Does denial (kufr) matter?
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I must have written my message in chinese, because you are arguing with me something that I did not say.
I am saying that there is no excuse not to cknowledge those envoys that the Qur'an endorses. I don't from where you get the idea that I am expecting anybody to acknowledge somebody one does not know.
But surely those int he Qur'an mentionned by God, we do know.
It is you who is mixing up those mentionned in the Qur'an and those not mentionned.
If you do not know them, you cannot deny them. But those in the Qur'an yes, you can deny them. What is obscure or doubtful about that?
Salaam
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So, if it does not matter why does the Qur'an repeat over and over that those who deny the prohets (and other things) will be punished and insists that we should believe in all of them, in fact a ew lines before the aya quoted He says it again.
WE should think. Prophets are good people. Excellent people. Never self-interest clouds their actions. A lot of people here consider prophets only by virtue of their speaking. God in the Qur'an tells us their deeds. What did yusuf say by way of preaching? Precious little that we know of. But God has told us about his actions. And you see what a decent, person he was, what a gentleman... How patient after being imprisoned through calumny... He did not change or accommodate. Nor was he boastful or high handed. Excellent person.
Non we cannot deny the prophets, because our aim should be to be like them. Would one deny a person who excelled in the virtues one wishes to attain? It would be the same as denying oneself. And one should not deny oneself, which is a gift of God, but become what one can become as a person who returns to God.
Why don't we verify that, yes, God, wants us to believe and not deny the prophets. He says it often enough. What is the doubt?
And as to those we have not known of, we should also include them in our belief, since God tells us they existed indeed. All peoples have been blessed with their presence, it is not any semitic monopoly or anything of the kind. And undoubtedly we could recognize many if we get to know the history and the beliefs and spirituality of different people where memore of that exists.
Salaam
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SLM huruf,
let me say this, i dont need to know , who the prophets were when they lived, i know they were real beleavers, thats why they were the chosen ones. thats like winning the lottery , one in the millions are the chosen one... so its not a common thing, you have to be very special ...
because our aim should be to be like them
we cant be like them, we are "ordinary " humans with our faultiness, Our nafs is very big problem to us ...
i see like this
prophet/messengers --> duty = sending the message to people(and jins)
people(jins) ---> receive message ---> up to them if they take.....message ===> the Quran
prophets / messengers ===> HUMANS
And as to those we have not known of, we should also include them in our belief
no , they did their duty and passed away, Only Quran should be in our beliefs.and if you wanna know how to be a good human according to Quran ( saw this on the net very nice upsomming )
https//themuslimvibe.com/featured/59-examples-of-islamic-etiquette-in-the-holy-quran
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Do not be rude in speech
?So by mercy from Allah, , you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah . Indeed, Allah loves those who rely .? ? The Holy Quran 3159 -
Restrain Anger
?Who spend during ease and hardship and who restrain anger and who pardon the people ? and Allah loves the doers of good.? ? The Holy Quran 3134 -
Be good to others
?Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful.? ? The Holy Quran 436 -
Do not be arrogant
? said, ?Descend from Paradise, for it is not for you to be arrogant therein. So get out; indeed, you are of the debased.? ? The Holy Quran 713 -
Forgive others for their mistakes
?Show forgiveness, enjoin what is good, and turn away from the ignorant.? ? The Holy Quran 7199 -
Speak to people mildly
?And speak to him with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear .? ? The Holy Quran 2044 -
Do not ridicule one another
?O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by nicknames. Wretched is the name of disobedience after faith. And whoever does not repent ? then it is those who are the wrongdoers.? ? The Holy Quran 4911 -
Do not say a word of disrespect to your parents
?Say not to them , ?uff,? and do not repel them but speak to them a noble word? ? The Holy Quran 1723 -
Do not follow anyone blindly
?And when it is said to them, ?Follow what Allah has revealed,? they say, ?Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing.? Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?? ? The Holy Quran 2170 -
Grant more time to repay if the debtor is in hard times
?And if someone is in hardship, then postponement until ease. But if you give charity, then it is better for you, if you only knew.? ? The Holy Quran 2280 -
Do not engage in bribery
?And do not consume one another?s wealth unjustly or send it to the rulers in order that you consume a portion of the wealth of the people in sin, while you know .? ? The Holy Quran 2188 -
Do not break promises
?Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but righteousness is one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask , and for freeing slaves; establishes prayer and gives zakah; fulfill their promise when they promise; and are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous.? ? The Holy Quran 2177 -
Stand out firmly for justice
?O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah , even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort or refuse , then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted.? ? The Holy Quran 4135 -
Women also have the right for inheritance
?And for women is a share of what the parents and close relatives leave, be it little or much ? an obligatory share.? ? The Holy Quran 47 -
Protect orphans
?To this world and the Hereafter. And they ask you about orphans. Say, ?Improvement for them is best. And if you mix your affairs with theirs ? they are your brothers. And Allah knows the corrupter from the amender. And if Allah had willed, He could have put you in difficulty. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.? ? The Holy Quran 2220 -
Do not consume one another?s wealth unjustly
O you who have believed, do not consume one another?s wealth unjustly but only business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves . Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful. ? The Holy Quran 429 -
Try for settlement between people
?And if two factions among the believers should fight, then make settlement between the two. But if one of them oppresses the other, then fight against the one that oppresses until it returns to the ordinance of Allah . And if it returns, then make settlement between them in justice and act justly. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.? ? The Holy Quran 499 -
Avoid assumption
?O you who have believed, avoid much assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin.? ? The Holy Quran 4912 -
Do not spy and backbite
And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Accepting of repentance and Merciful- The Holy Quran 4912 -
Spend wealth in charity
?Believe in Allah and His Messenger and spend out of that in which He has made you successors. For those who have believed among you and spent, there will be a great reward.? ? The Holy Quran 577 -
Help those in need by finding them
? for the poor who have been restricted for the cause of Allah , unable to move about in the land. An ignorant would think them self-sufficient because of their restraint, but you will know them by their sign. They do not ask people persistently . And whatever you spend of good ? indeed, Allah is Knowing of it.? ? The Holy Quran 2273 -
Speak to the needy kindly
?And if you turn away from the needy awaiting mercy from your Lord which you expect, then speak to them a gentle word.? ? The Holy Quran 1728 -
Honour your guests
?Then he turned quickly to his household, brought out a roasted fattened calf, and placed it before them. He said ?Will you not eat?'?- The Holy Quran 5126 -
Be dutiful towards your parents
?And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him, and to parents, good treatment. Whether one or both of them reach old age with you.? ? The Holy Quran 1723 -
Practice what you preach
?Do you order righteousness of the people and forget yourselves while you recite the Scripture? Then will you not reason?? ? The Holy Quran 244 -
Stay away from corruption
?Eat and drink from the provision of Allah , and do not commit abuse on the earth, spreading corruption.?- The Holy Quran 260 -
Fight only with those who fight you
?Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.? ? The Holy Quran 2190 -
Keep striving
?And that there is not for man except that for which he strives? ? The Holy Quran 5339 -
There is no compulsion in religion
?There shall be no compulsion in the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.? ? The Holy Quran 2256 -
Choose rulers by their merit
?And their prophet said to them, ?Indeed, Allah has sent to you Saul as a king.? They said, ?How can he have kingship over us while we are more worthy of kingship than him and he has not been given any measure of wealth?? He said, ?Indeed, Allah has chosen him over you and has increased him abundantly in knowledge and stature. And Allah gives His sovereignty to whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.?? ? The Holy Quran 2247 -
Do not burden a person beyond his scope
?Allah does not charge a soul except its capacity. It will have what it has gained, and it will bear what it has earned. ?Our Lord, do not impose blame upon us if we have forgotten or erred. Our Lord, and lay not upon us a burden like that which You laid upon those before us. Our Lord, and burden us not with that which we have no ability to bear. And pardon us; and forgive us; and have mercy upon us. You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people.?? ? The Holy Quran 2286 -
Do not become divided
?And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you ? when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.? ? The Holy Quran 3103 -
Men and Women have equal rewards for their deeds
And their Lord responded to them, ?Never will I allow to be lost the work of worker among you, whether male or female; you are of one another. So those who emigrated or were evicted from their homes or were harmed in My cause or fought or were killed ? I will surely remove from them their misdeeds, and I will surely admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow as reward from Allah , and Allah has with Him the best reward.? ? The Holy Quran 3195 -
