Issue with Salat/ prayer
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Salaam Sarah
This is my humble understanding at present from Quran
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Salat means to follow closely so I try to understand what commands are given before the command of "aqims salat" in Quran, and try to understand what needs to be followed in my life.
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There is no single verse in Quran giving us detail of performing "ritual prayer".
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In the matter of "Deen" we are supposed to follow what God has revealed and not others or our elders
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And when it is said to them follow what Allah has revealed they say, nay we follow what we found our elders on........
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And when it is said to them follow what Allah has revealed they say nay we follow what we found our elders on....
I have stopped doing "ritual prayer" in the light of above facts. I do not want to be among that majority, who do not believe in God unless they attach partner to Him
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And majority of them do not believe in Allah except for they are "Mushrikoon".
In my humble understanding a "mushrik" is one who takes other's commands to follow, as compared to Allah's commands.
God bless you.
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wassalam Novice,
so if you follow closely does that mean you read Qur'an 3 times a day? Because if salat doesn't mean prayer but following closely and there are salat fajr, wustah and isha, that means we have to read from the Quran 3 times a day?
A momin is in the state of salat all the times when he/she is following God's guidance as preserved for us in Quran. We can study Quran as many time as we desire but idea is to follow it in all our decisions, to best of our ability.
This topic has been discussed many times on this forum. e.g.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9765.0
Here is a link for Brother wakas's article for reflection
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
God bless you
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peace,
You have to do what you think is right based on your understanding at the time, whilst continuing to study, and evolve your practice as your knowledge increases etc.
My personal understanding is here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htmNote that some make the claim that "salat" is "following closely" ONLY without any regular/timed component but this is patently false as per Quran (e.g. 2238-239, 4101, 4103, 5106, 6210).*
In order to know what to apply/follow one must read/study the guidebook. Quite simply understanding and application go hand in hand. One is related to the other, and that is why (in my opinion) The Quran has taken a simple yet effective approach, see above article.
*Reference
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran_on_salat.htm -
Note that some make the claim that "salat" is "following closely" ONLY without any regular/timed component but this is patently false as per Quran (e.g. 2238-239, 4101, 4103, 5106, 6210).*
Salaam wakas
You have done a great job in writing your article about salat. We all strive to increase our understanding of Quran. I would love to learn and improve my understanding of salat.
I would really appreciate if you could explain your understanding of "regular/timed component" of the Quranic term "As-salat". Your article just mentions it without giving any explanation.
Regards
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peace,
I would really appreciate if you could explain your understanding of "regular/timed component" of the Quranic term "As-salat". Your article just mentions it without giving any explanation.
Quote from article
To gain a better understanding of The System/Obligation, it is clear a better understanding of al quran would be required. That is why a regular/timed salat is given. In this regular/timed salat, reading / reflection / oration of al quran is prescribed. This can be done alone or in a group/community setting.
Verses linking slw to al quran 243-45, 4103, 512-13, 7169-170, 82-3, 1958-59, 2945, 312-7, 3333-34, 1778-79, 731-4, 7320.
the salat should be done during/close to the morning & evening twilight times (i.e. a minimum of 2x per day)
When one undertakes this regular/timed salat, one should follow the specific guidelines given, e.g be clean , clear mind , moderate tone (although this may only apply when in groups due to the context of this verse) etc.
This regular/timed salat is only obligatory upon the mumin (believers/faithful/trustful), see 4103. Mumin is different to muslim. This is a very important point to consider.......
.......This makes sense because it is only the mumin (believers/faithful/trustful) who are upholding the scripture. For them, to uphold/maintain the going/turning towards (i.e. link/bond) will be more specific and thus directly related to what the scripture contains, hence reading of it regularly. In other words knowing what the bond entails goes hand in hand with its application.
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Peace Sarah.
I know I conversed on "Salat" many times. But I wonder where does the contact prayer originate from?To date no one has answered this question and came up with a human origin. They claim Zoroastrians, Persians?.Or even before that time but with no evidence. If someone has evidence please show us?
I have no doubt that what some call a "ritual" has not been invented by man.
Wrongly performed, abused and taken lightly by man ,then yes I agree.First, according to my understanding from Qoran
Here is a clue to why "salat"The soul and Him who created it. Then showed it what is evil and what is good. Successful is one who redeems it. Failing is one who neglects it.
