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Sufiism

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  • B Offline
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    bluerose
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    Is there any quranic support for the sufi approach to understanding islam? does anyone here study sufiism?

    blue

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      truth
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Peace bluerose,

      There are serious flaws in the sufi way; the most severe of which is the basic tenet of the 'pir' - a man (invariably) who is able to completely dominate the spiritual guidance of those following him.

      The followers are required to believe in the blessed nature of this man and the 'golden chain' that links him to his predecessors and allegedly to the messenger ultimately.

      It's a form of worship of ancestors - with a power play / abuse at the very end of the chain. A 'pir' could for example demand anything from their followers and they would be obligated to submit under their false sufi way.

      It's a way of falsehood. Don't walk, run away from such shirk.

      Peace.

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        Nural_Amin
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Peace,

        I don't know much about Sufism, but from what I have studied, it seems more like a more open minded and very wide area with a lot of differences between groups. When I say open minded I mean compared to traditionalist sectarian groups. There are more youths in this modern day and age that prefer the approach of Sufism because of the mystical side maybe.

        Having read the texts of Rumi (Sufi poet) I see what Truth is talking about when he/she mentions the 'golden chain'. This is a very unquranic concept and basically gives undue authority to others and there is belief in intercession. That is a big flaw, I agree.

        But do all sufi groups follow this way and accept the 'divine nature' of the chief sufi?

        Nural

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          truth
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Dear M Mehdi,

          The information is available to any researcher. There are various orders of Sufis but one of the most influential and probably most prevalent is the 'Naqshbandi' order - though all orders follow the importance of obeying the 'pir' or 'shaykh' of the order.

          From http//www.naqshbandi.org/frmpract.htm

          Tariqat is the firm intention (cazamah) of the sharacah. It does not exist outside of sharacah. It is the resolution to follow the Sunnah of the Prophet (s) as completely as possible in every aspect, both external and internal, exposed and hidden, exoteric and esoteric, physical and spiritual. To follow Tariqat the murid puts his trust in the judgment of the Shaykh for the correct understanding and application of the guidance of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. The murid places his hand in the hand of an authorized, living Shaykh and must procede as indicated by him. He must be ready at all times to receive the orders of his Shaykh, just as the Prophet (s) awaited the coming of Jibril with revelation from Allah, Almighty and Exalted. In the same way he must follow the Shaykh's orders, carrying them out to the letter. He must have the "adab of anticipation," which means that he must constantly await the orders of his guide. He must adopt the attitude of a hunter to its prey, being oblivious to all other directions. His sight, hearing, existence and thoughts should be ready to receive orders, and he should always be ready to carry out some new order. Such a man will be a master of the adab of the Exalted Naqshbandi Order, and this tajalli (manifestation) will become apparent in him.

          The murid should keep to his daily dhikr and should obey the order of his Shaykh, without veering to the right or to the left. GrandShaykh Shaykh cAbdullah ad-Daghestani said, "My tongue is the tongue of the secret of the shari'ah and of the secret of the Qur'an." Then he asked a question saying, "Who are the bearers and protectors of the Qur'an?" and answered himself "The bearers and protectors of Qur'an are the ones who set foot in all the exalted stations and knew them with true understanding. And is it not right, my children, that I should indicate to you that you should follow this path so that you may reach and discover these stations?"

          The orders are based upon obedience of a man and their interpretations of everything. This is not the system of God.

          The so called Golden Chain of the Naqshbandi order.