Do not be miserly
?Who are stingy and enjoin upon people stinginess and conceal what Allah has given them of His bounty ? and We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.? ? The Holy Quran 437 -
Do not be envious
?Or do they envy people for what Allah has given them of His bounty? But we had already given the family of Abraham the Scripture and wisdom and conferred upon them a great kingdom.? ? The Holy Quran 454 -
Do not be an advocate for deceit
?Indeed, We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth so you may judge between the people by that which Allah has shown you. And do not be for the deceitful an advocate.? ? The Holy Quran 4105 -
Stay away from sin and aggression
?? but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty.? ? The Holy Quran 52 -
Be just
?O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do.? ? The Holy Quran 58 -
Avoid intoxicants and alcohol
?O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, stone alters , and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.? ? The Holy Quran 590 -
Do not gamble
?Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?? ? The Holy Quran 591 -
Do not insult others? deities
?And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do.? ? The Holy Quran 6108 -
Eat and Drink, But Be Not Excessive
?O children of Adam, take your adornment at every masjid, and eat and drink, but be not excessive. Indeed, He likes not those who commit excess.? ? The Holy Quran 731 -
Protect and help those who seek protection
?And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.? ? The Holy Quran 96 -
Allah will forgive those who have done wrong out of ignorance
?Then, indeed your Lord, to those who have done wrong out of ignorance and then repent after that and correct themselves ? indeed, your Lord, thereafter, is Forgiving and Merciful.? ? The Holy Quran 16119 -
Invitation to God should be with wisdom and good instruction
?Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is guided.? ? The Holy Quran 16125 -
Do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge
?And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed, the hearing, the sight and the heart ? about all those will be questioned.? ? The Holy Quran 17.36 -
Keep aloof from what is vain
?And they who turn away from ill speech? ? The Holy Quran 233 -
Do not enter others? houses without seeking permission
?O you who have believed, do not enter houses other than your own houses until you ascertain welcome and greet their inhabitants. That is best for you; perhaps you will be reminded.? ? The Holy Quran 2427 -
Walk on earth with humility
?And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them , they say peace? ? The Holy Quran 2563 -
Judge with justice between people
?Indeed, Allah commands you to render trusts to whom they are due and when you judge between people to judge with justice. Excellent is that which Allah instructs you. Indeed, Allah is ever Hearing and Seeing.? ? The Holy Quran 458 -
Do not neglect your portion of this world
?But seek, through that which Allah has given you, the home of the Hereafter; and , do not forget your share of the world. And do good as Allah has done good to you. And desire not corruption in the land. Indeed, Allah does not like corrupters.? ? The Holy Quran 2877 -
Enjoin right, forbid wrong
?O my son, establish prayer, enjoin what is right, forbid what is wrong, and be patient over what befalls you. Indeed, that is of the matters determination.? ? The Holy Quran 3117 -
Do not walk in insolence through the earth
?And do not turn your cheek toward people and do not walk through the earth exultantly. Indeed, Allah does not like everyone self-deluded and boastful.? ? The Holy Quran 3118 -
Women should not display their finery
?And abide in your houses and do not display yourselves as the display of the former times of ignorance. And establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah intends only to remove from you the impurity , O people of the household, and to purify you with purification.? ? The Holy Quran 3333 -
Do not despair of the mercy of Allah
?Say, ?O My servants who have transgressed against themselves , do not despair of the mercy of Allah.? ? The Holy Quran 3953 -
Decide on affairs by consultation
?And those who have responded to their lord and established prayer and whose affair is consultation among themselves, and from what We have provided them, they spend.? ? The Holy Quran 4238 -
The most noble of you is the most righteous
?O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.? ? The Holy Quran 4913 -
Act justly to people of all faiths
?Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes ? from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.? ? The Holy Quran 608 -
Seek forgiveness of Allah. He is Forgiving and Merciful
?And whatever good you put forward for yourselves ? you will find it with Allah . It is better and greater in reward. And seek forgiveness of Allah . Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.? ? The Holy Quran 7320
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Kaltun, when reading what I say, you seem to be splitting hairs.
