What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
-
@ Novice
ur way of thinking and study on quran is impressive and open doors for new perceptions and new ideas. keep doing it.@ GL brother i dunno what u get from my post.
let me tell this way once u said something like that
(2+2)+4+4+3+4 = 19 lol and u also claimed five salat isnt it thats what all i say about ur understanding. if i m wrong then tell your new understanding of sala? thanks in advace.
and i was thinking one thing how come 17 rakas turn into 19 ? as far i know the fard rakas of sunni sala is 2 on salat al fajar they added two more sunnas as raka . explain me this one as well olease i know its bit offtopic but it will help us understanding your view point.the way how brother WAKAS, NOVICE and JAFAR present things make a reader easy to investigate and also they put options infront of reader to research for themselves. thats what i like about posters when they give a fruitful discussion instead of focusing on winning losing.
God bless you all
-
Lets start with the root 3bd. My understanding so far is that 3bd does not mean worship. It is obeying God by following Quran - not blind following but with understanding and conviction based on thorough reflection and thinking.
Abd, serving..
Everything in this universe serves The Ultimate.
From stars, galaxies, animals, plants, humans, aliens, genies, ghosts, the devil (if those really exist)..
The way they serves varies... -
Abd, serving..
Everything in this universe serves The Ultimate.
From stars, galaxies, animals, plants, humans, aliens, genies, ghosts, the devil (if those really exist)..
The way they serves varies...Thank you brother Jaffer
That is the point I am focusing on. The ritualistic parroting of verses and soulless repetitive actions cannot be Al-salat. The noun Al-Salat means "the following" and verb sala means to follow closely. This is what I have found in Quran.
-
Thank you brother Jaffer
That is the point I am focusing on. The ritualistic parroting of verses and soulless repetitive actions cannot be Al-salat. The noun Al-Salat means "the following" and verb sala means to follow closely. This is what I have found in Quran.
SLM Novice,
why are we asked to make "wudu" if this not a contact prayer on 56 ?
O you who believe! When you stand up for the prayer, then wash your faces and your hands till the elbows and wipe your heads and your feet till the ankles. But if you are (in) a state of ceremonial imp then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or has come anyone of you from the toilet or has (had) contact (with) the women and not you find water, then do (with) earth clean, then wipe your faces and your hands with it. Allah (does) not intend to make for you any difficulty but He intends to purify you and to complete His Favor upon you so that you may (be) grateful.
-
I do not agree with those who claim there is no "Salat prayer- Iquami Salat-" in Qoran.
I have no problem with your personal belief. This discussion is to find out what Al-salat means as per Quran with an open mind and without any background music.
For me the word Salat by itself can mean other than prayer of course, but I have no doubt that "Aquimi Salat" is a "contact prayer ".
Brother "you have no doubt" means nothing in this discussion unless you have proof of what you say from Quran.
No verse can convey the real meaning if the key term has been translated into an alien meaning.
Brother we can understand verses only if we reject all brainwashing and apply actual meaning of the term As-salat as evident in Quran.1- What is this "contact prayer and where are the verses that define it
Sorry brother you are starting with "what is this contact prayer" but you have not established that Aqimi salat means contact prayer from Quran.
I will split my reply to your long post so we can focus on specifics one by one.
God bless you
-
why are we asked to make "wudu" if this not a contact prayer on 56 ?
Salaam kaltun
There is no word "wudu" in 56
We cannot proceed in all directions unless we understand what is "salat" as per Quran. Bear with me if we could continue this discussion in sha'a Allah we will come to verses.
-
Salaam kaltun
There is no word "wudu" in 56
We cannot proceed in all directions unless we understand what is "salat" as per Quran. Bear with me if we could continue this discussion in sha'a Allah we will come to verses.
SLM Novice,
thats why i parantese it , i dont have a name for this "ritual" thats why i use this name...
and if we check this on action ...
1 wash your face
2 was you hand till elbow
3 WIPE your head
4 WIPE your feetsand iam with you In sha Allah we will solve this for ones and for all
btw 3bd ( د not the same as Salat or is it ?