          1. Prophet Muhammad ibn Abd Allah, Salla Allahu `alayhi wa alihi wa sallam
          2. Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, radiya-l-Lahu`anh
          3. Salman al-Farsi, radiya-l-Lahu`anh
          4. Qassim ibn Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr
          5. Jafar as-Sadiq, alayhi-s-salam
          6. Tayfur Abu Yazid al-Bistami, radiya-l-Lahu canh
          7. Abul Hassan Ali al-Kharqani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          8. Abu Ali al-Farmadi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          9. Abu Yaqub Yusuf al-Hamadani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          10. Abul Abbas, al-Khidr, alayhi-s-salam
          11. Abdul Khaliq al-Ghujdawani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          12. Arif ar-Riwakri, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          13. Khwaja Mahmoud al-Anjir al-Faghnawi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          14. Ali ar-Ramitani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          15. Muhammad Baba as-Samasi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          16. as-Sayyid Amir Kulal, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          17. Muhammad Baha'uddin Shah Naqshband, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          18. Ala'uddin al-Bukhari al-cAttar, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          19. Yaqub al-Charkhi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          20. Ubaydullah al-Ahrar, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          21. Muhammad az-Zahid, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          22. Darwish Muhammad, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          23. Muhammad Khwaja al-Amkanaki, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          24. Muhammad al-Baqi bi-l-Lah, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          25. Ahmad al-Faruqi as-Sirhindi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          26. Muhammad al-Masum, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          27. Muhammad Sayfuddin al-Faruqi al-Mujaddidi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          28. as-Sayyid Nur Muhammad al-Badawani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          29. Shamsuddin Habib Allah, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          30. Abdullah ad-Dahlawi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          31. Khalid al-Baghdadi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          32. Ismail Muhammad ash-Shirwani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          33. Khas Muhammad Shirwani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          34. Muhammad Effendi al-Yaraghi, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          35. Jamaluddin al-Ghumuqi al-Husayni, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          36. Abu Ahmad as-Sughuri, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          37. Abu Muhammad al-Madani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          38. Sharafuddin ad-Daghestani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          39. Abdullah al-Fa'iz ad-Daghestani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah
          40. Muhammad Nazim Adil al-Haqqani, qaddasa-l-Lahu sirrah

          http//www.naqshbandi.org/chain/names.htm

          And another quote

          The believer relies on guides to indicate clearly to him what to discard and what to follow. The Qur'an and Sunnah are the foundation of all guidance. The Madhahib judgments of the four Imams, the writing of the scholars and their living inheritors relay and explain the guidance. Whoever keeps to this guidance will be on the ira al-mustaqam, the straight path.

          ie. sell your intellect as opposed to 1736 in order to be guided. Sufism is not only flawed (I was being soft in using that word) it is positively misguided.

          The chain is important not just for guidance, but for intercession...

          Our grandShaykh Shaykh cAbdullah ad-Daghestani advised this fashion of calling on the Prophet (s) and the Shaykhs of the Order when asking their intercession. This formulation was transmitted to him by his Shaykh who received it through the Golden Chain, each Shaykh passing it one to another.

          Ya Sayyid as-Sadat (blah blah blah....)

          Clear shirk.

          Regards.

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            Nural_Amin
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Peace,

            That is one BIG GOLDEN CHAIN truth! lol. From my reading into Sufism, reading Jalaluddin Rumi especially I have seen signs of this GOLDEN CHAIN idea and the undue authority given to teachers who are treated and spoke of as though they are gods.

            There are obvious flaws evident. But I would be interested in learning about Sufi orders that don't have these major flaws. Although they vary they mainly keep these basic ideas intact and either way Muhammed plays the role of intercessor in Sufi beliefs. This is to my knowledge, like I said I would like to learn about any pure order that is GOD alone.

            Peace

            Nural

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              asdfjk
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Salaams

              I believe there is a sufi member of this forum. Perhaps Olusanya will be able to tell it from a sufi perspective...

              for myself I'm not a Sufi but I'm sure its the most misrepresented area within traditional Islam. Some of it relies a lot on hadith and non-quranic sources which is what has always kept me away from it. But the once or twice I went to a nashqabandi mosque they just kept going on about righteous conduct in the world..... and even today I still couldn't find fault with what they were saying even though I'd differ with them on their allegience to hadiths.