Then there is
You shall Utlu/recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and Aquimi Salat, for the Salat prohibits evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through Salat) is the most important objective. God knows everything you do.Taught by God to Abraham and passed down through the generations.
But of course that is my understanding!
Sorry there is more?
All that was asked of them was to Ubudu God, devoting the deen absolutely to Him alone, "wa Uquimu Salat", and give Zakat Such is the perfect deen.It is free, beneficial, healthy.. Dedicated to GOD Alone and done with a pure intention and heart, it is one of the best things that will benefit humans and cement their relationship with their creator. It stops corruption, bad deeds, bad morals, greed , humbles the person and cleanses the body and soul. One of the best nourishment to our souls.
Happy salat ? If one wishes to do it.
One may say where is the verse/s that tells you exactly all the steps of how to do it?
Qoran has not left no inexplicable things . How much more details do we need for something as consistently preserved as salat?
Do we need to know the details of how to eat and drink, do other things that we learn by observation and see regularly from others?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Sarah.
I know I conversed on "Salat" many times. But I wonder where does the contact prayer originate from?To date no one has answered this question and came up with a human origin. They claim Zoroastrians, Persians?.Or even before that time but with no evidence. If someone has evidence please show us?
the method of sunni/shai pray is the somewhat same method how everybody else pray with some different touch of tradition/s.
sunni shia copied their method from jews.
mistakenly sunni/shia using word SALAT for pray although they should use DUA.
now see and compare all those things and their origin.
prostration = ( lord of land ) king/empror
people used to get it done from public. as a ritual of accepting highness.bow and kneel = same people get it done on different occassion making a master happy.
slowly slowly generation after generation tradition after tradition. give shapes to all those rituals at one time kings are not more controlleable.
lets introduce diety for worship.
new package ( sacrifices) as well as phyical gymnastics
give lamb to God when god finished eating scholar should take lamb home now lol.make sure everybodys method is different or unique from others.
example its a tradition when ever any nation want a quick pray they raise their both hands. in old times when they beg from kings they raise their hands like this. pray of beg. pr
even at this age in third world countries see how people are reacting towards landlords they feel owned by their masters/lords and when theybstand infront of them their hands are on their belly like a traditional sunni prayer.
its all sound logical if done for human. these things can only make human happy.
it must b a difference between Human and God ?does God require our gymnastic or does he require we sujood(submit) him in our hearts thats whats sounds more logical becoz he can feel and see the hearts. so bowing down is not a cup of tea for God.
human king is unable to see inside hearts thats why satisfying his ego he force people to prostrate him physically. if someone say no just kill him. fear factor installed.
these scholars of sunni shia still think themsleves as kings of society so when u prostrate behind them after that they will get lot of things done from you. and u cant say NO. lol specially they wil say u to bring food for them so that God get happy lol. hahaha
brother Gl b confident on your God.
a logical mind cant make negetive ideas about universal God. -
Brother Imran.
The spiritual and the physical go hand in hand.
GOD gives us an instruction to "wash before Aquimi Salat" in 56 is that not spiritual and physical?Is that not a ritual/ Since it does not ask us to clean the parts that need it most -like under the arms, down below etc.-?
Is this not a question of "hear and obey" instruction?Our logic and GOD s trial of our convictions are not compatible. Ego stands in the way.
But we are free to do or not to do.
More important things than Salat are our deeds and intention. That I agree with anybody on.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
when we want to see community we usually take shower isnt it?
when we cut hairs we do it for ourselves.
when we eat we do it for ourselves.
when we do exercise we do it for us.may b someone doing exercise and praying at same time give a shape to tradition called namaz. no harm in it.
its due to a reason there is no method of ritual called namaz.(in quran)
but yeh quran suggest (momins) only to establish their salah.(establishing sala & reading namaz) two different sets of things.God just guiding us what to do when go for community salah its for our own good to take shower and hygiene things because same thing mother and father said to get ready before we see any community.
all methods are very normal.
example oh who you beleive, wear nice/clean cloth before establishing your community salah. so we cannot say cloth are procedure for salah but its a requirement for community. if you go naked in community God will defo advise you to wear cloths.
try understand abolution in that way. author is telling us cleaning your body water is best thing. if no water then sand/soil etc.
all communities take shower as a ritual almost everyday. its also a part of duty to take care urselves. another example god can advise before u go community sala make sure eat something.