When I say be like the prophets, obviously, very obviously, extremely obviously, I do not mean to be copies of them, but to have the intent to follow the example of the prophets in their behviour. Prophets are sent as examples of behaviour. There is to much insistence on the part of "muslim pharisees" to reduce the mission of prophets to handing out some writings or speeches, which, by the way, is the reason "given" by some of them to reject Maryam as prophet, where are her writings or speeches? But if it were so, the Qur'an would not go such a long way to relate to us so many stories of prophets where not speeches or writings ar the content but their deeds and experiences.
So yes, I insist, prophets are sent to us so that we learn from their behaviour to practice the uprightness and faithfulness to truth and justice as they did. Not to be copies or prophets themselves but to be good humans, the kind of good humanity of which the prophets are examples we can follow. That is what I meant when I said try to be like the prophets, that is, good, faithful persons, I thought it was obvious. If nobody could be good as the prophets were good why should God bother to send them? We can never be like prophets, so what is the good of sending them to us to learn from them? Just memorise some speeches and writings? Do we realise how that is turning religion into rituality and getting away from true, heartfelt goodness?
As to past unknown prophets, you also split hairs. They are dead. Great, we all will be dead and most humans, millions upon millions are dead and forgotten. So why do we bother to remember great deeds from past people including named prophets?
God says we do have to believe in them, just like He says we believe in the angels. Do you happen to know many angels by their name or by other things? Not? so you do not have to believe int he angels?
The Qur'an says it. We do have to believe in prophets, all prophets, whether we know them or not. God says he has sent them. Is he lying? Does He not know what He says?
He just gave us some taste of the whole lot int he Qur'an just to realise what a prophet is and just so we are not taken in by pretenders, as there are so many, whether they call themselves prophets or call themselves something else.
So we are told to be good and so many thigns as you have quoted. We all have a fitra to follow properly, but we all also get examples of behaviour from other people, which may be good or bad or in between. We would be deluding ourselves if we thought those other people, the whole of them do not influence us, do not pose their imprint on us. They do, we are social animals and we have to take into account our conditioning, so we should discriminate what examples we allow ourselves to imprint on us. The Qur'an gives us detailed behaviour and different experiences of prophets so we get some psychology and discernment between motivations and behaviour of people. Are we justified to hold on to parts of the Qur'an and discard others?
Salaam
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i meant , does it matter ( even its mentioned in Quran) to know who the prophets are or were ??
It only matter for those who based their religion / cult / sect / ideology based on the figure of past people who are being entitled as prophets.
Otherwise, no it doesn't matter..
is it denying if i say , i dont need to know who the prophets were ? to my knowledge Quran tells me who they are/were ?? this i had so many times to discuss with my parents, i don not follow people ..
Good for you, there are no way to really know people who has been dead for many centuries..
Those who claimed "to know" is certainly a liar...
What they know is based on many centuries of stories / legend and not first hand observation...If centuries of stories / legends about Muhammad are true, I say that he's a narcissistic psychopath..
