What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
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43.64
Lo! Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. This is a right path.
5.72
They surely disbelieve who say Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
Salaam
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Here are some quotes from previous posts of mine in the other thread where I think i stated what my understanding of worship was (root 3-b-d)
I have reread them and I can't see where it is confusing and, what is more, in the original post in this thread here, the poster seems to agree with my own view to a great extent. I supose it is just a matter of not liking a particular word.
So serving does not exhaust worship.
As to 3bd as regards with respect to God, for me it is plain that it is worship. God, is nto a beneficiary of anythign useful we may do. God is our absolute owner and creator, and also our greatest lover if we accept His Mercy.
Let us take dogs, they do worship us, but they do not do any rituals, they are straightforward in expressing their feelings.
I really do not fathom wherefrom anybody got this thing about rituals as synonym of worship.
But the question I insist is that we do serve God, whether we want it or even know or not. The question poses itself within us, if we acknowledge our own condition as beings.
People may have 3ibad servants, which yes, it would be de same root or word, but we cannot feel nor are the same thing towards somebody we serve as to God, even if it is also voluntary, because nobody is God except God, and we obey Him voluntarily when we worship, whereas we would serve him all the same if we did not want to serve Him, but we would not worship Him. So we would be the loosers.
It depends on wht people or each person understsnds by God and by god.
On the other hand, no, God does not need absolutely anythying at ll, neither worship or anything, it is we, people who need to worship God, that is to acknowledge in all truth and humility what we are in respecto to him.
I do not want to start again on the question of whether we serve God or we worship God. We do serve God whether we want it or not, because simply God can use us in whichever way He wants. That is why we worship God, becuse if we "serve" Him it cannot be the same kind of service we may give any other being. God cannot benefit nor suffer from us serving Him or disserving Him. But we do benefit if we serve Him in worship, that is acknowledging what we are with respect to him by our own will.Salaam
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its all depend on how one interpret the word ibada.
in verse 572 both words ibada and shirk appear side by side.
although i agree directly or indirectly everybody doing ? ibada?
a person doing nothing is also doing something what cause other people life moving.
example a patient in coma for months or years is doing nothing directly but indirectly he is becoming a cause of income related with that hospital. charties are getting collected by both fair income and unfair income means. so appearing like everthing is locked whatever way u go there is a black hole that consumes all enerygy matter money.we can do ?ibada? lot of parts of it by serving the duties related with money what we have for finite time. either we do it directly or law of cause of effect will force us to do it indirectly.
we hear news about losses of people in daily routine. LOSS of one is PROFIT for other.
there is a creation behind every destruction.this word ibada could b LOCK of natural LAW of TRUE creator. Its more like attitude instead of rituals prays or tasbee.
MAY God bless us all with knowledge
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Peace Imran.
You say this about me, quoteas per your understanding of salat. in last few threads if i am not wrong you also claimed there are five salat in the system of quran. and you proved it with code 19 science. lol ( i think you are following someone blindly) probably rashad khalifa . its good to follow and respect your leader also obey ur leader ibada ur leader but atleast also serve 17 36.
You are wrong. My mentioning of code 19 about Salat was lighthearted . I used Qoran verses for my understanding.
Also show me where I said Salat is "Ibada"?
Please read my posts about "Aquimi Salat" to double check why your understanding about my views on Salat is wrong.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Imran.
You have also said this, quoteso in this way you also consider this ritual as ?ibada? and you dnt have any different thinking than traditional islam but on the same time u are saying something else ?
I will show you that you are wrong here , by quoting a couple of my old posts from August 2017
1- A reply to brother Rekkd, here, quote
Peace Rekkd.
I believe you are an honest person.You say ,quote
Now back to the topic. The problem I find here is people are stuck and have ceased to move forward. Ok you've abandoned the Hadith books and everything related, Great! Now what? Try as hard as possible to twist and adjust the Quran to fit with modern society AND to alter the crazy verses in the Quran. I was hoping I would find people like me out there, trying to figure it out.My similar statement would be
Now back to the topic. The problem I find is some people are stuck and have ceased to move forward. Ok you've abandoned the Hadith books and everything related, Great! Now what? Try as hard as possible to twist and adjust the Quran if you follow most interpretations of Qoran to fit with modern society BUT we need to challenge the crazy interpretations of verses in the Quran. I was hoping I would find people like me out there, trying to figure it out.like
Uubudu does not mean worship,Rituals/seeking GOD s help has nothing to do with "Uubudu". Uubudu is simply following the "straight path"-Al-Sirat Al-Mustaqueem -see "6151 -153. It is already in our instinct all humans "Fitrata Allah Allati Fatara Al Nas Alaiha"...
Yes brother Uubudu Allah just means Choose the straight path. ( Be a good human/do good works/have good morals...etc).