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Oh and another thing to go with my earlier post.
There is a connection between "Salat" and purifying /feeding your soul? It has nothing to do with GOD s needs as GOD does not need anything .
Whatever you think salat is , make sure you are certain, because a person" yatazakka" with salat!!!!
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No soul can carry the sins of another soul. If a soul that is loaded with sins implores another to bear part of its load, no other soul can carry any part of it, even if they were related. The only people to heed your warnings are those who reverence their Lord, even when alone in their privacy, and observe the Salat. Whoever purifies his soul, does so for his own good. To God is the final destiny.3529
Surely, those who recite the book of God, observe the Salat, and from our provisions to them they spend - secretly and publicly - are engaged in an investment that never loses.What this thread and other threads about salat have shown is some believe in a " salat" as a contact prayer and some do not!!!!!!! Modst of what needs to be said have been said about it.
For me the preparation and timing of "Aquimi Salat" for other meanings do not work but a "contact prayer" consolidates them.
While I agree other verses with "Salat" in them can give other meanings to it.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Peace Imran.
Taking a shower and 56 are two different things.
56 Only gives us 4 things to do Face, arms, wipe hair( not wash!) and feet.
These are not what showering is. In fact if you only do these first thing in the morning for example, you do not get cleaned up properly.
It is not about cleaning ourselves it is about a specific instruction of getting ready for "Aquimi Salat" only.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
peace GL,
To date no one has answered this question and came up with a human origin. They claim Zoroastrians, Persians?.Or even before that time but with no evidence. If someone has evidence please show us?
I think it would be very difficult (impossible?) to find evidence such as the first person/group admitting in some preserved manuscript that they invented prayer. If one believes in a deity it would be common/natural to petition/praise it etc, no-one is disputing that.
Similarities of traditional prayer ritual to other religions, e.g. zoroastrianism has been discussed many times on the forum.
You shall Utlu/recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and Aquimi Salat, for the Salat prohibits evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through Salat) is the most important objective. God knows everything you do.
I prefer a more accurate translation
You shall Utlu/recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and Aquimi Salat, surely* the Salat forbids** from/concerning the evil and the vice and/but surely the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do*indicates certainty of outcome
**requires relay of information, i.e. salat relays informationOne may say where is the verse/s that tells you exactly all the steps of how to do it?
Qoran has not left no inexplicable things . How much more details do we need for something as consistently preserved as salat?
Do we need to know the details of how to eat and drink, do other things that we learn by observation and see regularly from others?Difference between salat and eat/drink is that the former is related to salvation, thus important to elucidate
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran_clear_complete_detailed_explained.htm -
@ GL
shower is covering all things ( read the verse full).incase u are unable to take shower then atleast do these 4 things.but if u intercourse then better take shower.just see around you when people reached home from work they wash their hands and faces.
or when we start a community eating we also wash ourselves in washrooms.in cases like 7th century it was advisable to wash/wipe feets as well.even at this age people wash their feet when they takeoff their shoes. some people have nasty smell in their feet so God is telling them all adviseable things before they get embarrased by somebody/community.
and water/shampoo/soap/sand/soil are mediums for cleanings.
actually if u see the end of the verse its a advice for hygiene purpose. god like people who keep themsleves clean.
intresting thing to note when imp terms of quran like ?sala? mention people tend to care about things related with that concept. which is showing us how important hygiene plays a role in our lives. on other words its out duty to keep our body neat and clean and give our body a proper care.(kind of sala)
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Peace wakas.
You say, quote 1
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I think it would be very difficult (impossible?) to find evidence such as the first person/group admitting in some preserved manuscript that they invented prayer. If one believes in a deity it would be common/natural to petition/praise it etc, no-one is disputing that.
My answer
Still ,No history books have ever claimed its origin as man made. I have not come across any source that claimed its origin except Qoran. In here I am talking about "Aquimi Salat "not how you or I understand it to be.