              I think we have to bear with people whose beliefs differ from out less we come to think of ourselves as the keepers of truth - only Allah can be considered to know the truth. We must strive but remain humble.

              peace
              asdfjk

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                truth
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Peace Muhammad,

                but that does that mean that you have no need at all of learning more of the mystic path? ... i sure hope not... because the day we stop learning... is the day that we start to kill the soul...

                Sufism = making masters/gods out of men...

                http//www.naqshbandi.net/haqqani/images/tiny/mawlana.gif

                http//www.naqshbandi.net/haqqani/images/tiny/shhisham.gif

                As for mysticism in general - I think all mystic thought is akin to gambling and wine - there is some benefit but much more harm. God's system is not occulted - it is plain and open. It is free to the inquiring mind. Light displaces darkness, truth washes away falsehood.

                Look at all the misguided ways on earth and you always detect secrecy and occultism. Scientology, Kabalah, Masonry, Buddism etc all have 'secret' pathways to enlightenment. The sure sign of satanic influence.

                In God's system there are no secrets except what He has kept from us by design.

                Peace.

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                  khalil
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Peace Truth

                  Sufism = making masters/gods out of men...

                  Is this based on a sect of sufism (ie the largest) or every single Sufi sect? I believe Mehdi's example regarding Mose's teacher is parellal to the idea of having a master.

                  As for mysticism in general - I think all mystic thought is akin to gambling and wine - there is some benefit but much more harm. God's system is not occulted - it is plain and open. It is free to the inquiring mind. Light displaces darkness, truth washes away falsehood.

                  What do you define mysticism as? It's a loose/broad term in my opinion. I recall the reading telling us that God has made his sign's clear for those with understanding. So God's signs are clear to those who answer the knock at the door, yet secret to those who have sealed off the entrance.

                  Look at all the misguided ways on earth and you always detect secrecy and occultism. Scientology, Kabalah, Masonry, Buddism etc all have 'secret' pathways to enlightenment. The sure sign of satanic influence.

                  I believe that in the Kabalah and Bhuddism the secrecy dissappears once you begin to live what your taught, I cannot vouch for the rest however. I do not see how the occult can misguide andy more than religion.

                  In God's system there are no secrets except what He has kept from us by design.

                  Is that not a secret?

                  pz

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                    truth
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Peace khalil,

                    Peace Truth

                    Sufism = making masters/gods out of men...

                    Is this based on a sect of sufism (ie the largest) or every single Sufi sect? I believe Mehdi's example regarding Mose's teacher is parellal to the idea of having a master.

                    This is a false analogy. Moses' teacher is not described as a man or as a sufi master - examining its actions (ie. killing a boy) indicates that this being is an angel messenger and not a man.

                    As for mysticism in general - I think all mystic thought is akin to gambling and wine - there is some benefit but much more harm. God's system is not occulted - it is plain and open. It is free to the inquiring mind. Light displaces darkness, truth washes away falsehood.

                    What do you define mysticism as? It's a loose/broad term in my opinion. I recall the reading telling us that God has made his sign's clear for those with understanding. So God's signs are clear to those who answer the knock at the door, yet secret to those who have sealed off the entrance.

                    The word mysticism is derived from "mystery" - and in this context it is religious mystery or occult knowledge.

                    A sign is clear and open - it's visible to all and there is no secrecy to it.

                    The type of secrecy that mysticism enshrines is allegedly important spiritual knowledge held secret purposefully by an elite for the purposes of selfish gain.

                    That is mysticism - the examination of hidden meanings for perverse reasons and the purposeful concealment of those things. It's a satanic practice.

                    The meanings that are derived by these orders is always in support of its practices. The 'secret meanings' are fabricated to enhance the position and power of the order - never to damage it.

                    These people are not dealing in clear open signs - they are dealing in mystery and magic.

                    Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. 37

                    Look at all the misguided ways on earth and you always detect secrecy and occultism. Scientology, Kabalah, Masonry, Buddism etc all have 'secret' pathways to enlightenment. The sure sign of satanic influence.

