Pork is HALAL

jkhan

2267
?O you who have believed, spend from the good things which you have earned and from that which We have produced for you from the earth. And do not aim toward the defective therefrom, spending while you would not take it except with closed eyes. And know that Allah is Free of need and Praiseworthy.?
6825-26
?And they went in the morning with strong intention, thinking that they have power (to prevent the poor taking anything of the fruits therefrom).
But when they saw the (garden), they said "Verily, we have gone astray,"

The above verses are very good exemplary indications that what is the nature of human? They like only the good things to eat or have what earth produces for which no need extra explanation not consume the decayed items.. That?s so natural with how human is created?
God guide people? The Sardar .. the above verses would help your concern and strengthen the evidence in sha allah..

Mahdi_Ibrahim

Nothing in the Quran says maggoty and stinking flesh etc haram...

Threfore, your religion says it is HALAL to drink camel urine, eat shit, maggoty meat etc... rotfl

Those who say "pork only" can drink urine and eat shit .. there is nothing in your Quran that says it is HARAM.. therefore "Do not say about what your lying tongues describe This is halal and this is haram 16116"

https//www.dcclothesline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/drinking-camel-urine-600x358.png

This is the i'tiqad for Quran Alone... and the hadith corroborates well with your interpretation... it is HALAL! rotfl

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#Humans

Say "Produce your witnesses to testify that Allah made this (camel urine, shit, maggoty and stinking meat etc) haram." If they do testify, do not testify with them and do not follow the whims and desires of people who deny Our Signs, and who do not have iman in the Next World and make others equal to their Lord (SHIRK). (6150)

Why don't they research the (interpretation and translation of the) Quran? Don't they realize that if it(s interpretation and translation) was from someone other than Allah/TRUTH (falsehood), they would find many discrepancies in it. (482)

Abaddon

Urine Therapy is actually very healthy. And the quality of urine is based on ones consumption behaviour. Now you can think why camel urine was so special. Excrements are something completely different...

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eclkz586P1c

Brother you are completely lost because of this System and its paradigms. Seek forgivenes and help from the Almighty.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

Think about this... "Which of you is mad? 686"

rotfl

Iyyaka

Salam,

Interesting but it can not be "spoiled meat". You do not need God for that ..

I suggest you three lines of thought

Literal "Pork meat" => The traditional track. Ok you rejected it but it's the most literal understanding even if one wonders why add the word "meat" because the word "pig" would have been enough and no ambiguity possible like that
Allegorical

2-1) "Pork meat" = Fornication (Out of marriage)
It is interesting to note that God is asking us to believe what has been descended before Muhammad and the teaching of Jesus comes after the Torah. But we find 4 prohibited in "acts of the apostles" who have a familiarity with our 4 forbidden except on 1 point "Pork meat" versus Fornication. (See 1520 and 1529)

2-2) "Pork meat" = Devilish words of the devils
In the injeel and in the Koran the pig symbolically represents the devil.
The pig is the one who looks askance instead of looking straight ahead

Peace

Mahdi_Ibrahim

"spoiled meat". You do not need God for that ..

You're saying we can sell maggoty stinking meats?

You are not to eat any carcass; you may give it to a temporary resident within your gates, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. (Deuteronomy 1421)

Anyone who eats from the carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until evening, and anyone who picks up the carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until evening. (Leviticus 1140)

Say "People of the Book (Jews, Christians and Muslims)! you have nothing to stand on until you implement the Torah and the Gospel and what has been sent down to you from your Lord." (Quran 56

Those who say "pork only" can drink urine and eat shit .. there is nothing in your Quran that says it is HARAM.. therefore "Do not say about what your lying tongues describe This is halal and this is haram 16116"

https//www.dcclothesline.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/drinking-camel-urine-600x358.png

This is the i'tiqad for Quran Alone... and the hadith corroborates well with your interpretation... it is HALAL! rotfl

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coprophagia#Humans

Please make the argument with "authority"..

What verse from the Quran that makes haram maggoty stinking meat etc?

I suggest you three lines of thought

I suggest none of the above and verses 2173, 53, 6145 and 16115.

Iyyaka

Salam

Even if you do not want to analyze in depth my assumptions (by my fault - given few arguments) you must know that I prefer the second hypothesisi made in my previous message (Fornication) ; and I will give you my arguments (even in a language, English, that is not natural for me - so sorry in advance for my faults).

