What does the root 3bd (ع ب د) means as per Quran?
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Peace Novice.
I have read the links you posted before. I have analysed Salat and Aquimi Salat for years.
The links you provided have struggled like you are doing when you collect all the verses about Salat and Aquimi Salat ,you find that many verses do not make sense with "Commitment", "Follow closely" and make sense with a contact prayer for Aquimi Salat.
like Sujud, Kharru Sujadan...etc. The posters admit that their work is on going and they need to study the subject more. why?
Because they have doubts and cannot explain certain verses and make sense.
Now I am afraid brother you only have two choices1- Come up with what you think "Aquimi Salat" means ,bring all the verses together and explain them and find the inventor of the present contact prayer to prove it is man made/originated by Man. You must research this properly, because what you have come up with in your posts are just your take without evidence and you are not explaining certain verses properly or making sense with your explanation.
2- Or if you cannot find out, accept that Aquimi Salat has been inspired and taught by GOD to help the believers " 2173" and it is the contact prayer that is well known and preserved.. Believe GOD . Or is GOD lying?
Of course you can also stay with your understanding, but be honest with yourself that you have no evidence about your claim and you cannot explain what is Quimi Salat. Otherwise you would have come up with a verse that has a detailed explanation of what it is yourself like you keep asking me to!
A verse comes to mind "In Yattabiuna Illa Al DHan. In Hum Illa Yakhrusoon".
I can only deduce that you are following your own way, thinking you are following Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I would say that the denomination that would cover all as-salaa would be "communion", which is a state or a condition where you become one with something or somebody else, and which may be helped by some physical expression or not. In general, in spiritual matters all are called to commune, but "religions" usually offer some track to put people in the mood for it, if they find it hard to find that track themselves.
Communion is good so it is logical that everybody should be invited to it, and encouraged and given "tips" to benefit from it.
To commune with God, of course there is postration, heart and mind postration and also physical if possible, which helps the mood, because that is what our position respective to God is. Without humility there is no communion.
Salaam
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Thank you sister huruf
So we have different words for !AquimiSalat" to mean different things for people.
This is exactly what I am saying to brother Novice.
Come up with what "Aquimi Salat" is, prove that the connecting with GOD in a physical prayer is an invention of people.
Collect all the verses on the subject and explain them with your definition to clarify your understanding.Because he is insisting there is no physical prayer.
He could have said, this is his opinion and understanding and left it at that. That is fine.Or he could have come up with a verse from Qoran that gives you the step by step detail of what is Aquimi Salat according to him like he wants from me ,although he cannot provide one for his interpretation of it!!!!
I suppose brother Novice has created an impossibility to know exactly what Aquimi Salat is since there is no verse in Qoran that describes how to do it step by step for any of the interpretations of it. So how can he even claim anything for it?
GOD bless
Peace -
Salaam Brother GL
The links you provided have struggled like you are doing when you collect all the verses about Salat and Aquimi Salat ,you find that many verses do not make sense with "Commitment", "Follow closely" and make sense with a contact prayer for Aquimi Salat.
I posted these links to show that I am not the only one looking for truth as details of "ritual prayer" are not in Quran and I do not want to follow elders blindly.
Now I am afraid brother you only have two choices
1- Come up with what you think "Aquimi Salat" means ,bring all the verses together and explain them and find the inventor of the present contact prayer to prove it is man made/originated by Man. You must research this properly, because what you have come up with in your posts are just your take without evidence and you are not explaining certain verses properly or making sense with your explanation.
I have presented what I understand from Quran about "aqimis salat". Salat is an Arabic word which has meaning of "following closely". In Quran where ever this term comes we have to look at the context to see what needs to be followed.
2- Or if you cannot find out, accept that Aquimi Salat has been inspired and taught by GOD to help the believers " 2173" and it is the contact prayer that is well known and preserved.. Believe GOD . Or is GOD lying?
A big fat assumption brother. Show me a verse where God taught "Aqimis salat" in Quran. You can jot down bit and pieces from different verses to prove confirmation bias and follow elders to learn ritual prayer.
