What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?

good_logic

Peace All.
I am going to clarify my view on Qoran so that the balance of the message is addressed.
Salat for me is not the priority, I was discussing what Qoran said about Aquimi Salat and my understanding of it.
This is my priority
The number one priority ,the top of any list must be the uniting factor-GOD Alone, our Creator, all of us humans-

Now, GOD places Justice, fairness and good intentions as the most important part of His system. We seem to always concentrate on the trivial matters like Salat, Sawum?. that are personal and can be overlooked by GOD if we have the right intentions.
Among the many books of religions out there, very few deal with the subject of ?justice, fairness and good intentions? i.e the attitude of our mind towards GOD s system to keep the balance for all GOD s creatures.

The most important useful analysis for any human including ?Muslims? is to deal with this utmost priority the attitude of mind towards the one GOD and His just system must be top of the list. Everything else will then follow with GOD s guidance and trust.
And this
On all other sects/religions
I am sure with all our differences ,providing we accept each other as we are, there must be hope that at least we can live in peace with each other.
So what if your fellow human went to a synagogue,or prayed in a church,or went to a temple or did a congregation prayer behind a man or a woman or is even Atheist?
. If they stop their wars,aggression,lording it above each other,fighting each other,hating each other, gossiping, back biting,ridiculing,claiming their religion is the truth?etc
You never know, just may be , now or in 100 years or so? GOD Alone will unite us all?
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

Novice

You say I have not/cannot provide a verse that gives you the details of how to observe the contact prayer.
There is no verse as such because it is already preserved . The consistency of the steps do not vary from generation to the next. generation.( Standing, bowing prostrating)

Thank you brother GL for agreeing that there is no verse in Quran that gives details of how to observe the contact prayer.

And also to agree that steps of ritual prayer are learned from older generations and not from what God revealed in Quran.

God bless you.

good_logic

Thank you brother Novice.
Would you agree with me brother that I cannot follow your reasoning on what you provided so far?

Would you also agree that you are ignoring many verses that you cannot explain about Aquimi Salat. They are in Qoran clear and simple .
So you are contradicting your logic yourself, you want to follow Qoran but ignore some of its verses?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

hawk99

4102

and when you are among them

then uphold you for them As-salah (the following - since war conditions so war strategy as well as God's guidance in such situations to follow)

then let a group from them stand with you (Note not behind you as in ritual prayer)

and let them take their weapons

when they all sajadoo (submit)

then let them be behind you

and let other group come

who did not sallu (attend the instruction which will be what they will be following)

then lat them sallu (attend the instruction)

and let them take their caution and their weapons

those who did kufar wish

had you been negligent of your weapons and your possessions

then they assault you in a single assault

and no blame on you if you had inconvenience from rain

Or you were sick

that you put your weapons down

but take precaution

Surely God has prepared for kafireen a humilating punishment.

Peace good brother, I notice that you left these words untranslated

As-salah
sajadoo
sallu

It's ok, if you are willing to go to such an extent to render a translation
that is plainly designed to circumvent the ritual prayer at the moment.

may Allah bless your intentions.

These are some examples how we "follow closely".

remembering Allah by reflection and application.
Rituals

a. call to prayer

b. ablution

c. physical salat

Purification

a. fasting

b. zakat

Studying Quran

I don't see anything wrong when someone is physically prostating to Allah. Nor does is contradict the Quran.

I agree

Novice

Would you agree with me brother that I cannot follow your reasoning on what you provided so far?

Salaam brother GL

The discussion was to find out "what Aqimis salat" is as per Quran. You view is that it means "ritual prayer to connect with God" if I understood you correctly.

You have agreed that

1- There is no verse in Quran giving details of how to do ritual prayer
2- You learned ritual prayer by following older generations and elders and not from
Quran which is what God revealed for us.

Please do not follow my reasoning but follow what God says

2170

And when it is said to them follow what God has revealed they say nay we follow what we found our elders on.........

