophets? What do we know about 99,99% of traditions are cultures that are not the homologised judeo-christian cum islamic and a little of indian-budist lore?
We do not know a damned thing and we affirm they have this or the have it not. We do not even know our on ancestors before christianity or greco-roman lore did away with all religious traditions in Europe and other places before them.
I have studied a little of aztecs and they indeed had prophets and they indeed had a religion which was completely sure of peoples ties with God to a depth as I have not seen anywhere else.And we speak of a chosen people? All people are chosen. That tribe has so many prophets, very likely because they needed them and any other triby that should need God would give, because God is merciful beyond our imagination. And do we know that no tribe in the world had as many? we certainly do not know. "Judeo-Christian" culture as they call a certain mindset now poses as the all-knower and judge of everything, because hat they do not kno of,simply does not exist, it is the universal pin-roller of anything that it does not overlords. It misses a lot doing so.
Salaam
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Sister huruf.
Of course in real terms the chosen people are those that choose right from wrong and apply it in their life.
But also GOD creates what He wills and chooses. We can all do with a little or big help from GOD.
Mind you do we really have a choice? Right from wrong ?
Well even our instinct is telling us there is only one winner!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
How can we say that other people have not been favoured with prophets? What do we know about 99,99% of traditions are cultures that are not the homologised judeo-christian cum islamic and a little of indian-budist lore?
Salaam
1047 And for every nation is a messenger; so when their messenger comes, the matter is decreed between them with justice, and they are not wronged.that is not the question
the fact is that there is only one saga similar to the saga from Noah to Muhammad
the fact is that there is only one book called Quran it seems that it will be the "last book" that will dominate "other books"619 He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, so that it will expose all other systems, even if the polytheists hate it.
Seems that Allah send isolated messengers from time to time to other people.
But no as form of Saga over thousand years.
i checked the "99,99% of traditions are cultures that are not the homologised judeo-christian cum islamic and a little of indian-budist lore" and i found no such millenary saga there.i repeat.
on the footsteps of each messenger sent by Allah, grows a priesthood from the darkness sent secretly by chaytan and called Israel.
if no messenger then no israel and no banu israel.6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet ? mankind and Jinn devils ? to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
2252 And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet, without having the devil interfere with his wishes. God then duplicates what the devil has cast, and God secures His revelations. And God is Knower, Wise.
that is false "prophethood", that is "priesthood", that is Israel. Victims are banu Israel who eats their rubbish.
And like brother Pazuzu would have said, all history written by Israel is lies, lies, lies and lies...
From Jerusalem To Mecca, all is lies.
that is the job of Isra-el, sons of Ibliss.Peace