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We made them leaders, they guide with our command and we revealed to them acts of goodness and the "Aqimis salat" and giving Al-zakat and they were to us sevants.This is your evidence from Quran that God taught "Aqimis salat". They were given commands that include "Aqimis salat" but where did God teach details of "Aqimis salat=ritual prayer?
Of course you can also stay with your understanding, but be honest with yourself that you have no evidence about your claim and you cannot explain what is Quimi Salat. Otherwise you would have come up with a verse that has a detailed explanation of what it is yourself like you keep asking me to!
"Aqimis salat" is not ritual prayer hence no verse giving detail of this ritual. It is a command to follow closely God's guidance as given in Quran.
A verse comes to mind "In Yattabiuna Illa Al DHan. In Hum Illa Yakhrusoon".
I can only deduce that you are following your own way, thinking you are following Qoran.Actually you have mentioned a very appropriate verse.
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And if you follow majority of those on the earth they will take you away from God's Way, they follow nothing but conjecture and they do nothing but guess.So brother be careful when you follow majority in copying the ritual prayer instead of following what God revealed. And you know there is no verse in Quran giving details of "ritual prayer" )
GOD bless you.
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So we have different words for !AquimiSalat" to mean different things for people.
This is exactly what I am saying to brother Novice.Thanks brother GL unknowingly you are coming close to the truth. Yes "Aqimis salat" in Quran means the close following of the guidance coming in verses in context of every occurrence of this term. Hence every occurrence of "Aqimis salat" in Quran will have a different set of instructions to follow closely.
Come up with what "Aquimi Salat" is, prove that the connecting with GOD in a physical prayer is an invention of people.
Do I have to prove it, when people are following their elders blindly to do a ritual whereas Quran has not a single verse giving details of this ritual?
Collect all the verses on the subject and explain them with your definition to clarify your understanding.Because he is insisting there is no physical prayer.
He could have said, this is his opinion and understanding and left it at that. That is fine.Instead of personal opinions see what Quran says. Where does Quran gives detail of a ritual?
Or he could have come up with a verse from Qoran that gives you the step by step detail of what is Aquimi Salat according to him like he wants from me ,although he cannot provide one for his interpretation of it!!!!
"Aqimis salat" is a command to follow God's guidance closely. When it is commanded "do not kill yourself" do we need a step by step detail of how to not kill us?
I suppose brother Novice has created an impossibility to know exactly what Aquimi Salat is since there is no verse in Qoran that describes how to do it step by step for any of the interpretations of it. So how can he even claim anything for it?
"Aqimis salat" is a command in Arabic language so if we know the language we should be able to understand it.
God bless you.
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Hi all..
I wonder why this Salat topic is complicated to those who have read Quran many a times and compared... Most of you have translated it to perfection... But still contradicting with each other.. If someone claim One of the meaning of Salat is not a physical activity involving uttering words as well then I wonder how he or she understood QURAN... How can you claim that quran has not given way to do Salat.. I find in Quran it says to stand and call God and appload.. Isn't this in Quran...? If one seriously say No.. There is no physical Salat.. Then would you pls explain 2458 what those kids noticed their parents performed and waited till they perform it and to take permission... If it is not physical activity how those innocent kids would guess that their parents had finished Salat?
But As you all aware aquim salat is in 99% of Quran is not physical Salat.... It never matches how much you perceive...
Aquim Salat wa'atuzakat.... Always remind me when any leader of the nation's say on independent days " we will establish morals/ethics and bring forth betterment.. " actually that fits in my view... Just imagine why God used Salat 2 times in chapter 23 first 10 verses... One is physical n one is not..
Peace.. May God bless us... -
Peace
My own understanding of aquimis salat is to uphold our commitment to follow Allah's guidance in all our concious hours.
After all, whe are told to aquimis salat for rememberance of Allah. As for those who suggested that we import some christian type of communion, please read 57/4 which says that " Wa huwa ma akum aina ma kuntum" or He is with you whereever you are. Why do you need to commune with something that is already with you always?For those that claim that ritual prayers renamed salat is from Allah, then they will have to prove it from the Qur'an, chapter and verse where it details the instructions to perform the so called physical ritual salat. The burden of proof is on you and please use Qur'an only sources not conjectures or opinions by self appointed Allah's representative on earth.