-
2014
"I am God; there is no other god beside Me. You shall Ubud Me alone, and Aquimi Salat to remember Me.Thank you brother for this verse. There are two key terms in it "Aqimi salat and li zikri"
Here purpose of Aqimi salat (establish the following) is li zikri ( for my zikar). While we try to give meaning to "salat" from Quran lets see what zikr means as per 159
Surely we revealed Az-zikar and we to it protectors
Can we agree that here Zikar is God's guidance preserved in Quran till the end time.
Are we commanded to establish "the following" (Aqimi salat) of this zikar?
or
zikar means chanting God's names to get food for our soul.Human get food for their soul in many ways like by listening to music, chanting "aum" etc. These things have placebo effect on human beings. Normally people need a support system to get psychological satisfaction specially in hard times.
Next part follows in sha'a Allah
God bless you.
-
thats why i parantese it , i dont have a name for this "ritual" thats why i use this name...
Be patient brother. We have to go one step at a time to make the discussion meaningful. I can feel your excitement but my experience with discussions is that we go astray and branch off from the basics. Lets see what As-salat means in Quran first.
btw 3bd ( د not the same as Salat or is it ?
3bd ( د
The meaning of this root are to act with heartfelt inclination, with some difficulty in the beginning but beneficial result at the end.d lm ww ( و
The meaning of this root are to follow closely.So an abd will be the one following closely with heartfelt inclination with some difficulty in the beginning but beneficial results at the end.
-
Qoran clearly inform us that "Iquami Salat" was a gift from Him in response to Abraham s request
"Rabbi Ijalnui "Muquimi Salat" Wa min Dhurriati, Rabbana Wa Takabbal Duaai"Why?
Simply because it is a food for our soul. among other things it is helping our soul to growBrother our soul get growth when we give growth to our surrounding.
Have you felt the pleasure after feeding a hungry person or after helping a needy? That pleasure give growth to our soul.
There is no growth of our selves if our surrounding is in misery. We can have pseudo satisfaction by following empty rituals but it does not serve the purpose of revealing the guidance.
While this discussion is going on we can try to help people in need around us to give growth to our souls. That will be a practical demonstration of feeling the pleasure.
-
Peace Imran.
Please bring me the post/s where I claimed this, quote(2+2)+4+4+3+4 = 19 lol and u also claimed five salat isnt it thats what all i say about ur understanding. if i m wrong then tell your new understanding of sala? thanks in advace.
and i was thinking one thing how come 17 rakas turn into 19 ? as far i know the fard rakas of sunni sala is 2 on salat al fajar they added two more sunnas as raka . explain me this one as well olease i know its bit offtopic but it will help us understanding your view point.I claimed that my understanding of Qoran gives 5 "Aquimi Salat" and I gave verses, I never mixed 17 raka with 19?
Like I have shown you numerous times, you are not reading my posts properly.
Please bring what I said exactly(quote it) ,then we can discuss it.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Please see my Reply 5 in this thread. It seems basically your disagreement with me in this question is not abour 3-b-d but rather about the word "worship" in English.
Salaam sister huruf
This is what I have learned regarding 3bd. In Quranic study it would be the one who act as per God's guidance with heartfelt inclination (No compulsion in Deen) with some difficulty in the beginning but beneficial result at the end.
3bd ( د
The meaning of this root are to act with heartfelt inclination, with some difficulty in the beginning but beneficial result at the end. -
Peace Novice.
Salat has different meaning according to the context and subject of the verses with "Salat" in them.
Here are three different examples with three different meanings of the word Salat in them
1-
835
Their SALAT( PRAYER) at the Beyt were no more than a mockery and a means of repelling the people (by crowding them out). Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief.2-
3343
He is the One who-YUSALLI- helps/supports you, together with His angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. He is Most Merciful towards the believers.3-
",,,KULLUN KAD ALIMA SALATAHU WA TASBIHAHU."
?This SALATAHU cannot mean the same as the other two because it includes what birds do. We know birds do not "Aquimi salat".