Let's start at the beginning. 4 things are forbidden

Category 1 => Carrion and in this category is more detailed (including the smothered animal)
Category 2 => Blood
Category 3 => pork meat
Category 4 => meat dedicated to idols

Then we have one thing in common. As you mentioned all meat was allowed BEFORE the revelation of the Torah (so pork too ..).
Second verse as a whole refers to something that relates to the flesh in the physical sense of the term (which is why I reject my third hypothesis). This is also our second common point.

- - - - Now see our differences and first your arguments

You quote the deuteronomy and the levitic => Very well but the problem is that it falls in the category 1 and not the 3.
Then God already forbids spoiled or smelly meat through category 1. (so I answer your question)
Finally the word "Khinzir" in other verses of the Qur'an is unambiguously translated as "pork" (560 "Say" Shall I inform you of it worse than a punishment from God? angry at them, and made of them apes and PIGS .. &quot

- - - - Now, my arguments for saying "pork meat" = Fornication.

1)God asks us not to practice fornication and adultery

those who preserve their sex,
Except for their wives or what they possess by oath, in which they can not be blamed.

But the word "infamy" (alfawahisha in 733 for example) concerns in the QURAN only 3 categories

adultery
ribba
homosexuality.
But not fornication between 1 man and 1 woman ...Also ?Arabic ZINA ? refers in Quran to adultery.
Acts of the Apostles and Parallel with the Qur'an

Quran(53..) Acts of the apostles (1520&29)
Carrion (strangled among others&#8230 Thins strangled
Blood From blood
Pork meat Fornication
Meat dedicated for idols Pollution of idols

=> Acts of Apostles -1520 "But that they write to them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. "

Term "Constraint" uses

QURAN ".... But if anyone is forced into it, other than by desire or transgression, then God is Forgiving, Merciful. "
versus
QURAN "And in your search for the goods of life here below, do not compel your young girls to prostitution, if they wish to remain chaste. If someone restrains them, then God, after they have been restrained, is Forgiving, Merciful. "

=> Amazing and unique parallel that is not random. We find the notion of constraint (forced) and the fact that God is forgiving, merciful.But it is a matter of forced fornication, and not of adultery, in .

Tainted (6145) "Arabic RIJS)

Why abstain from pork?
God justifies it by the notion of "defilement" in .

The word RIJS appears in the following verses

5 90
6 125
6 145 = pork meat
7 71
9 95
9 125 (2 times)
10 100
22 30 => tainted of idols
33 33

=> The word ? tainted ? refers in these verses to the tainted of the soul/heart and not to the physical tainted of the body.
=> It is reasonable to assume that the 6145 refers to the taint of the soul related to a sin and not to the tainted of the body

Classical Dictionary

As you have underlined in your first messages the pork is so called because "he looked from the outer angles of his eyes" (Lane's lexicon) Applied to a man this may mean having a concupiscent look => sexual connotations or having lying words (not right).

Pork taken as allegory (Cf -> 5 60 quoted above).

We need to know that the Arabs were pragmatic and, like us today, used images of animals to insult or target bad behavior.

meat as human flesh

Quran - "...Would any of you enjoy eating (Arabic Yakula) the flesh (Arabic Lahma) of his dead brother? "
=> Here "Lahma" makes reference to human flesh and it is mentionned in an allegorical meaning

Peace be upon u.

Noon_waalqalami

Salam

Even if you do not want to analyze in depth my assumptions (by my fault - given few arguments) you must know that I prefer the second hypothesisi made in my previous message (Fornication) ...

peace Iyyaka, (welcome) interesting view although talks about context of food not fornication, etc.

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=TEm#(614511)

6145 say not I find in what inspires to me impermissible of on imin/eater yaamuhu/he eats it except that being lifeless or blood of poured forth of or lahma/flesh khinzrin/swine so surely it filthiness or disobedience of dedicate to other than the god in/with it so who forced other than desires and not reverts so indeed lord your forgiver merciful

likewise as was already explained ...