Peace
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Great discussion folks!
Those who want all these details remind me of this
They said, "Call upon your Lord to make clear to us what it is." said,
" says, 'It is a cow which is neither old nor virgin, but median between
that,' so do what you are commanded."They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us what is her color." He said,
"He says, 'It is a yellow cow, bright in color - pleasing to the observers.' "He said, "He says, 'It is a cow neither trained to plow the earth nor to irrigate
the field, one free from fault with no spot upon her.' " They said, "Now you have
come with the truth." So they slaughtered her, though they had not the mind to do (it).I'm sorry but I can't help but do this rotfl
Stand, bow and prostrate
peace
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Peace
My own understanding of aquimis salat is to uphold our commitment to follow Allah's guidance in all our concious hours.
After all, whe are told to aquimis salat for rememberance of Allah. As for those who suggested that we import some christian type of communion, please read 57/4 which says that " Wa huwa ma akum aina ma kuntum" or He is with you whereever you are. Why do you need to commune with something that is already with you always?For those that claim that ritual prayers renamed salat is from Allah, then they will have to prove it from the Qur'an, chapter and verse where it details the instructions to perform the so called physical ritual salat. The burden of proof is on you and please use Qur'an only sources not conjectures or opinions by self appointed Allah's representative on earth.
Peace
Almarhom "to be with someone" is not the same as to commune with someone. We know that and you know that. It exactly the same as if you told me why remember God , as we are told too often int he coran to forget, if we are with God all the time.
I would say that to commune, aqimi as-salaa is the same as rmeember but more conscious and intense. We do or may remember God very often, to commune consciously is anothe rmatter, there is a question of concentration, mood, and may be other things, at times.
You know that and we all know that.
Salaam
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Where did I say thathe Qur'an speaks of ritual players. Quote me and wuote me right. You are the one who is inventing, inventing that I say
things that a do not say, I did not even use the word prayer. ?Did I?Are you discussing the question of who is right and who is not ?
I am not discussing that, I do not give a damn about who is right or rong. I just gave my understanding of as-salaa, if you do not understand it, no problem. There are many things that many people do not understand and the world continues.
Salaam
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Peace Novice.
You say, quoteI have presented what I understand from Quran about "aqimis salat". Salat is an Arabic word which has meaning of "following closely". In Quran where ever this term comes we have to look at the context to see what needs to be followed.
Yet you cannot come up with the context of 4;101-103, actually your explanation has no context and does not make sense.
You cannot come up with a context of 56 Why 56 if one follows closely?
You cannot come up with a context of why at certain prescribed time?... And so on.Actually ,you could be honest and say I do not really know yet? That will be closer to the truth.
Look brother you say 2173 say "revealed to them...Iquami Salat". What does reveal mean?
Showed with instruction is revealed to me. If GOD reveals something, it means it was clear to them how to Aquimi Salat..Anyway, I can see that you do not want to explain the verses that are causing you problems, nor are you going to investigate who invented/came up with the contact prayer! Your choice.
Thank you anyway for the conversation.Before I close my conversation, please let me say something important and useful to you ,me and all participants.
Everyone says they are searching for the truth. Many are sincerely wanting to find the truth.
That is why it is important to remember FREEDOM OF CHOICE .
We are absolutely free to believe or disbelieve in God and Qoran. It is God's will that we will do freely, Qoran 1829, 2557, 7319, 7437, 7629
God told us in the Qoran that He knows the future and He knows what everyone of us will do, what they will believe, how they behave and what they commit in this life, because He is God who knows the past, present and future.
Because of this freedom we are responsible for our decision on the day of Judgment. We cannot blame our parents, friends, scholars,or GOD even though He knows the outcome or anyone. We can only blame ourselves.There is nothing wrong if one start with a blank peace of paper, as though they know nothing about a ritual prayer, collect all the verses about it and study it deep. One has to be honest and do it justice by searching thoroughly.