                    I believe that in the Kabalah and Bhuddism the secrecy dissappears once you begin to live what your taught, I cannot vouch for the rest however. I do not see how the occult can misguide andy more than religion.

                    You are free to believe what you wish. They are the works of humans influenced by satan.

                    In God's system there are no secrets except what He has kept from us by design.

                    Is that not a secret?

                    pz

                    Not in the same sense as mystic secrets. The secrets held by God are on a level of absolute truth without falsehood.

                    The 'secrets' of these orders and men in the guise of mysticism is based of fabrication and wishful thinking. The concealed secrets are shared with the privileged obedient as a way of brainformatting the individuals into submission to the group and it's leader.

                    Mysticism = satan worship.

                    Regards.

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                      khalil
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Peace Truth

                      This is a false analogy. Moses' teacher is not described as a man or as a sufi master - examining its actions (ie. killing a boy) indicates that this being is an angel messenger and not a man.

                      Hmmm... I am unsure. Does not 68,9 say the opposite?

                      The word mysticism is derived from "mystery" - and in this context it is religious mystery or occult knowledge.

                      I do not see what is wrong with religious mystery nor occult knowledge. Rather, much like a sword it is how one uses this that makes it's effect right or wrong.

                      A sign is clear and open - it's visible to all and there is no secrecy to it.

                      Agreed. The signs are clear, but our vision can be fogged so we miss them.

                      The type of secrecy that mysticism enshrines is allegedly important spiritual knowledge held secret purposefully by an elite for the purposes of selfish gain.

                      I believe this is true in organized religions. I still am abit unsure of what you mean by mysticism, could you please elaborate? thanks.

                      That is mysticism - the examination of hidden meanings for perverse reasons and the purposeful concealment of those things. It's a satanic practice.

                      I do not believe that is mysticism because a wide variety of subjects have fallen under the mysticism umbrella. But indeed those practices you attributed toward mysticism are satanic (selfish).

                      The meanings that are derived by these orders is always in support of its practices. The 'secret meanings' are fabricated to enhance the position and power of the order - never to damage it.

                      Sounds more like a cult.

                      These people are not dealing in clear open signs - they are dealing in mystery and magic.

                      I do not see anything wrong with mystery, there are still verses in the reading that I do not understand but over time maybe they will be solved in my eyes. How do you define magic? The reading contrasts magic with truth, therefore I believe magic is used to represent lies-an illusion.

                      You are free to believe what you wish. They are the works of humans influenced by satan.

                      Agreed. We both have our own ways.

                      However, I think you are meshing the outcome of organized religions understandings of the books (eg the multiple meanings derived to cause confusion-37) with the books themselves.

                      In God's system there are no secrets except what He has kept from us by design.

                      Is that not a secret?

                      Not in the same sense as mystic secrets. The secrets held by God are on a level of absolute truth without falsehood.

                      I am abit unsure of what your are saying. Are the secrets that mystics hold to be lies? Please elaborate. thanks.

                      The 'secrets' of these orders and men in the guise of mysticism is based of fabrication and wishful thinking. The concealed secrets are shared with the privileged obedient as a way of brainformatting the individuals into submission to the group and it's leader.

                      Which orders? Cults, religions, clans.. etc? If these men are cloaked in the guise of Mysticism as Sunnism is cloaked in the guise of following the quran then does that imply that not Mysticism but man is responsible for these ranks of seperation, fabrications and wishful thinking?

                      Mysticism = satan worship.

                      I disagree. I think that is to narrow of an outlook (black and white) by grouping Mysticism as good or bad.