2173, 53, 16115 walahma/and flesh l-khinziri/the swine (cannot be an adjective)

Mahdi_Ibrahim

Let's start at the beginning. 4 things are forbidden

Category 1 => Carrion and in this category is more detailed (including the smothered animal)
Category 2 => Blood
Category 3 => pork meat
Category 4 => meat dedicated to idols

Then we have one thing in common. As you mentioned all meat was allowed BEFORE the revelation of the Torah (so pork too ..).
Second verse as a whole refers to something that relates to the flesh in the physical sense of the term (which is why I reject my third hypothesis). This is also our second common point.

not according to the Quran...

Did Allah forget to mention about "Pork"?

WE MADE HARAM FOR THE JEWS every animal with an undivided hoof, and in respect of cattle and sheep, We made their fat haram for them, except what is attached to their backs or guts or mixed up with bone. That is how We repaid them for their insolence. And WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6146)

• And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Leviticus 117-8 ESV

• And the pig, because it parts the hoof but does not chew the cud, is unclean for you. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch. Deuteronomy 148 ESV

Accordingly

The FOOD (flesh of swine) OF THOSE GIVEN THE BOOK is also halal for you ... anyone who rejects iman (halal foods and flesh of swine), his actions will COME TO NOTHING and in the Next World he will be among the LOSERS. (55)

Allah does not make pork haram in the previous revelations.

They make it haram and Allah says "WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible)"

Therefore

• Show me verses that Allah make pork haram for the Jews? ELSE it is halal to eat fresh meat

• Show me where did Allah say maggoty and stinking meat urine etc haram? ELSE it is halal for the conventional muslims

You are not to eat any carcass; you may give it to a temporary resident within your gates, and he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner. (Deuteronomy 1421)

Anyone who eats from the carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until evening, and anyone who picks up the carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until evening. (Leviticus 1140)

Say "People of the Book (Jews, Christians and Muslims)! you have nothing to stand on until you implement the Torah and the Gospel and what has been sent down to you from your Lord." (Quran 56

Contradiction from previous books

Maggoty stinking meat is both halal and haram
Pork was made haram in their books
Which one? " WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6146)"

From the Quran (confirming function)

Pork was not made haram for the Jews, Allah speaks the truth and not the Torah/Bible
Verses about Pork without consistency and self-contradicted, and against common sense
No verses from the Quran make maggoty and stinking meat urine etc haram

THEREFORE, pork is halal

Your ruling merely Christian's doctrine adopted and practice by Muslim, Christian Indoctrination in the Quran.

Now, my arguments for saying "pork meat" = Fornication.

How does it fit into verses 2173, 53, 6145 and 16115?

https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51402309_2278600089023236_143549893070290944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=2dc7da343d86c41a493a185cc5776aab&oe=5CB5B036

I cannot see the consistency of your argument.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

likewise as was already explained ...

Please explain within its real context, and without the #strawman_fallacy

http//i63.tinypic.com/v6svhh.jpg
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610488.msg421826#msg421826

What does it mean to believe in the Quran?

and what is the interpretation methodology approved by ALLAH in the Quran?

https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/50903680_2280855775464334_5969985166842527744_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=2c20ffc9fdb61a171e9dcd440a1c7236&oe=5CB4D786 https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51446552_2280568462159732_7714549042222465024_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=d3620462ec8546f06a48912fc9e71cf1&oe=5CB8C416

Who is the STRAWMAN?

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610583.0

Your interpretation methodology is Shrik.

Allah does not forgive anything being associated with Him but He forgives whoever He wills for anything other than that. (44

The Arabs say, "We have iman (in the Quran)." Say "You do not have iman (in the Quran)." (4914)

amin

The larger society will decide and come to know which is good/Halal and which is not and this is really the message from Allah. If we have enough of an animal and nothing else to eat then we can try it and there will be no harm, the society will already be shifted to that.
In tropical countries like India, we have enough healthy vegetarian items to choose and nonveg is rare and only preferred to have only in the weakend and that too Pork is not eaten by everyone and only some poor caste people prefer it as its cheaper than other meat. Also the cooking ways differ with climate as with humid areas we tend to cook the meat well to kill harmfull bacteria and add masalas for taste and prevent foul smell.

Iyyaka

not according to the Quran...

Allah does not make pork haram in the previous revelations.