So argue/discuss by what it is best from all the verses of Qoran not just few and try to make sense..None of us can change/guide the other. Only GOD can do that.
Likewise , everyone can believe what they want from Qoran, but be true to yourself and check that you search deep for the truth until you have no doubt? Only yourself to blame in the end?
The only benefit here ,in other forums,or with anyone s books/opinions/writings...is to learn from each other, take what is best and respect each other as per Qoran.
I am honest and sincere when I say to you, after reading all your posts about your take on Aquimi Salat, I do not really know what "following closely " is or how I go about doing it. It is vague and does not explain many verses . It is not common sense.May the Lord guide us all .
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Great discussion folks!
Those who want all these details remind me of this
They said, "Call upon your Lord to make clear to us what it is." said,
" says, 'It is a cow which is neither old nor virgin, but median between
that,' so do what you are commanded."They said, "Call upon your Lord to show us what is her color." He said,
"He says, 'It is a yellow cow, bright in color - pleasing to the observers.' "He said, "He says, 'It is a cow neither trained to plow the earth nor to irrigate
the field, one free from fault with no spot upon her.' " They said, "Now you have
come with the truth." So they slaughtered her, though they had not the mind to do (it).I'm sorry but I can't help but do this rotfl
Salaam brother hawk99
Why you started your quote from from 268?
Is it beacue you wanted to establish your point that we are asking for details for salat like people of Musa asked for details of the cow? Lets start from 267 wherein actual command is given
267
And when Musa said to his people Allah commands you that you slaughter a cow....
The command was to slaughter a cow and people knew what Zabaha (slaughter) means in their language. They did not ask how to do the slaughter. They did not give alien meaning to the word "zabaha".
Like "zabaha" (slaughter) "sala" (following closely) is a word that has its meaning basd on its root, but we have to establish a ritual by following our elders blindly and leaving God's revelation behind our backs.
Stand, bow and prostrate
How many times to stand, bow and prostrate in each ritual prayer and what to say in each action? You cannot show a verse in Quran giving you these details. You have to follow your elders blindly to perform ritual prayer but not by following God's revelation.
God bless you.
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Peace Novice.
You say, quoteI have presented what I understand from Quran about "aqimis salat". Salat is an Arabic word which has meaning of "following closely". In Quran where ever this term comes we have to look at the context to see what needs to be followed.
Yet you cannot come up with the context of 4;101-103, actually your explanation has no context and does not make sense.
You cannot come up with a context of 56 Why 56 if one follows closely?
You cannot come up with a context of why at certain prescribed time?... And so on.Actually ,you could be honest and say I do not really know yet? That will be closer to the truth.
Look brother you say 2173 say "revealed to them...Iquami Salat". What does reveal mean?
Showed with instruction is revealed to me. If GOD reveals something, it means it was clear to them how to Aquimi Salat..Anyway, I can see that you do not want to explain the verses that are causing you problems, nor are you going to investigate who invented/came up with the contact prayer! Your choice.
Thank you anyway for the conversation.Before I close my conversation, please let me say something important and useful to you ,me and all participants.
Everyone says they are searching for the truth. Many are sincerely wanting to find the truth.
That is why it is important to remember FREEDOM OF CHOICE .
We are absolutely free to believe or disbelieve in God and Qoran. It is God's will that we will do freely, Qoran 1829, 2557, 7319, 7437, 7629
God told us in the Qoran that He knows the future and He knows what everyone of us will do, what they will believe, how they behave and what they commit in this life, because He is God who knows the past, present and future.
Because of this freedom we are responsible for our decision on the day of Judgment. We cannot blame our parents, friends, scholars,or GOD even though He knows the outcome or anyone. We can only blame ourselves.There is nothing wrong if one start with a blank peace of paper, as though they know nothing about a ritual prayer, collect all the verses about it and study it deep. One has to be honest and do it justice by searching thoroughly.
So argue/discuss by what it is best from all the verses of Qoran not just few and try to make sense..None of us can change/guide the other. Only GOD can do that.
Likewise , everyone can believe what they want from Qoran, but be true to yourself and check that you search deep for the truth until you have no doubt? Only yourself to blame in the end?
