Issue with Salat/ prayer

Mohammed_

Peace good logic,

Please research and analyse,

The term نَافِلَةً لَّكَ
Other occurrences of كَ in various verses

good_logic

Peace Mohammed
You want me to research the answer for my question to you?
Anyway the Arabic is coming as funny codes?
I do not understand what I am supposed to research.

My understanding 1779 is also addressing the individual as well like 1778, Tajahud does not mean Salat . It tends towards Meditation typre of dhikr?
GOD bless you
Peace

Novice

Peace Novice.
When we conversed about Salat you said it was "follow closely" .
However you said in this thread, quote

Thanks wakas

What I understand from above is that salat is not sunni/shia traditional ritual prayer. It is reading/reflecting/oration of Quran at two times of the day.

If this is what you meant in your article then I totally agree with it.

This is what I meant by changing your stance.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Well brother GL my stance is still the same that d lm ww ( &#1608 mans to follow closely. In my reply to brother wakas I agreed with his explanation that salat is not ritual prayer but reading/reflecting on Quran. It will give us the guidance that we are commanded to follow closely.

When I read Quran I try to understand it in Arabic Language which has words derived from root letters and every root has its specific meaning.

God bless you.

Novice

When GOD instructed the prophet to "Aquimi Salat" what did the prophet do? Where are the details of the claimants of different meanings of Aquimi Salat" like for example "reading Qoran two times " or....others?

GOD calls it "the Salat2 not an ambiguous salat. A specific well known something. to all these people here

Because Abraham was appreciative of His Lord's blessings, He chose him and guided him in a straight path. We granted him happiness in this life, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous. Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the millat/religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper. (16120-123)

Brother GL salam

16120-123
(

Surely Ibraheem was an ummat, establishing God's Law truthfully and was not from those who obey other than God.

(

Sharer of God's blessings with others so He chose him and guided him to straight path.

(

and We gave him good in this life and surely he will be among the saliheen in the hereafter.

Then We inspired you that follow "millat Ibraheem" truthfully and he was not from those who attach partners.

So our prophet was commanded to follow the path of Ibraheem because he was not from those who associate partners with God. Sorry brother I do not see any command to follow any rituals here.

That path was followed by the children of Abraham, Moses, Jesus...etc.

Yes they followed the straight path and did not associate anything with God.

And mention in the scripture Ismail. He was truthful when he made a promise, and he was a messenger prophet. He used to enjoin his family to observe the Salat and the Zakat; he was acceptable to his Lord. (1954-55)

Salat and zakat have their meaning in the Arabic Language. So was he enjoining his family some rituals which have no connection to the meanings of the terms salat and zakat?

We inspired Moses and his brother. "Maintain your homes in Egypt for the time being, turn your homes into synagogues, and maintain the Salat. Give good news to the believers.

1087

SO brother GL which word in this verse you have translated as "synagogues"?

She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of God. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Salat and the Zakat for as long as I live.

Something is referred as "The Salat"
1959
After them, He substituted generations who lost the Salat, and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.

In this verse salat is compared with one's desires. So for me as-salat is the guidance of God vs human desires, which is required to be followed closely.

It cannot be many different interpretation. It is one single well known thing that they all did!!!

Yes they all followed God's guidance and did not associate anything with God.

God bless you.

good_logic

Peace Novice.
Guidance is not "The Salat" that Qoran is talking about.
Common brother, you know very well Arabic "AL" is used for a specific noun that gets done. Guidance is something one gets .

And is now Salat= guidance?

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Mohammed_

Peace good logic,

You want me to research the answer for my question to you?

Yes, of course

1779 speaks about a Swalat in my view. Because the verse starts with وَ (denotes continuation of the previous verse) and 1778 is clearly a Swalat verse.
And after all, the command in 1779 is (additional) for the prophet, so no need to worry about that, while believers can remember/glorify/praise/do swalat whenever they wish.

Update: Post updated with corrections. Responses may refer to the original version.
Original wording (for reference):
'And after all, the command in 1779 is exclusively for the prophet, so no need to worry about that, while believers can remember/glorify/praise God whenever they wish.'

jkhan

Because Abraham was appreciative of His Lord's blessings, He chose him and guided him in a straight path. We granted him happiness in this life, and in the Hereafter he will be with the righteous. Then we inspired you (Muhammad) to follow the millat/religion of Abraham, the monotheist; he never was an idol worshiper. (16120-123)

That path was followed by the children of Abraham, Moses, Jesus...etc.

