Are all the Arabic versions of the Quran is the same?
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Salam all.
I was surfing in the rashad's submission website and i found an intresting article.
http//www.submission.org/quran/warsh.htmlit is interensting that there are 2(Warsh and Hafs) versions of arabic Quran..i dont know about you guys..but this seems shocking..
Any comments on the two version of Quran..? or any info maybe?
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Salaam Aleikum Loli
Please just understand that Submission.org foundation is build on the concept that Qur'an is corrupted. Rashad Al Khalifah could not have declared himself as a Messager without it, so it is in their best interest to keep causing doubts about Qur'an message. They are the enemy of God and the enemy of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). The ode 19 cult will soon become (or maybe it is already) the favorite religion just like Qadianis with the US administration because they are destroying Islam in the name of a number and for the love of a false and hypocrite (munafiq) messenger Rashad Al Khalifah.
Please do believe in what you read on submission.org or written by Edip Yuksel / Layth. Verify it yourself by referring to Qur'an.
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Salamun Aalaikum KGB.
Please just understand that Submission.org foundation is build on the concept that Qur'an is corrupted. Rashad Al Khalifah could not have declared himself as a Messager without it, so it is in their best interest to keep causing doubts about Qur'an message. They are the enemy of God and the enemy of Prophet Muhammad (SAW). The ode 19 cult will soon become (or maybe it is already) the favorite religion just like Qadianis with the US administration because they are destroying Islam in the name of a number and for the love of a false and hypocrite (munafiq) messenger Rashad Al Khalifah.
Actually i dont believe in the 19 code. )
And i dun believe that Rashad khalifa is a messenger.But this 2 versions of the arabic Quran is not about the code 19 at all.. its just about the variations of words used in the Quran
This i get from a Christian website
Differences between the basic printed letters in the Qur'an text.
Sura HAFS' TRANSMISSION Vs. Sura WARSH' TRANSMISSION
2132 wawassaa 2139 wa'awsaa
2132 himu 2131 hiimu
3133 wasaari'uu 3133 saari'uu
554 yartadda 556 yartadid
Problems with "diacritical dots" (marks that distinguish one letter from another).
2140 taquluna 2139 yaquluna
381 taytukum 380 ataynakum
2259 nunshizuhaa 2258 nunshiruhaa
Differences between vowels.
2214 yaquula 2212 yaquulu
29 yakdhibuuna 29 yukadhdhibuuna
2184 ta'aamu miskiinin 2183 ta'aami masakiinaAnd since im not well versed in Arabic..could somebdy help me with this? Is there any difference (in the sense of meaning) between the Hafs and the warsh arabic Quran?
Thank you in advance.
salam. -
Thanks for bringing this subject up Loli,
Just a few days ago I read in various websites that there are different Qu'rans around. The main differences are grammatical they say. I Cannot speak arabic but I'm wondering if these differences have an impact in the translation process.
ok this made me very concerned ... because this is becoming an authenticity problem ? -
Please do believe in what you read on submission.org or written by Edip Yuksel / Layth. Verify it yourself by referring to Qur'an.
Salaamun KGB,
I have observed one too many posts continously sniping at these characters whilst everyone here has the sense not to blindly follow the afore mentioned people.
Please tell us what exactly do you bring to the party? What do you know that Edip and Layth don't? Demonstrate to us that your knowledge is better and you are beyond suspicion and dislike.
Remember, making assertions do not make it a fact. Your facts and reasoning give credibility to your views. Currently we are seeing rhetorical arguments and its easy to recognise them.
So, please tell us your views on things...
Wa'salaam wink
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Walleikum Salaam Ash Shuura,
Did I ever say to follow me? Referring to Qur'an means take guidance from Qur'an.
I never claim to be the most knowledgable person but I will keep opposing what is wrong according to my limited knowledge of Qur'an and code 19 to me is wrong. I will oppose everyone who is promoting Rashad Al Khalifah Messengership and creating doubts about the authenticity of Qur'an.
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ok this made me very concerned ... because this is becoming an authenticity problem
We just have two people here Loli and Humility who had suspicions about Qur'an authenticity. This fitna will create create more divisions with people with weak faith will denounce Islam.
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Salam KGB
We just have two people here Loli and Humility who had suspicions about Qur'an authenticity. This fitna will create create more divisions with people with weak faith will denounce Islam.
I believe the Quran is authentic, no questions about that..but im just comfused with some new(maybe incomplete) infomation i got from the web.
Today seven canonical readings of the Qur'an and several uncanonical exist. This sevener-system was laid down by Ibn Mujahid who tried to find the special characteristics of each reading and thus derived common rules by analogical reasoning (qiyas). They are
- Nafi' of Madina (169/785), transmitted by Warsh (197/812)
- Ibn Kathir of Makka (120/737)
- Ibn 'Amir of Damascus (118/736)
- Abu 'Amr of Basra (148/770)
- 'Asim of Kufa (127/744), transmitted by Hafs (180/796)
- Hamza of Kufa (156/772)
- Al-Kisa'i of Kufa (189/804), transmitted by Duri (246/860)
These readings differ in the vocalization (tashkil ل of a few words. By far the two best-known readings of the Qur'an are the Warsh (ش and Hafs (ص readings; the others are almost never used.
http//www.unipedia.info/Quran.html
Does the vocalization of the arabic words in the Quran have an effect on the meaning/translation of the Quran?
I believe this question is based on the fact of history and not to create division among people.Peace.
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Walleikum Salaam Loli,
I am not calling you or Humility fitna. I have written in wrong way btw which I always do and am sorry if you thought that I was accusing you of causing fitna.