Anyway,Keep searching brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
2- My post reply on August 22 2017 on one of the threads by brother Makaveli, quote
...
I am going to go off subject here just for few sentences to show that our understanding has got to change if we are sincere about pondering Qoran,here is a basic exampleFor centuries we were told "Uububu Allah" means serve/ worship( I myself leant towards these for a while!). i.e the rituals? Well they are far far away from the truth of Qoran.
If we ponder Qoran we find all people are "Ibad Al-rahman" and there are different types."Wama Khalktu...Illa Li-Yabuduni" Cannot mean serve/ worship GOD, because GOD explains it elsewhere in Qoran as "Sirat Al-Muataquim"
"...Wa Ani Uubuduni, Hada Siratun Muataqueem". I will be short here and get to the meaning of "Sirat Al Muataqueem,which means "right conduct/behaviour/morals" which has to come by our choice from the freedom given by GOD. Remember Shaitan does not give us any freedom,he insists on his way(taghut) .
So GOD is saying I created the Jinn and humans only to give them the freedom of choice .Only to give them the choice of My (GOD s) system "Sirat Al Mustaqueem".The rites?rituals are "the help needed " to succeed. "Iyaaka Naabudu Wa Iyyaka Nastaiinu" clears the two "Naabudu" means "by our right conduct and "Nastaiinu" means by rituals we seek your help because of our love for GOD and His system.
So "Naabudu" has nothing to do with worship or service or rituals in the context of all the verses in QoranGOD willing,I will open a thread to discuss this in detail and many other "misconceptions" that have been fed to us for centuries about GOD s message.
For now I apologise for some off topic here .
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
And of course I am happy to discuss Qoran verses on the subject here amicably.
GOD bless you brother.
Peace. -
Peace All.
Although I discuss most topics , my priority about the message of Qoran is the basic message. The most important topic to discuss is our works and morals. Not rituals or history with all its stories even though they serve as help and lessons.This post of mine , my beliefs for few years now, confirms my stand on the message of Qoran, It is relevant here, quote
I commend all those who strive with Qoran.
However, the deviations are many and the priorities are still not right.We have not got the basics right.
Qoran keeps repeating the "straight path"(our conduct here as humans) and calls it "Wisdom",like the wisdom of Luqman, Abraham.Yes concentrating on the simple message of Qoran . Upholding the "straight path" -like justice, helping others, living as a unit family, being "GOD conscious" and upholding high morals(love, honesty, good thoughts,trust,...) all the qualities required /instructed by GOD( Al-Haqq) that keeps us from being destructive and fighting each other.
These are the basics that we need to highlight and preach . "Straighten up each individual so that the whole community is straight and in harmony" .This clear(no ambiguity whatsoever in it) message is the basic that will set up the agenda of GOD s Deen.
For example the "Muslim" countries have millions of facilities for teaching hadiths and reciting (yes, parroting, sorry to say so) Qoran, but not one institution/facility to ponder/investigate Qoran . It is almost as they are afraid for their people to come across its treasure of knowledge.
So, why should we not turn the so called "Islam" religion upside down to restore its priority( and put as its head the most important pillars
Submission and total loyalty to GOD Alone.
Justice.
Honesty.
Trust.
Help and care.
Well being of the brothers and sisters.
Family/community health (environment,self and social)
Good works and good morals.These must be fundamentals before any of what Muslims call worship rituals. This will turn the Deen into a "straight path".
"Kuntum Khaira Ummatin..."Applied for a few years when the prophet was alive, then Shayateen took over!!!!We have proof of that in Qoran;" Innaka Mayitun Wa Innahum Mayitoon, Thumma Innakum Yawma Alqiyamati Takhtasimoon" i.e you will die(Prophet" and they will die(Those who took over after you-Traditional Islam-) then on the day of judgement you will "Takhtasinmoom"( Argue/disagree/be opposites). Yes the prophet will clearly be against his umma.
For me the questions discussed here are not the priority. They may even be irrelevant if we do not recognise the clear "straight path" from Qoran
My take and comment on this issue.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
My understanding so far is that 3bd does not mean worship. It is obeying God by following Quran - not blind following but with understanding and conviction based on thorough reflection and thinking.
Agreed
About Salat
Salat ritual is a gift from Allah which can be divided into two
parts, physical and spiritual. There is no need to deprive oneself
of either. Bowing has great health benefits for the legs and back,
and in sajdah the brain is lower than the heart giving the brain
additional nourishment. While performing the salat ritual we remain
spiritually in contact (contact prayer) with our creator which is a
very natural component of 3bd.Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of Allah.
Unquestionably, by the remembrance of Allah hearts are assured.Although I discuss most topics , my priority about the message of Qoran is the basic message. The most important topic to discuss is our works and morals. Not rituals or history with all its stories even though they serve as help and lessons.