3121

And when it is said to them follow what God has revealed they say nay we will follow what we find our elders on .....

Would you also agree that you are ignoring many verses that you cannot explain about Aquimi Salat. They are in Qoran clear and simple .
So you are contradicting your logic yourself, you want to follow Qoran but ignore some of its verses?

Brother I am not ignoring any verses. Once you understand what "salat" means as per its root and read verses in context, you will not see any contradiction. Problem is you want to follow what God revealed (Quran), by following older generations whereas God commands us to follow what he has revealed.

God bless you.

Novice

Peace good brother, I notice that you left these words untranslated

As-salah
sajadoo
sallu

It's ok, if you are willing to go to such an extent to render a translation
that is plainly designed to circumvent the ritual prayer at the moment.

Salaam brother hawk

I left these words untranslated because every one has different definition. My translation as per root words is

Salat = the following
Sajadoo = to submit/acknowledge
sallu = to follow closely

Cicumventing the ritual prayer? How can one circumvent ritual prayer when there is no verse giving details of this ritual in Quran. I am circumventing what older generations enforced on us.

These are some examples how we "follow closely".

remembering Allah by reflection and application.

Agreed.

Rituals

You mean by following elders or past generations.

a. call to prayer

A non Quranic concept.

b. ablution

Another term created by traditionalist.

c. physical salat

For which there is no verse detailing how to do it in the detailed Quran.

Purification

Agreed we must keep purification.

a. fasting

b. zakat

Only in the light of Quran and not as per created and adopted meaning of Quranic words.

Studying Quran

Agreed

God bless you.

hawk99

Thank you for taking time to reply.

Back to the discussion.

I left these words untranslated because every one has different definition. My translation as per root words is

Salat = the following
Sajadoo = to submit/acknowledge
sallu = to follow closely

I was asking for u to insert your definitions in the verse to ascertain
the sensibility of your interpretation and please if possible no brackets &

Cicumventing the ritual prayer? How can one circumvent ritual prayer when there is no verse giving details of this ritual in Quran. I am circumventing what older generations enforced on us.

I agree the ritual salat has been corrupted i.e., there should be no mention of Muhammad.

You mean by following elders or past generations. (ablution)

Here you make a semantic argument nope
do you perform it and call it something else?

Ablution is a ritual from Quran not elders.

(call to prayer) A non Quranic concept.

! What is your understanding of

For which there is no verse detailing how to do it in the detailed Quran. (for physical salat)

Stand, bow and prostrate, seems pretty simple to me.

peace

Novice

I was asking for u to insert your definitions in the verse to ascertain
the sensibility of your interpretation and please if possible no brackets &

Salaam hawk99

4102 has to be read with context. It is regarding war situation and commands has to be in that context.

and when you are among them

then you establish for them "the following"

then let a group from them stand with you

and let them take their weapons

when they all submit/acknowledge

then let them be behind you all

and let other group come

who did not "follow"

then let them "follow" with you

and let them take their caution and their weapons

those who rejected wish

had you been negligent of your weapons and your possessions

then they assault you in a single assault

and no blame on you if you had inconvenience from rain

Or you were sick

that you put your weapons down

but take precaution

Surely God has prepared for kafireen a humiliating punishment.

I agree the ritual salat has been corrupted i.e., there should be no mention of Muhammad.

It is assumed here that Salat=ritual prayer

Ablution is a ritual from Quran not elders.

Which word in 56 = ablution?

! What is your understanding of

(
Oh who have believed, when called for "the following" from time of the gathering then hasten to the guidance of God and leave business that is good for you if you knew

So when "the following" is decided then spread in the land and seek God's bounty and mention God a lot may be you are successful.

Stand, bow and prostrate, seems pretty simple to me.

Where are the details? One stand, one bow, one prostate or different numbers in different prayers? What to say while standing, bowing and prostating?