                      From what I am understanding (WIK) mystic's are those seeking direct experience with God, what they do with that after it's occourence is up to them. (Please correct me if I'm wrong). What is wrong with this?

                      pz

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                        darcus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Peace be upon you all

                        I was a follower of the Naqshabandi order. I am thankful to Allah for releasing me from it's grip. It is not a cult or anything, just that when a student surpasses his shaykh in knowledge and travels the path further than the shaykh, then there will always be conflict. I know this from personal experience. My own shaykh stated something which made me leave the order after 3 years. He quite clearly stated that the hadith are to be trusted over the quran because the hadith is a record of what the prophet did, the quran came via 'the angel Gabriel' so is tainted whereas in the Hadith is records of the prophet doing god's commands directly. Now this should have caused a bigger uproar than it did - only I stood up and questioned the logic of the comment, whilst everyone else was enraptured in 'love' for their shaykh and outbursts of "subhan'alla" whether they understood what was said or not, because the shakyh didnt have the 'ability to make mistakes' that shaykhs are all masoom. I was quickly labelled a heretic.

                        About 6 months before this, shaykh Nazim, the head of the order at that time came to Birmingham giving a speech about something or other, I was made responsible to videotape the thing for the Birmingham gathering. All I kept thinking throughout filming him was how evil his eyes looked, they looked as if they were hiding some terrible secret. I raised this with my Shaykh who answered that I was projecting an image of myself on to the shaykh hence the 'evil eyes' were actually my own. I still remember feeling 'left out' of the feeling of the my fellows who showered him with love, who looked at him whilst he slept and commented how peaceful and pure like a baby he looked. I cant believe I wanted a part of this.

                        The shaykh should have foreseen my departure because I felt I was being held back from spiritual development because I had seen and done things that the others only dreamt of. My visions, my trances were always 'too deep' i was told to 'stay by the shore or the sharks will get you'. I did not believe that any spiritual experience should be limited just because the person taking you through the process could not and had not experienced what you had. He was livid saying that I had just read the things I was talking about and making them up to become popular with my fellows. That I had memorised verses of the quran and translated them myself in a totally wrong manner. I incorporated methods and techniques which were wholly complementary, from other orders into my meditations (which I was forbidden from doing). I was actually being picked on for acheiving what I felt was a deep inner peace and knowledge of things that was accessible and open for everyone, if only they tried - it is everyone's right to experience control of oneself, to see things with angel eyes.

                        Anyhow, I digress as usual. My experiences with the Naqshabandi order were profound, I have never been that 'awake' or 'aware' of the universe around me. I learnt a lot, my experiences will never be forgotten.

                        I feel that I was extremely lucky because I tend to trust my inner self, and allow Allah to guide me. I did not take in any of their doctrines, I just used their techniques to fulfill my own desire or spiritual freedom. They will tell you that it is not worship of their shaykh or of the prophet. I tell you it is. From my own experiences and being in their yard so to speak, their behaviour around the shaykh is unspeakable. I love my wife, but I don't pay her the kind of devotion these people were paying the shaykh. No person should have that power over other people, nor ask people to do behave in such a manner because the hadiths justify it, or god has spoken to them directly. Reminds me of when I confronted my shaykh about the 'guiding hand' I felt on my heart at which point he said it was my ego and satan conspiring - it could never be Allah because why would he speak to someone like me. Terrible.

                        Hope my rantings make sense, I type and it pours out. Cant help it.
                        D

                        d

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                          KGB
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Peace Darcus,

                          Very interesting post.

                          Do these Shaykhs really have some sort of powers? How they communicate with God? I have not much knowledge about these sufis, auliyas, qutub because I don't believe in them.

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                            savage_carrot
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Peace Darcus,

                            Awesome story! Praise to the God for guiding you to the truth.

                            Nadia.

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                              KGB
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Peace Muhammad

                              Thanks for the reply.

                              Do you have any personal experiences of witnessing the super natural powers of these Sheikhs? It would be interesting to read any such experiences. I believe Darcus must have some because he was pratically involved with the group.

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                                darcus
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                peace be upon you all.