The only benefit here ,in other forums,or with anyone s books/opinions/writings...is to learn from each other, take what is best and respect each other as per Qoran.
I am honest and sincere when I say to you, after reading all your posts about your take on Aquimi Salat, I do not really know what "following closely " is or how I go about doing it. It is vague and does not explain many verses . It is not common sense.May the Lord guide us all .
GOD bless you.
Peace.Salaam brother GL
Here is what you started with
I want to discuss your claim that there is no prayer connection with GOD from Qoran s point of view only. i.e that "Aquimi Salat" is not instructed by GOD to seek help and connect with him.
So what is Iquami Salat in Qoran?
GOD bless you.
Peace.My simple question was how you "Aqimis salat" by following a verse that gives details of "contact prayer" instead of following the elders?
Please see my reply to brother hawk99. Once you figure out what "sala" means in Arabic language you will understand what "Aqimis salat" is in Quran.
There is no single verse giving details of "ritual prayer". It can be done by following elders blindly but not what God revealed.
I have never said that everyone reading my understanding must follow it. I am just conveying the meaning of the word "sala" as per its root. Everyone has to do their part to understand and follow
either God's guidance by using their brains
or follow their elders blindly.
God bless you.
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nope your interpretation makes no sense! nope
"then you establish for them "the following". What does that mean? Do they even have
the time during war?"when they all submit/acknowledge" nope makes no sense.
Anyway,
Why you started your quote from from 268?
Is it beacue you wanted to establish your point that we are asking for details for salat like people of Musa asked for details of the cow?
Yes, you got it!
How many times to stand, bow and prostrate in each ritual prayer and what to say in each action? You cannot show a verse in Quran giving you these details. You have to follow your elders blindly to perform ritual prayer but not by following God's revelation.
Here's where we agree, You are free to "follow closely" but both spiritually as well
as physically both are beneficial. There is no rakat system as per Quran, how
many times you stand is up to you except in congregation one follows the leader.
Sometimes I do one rakat (for lack of a better word) sometime two, NO you need
not "follow the elders blindly" create your own system, you make the details,
don't miss out on this wonderful gift from Allah. Stand bow and prostrate and say
what you want to say with help from Quran. Make the physical salat once a day
or five times a day it is up to you. Make it sitting if you have pain issues.
If you miss an entire day there is no penalty.handshake
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Peace Novice.
You say I am following my elders. I say I am following Millat Abraham.
You say contact prayer is not in Qoran, I say collect all the verses about it and you will see why "Aquimi Salat cannot be anything else What is millat Abraham. What are the rites ( Manasikana)?
Read on
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O you who believe, you shall bow, prostrate, wa Ubudu your Lord, and work righteousness, that you may succeed.Abraham Original Messenger of Islam*
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You shall strive for the cause of God as you should strive for His cause. He has chosen you and has placed no hardship on you in practicing your religion - the religion of your father Abraham. He is the one who named you "Muslimeen" originally. Thus, the messenger shall serve as a witness among you, and you shall serve as witnesses among the people. Therefore, you shall AQUIMI SALAT and give the Zakat and hold fast to God; He is your Lord, the best Lord and the best Supporter.Although all messengers preached one and the same message, ``Ubudu God alone,'' Abraham was the first messenger to this the Islam and the believer "Muslim" (212. What is Millat Abraham? We learn from 16123 that all religious duties were revealed through Abraham
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"Our Lord, make us Muslimeen to You, and from our descendants let there be a community of Muslims to You. Teach us the rites of our religion, and redeem us. You are the Redeemer, Most Merciful.This is what I follow brother.
16123
Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham,* the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper..Of course that includes Aquimi Salat.
Just thought I will clarify.
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Dear Novice and almarh....
My intention here in writing the reply to you both is not convince you but to say what I am convinced in Quran about Salat and its one of the meaning...