God bless you

good_logic

Peace Novice.
Here are the verses you ignore at least
1- 56. Why do you do 56?
2- 4101-103
Why do you need to "Uksiru Mina Salat"(4101)?i.e Shorten the Salat. How do you shorten the "following"?
Why do you do the "following" only on prescribed time" (Kitabam Mawkuta&quot?- 4103

And if you already have "followed" before the war, why do you need a special "following" during the war?
*The following" is vague in your translation and you know it. The Arabic is not saying what you claim.
? And many verses we can put to you here that will show you "Aquimi Salat" is
-Something you prepare for.
-Something you call for.
-Something you shorten.
-Something you stand in front of the Lord in "Taqwa" for.
-Something you do Bowing and prostrating in it.
Something you do to communicate with /remember GOD.
-Something you do with a moderate voice. i.e you are saying something while doing Aquimi Salat.
...
That is how you are ignoring verses brother.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Novice

? And many verses we can put to you here that will show you "Aquimi Salat" is
-Something you prepare for.
-Something you call for.
-Something you shorten.
-Something you stand in front of the Lord in "Taqwa" for.
-Something you do Bowing and prostrating in it.
Something you do to communicate with /remember GOD.
-Something you do with a moderate voice. i.e you are saying something while doing Aquimi Salat.

Salaam brother GL

You admitted that there is not a single verse in Quran that gives you details of your something and also that you learn how to do your something by following human beings instead of following what God revealed.

What you are doing with verses is called confirmation bias. It is not learning but blind following of older generations. You can follow a cultural practice but cannot find a verse giving you details of this cultural practice.

God bless you.

Novice

May be it will help understanding salat and sajada.

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7721.0

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7428.0

Salaam

good_logic

Peace Novice.
I have read the links you posted before. I have analysed Salat and Aquimi Salat for years.
The links you provided have struggled like you are doing when you collect all the verses about Salat and Aquimi Salat ,you find that many verses do not make sense with "Commitment", "Follow closely" and make sense with a contact prayer for Aquimi Salat.
like Sujud, Kharru Sujadan...etc. The posters admit that their work is on going and they need to study the subject more. why?
Because they have doubts and cannot explain certain verses and make sense.
Now I am afraid brother you only have two choices

1- Come up with what you think "Aquimi Salat" means ,bring all the verses together and explain them and find the inventor of the present contact prayer to prove it is man made/originated by Man. You must research this properly, because what you have come up with in your posts are just your take without evidence and you are not explaining certain verses properly or making sense with your explanation.

2- Or if you cannot find out, accept that Aquimi Salat has been inspired and taught by GOD to help the believers " 2173" and it is the contact prayer that is well known and preserved.. Believe GOD . Or is GOD lying?

Of course you can also stay with your understanding, but be honest with yourself that you have no evidence about your claim and you cannot explain what is Quimi Salat. Otherwise you would have come up with a verse that has a detailed explanation of what it is yourself like you keep asking me to!

A verse comes to mind "In Yattabiuna Illa Al DHan. In Hum Illa Yakhrusoon".
I can only deduce that you are following your own way, thinking you are following Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

huruf

I would say that the denomination that would cover all as-salaa would be "communion", which is a state or a condition where you become one with something or somebody else, and which may be helped by some physical expression or not. In general, in spiritual matters all are called to commune, but "religions" usually offer some track to put people in the mood for it, if they find it hard to find that track themselves.

Communion is good so it is logical that everybody should be invited to it, and encouraged and given "tips" to benefit from it.

To commune with God, of course there is postration, heart and mind postration and also physical if possible, which helps the mood, because that is what our position respective to God is. Without humility there is no communion.

Salaam

good_logic

Thank you sister huruf
So we have different words for !AquimiSalat" to mean different things for people.
This is exactly what I am saying to brother Novice.
Come up with what "Aquimi Salat" is, prove that the connecting with GOD in a physical prayer is an invention of people.
Collect all the verses on the subject and explain them with your definition to clarify your understanding.Because he is insisting there is no physical prayer.
He could have said, this is his opinion and understanding and left it at that. That is fine.