I checked your profile and find out that you are from Malaysia. My regards for Malaysian are due to one respected leader that land has created Dr. Mahathir Muhammad.
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Salamun KGB,
True neither you, Edip or Layth said "follow me?". Excellent reminder!
I have no issue with contrary views as long as it goes beyond addressing the names but it addresses the issues with proof. I don't think you can argue with limited knowledge as it presupposes that you are right and others are wrong. I believe if one has lesser knowledge and proof is given it should be studied. Hence, I would very much like to see proof in a contrary view. Those are the people I enjoy reading. This is just my opinion and is not emposed on you in any shape or form.
Wa'salaam
Walleikum Salaam Ash Shuura,
Did I ever say to follow me? Referring to Qur'an means take guidance from Qur'an.
I never claim to be the most knowledgable person but I will keep opposing what is wrong according to my limited knowledge of Qur'an and code 19 to me is wrong. I will oppose everyone who is promoting Rashad Al Khalifah Messengership and creating doubts about the authenticity of Qur'an.
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Peace Loli,
it is interensting that there are 2(Warsh and Hafs) versions of arabic Quran..i dont know about you guys..but this seems shocking..
The Warsh version is mainly used in North Africa, while the Hafs is used in the Middle East and elsewhere.
The differences between the two texts are minor while the content and message remains the same.
What is required is a re-verification of the Quranic text using the oldest surviving manuscripts...there is only one Quran and by ignoring small spelling or gramatical errors and not rectifying them is opening the door to doubt (not the other way round).
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Salaam Aleikum Layth,
I know you don't like me at all but all my opposition is for the love of God and for the love of the Last Prophet and and Messenger Muhammad (SAW). Love for Prophet Muhammad (SAW) can't be labeled as worshiping him. I love my mother, my nieces, nephew, brothers and am sure you guys do love your children wife brother sister mother as well without worshiping them.
What is required is a re-verification of the Quranic text using the oldest surviving manuscripts...there is only one Quran and by ignoring small spelling or gramatical errors and not rectifying them is opening the door to doubt (not the other way round).
I agree with you for the very first time.
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could you please stop attacking people and pointing fingers because it's not leading anywhere and perhaps that's exactly what will bring fitna here. roll
As I said I do not speak Arabic therefore I cannot know how different the Qu'ran versions are. That is why I'm concerned. Because right now it's beyond my reach. So yeah when you are in ignorance you tend to be concerned! Don't you think that's normal?
ok this made me very concerned ... because this is becoming an authenticity problem
We just have two people here Loli and Humility who had suspicions about Qur'an authenticity. This fitna will create create more divisions with people with weak faith will denounce Islam.
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The Warsh version is mainly used in North Africa, while the Hafs is used in the Middle East and elsewhere.
The differences between the two texts are minor while the content and message remains the same.
What is required is a re-verification of the Quranic text using the oldest surviving manuscripts...there is only one Quran and by ignoring small spelling or gramatical errors and not rectifying them is opening the door to doubt (not the other way round).
Thank you
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Peace KGB,
I know you don't like me at all but all my opposition is for the love of God and for the love of the Last Prophet and and Messenger Muhammad (SAW). Love for Prophet Muhammad (SAW) can't be labeled as worshiping him. I love my mother, my nieces, nephew, brothers and am sure you guys do love your children wife brother sister mother as well without worshiping them.
I have nothing against you or anyone else on this forum. You are entiltled to your opinoin, right or wrong.
As for the love you share for God and the prophet...that is admirable.
I love God more than anything or anyone else (He has no equal)...
As for the prophet, I love him as I do all other prophets/messengers who have strived in the cause of God and carried out His bidding...
I make no distinction between any of His messengers.
Your opposition to my views may simply be a reactive position on your part...I invite you to share the points that you find to be in opposition as I am willing to discuss these points and I am always willing to alter my views towards what can be proven as the truth, or that which is of a stronger evidence/proof.
For simplicity, you may want to start a new thread for such discussion with the points of contestion listed.
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Peace all,
This issue regarding hafs/warsh is overblown. Over time languages adapt to the people who speak them. We see this in English and all its variants around the world.
Here are good examples in English of variant spellings -
colour vs color
recognise vs recognize
aint vs is not / am not
These variants demonstrate how the writing does not really influence the underlying meaning and they represent the adaptations to regional preferences.
Compared to the thousands upon thousands of words within the Koran the minor and few differences between the hafs/warsh are simply examples of language adaptation and human errors rather than any flaw with the message.
Peace.
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Peace..KGB
I am not calling you or Humility fitna. I have written in wrong way btw which I always do and am sorry if you thought that I was accusing you of causing fitna.
Apology accepted. )
I checked your profile and find out that you are from Malaysia. My regards for Malaysian are due to one respected leader that land has created Dr. Mahathir Muhammad.
Thank you..
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Peace Layth , truth ..all
The Warsh version is mainly used in North Africa, while the Hafs is used in the Middle East and elsewhere.
The differences between the two texts are minor while the content and message remains the same.
What is required is a re-verification...
Thanx layth..for the new info.. So why the Hafs transnmission dominate the muslim world? is it about politics ?
At first i thought no error could enter the holy Quran on paper.. Now i know that God preserve the message transmitted by ink and paper and not the ink and paper its self.Peace all,
This issue regarding hafs/warsh is overblown. Over time languages adapt to the people who speak them. We see this in English and all its variants around the world.
Here are good examples in English of variant spellings - ...
Splendid example truth.. thank you.. I notice about the Hafs and Warsh transmission in a christian-muslim debate on a forum.. most muslim dont know about the variant in the arabic Quran. And when the christians ask the muslim about the hafs and warsh transmission..the muslim including me receive quite a shock..
anyway..thank you..