For instructing the contact prayer ,Qoran uses "Aquimi Salat" like
7320
Your Lord knows that you meditate during two-thirds of the night, or half of it, or one-third of it, and so do some of those who believed with you. God has designed the night and the day, and He knows that you cannot always do this. He has pardoned you. Instead, you shall read what you can of the Quran. He knows that some of you may be ill, others may be traveling in pursuit of God's provisions, and others may be striving in the cause of God. You shall read what you can of it, and AQUIMI SALAT, give the Zakat, and lend God a loan of righteousness. Whatever good you send ahead on behalf of your souls, you will find it at God far better and generously rewarded. And implore God for forgiveness. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.As for "Dhikr" in here
It means Reminder(Qoran is called the dhikr in many verses as you know)
Aquimi Salat Lidhikri is not the same meaning. (To remember/ recall...)- i.e Dhikru Allah-
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salat has different meaning according to the context and subject of the verses with "Salat" in them.
Here are three different examples with three different meanings of the word Salat in them
1-
835
Their SALAT( PRAYER) at the Beyt were no more than a mockery and a means of repelling the people (by crowding them out). Therefore, suffer the retribution for your disbelief.Brother you made salat=prayer but on what basis? Salat is an Arabic word which has a root. The word should reflect meaning of the root it is derived from.
The root d lm ww ( و
The meaning of this root are to follow closely.835
And their following (salat) was nothing but meaningless sounds (root mm kf ww و and pusuit/attention (root d dl y used at 806 so you pursue/give attention to him)
so taste the punishment for you used to hide (the truth).3343
2-
3343
He is the One who-YUSALLI- helps/supports you, together with His angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. He is Most Merciful towards the believers.He who follows you closely and His controllers, to take you out of darkness to the light..........
3-
",,,KULLUN KAD ALIMA SALATAHU WA TASBIHAHU."
?This SALATAHU cannot mean the same as the other two because it includes what birds do. We know birds do not "Aquimi salat".2441
Don't you see whoever is in the heavens and earth strives for Him (acts as per prgram revealed to him) and the bird in rows, everyone knew its salat (what to follow) and its strive and God is the one who has knowledge with what you do.Rest will follows in sha'a Allah
God bless you
-
Peace hawk.
My understanding this Salat is physical.4102 is saying to a group of soldiers at war that it is fine if they shorten their prayer by taking turn praying after the leader always leaving part of the group vigilant/watching over the group doing the physical Salat.
This is made clear in here-4103 ? ..
When you are at peace and secure(war is over) Aquimi Salat at the specific times as per the norm.
It does not make any sense to me otherwise.
Let s see though what others can offer from their understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Novice.
Your explanation of 835 has no meaning , look againAnd their following (salat) was nothing but meaningless sounds (root mm kf ww و and pusuit/attention (root d dl y used at 806 so you pursue/give attention to him)
so taste the punishment for you used to hide (the truth).First following what? you omitted "Inda Al Beyt- all together. So they were only following Inda Al Beyt? What about elsewhere? Can you see the problem brother?
This Beyt is identified elsewhere as "Maquamu Ibrahim" and they took "Mussalla" in it . i.e a Prayer place.
2125
We have rendered the Beyt a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Maquamu Abraham as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail "You shall purify Beyti for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."2226
We appointed Abraham to establish the Beyt "You shall not idolize any other god beside Me, and purify My Beyt for those who visit it, those who live near it, and those who bow and prostrate.Can you see that when you ignored translating "Inda Al Beyt"_ it did not give the coniext of Salat in 835?
You are using "to follow" as a meaning for all the Salat words and trying to fit an idea but it does not fit the context.
Sorry brother. I does not make sense to me .
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Novice.
Your explanation of 835 has no meaning , look againAnd their following (salat) was nothing but meaningless sounds (root mm kf ww و and pusuit/attention (root d dl y used at 806 so you pursue/give attention to him)
so taste the punishment for you used to hide (the truth).First following what? you omitted "Inda Al Beyt- all together.