Or he could have come up with a verse from Qoran that gives you the step by step detail of what is Aquimi Salat according to him like he wants from me ,although he cannot provide one for his interpretation of it!!!!

I suppose brother Novice has created an impossibility to know exactly what Aquimi Salat is since there is no verse in Qoran that describes how to do it step by step for any of the interpretations of it. So how can he even claim anything for it?

GOD bless
Peace

Novice

Salaam Brother GL

The links you provided have struggled like you are doing when you collect all the verses about Salat and Aquimi Salat ,you find that many verses do not make sense with "Commitment", "Follow closely" and make sense with a contact prayer for Aquimi Salat.

I posted these links to show that I am not the only one looking for truth as details of "ritual prayer" are not in Quran and I do not want to follow elders blindly.

Now I am afraid brother you only have two choices

1- Come up with what you think "Aquimi Salat" means ,bring all the verses together and explain them and find the inventor of the present contact prayer to prove it is man made/originated by Man. You must research this properly, because what you have come up with in your posts are just your take without evidence and you are not explaining certain verses properly or making sense with your explanation.

I have presented what I understand from Quran about "aqimis salat". Salat is an Arabic word which has meaning of "following closely". In Quran where ever this term comes we have to look at the context to see what needs to be followed.

2- Or if you cannot find out, accept that Aquimi Salat has been inspired and taught by GOD to help the believers " 2173" and it is the contact prayer that is well known and preserved.. Believe GOD . Or is GOD lying?

A big fat assumption brother. Show me a verse where God taught "Aqimis salat" in Quran. You can jot down bit and pieces from different verses to prove confirmation bias and follow elders to learn ritual prayer.

2173
We made them leaders, they guide with our command and we revealed to them acts of goodness and the "Aqimis salat" and giving Al-zakat and they were to us sevants.

This is your evidence from Quran that God taught "Aqimis salat". They were given commands that include "Aqimis salat" but where did God teach details of "Aqimis salat=ritual prayer?

Of course you can also stay with your understanding, but be honest with yourself that you have no evidence about your claim and you cannot explain what is Quimi Salat. Otherwise you would have come up with a verse that has a detailed explanation of what it is yourself like you keep asking me to!

"Aqimis salat" is not ritual prayer hence no verse giving detail of this ritual. It is a command to follow closely God's guidance as given in Quran.

A verse comes to mind "In Yattabiuna Illa Al DHan. In Hum Illa Yakhrusoon".
I can only deduce that you are following your own way, thinking you are following Qoran.

Actually you have mentioned a very appropriate verse.

6116
And if you follow majority of those on the earth they will take you away from God's Way, they follow nothing but conjecture and they do nothing but guess.

So brother be careful when you follow majority in copying the ritual prayer instead of following what God revealed. And you know there is no verse in Quran giving details of "ritual prayer" )

GOD bless you.

Novice

So we have different words for !AquimiSalat" to mean different things for people.
This is exactly what I am saying to brother Novice.

Thanks brother GL unknowingly you are coming close to the truth. Yes "Aqimis salat" in Quran means the close following of the guidance coming in verses in context of every occurrence of this term. Hence every occurrence of "Aqimis salat" in Quran will have a different set of instructions to follow closely.

Come up with what "Aquimi Salat" is, prove that the connecting with GOD in a physical prayer is an invention of people.

Do I have to prove it, when people are following their elders blindly to do a ritual whereas Quran has not a single verse giving details of this ritual?

Collect all the verses on the subject and explain them with your definition to clarify your understanding.Because he is insisting there is no physical prayer.
He could have said, this is his opinion and understanding and left it at that. That is fine.

Instead of personal opinions see what Quran says. Where does Quran gives detail of a ritual?

Or he could have come up with a verse from Qoran that gives you the step by step detail of what is Aquimi Salat according to him like he wants from me ,although he cannot provide one for his interpretation of it!!!!