And mention in the scripture Ismail. He was truthful when he made a promise, and he was a messenger prophet. He used to enjoin his family to observe the Salat and the Zakat; he was acceptable to his Lord. (1954-55)

We inspired Moses and his brother. "Maintain your homes in Egypt for the time being, turn your homes into synagogues, and maintain the Salat. Give good news to the believers.

She pointed to him. They said, "How can we talk with an infant in the crib?" (The infant spoke and) said, "I am a servant of God. He has given me the scripture, and has appointed me a prophet. He made me blessed wherever I go, and enjoined me to observe the Salat and the Zakat for as long as I live.

Let us not be of those who are loosing the "salat"

1959
After them, He substituted generations who lost the Salat, and pursued their lusts. They will suffer the consequences.

Dear brother GL
It's not physical Salat which is lost.. But morals... In 1959
If actually physical Salat is lost, then how you claim the salt is preserved and no need of step by step instructions... So the generations have lost Salat is lost.. So, when it reaches to Mohamed then Salat is lost then it is definitely QURANs duty to explain the lost Salat in right way... In fact they lost the morals and pursued their own lust which is evil... When no moral only evil will prevail...

Novice

Guidance is not "The Salat" that Qoran is talking about.
Common brother, you know very well Arabic "AL" is used for a specific noun that gets done. Guidance is something one gets .

So Al-salat means "the guidance" to be followed closely. Human being can get guidance from different sources but "the guidance" is only the one coming from God.

And is now Salat= guidance?

Brother are you serious or just having fun?

Salat means "something to be followed closely" then it is obviously the guidance given in Quran. That is why brother wakas said read/reflect Quran at least two times a day so we keep on reminding ourselves what needs to be followed in our life.

God bless you.

Wakas

peace all,

For those who want an accurate translation of 1778-79, here is my rendition

Quote
Establish the salat at the setting of the sun to the darkness of the night; and the reading (of) dawn; indeed, the reading (of) dawn is witnessed.
And from the night so remain awake with it additionally for yourself, perhaps your Lord will raise you (to) a status praiseworthy.

The "with it" (Arabic bi hi) refers to a preceding masculine noun, and thus can ONLY refer to "reading" (Arabic quran). Note that "salat" is a feminine noun. Thus, the idea of "the tahajjud prayer" is not possible unless one considers it as a reading (also see 7320).

Background
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

It should be obvious that even if one takes 1778-79 being applicable to all, the use of "additionally for yourself, perhaps..." in 1779 clearly suggests this is an extra (to what is the norm/expected/mandated).

good_logic

Peace jkhan.

You say , quote

It's not physical Salat which is lost.. But morals... In 1959
If actually physical Salat is lost, then how you claim the salt is preserved and no need of step by step instructions... So the generations have lost Salat is lost.. So, when it reaches to Mohamed then Salat is lost then it is definitely QURANs duty to explain the lost Salat in right way... In fact they lost the morals and pursued their own lust which is evil... When no moral only evil will prevail...

Brother, you mean "The Salat"= Morals?
Qoran clearly say" Adahu Al Salat" -The Salat a specific thing that you say is morals!!! That is all I need to say in reply.
GOD bless you.
Peace
Peace

good_logic

Peace wakas.
I agree "Tahajud" is not a prayer. But this, quote

The "with it" (Arabic bi hi) refers to a preceding masculine noun, and thus can ONLY refer to "reading" (Arabic quran). Note that "salat" is a feminine noun. Thus, the idea of "the tahajjud prayer" is not possible unless one considers it as a reading (also see 7320).

For me "bihi" can mean Qoran.-Study/read /meditate with...Qoran". . not necessarily just read.Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

jkhan

Peace jkhan.

You say , quote

It's not physical Salat which is lost.. But morals... In 1959
If actually physical Salat is lost, then how you claim the salt is preserved and no need of step by step instructions... So the generations have lost Salat is lost.. So, when it reaches to Mohamed then Salat is lost then it is definitely QURANs duty to explain the lost Salat in right way... In fact they lost the morals and pursued their own lust which is evil... When no moral only evil will prevail...