Agreed
Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west,
but righteousness is one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels,
the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives,
orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask , and for freeing slaves;
establishes prayer and gives zakah; fulfill their promise when they
promise; and are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle.
Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous. -
I want to discuss your claim that there is no prayer connection with GOD from Qoran s point of view only. i.e that "Aquimi Salat" is not instructed by GOD to seek help and connect with him.
Thank you brother GL
I try to understand Quran through the words used in it by our Creator. There is an Arabic word Du'a with root which means to pray/call. When we pray/call our Creator for help we make Du'a as Zakaria did at 338
There did prayed/called Zakaria his Rabb, He said my Rabb gift me from you good progeny, Surely you are listener of prayer/call.
Regarding connection with our Creator we are informed in the Quran
2186
and when my slaves (root 3bd) ask you about me then I am near, I respond the prayer/call of the praying one/caller when he pray to/call me.......5016 .....
.....and we are nearer to him than jugular veinWe keep our connection with Allah by continually following His guidance. When I am watchful of my actions that they are in line with His guidance then I am connecting with my Him.
Brother now your claim is that "Aquimi Salat" is instructed by GOD to seek help and connect with him.
As far as seeking help with As-sabar and Al-salat is concerned, yes I agree as per 245 and 2153
and seek help with the perseverance and Al-salat.....
Oh those who have imaan seek help with the perseverance and Al-salat
Regarding connection with our Creator I have given my understanding above. I will come to my understanding of the meaning of Al-salat in reply to your following question.
So what is Iquami Salat in Qoran?
I have seen so many posts about root d lm ww on this forum. After studying most of those posts and articles and the root meaning, my current understanding is that this root means "to follow closely".
Al-salat to me is "the following" which is "following of God's guidance" as conveyed to us in Quran. The command "Aqim-us-salat" means to establish "the following" which is "God's guidance" given to us in Quran.
If we take a shade of connection in this root then that connection is only meaningful if our actions are as per His guidance. And for that connection we do not have to follow any ritual but to be watchful of our actions in the light of His guidance.
Having said that for now, brother GL my question to you is
what is your understanding of "Aqim-us-salat" and how you do it?
God bless you.
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Those who have believed and whose hearts are assured by the remembrance of Allah.
Unquestionably, by the remembrance of Allah hearts are assured.Thank you Brother hawk99
Lets see what verses 1327-29 convey
( (
and those who hide say why not revealed a sign on him from his Rabb, say surely God let go astray who wishes so, and guides those, who return to Him..those who have imaan and their hearts get satisfied "with the guidance of Allah ( ۗ, of course "with the guidance of Allah" there hearts are satisfied..those who have imaan and do righteous actions, blessedness for them and a good place to return.159
Surely we revealed the Zikar and surely we are to it protectors.159 explains what is Al-zikar. We get satisfaction by doing righteous actions as per "His guidance i.e. Az-zikar".
God bless you
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Similarly with "ibadah" (commonly translated as worship, but is more akin to servitude). When one serves their master, their sayings and actions are done in accordance to their master's will, but in doing so, the actions/sayings eventually come to take precedence from an outside-looking-in perspective, hence not the mindset but the acts become "ibadah", hence a more ritualistic approach. Hence a subtle shift to translations using "worship".
Thank you brother Wakas.
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brother NOVICE opened this thread for knowledge as i can see so instead of debates we should see where we stand in the understanding of Quran.
Thanks brother Imran. I never claim that I have got "the whole truth" rather I am striving to make my understanding in line with Quran. I have been trying for years and it is still going. I guess we all have good intensions.
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43.64
Lo! Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. This is a right path.
5.72
They surely disbelieve who say Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
Salaam
Salaam sister huruf
I respect your understanding but my understanding is that root 3bd does not mean worship. So I guess we leave it here amicably.
God bless you.
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Peace Novice.
I do not agree with those who claim there is no "Salat prayer- Iquami Salat-" in Qoran.
For me the word Salat by itself can mean other than prayer of course, but I have no doubt that "Aquimi Salat" is a "contact prayer ".
1- What is this "contact prayer and where are the verses that define itGOD is defining "Aquimi Salat" as a special "connection " to remember/devote a specific time with...GOD Alone.
2014
"I am God; there is no other god beside Me. You shall Ubud Me alone, and Aquimi Salat to remember Me.Qoran clearly inform us that "Iquami Salat" was a gift from Him in response to Abraham s request
"Rabbi Ijalnui "Muquimi Salat" Wa min Dhurriati, Rabbana Wa Takabbal Duaai"Why?