For me 17110-111 is more than enough as verdict that salat is clear cut.... In 2238 God asks us to guard salah and stand and no other physical postures are mentioned... Imagine God says 4101-103 about Salat... Whatever u understood by it.. Doesn't matter. Just look at the verse 4103 God elaborates 03 postures in it... Standing, sitting down, on your sides... This is right after the completion of salah ... If God can manifestly say these three positions once finished the salat God won't miss out all the postures of salah.. Coz God only gave our posture for Salat.. That is standing... See the order of postures... Once salat is over.. Salat is only standing... So once it is ended those who performed salat will be in Standing position spontaneously .. Even after salat God orders to remember Him but it is not Salat but just remembering... So standing then once tired of standing then sitting then tired move on to sides... That's so natural... If Salat ended in physical sujud..i.e..in a sitting position thrn to say immediately to remember after Salat to STANDING AND SITTING AND ON SIDES... it's pretty weird...
4142 even hypocrites so salat just to show... But here also only given the command as STANDING and no other postures..
Even zakaria while he is doing Salat he was standing... No other postures stated.. Remember don't confuse the meaning of sujud... For me sujud is not at all a physical posture... I don't mind what is your understanding of sujud.. I will prove it if anyone open a new topic on it..
Even God says don't stand in such Masjid.. Here also only posture is standing..
Even one of the familiar verses 6211 Here also the standing...
I have the above explanation just for everyone to think.. But for me 17110 - 111 is more than enough as physical Salat..
How hilarious you guys asking how many times to do rakah...has God explained you how many times to wash your hands and face etc.. If your mom asked you to wash your hands before eating when you were kids.. Would you ask how many times or how I have to wash... It's self perceptions... We know why we wash hands n not the repetition . But God has ordered to wash.. Just wash it.. Does that order not consist one time at least ...??? You like to do it 2 , 3 4 or whatever.... Keep doing... If God asked us to stand.. Do we need to know how many times to stand in Salat ... This is nonsensical at level best...
If there is a beginning there is ending... If you wash your face you have to complete washing it and we can't ask how to complete washing the face.. If god asked us to wash the hand till elbow we can't keep asking which point of elbow.. Oh water went past the elbow.. Oh God water went upto my armpit... Or water went Upto my knees.. Just rubbish.. Don't put youraelf into hardship.. God is so crystal clear.. Just keep it simple... Same way.. Once you making salat you need to complete it and cannot keep doing forever.. If it is Fajr.. You can't keep it doing till sunrise... We are doing salat to admire our load on given and specified time so we go to make it during that time... After all we humble in Salat with great humility and if we feel that's enough thrn end it... That's up to you.. Afterall a true surrenderer will end it with much of submission..
For these God doesn't need to give step by step rules.. As of property division... As of anyone's capabilities they can admire God to be in connection with God... Salt is least if connection but there are many ways to approach God...God has taught us Salat... 2239 ...even in this verse.. We can understand that while riding or walking the act of Salat can be performed without causing any blemishes to it.. Coz the only posture for Salat is standing.. If the salt involves many a complicated positions as we are aware.. Then this verse needs further explanation hoe to do the Salat while riding and walking... That's must.. At least for me..
God bless us all.. -
4101-103.
protecting,helping,gaurding,security all can be attitudes/kinds/parts of sala.
one can perform it in the cause of God by not taking service money etc.in seventh century that sala was need for community when they were under attack (security issues) hence focusing on all parts of sala give us and warn us about duties more than rituals.
modern person is getteing his sala done through CCTV rotfl i rate those people 1400 yrs ago, they faced tough time and its obvious they give duties at those times considered as salas for ch 107 good example set there, as much i think about that chapter the concept of sala make me think more about it. so in this ERA its our duty/responsibilty to check what sala we can perform for our God that will give benefit to the people of God.
although sunni/shia people are using modern technology in their mosques using gps loudspeakers etc.
Quran is empty about the methods of ritual
called namaz(pray) what people take is as sala?103 is clearing that movement of actions are not really important.( may b people used to do in ritualistic pray and it can be dangerous in war ground etc).
REAL thing is they must b sincear in giving duties when community need it like wars, flood, earthquake, tsonami etc.
author try to make people understand what their sala should be but all
nations before us make their rituals their sala just that they dnt have to spend their money and services in cause of God , its pretty easy way to dodge God.God bless you all