Thanks brother for pointing out my omission. Let me add indal baiti
And their following (salat) was nothing but meaningless sounds (root mm kf ww و and pusuit/attention (root d dl y used at 806 so you pursue/give attention to him) indal-baiti.
so taste the punishment for you used to hide (the truth).So they were only following Inda Al Beyt? What about elsewhere? Can you see the problem brother?
That is your assumption brother. Verse is saying that their ritual...their salat...their following... indal baiti was meaningless.
This Beyt is identified elsewhere as "Maquamu Ibrahim" and they took "Mussalla" in it . i.e a Prayer place.
2125
We have rendered the Beyt a focal point for the people, and a safe sanctuary. You may use Maquamu Abraham as a prayer house. We commissioned Abraham and Ismail "You shall purify Beyti for those who visit, those who live there, and those who bow and prostrate."Is Al-bait a physical place or can it be taken as a system as per context?
Is Maqame Ibraheem a physical place?
5546
wa liman khafa maqama rabbihi jannatanIs maqama rabbihi a physical place in 5546?
It will keep on creating more questions. So lets stick to the basic question.
How do you take salat=physical prayer and if so then where is the verse in Quran giving details of this physical ritual?
If no verse then how to perform this physical ritual without blindly following elders?
-
Peace Novice.
So you are saying salat in 835 is a ritual prayer or what are you saying here?
Quote
That is your assumption brother. Verse is saying that their ritual...their salat...their following... indal baiti was meaningless.And does that mean Salat devoted to GOD Alone is also meaningless? Why does Qoran instruct to "Aquimi Salat"?
To follow what?You know follow in Arabic is "Ittabihu"!!!
You know brother "Maquam" can be both physical and abstract(system...) The Maquam Abraham is Al Beyt the context of the verses indicate to me it is a physical place and a system
2127
As Abraham raised the foundations of the Beyt, together with Ismail (they prayed) "Our Lord, accept this from us. You are the Hearer, the Omniscient.Just like Masjid can also be a physical place as well as non physical depending on the context and sometimes it holds both meanings, like
2114
Who are more evil than those who boycott God's masjids, where His name is commemorated, and contribute to their desertion? These ought not to enter therein except fearfully. They will suffer in this life humiliation, and will suffer in the Hereafter a terrible retribution.Let me give this brief history from Qoran
The practices of our Deen(including Salat) have been preserved in their basic form since the time of Abraham despite the efforts of corruption and distortion by idol worshipers and disbelievers. Each messenger who came after Abraham purified and followed these practices in accordance with God?s will, making sure that all practices are devoted to God alone.
1435
Recall that Abraham said, "My Lord, make this a peaceful land, and protect me and my children from Nabudu idols.1436
"My Lord, they have misled so many people. As for those who follow me, they belong with me. As for those who disobey me, You are Forgiver, Most Merciful.1437
"Our Lord, I have settled part of my family in this plantless valley, at Your Sacred House. Our Lord, they are to AquimiSalat, so let throngs of people converge upon them, and provide for them all kinds of fruits, that they may be appreciative....
1440
"My Lord, make me one who consistently Muqueem Salat, and also my children. Our Lord, please answer my prayers.Followed down the line
And mention in the scripture Ismail. He was truthful when he made a promise, and he was a messenger prophet. He used to enjoin his family to observe the Salat and theZakat; he was acceptable to his Lord. (1954-55)We inspired Moses and his brother. "Maintain your homes in Egypt for the time being, turn your homes into synagogues, and AQUIMU SALAT . Give good news to the believers.
She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of God. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to AQUIMI SALAT and the Zakat for as long as I live.
Down the line to Mohammed
Muhammad A Follower of Abraham*16123
Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper.Simply that all religious practices, which came to us through Abraham, were intact at the time of Muhammed except what Qoran corrected.
Salat was already established and taught from generation to generation . Actually 835 (Salatuhum Inda Al Beyt stems all the way back to Abraham. But obviously "idol worship/corruption entered it. It was not sincere and devoted to GOD Alone.
Brother you are assuming Sunnis and others invented Salat and you are throwing the bath water with the baby in it.
GOD bless you.
Peace.