Simply because it is a food for our soul. among other things it is helping our soul to grow
2945
You shall Utlu/recite... what is revealed to you of the scripture, and Aquimi Salat), for the (this particular) Salat prohibit evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through this Salat) is the most important objective.* God knows everything you do.To connect with GOD to feed your soul and Be more GOD conscious according to my understanding in context with other verses
6158
Are they waiting for the angels to come to them, or your Lord, or some physical manifestations of your Lord? The day this happens, no soul will benefit from believing if it did not believe before that, and did not reap the benefits of belief by leading a righteous life.* Say, "Keep on waiting; we too are waiting.""Kassabat Fi Imaniha Khaira"- Reaped the benefit to your soul .After believing, the soul must grow and develop through Iquami Salat, Sabr, Sawum,...etc
917-10
917
The soul and Him who created it.Then showed it what is evil and what is good.
Successful is one who redeems it.
Failing is one who neglects it.
I will stop for now, but carry on with this topic as the discussion progresses along .
To date I have not seen anyone explain why 56 is in Qoran if it is not a preparation for "Aquimi Salat".
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam sister huruf
I respect your understanding but my understanding is that root 3bd does not mean worship. So I guess we leave it here amicably.
God bless you.
Please see my Reply 5 in this thread. It seems basically your disagreement with me in this question is not abour 3-b-d but rather about the word "worship" in English.
Salaam
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@ Novice
ur way of thinking and study on quran is impressive and open doors for new perceptions and new ideas. keep doing it.@ GL brother i dunno what u get from my post.
let me tell this way once u said something like that
(2+2)+4+4+3+4 = 19 lol and u also claimed five salat isnt it thats what all i say about ur understanding. if i m wrong then tell your new understanding of sala? thanks in advace.
and i was thinking one thing how come 17 rakas turn into 19 ? as far i know the fard rakas of sunni sala is 2 on salat al fajar they added two more sunnas as raka . explain me this one as well olease i know its bit offtopic but it will help us understanding your view point.the way how brother WAKAS, NOVICE and JAFAR present things make a reader easy to investigate and also they put options infront of reader to research for themselves. thats what i like about posters when they give a fruitful discussion instead of focusing on winning losing.
God bless you all
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Lets start with the root 3bd. My understanding so far is that 3bd does not mean worship. It is obeying God by following Quran - not blind following but with understanding and conviction based on thorough reflection and thinking.
Abd, serving..
Everything in this universe serves The Ultimate.
From stars, galaxies, animals, plants, humans, aliens, genies, ghosts, the devil (if those really exist)..
The way they serves varies... -
Abd, serving..
Everything in this universe serves The Ultimate.
From stars, galaxies, animals, plants, humans, aliens, genies, ghosts, the devil (if those really exist)..
The way they serves varies...Thank you brother Jaffer
That is the point I am focusing on. The ritualistic parroting of verses and soulless repetitive actions cannot be Al-salat. The noun Al-Salat means "the following" and verb sala means to follow closely. This is what I have found in Quran.
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Thank you brother Jaffer
That is the point I am focusing on. The ritualistic parroting of verses and soulless repetitive actions cannot be Al-salat. The noun Al-Salat means "the following" and verb sala means to follow closely. This is what I have found in Quran.
SLM Novice,
why are we asked to make "wudu" if this not a contact prayer on 56 ?
O you who believe! When you stand up for the prayer, then wash your faces and your hands till the elbows and wipe your heads and your feet till the ankles. But if you are (in) a state of ceremonial imp then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or has come anyone of you from the toilet or has (had) contact (with) the women and not you find water, then do (with) earth clean, then wipe your faces and your hands with it. Allah (does) not intend to make for you any difficulty but He intends to purify you and to complete His Favor upon you so that you may (be) grateful.
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I do not agree with those who claim there is no "Salat prayer- Iquami Salat-" in Qoran.
I have no problem with your personal belief. This discussion is to find out what Al-salat means as per Quran with an open mind and without any background music.
For me the word Salat by itself can mean other than prayer of course, but I have no doubt that "Aquimi Salat" is a "contact prayer ".
Brother "you have no doubt" means nothing in this discussion unless you have proof of what you say from Quran.
No verse can convey the real meaning if the key term has been translated into an alien meaning.
Brother we can understand verses only if we reject all brainwashing and apply actual meaning of the term As-salat as evident in Quran.1- What is this "contact prayer and where are the verses that define it
Sorry brother you are starting with "what is this contact prayer" but you have not established that Aqimi salat means contact prayer from Quran.
I will split my reply to your long post so we can focus on specifics one by one.
God bless you
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why are we asked to make "wudu" if this not a contact prayer on 56 ?
Salaam kaltun
There is no word "wudu" in 56
We cannot proceed in all directions unless we understand what is "salat" as per Quran. Bear with me if we could continue this discussion in sha'a Allah we will come to verses.