                                KGB - in regards to the shaykhs having powers, maybe once when their order was seeking the truth rather than attempting to distill it, filter it and then pick and choose what to share. My first experience with the Naqshabandi's was at an old church in Peckham, London. It had been converted into a masjid. Now everyone knows the acoustics of a church hall are excellent. Imagine nearly three thousand people from different parts of the world (their location denoted by the colour of their turban and jubba) all sitting side by side, the lights dimmed and everyone chanting the kalima in unison. I cannot describe the feeling. The sheer power in the words. Recitation of the names of Allah, again in one voice. You can imagine the effect on a teenager looking for a deeper understanding of his position in the universe in relation to everything else. Finding what he thought was a sort of unity of mind, of voice and thought. I was instantly taken.

                                The only power that can be ascribed to the shaykh is that of control of his followers. People pledge allegiance to him and will do everything in their power to please the man in the biggest turban (yes, I was told not to have a turban too big because that would be challenging the shaykh). I have heard many stories about shaykhs and what they are able to do, things like talking to angels, knowing when things will happen ("shaykh Nazim has met Imam Mahdi you know - you better sort yourself out cos the end is nigh").

                                If they communicate with Allah, only He knows. We all at some stage communicate with Allah. Each and every person on this planet I believe speaks and gets 'spoken to' by Allah, we just need to be aware enough to recognise His speech and be open to follow His guidance.

                                M_Mehdi - I agree with what you are saying about not hating the fertiliser just because it stinks. I took much from the Order that I would never have learnt because I do not have access to the information contained within their shaykhs. Information which does not contradict the word of Allah. He has not forbidden me nor ordered me to meditate the way I do - for that is the fallacy of the Naqshabandi's.

                                You are right about how they choose their followers - almost all of the members of our gathering had had some sort of question which was difficult to answer - this question usually led to us being more 'open' to suggestion. When the strength of the follower increases they leave. It is the natural order of things, not up but out.

                                You are correct when you state that the sufi has no need for the supernatural because everything is a part of nature, I still believe this. You are also correct about the danger of living in awe of the journey taken without understanding what you walk on, what you see, where you come from and where you are going. The path of the mystic is truly one of personal experience, hence there really is no need for a shaykh as such.

                                Our gathering no longer exists, hasnt existed for about 4 years. I still see some of the people because they were part of community within which I live. The shaykh who led our gathering is living in the middle east somewhere now, after running away with one his followers. He was married with 4 children by the way. Amazing where his sufism got him.

                                I am not bitter nor angry at the naqshabandi's - rather happy at what they showed me, if only they would embrace the quran rather than the hadith. They keep looking for justification from hadith for what they do - they will find justification for all manner of things - depends how you interpret and depends if you made up the hadith or not. What they cant see is remembering Allah can be done in many different ways - just dont say that the Naqshabandi way is the only true one just because it can be traced to Abu Bakr.

                                When you talk about lightning bolts out of their hands stories - you need look no further - not quite bolts, but sparks - yes. I could teach you how to do this without a wire or any cheating of any sort, although I havent been able or inclined to do it in quite some time. This was one of the reasons why the shaykh didnt like me. There is so much to our own natures that we do not fully understand.

                                I was writing on autopilot again - sorry.

                                be chatting to you all soon.
                                d

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                                  Tay
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  Peace Darcus,

                                  Fascinating posts. Thanks for sharing your insight. You stated,

                                  When you talk about lightning bolts out of their hands stories - you need look no further - not quite bolts, but sparks - yes. I could teach you how to do this without a wire or any cheating of any sort

                                  Are you serious? Please explain.

                                  Thanks,
                                  Tay

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                                    Nural_Amin
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Peace

                                    I always thought that Sufism concentrated on the personal aspects of faith. Ones understanding of GOD, I didn't think that the strong upholding of HADITH and undue authority to Shiekhs was as important but it is clear that these are what constitute most of the SUFI orders.

                                    Mystics and Sufi's in my mind like all groups have hypocrites but I think that there are more within the 'mystics' umbrella. This is simply because

                                    4142-143
                                    The hypocrites seek to deceive GOD, while He is deceiving them; and if they attend to the contact-method, they do so lazily, only to show the people, they do not remember God except very little. They are swaying in-between, neither belonging to this group nor that group. Whoever GOD will misguide, you will not find for him a way.