They make it haram and Allah says "WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible)"

Therefore

• Show me verses that Allah make pork haram for the Jews? ELSE it is halal to eat fresh meat

• Show me where did Allah say maggoty and stinking meat urine etc haram? ELSE it is halal for the conventional muslims
Contradiction from previous books

Maggoty stinking meat is both halal and haram
Pork was made haram in their books
Which one? " WE CERTAINLY SPEAK THE TRUTH (not the Torah/Bible). (6146)"

From the Quran (confirming function)

Pork was not made haram for the Jews, Allah speaks the truth and not the Torah/Bible
Verses about Pork without consistency and self-contradicted, and against common sense
No verses from the Quran make maggoty and stinking meat urine etc haram

THEREFORE, pork is halal

Your ruling merely Christian's doctrine adopted and practice by Muslim, Christian Indoctrination in the Quran.

How does it fit into verses 2173, 53, 6145 and 16115?

https//scontent.fkul1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/51402309_2278600089023236_143549893070290944_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fkul1-1.fna&oh=2dc7da343d86c41a493a185cc5776aab&oe=5CB5B036

I cannot see the consistency of your argument.

Hi Bro,
Sorry if you don't see consistency of my argument and you only focus on your arguments.
I feel i will repeat again and again Quranic argument and waste my time

So i let my message for others and it is my opinion.

God knows better and you know perhaps that certain signs have diff?rents meaning.

But it is ok to not eat bad meats or to do not fornifcation or to not follow lies => i think we are agree with these 3 guidelines and it is the most important

So peace Bro.

Iyyaka

peace Iyyaka, (welcome) interesting view although talks about context of food not fornication, etc.

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=TEm#(614511)

6145 say not I find in what inspires to me impermissible of on imin/eater yaamuhu/he eats it except that being lifeless or blood of poured forth of or lahma/flesh khinzrin/swine so surely it filthiness or disobedience of dedicate to other than the god in/with it so who forced other than desires and not reverts so indeed lord your forgiver merciful

likewise as was already explained ...

2173, 53, 16115 walahma/and flesh l-khinziri/the swine (cannot be an adjective)

Salam Bro and thank you for your welcome

For me the context is about Lham (with blood) not necessarily food.

Why God need to specifiy "Lham" with "Pork" (Yes as a name) ? Nothing is by accident in the quran. By using only the word "Porck" it will remove ANY ambiguity ? It was Always Strange for me..
Do you have a quranic answer or by evidence?

You can remark that God in the quran use the same argument that we can find in acts of apostes that's why i make the parallel and i think using 4 categories are not a random but a sign.
=> Quran confirms here this aspect of ancient revelation. (And sometimes not). Quran
=> There are, however, ordinances which God maintains because they are before the people of Israel (4 universal categories)

You can remark also that circumcision (as it was the main debate into this chapter of "acts of the apostles&quot is not in the quran too.

God wants ease for us and not difficult.

Peace be upon you bro

Mahdi_Ibrahim

The larger society will decide and come to know which is good/Halal and which is not and this is really the message from Allah. If we have enough of an animal and nothing else to eat then we can try it and there will be no harm, the society will already be shifted to that.
In tropical countries like India, we have enough healthy vegetarian items to choose and nonveg is rare and only preferred to have only in the weakend and that too Pork is not eaten by everyone and only some poor caste people prefer it as its cheaper than other meat. Also the cooking ways differ with climate as with humid areas we tend to cook the meat well to kill harmfull bacteria and add masalas for taste and prevent foul smell.

That does not prove what was made halal or haram by Allah. Irrelevant.

and the majority will end in Hell, certainly.

On the Day He says to Hell, "Are you full?" it will ask, "Are there no more to come?" (5030)

Those who have iman and do right/natural actions, and how few they are! (3824)

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610567.0

about less than 100 peoples out of almost 8 billion peoples.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

Hi Bro,
Sorry if you don't see consistency of my argument and you only focus on your arguments.
I feel i will repeat again and again Quranic argument and waste my time

So i let my message for others and it is my opinion.

God knows better and you know perhaps that certain signs have diff�rents meaning.

But it is ok to not eat bad meats or to do not fornifcation or to not follow lies => i think we are agree with these 3 guidelines and it is the most important

So peace Bro.

Try replacing the words (arguments) to verses 2173, 53, 6145 and 16115 and you'll understand what I mean.

Iyyaka

peace Iyyaka, (welcome) interesting view although talks about context of food not fornication, etc.

http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=TEm#(614511)

6145 say not I find in what inspires to me impermissible of on imin/eater yaamuhu/he eats it except that being lifeless or blood of poured forth of or lahma/flesh khinzrin/swine so surely it filthiness or disobedience of dedicate to other than the god in/with it so who forced other than desires and not reverts so indeed lord your forgiver merciful

likewise as was already explained ...