"Aqimis salat" is a command to follow God's guidance closely. When it is commanded "do not kill yourself" do we need a step by step detail of how to not kill us?

I suppose brother Novice has created an impossibility to know exactly what Aquimi Salat is since there is no verse in Qoran that describes how to do it step by step for any of the interpretations of it. So how can he even claim anything for it?

"Aqimis salat" is a command in Arabic language so if we know the language we should be able to understand it.

God bless you.

jkhan

Hi all..
I wonder why this Salat topic is complicated to those who have read Quran many a times and compared... Most of you have translated it to perfection... But still contradicting with each other.. If someone claim One of the meaning of Salat is not a physical activity involving uttering words as well then I wonder how he or she understood QURAN... How can you claim that quran has not given way to do Salat.. I find in Quran it says to stand and call God and appload.. Isn't this in Quran...? If one seriously say No.. There is no physical Salat.. Then would you pls explain 2458 what those kids noticed their parents performed and waited till they perform it and to take permission... If it is not physical activity how those innocent kids would guess that their parents had finished Salat?
But As you all aware aquim salat is in 99% of Quran is not physical Salat.... It never matches how much you perceive...
Aquim Salat wa'atuzakat.... Always remind me when any leader of the nation's say on independent days " we will establish morals/ethics and bring forth betterment.. " actually that fits in my view... Just imagine why God used Salat 2 times in chapter 23 first 10 verses... One is physical n one is not..
Peace.. May God bless us...

almarh0m

Peace

My own understanding of aquimis salat is to uphold our commitment to follow Allah's guidance in all our concious hours.
After all, whe are told to aquimis salat for rememberance of Allah. As for those who suggested that we import some christian type of communion, please read 57/4 which says that " Wa huwa ma akum aina ma kuntum" or He is with you whereever you are. Why do you need to commune with something that is already with you always?

For those that claim that ritual prayers renamed salat is from Allah, then they will have to prove it from the Qur'an, chapter and verse where it details the instructions to perform the so called physical ritual salat. The burden of proof is on you and please use Qur'an only sources not conjectures or opinions by self appointed Allah's representative on earth.

Peace

hawk99

Great discussion folks!

Those who want all these details remind me of this

They said, "Call upon your Lord to make clear to us what it is." said,
" says, 'It is a cow which is neither old nor virgin, but median between
that,' so do what you are commanded."

They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us what is her color." He said,
"He says, 'It is a yellow cow, bright in color - pleasing to the observers.' "

He said, "He says, 'It is a cow neither trained to plow the earth nor to irrigate
the field, one free from fault with no spot upon her.' " They said, "Now you have
come with the truth." So they slaughtered her, though they had not the mind to do (it).

I'm sorry but I can't help but do this rotfl

Stand, bow and prostrate

peace

huruf

Peace

My own understanding of aquimis salat is to uphold our commitment to follow Allah's guidance in all our concious hours.
After all, whe are told to aquimis salat for rememberance of Allah. As for those who suggested that we import some christian type of communion, please read 57/4 which says that " Wa huwa ma akum aina ma kuntum" or He is with you whereever you are. Why do you need to commune with something that is already with you always?

For those that claim that ritual prayers renamed salat is from Allah, then they will have to prove it from the Qur'an, chapter and verse where it details the instructions to perform the so called physical ritual salat. The burden of proof is on you and please use Qur'an only sources not conjectures or opinions by self appointed Allah's representative on earth.

Peace

Almarhom "to be with someone" is not the same as to commune with someone. We know that and you know that. It exactly the same as if you told me why remember God , as we are told too often int he coran to forget, if we are with God all the time.

I would say that to commune, aqimi as-salaa is the same as rmeember but more conscious and intense. We do or may remember God very often, to commune consciously is anothe rmatter, there is a question of concentration, mood, and may be other things, at times.

You know that and we all know that.

Salaam

What does the root 3bd (&#1593; &#1576; &#1583;) means as per Quran?

What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?