                                    Mystics tend to be unhappy and can't find the correct way except a few, but the key idea is that there are some that call themselves mystics just to stay away from groups, so that they don't belong anywhere, then they are lost!

                                    Peace

                                    Nural

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                                      KGB
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Peace Darcus,

                                      Thanks for the answer. I hope you keep posting more and more of your personal experiences with these sufis.

                                      Very interesting. I am as much interested as Tay about these sparks. I hope you will explain this to us soon.

                                      Thank you very much.

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                                        naxus
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Peace Bro n Sis in my life i have visit the sufis 2 or 3 times n my last visit was tonight one of my friend take me to his pir who was a mulang from Sehwen Sharief a city where a Sufi namely Shebaz Qalander shah grave is existed for my friend Sehwen sharief is the place where all the decission r taken for humans his mulaung has another idea he told me that Allah is the God but God has givin power to Mohammed to run the universe roll for them Sehwen Sharief was a very scared place the mulung was like an amessader from sehewn sharief in to the city where i am living his followers were smocking hash there my friend who is a very nice chap was very happy with these mulungs for me all of them remined following versus of Quran
                                        28 And from the people are those who Say ?We believe in God and in the Last Day,? but they are not believers.
                                        29 They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves without noticing.
                                        210 In their hearts is a disease, so God increases their disease, and they will have a painful retribution for what they have denied.
                                        it was like all of them were sick n Allah has increase their disease may Allah increase our knowlege peace

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                                          darcus
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          peace be upon you all

                                          naxus - sounds likes you met some chishti sufis. Again, a poisoned order. Much beauty of thought in the early days, excellent meditative techniques marred by power-mad mulangs and pirs who prey on people who are uneducated to a crazy degree - people who learn hoots and whistles just because it is the done thing - not because their dhikr means anything to them.

                                          KGB and others interested in seeing your own bio-energy there are many techniques, all dependent on your powers of observation and visualisation. I have not cultivated and released that much energy since about 1996. I can give you some rough details on how to achieve it, but please remember the extent to which you externalise this force will depend upon your perseverance and patience. I personally see no need in doing it anymore, it was more detrimental than positive, just good for the thrill-factor so to speak. However, here goes

                                          1. Abstain from sexual release.
                                          2. Learn mind-clearing meditative techniques, e.g.
                                            a. count 1 on first exhalation
                                            b. count 2 on second exhalation
                                            c. count 3 on third exhalation
                                            d. count 4 on fourth exhalation
                                            e. repeat a-d
                                            f. remember to think only of the process of breathing and gently remove the thoughts troubling your mind. The technique is designed to clear the mind so that you are totally empty of thought. Usually performing this 3 or 4 times a day in a sitting position, feet planted firmly on the floor in a silent setting for 15 minutes a go is the best start. This section may take a few months depending upon your patience. CLEAR THE MIND.
                                          3. Learn a body awareness meditation, they usually involve visualising the body slowly immersing itself in warm water, causing tingling sensations throughout the body. An excellent book is NEW Energy Ways by Robert Bruce.
                                          4. When you have attained awareness of the external body, you need to learn to 'feel' the ebb and flow of your bio-energy, you will be able to control it from one part of your body to another, a forced explosion through the finger tips usually causes a spark - but beware, it can be painful.

                                          The book by Robert Bruce I mentioned above is full of excellent body awareness techniques even though your task here is not to acheive an out of body experience.

                                          I really have gone off at a tangent - back to the naqshabandi sufis - the mind clarity and body awareness techniques are used quite well, the problem they have is that they want to use these techniques and fit them into their description of reality and our relationship with Allah. As was said earlier, the experiences are always of a personal nature, you need to experience it to find out, it cant really be explained.

                                          Will write more soon.
                                          ta
                                          d

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