2173, 53, 16115 walahma/and flesh l-khinziri/the swine (cannot be an adjective)

Hi again,
you d'ont need to answer my first question about why using Lahm with pork coz God uses "flesh of birds" or "flesh from the sea"...
Sorry

amin

That does not prove what was made halal or haram by Allah. Irrelevant.

and the majority will end in Hell, certainly.

On the Day He says to Hell, "Are you full?" it will ask, "Are there no more to come?" (5030)

Those who have iman and do right/natural actions, and how few they are! (3824)

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610567.0

about less than 100 peoples out of almost 8 billion peoples.

Theres Halal and Haram in each and everything, we do Halal if our minds are pure and truthfull with his blessings.

Mahdi_Ibrahim

Theres Halal and Haram in each and everything

Who says it's not?

My point the majority is not the evidence for what is halal or haram...

it is Argumentum ad populum "is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it, often concisely encapsulated as "If many believe so, it is so.""

we do Halal if our minds are pure and truthfull with his blessings.

What is "PURE"?

Define PURE...

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and peace, all group

I'm having trouble (pardon the pun) digesting 33 pages of this post.

Some food for thought

2259 Or the one who passed through a town which had become ruins. He said "How can God possibly revive this after it had died?" So God put him to death for one hundred calendar years, then He resurrected him. He said "How long have you stayed here?" He said "I have stayed here a day or part of a day." He said "No, you have stayed here for one hundred calendar years! Look at your food and drink, they have not changed, but look at your donkey! And We will make you a sign for the people; and look at the bones how We let them arise, then We cover them with flesh." So when it was clear to him what happened, he said "I now know that God is capable of all things!"

Bones and fat are distinct from flesh/meat. I won't rehash the guidance distinguishing fat from flesh.

2267 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.

It doesn't much matter if there is a scientific or health reason to abstain from eating the flesh of swine or not.

If alcohol is forbidden to believers, is Kosher wine halal? If shellfish are forbidden in the Old Testament but expressly allowed in the Qur'an, how is this reconciled? Does the Qur'an expressly say that feces is forbidden to eat??? Seriously, the Qur'an is a guide for the deen and not a cookbook.

569 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.

If the above refer to religion and not ethnicity, I don't think that diet is of primary concern. This being said, diet can be a rite (which we are to fulfill and not turn into a matter of dispute).

I'm interested in developing peccary as a meat alternative to pork.

May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

tutti_frutti

Hello everyone

Pork/swine is forbidden and it is clear.

The reason why pork is forbidden (and an answer to “theory of evolution” below)

If you google it, you will see that pigs and humans share many physical similarities such as same skin, protruding noses, teeth, digestive system, body weight etc Pigs also share many diseases with humans etc

It is as if humans and pigs come from one source yeah?

Well pigs and monkeys/apes were created from humans ... The God tells us clearly in surah 5, verse 60 that He made them from humans ... The God made pigs from humans and that is why pork is forbidden ...

and now to crush the theory of evolution

Please note that there are no adjectives before the word monkeys/apes in verse 60 of surah 5. The God does not quality the pigs and apes of anything but just tells us He made pigss and apes from humans

However
In surah 7 verse 166 and surah 2 verses 65-66 , The God says that he told the transgressors against the sabbath “be despicable apes” and He made them a deterrent punishment for the those with them and succeeding generations. Please notice how he used the adjective “despicable” These are what the scientists claim to be human “ancestors”. Notice the adjective “despicable” before the word monkeys/apes

There is no Darwin evolution, the ape common ancestors scientists claim are actually transgressors against the sabbath. Also these apes scientists call common ancestor were all found in Africa...and egypt is in Africa ...

Also, regarding the people of Noah, we know who they were. The God tells us in surah 25, verse 37 that He left them as a sign for humankind.

And, yes they are here and we found them.

Please see surah 7, verse 69 where Hud tells his people that The God increased them (people of Hud) in creation vis a vis Noah’s people.

Noah’s people are what we call neanderthals/Denisovans

I think The God left fossils for us as signs and proofs

The Quran is from The God so please spread the word and invite people to His path, as The God says in surah 41 verse 33

peace