Was he really a narcissistic psychopath? I don't know.. I never met the dude... I don't know his face.. I can't even recognize him among the people (if he was being brought back to life)is it weird to take only Quran as the truth and to think that the rest are in the corner what eventual is negligible....
Definitely very weird...
like the guy/woman who invented penicillin , do i know who he/she was, how he/she lived ? no .. i only know its created for the health purpose for the human body, its has his manual for how to uses DOT.....
It become importantl if only somebody invented a religion named "Flemingism".
And put forward the figure of (dead) Alexander Fleming as the key figure of their religion.
It is mandated for anybody inside the religion / cult to bear testify and accept Alexander Fleming as their prophet.this is also how i see the Quran .. .our mind / hart is sick and the cure is the QURAN
The cure is common sense and healthy conscience..
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SLM Jafar,
i meant , does it matter ( even its mentioned in Quran) to know who the prophets are or were ??
It only matter for those who based their religion / cult / sect / ideology based on the figure of past people who are being entitled as prophets.
Otherwise, no it doesn't matter..
so if you have Quran and you follow only the Quran , then you dont need to know
is it weird to take only Quran as the truth and to think that the rest are in the corner what eventual is negligible....
Definitely very weird...
LOL
why ??this is also how i see the Quran .. .our mind / hart is sick and the cure is the QURAN
The cure is common sense and healthy conscience..
you / we cant always use common sense, and its kind a knowledge too, what do you know what common sense , i mean common is not common as you say
but i short what i meant to say is..
if we have Quran and we beleave in it 100% ... the first thing what the Quran say is , beleave in Allah , La ila he Illallah . and Allah uses mankind to deliver the message to mankind...
if you have the status of an prophet, thats mean your an chosen one, this mean your a " perfect "human ( no body is perfect). -
so if you have Quran and you follow only the Quran , then you dont need to know
If you are a conscience healthy human being, then you don't need to know..
If you're a sectarian / religious or you're a leader of such cult then you need to convince others, especially your followers of the truthfulness of your dogma and the 'specialty' and 'superiority' of your religion, cult, sect. So people will not leave your religion and ask others to join and makes your religion stronger.
you / we cant always use common sense, and its kind a knowledge too, what do you know what common sense , i mean common is not common as you say
Before Isaac Newton time; people commonly think that rock fell down to the ground when being thrown was because the rock was tired. And when the rock was tired flying off the ground he/it will eventually fell down to the ground to rest.
So yeah sometimes common sense is nonsensical...
But nonsense is always a nonsense... it just a matter of time to be revealed as such...if we have Quran and we beleave in it 100% ... the first thing what the Quran say is , beleave in Allah , La ila he Illallah . and Allah uses mankind to deliver the message to mankind...
if you have the status of an prophet, thats mean your an chosen one, this mean your a " perfect "human ( no body is perfect).Do you think God need help to deliver message to human?
If somebody claimed a status of a prophet, you should ask yourselves WHY...
Why he claimed as such and why he feels the need to be recognized as such...Does Einstein or Newton ever claimed a status as scientist and asked others to testify that he is a scientist?
Does Mary ever claimed a status as prophetess and asked others to testify that she is a prophetess?
What she ever claimed was that her son was innocent and doesn't deserved to be crucified..Lorna Byrne, an Irish woman still alive today, claimed that she sees and talk with angels on daily basis.
She wrote books about it (yet never claimed to be written by God or Angel)
And she never asked to be recognized as prophetess..
But she does deliver a peaceful message, among them is that religion/identity doesn't really matter... -
27.80-81
Truly thou canst not cause the dead to listen, nor canst thou cause the deaf to hear the call, (especially) when they turn back in retreat. 80.
Nor canst thou be a guide to the blind, (to prevent them) from straying only those wilt thou get to listen who believe in Our Signs, and they will bow in Islam. 81.Salaam