Of course I happen to understand it as the clear contact prayer.
Do you mean no one is disputing a contact prayer to a deity?Yes I have read up everything I am aware of about Salat in this forum, including your take/issues on surah 9 with comparison to surah 8.
You also say, quote 2
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I prefer a more accurate translation
You shall Utlu/recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and Aquimi Salat, surely* the Salat forbids** from/concerning the evil and the vice and/but surely the remembrance of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.My answer.
"From" doing can also mean stopping something as if it was forbidden. is also implied in my translation by forbids such and such...
Also the rememberance of GOD is connected to Aquimi Salat as per 2014
...Aquimi Salat for my rememberence.
Hence the translation I provided (through Salat),in my opinion which agrees in context.As for how clear it is to know what is the contact prayer ,everyone doing it is consistent with the format even non Muslims who do it (like Jews).
Anyone seeing someone doing the contact prayer will be able to recognise it like you recognise other instinctly taught things.
Thank you for your queries.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
To gain a better understanding of The System/Obligation, it is clear a better understanding of al quran would be required. That is why a regular/timed salat is given. In this regular/timed salat, reading / reflection / oration of al quran is prescribed. This can be done alone or in a group/community setting.
Thanks wakas
What I understand from above is that salat is not sunni/shia traditional ritual prayer. It is reading/reflecting/oration of Quran at two times of the day.
If this is what you meant in your article then I totally agree with it.
This regular/timed salat is only obligatory upon the mumin (believers/faithful/trustful), see 4103. Mumin is different to muslim. This is a very important point to consider.......
.......This makes sense because it is only the mumin (believers/faithful/trustful) who are upholding the scripture. For them, to uphold/maintain the going/turning towards (i.e. link/bond) will be more specific and thus directly related to what the scripture contains, hence reading of it regularly. In other words knowing what the bond entails goes hand in hand with its application.
That is also what I concluded from Quran and what you said makes sense. Your article about salat actually clarified many points for me.
God bless you.
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I have no doubt that what some call a "ritual" has not been invented by man.
Salaam GL
You have no doubt does not mean it is truth. Where is a detailed verse in Quran showing how to perform this ritual? In the absence of detailed clear instructions it cannot be a command from God in Quran.
Wrongly performed, abused and taken lightly by man ,then yes I agree.
It in self is the proof that this ritual was evolved otherwise it would have a unified procedure for every Quran follower.
First, according to my understanding from Qoran
Here is a clue to why "salat"The soul and Him who created it. Then showed it what is evil and what is good. Successful is one who redeems it. Failing is one who neglects it.
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(and nafs is a witness that it has been made well
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Then it has been given the ability to disintegrate (root fa-ja-ra means to disintegrate) itself or get protected.
Please think, the distinction of good or bad is not built in our nafs but it comes from God in the form of His guidance as told in 238238 ........so when guidance for sure come to you from me then who follows my guidance will have no fear on them and they will not grieve.
Then there is
You shall Utlu/recite what is revealed to you of the scripture, and Aquimi Salat, for the Salat prohibits evil and vice. But the remembrance of God (through Salat) is the most important objective. God knows everything you do.Brother wakas has already suggested you an appropriate translation of this verse. Of course understanding Quran and then following it can forbid you from fahisha and munkir.
Taught by God to Abraham and passed down through the generations.
Not supported by Quran. It is following past generations blindly as no detail is given in Quran.
One may say where is the verse/s that tells you exactly all the steps of how to do it?
Qoran has not left no inexplicable things . How much more details do we need for something as consistently preserved as salat?
Do we need to know the details of how to eat and drink, do other things that we learn by observation and see regularly from others?When we are obsessed with something we get blinded and cannot see the truth. Please re-read and reflect what you are trying to say - equating ritual prayer with human instinct of eating and drinking.
God bless you.
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Also the rememberance of GOD is connected to Aquimi Salat as per 2014
...Aquimi Salat for my rememberence.Salaam Gl
2014
Surely I am Allah there is no god but Me so obey Me and establish the following for My "reminder".
Zikr is the Guidance given to us in Quran.
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Saad and the Quran possessing reminder/guidance, is a witness.
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Surely we sent the reminder/guidance and surely we to it, are protectors.
God bless you