Brother, you mean "The Salat"= Morals?
Qoran clearly say" Adahu Al Salat" -The Salat a specific thing that you say is morals!!! That is all I need to say in reply.
GOD bless you.
Peace
Peace

Dear GL....
You must be knowing if you remember I am not against Salat as physical prayer admiring the Creator as instructed in the Quran as per it's timing...
But claiming every word of salat is prayer then it is meaningless.
1958 -1959 started with Adam and ended in children of Israel and few later then Salat neglected.. And they chose instead of Salat their own lust.... Morals are not own lust ..but morals are law abiding good characters which pleases everyone who likes peace. But they neglected Salat and chose lust which resulted soon in evil...

jkhan

peace all,

For those who want an accurate translation of 1778-79, here is my rendition

Quote
Establish the salat at the setting of the sun to the darkness of the night; and the reading (of) dawn; indeed, the reading (of) dawn is witnessed.
And from the night so remain awake with it additionally for yourself, perhaps your Lord will raise you (to) a status praiseworthy.

Dear brother waqas...
Is it not weird to take the verse 1778 to befit for Salat Al isha since Salat Al. Isha timing already given in 11114 which are Fajr and isha...
Salat timing are given only in two places... So out if the two again you make 1778 to be isha by saying the setting of the sun.... Is that the word for setting sun in Quran?
Why there is no day time prayer in your understanding.... Didnt you actually not find a day time prayer in Quran.... Or are you busy during day time... How come a knowledgeable person like you missed glaring proofs in Quran for a day time Salat...
God guide us...

good_logic

Brother jkhan.
I am not claiming any salat is a prayer.
I am saying according to my understanding "The salat" in that verse and in a lot of other verses with the Arabic "AL" i.e Al Salat- is a specific and known one thing . -Contact prayer-
.
So "Adahu "The Salat" means a deliberate loss of "The Salat" from the part of some generations that followed Moses/Jesus... .i.e they choose not to do "The Salat". Obviously this leads to a decline in being GOD conscious. As This particular and specific"The Salat" helps the morals also.

So ,brother,it does not say "the Salat" is lost. It says"Adahu" .The generations have lost /stopped...doing it.. Some devout believers always existed that kept it..
GOD bless you.
Peace.

good_logic

Peace Mohammed.
So if someone ask us a question from our understanding, we can just say"search for the answer yourself"?
Is this not an easy way out of explaining ourselves?
Just clarifying with you why you do not answer me yourself.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

Wakas

peace all,

For me "bihi" can mean Qoran.-Study/read /meditate with...Qoran". . not necessarily just read.Qoran.

The word "tahajjad" means "stay awake", and "quran" means "reading/recitation", thus putting it together simply means "stay awake with reading/recitation", and yes that could overlap into study/pondering etc but as you said its not prayer. Using your own reasoning will mean when Quran says "quran al fajr / reading of the dawn" that is also not prayer, so according to you we have to do prayer at fajr and reading at fajr. Of course my view is this problem is a consequence of your salat=prayer view, its not a problem for my view.

jkhan,

Is that the word for setting sun in Quran?

Yes that is one rendition, but also "rubbing/pressing of the sun" (i.e. on the horizon). I discuss it in more detail here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html

I didn't find a daytime salat.

jkhan

jkhan,Yes that is one rendition, but also "rubbing/pressing of the sun" (i.e. on the horizon). I discuss it in more detail here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html

I didn't find a daytime salat.

Peace...
Let me read the link and come back to you on Sunday in sha Allah... Why you claim "I didn't find day time Salat "
God guide us.... I will come up with some points for and against to your claim....
God Guide us and accept us...

jkhan

Dear brother waqas....
I need a definite clear cut answer from you to my second point before I come to the timing of Salat in Quran... Let's first clear day and night...

3637 "And a sign for them is the night. We remove from it day, so they are in darkness."
Darkness = night(lail)
Light = day(nahar)
Abnormal places excluded in my explanation.. Pls note...

... 2187.. So you should breakfast at sunset... But should stop eating once you see the white thread at Fajr.. Well before sun rise... If the start of fasting is in darkness why not the end? What difference it makes till sunrise if we can eat and drink and then abstain and breakfast at sunset. . It's not matching... God ordered to fast at dawn and break at night... What is night? Sunset.... No way...
i wonder I asked this question this forum... Can't remember.. Still ask... If sunrise to Sun set is day(nahar) then command is to have sexual intercourse at night of fasting... Does that mean, can we have intercourse after Fajr before sunrise (i. e.. Twilight period of dawn) since it falls as per you brother waqas is lail(night)... Having sex while fasting is not permitted... Yes or No? Then why do you decide after clear white thread of dawn, still night..? Respond clearly...
By God's saying itself such as... "On the nights of fasting" it shows the days(nahar) are actually meant for fasting and not night... If in fact time for breakfast is sunset God would have said Guribath shams (Sunset) but God said Lail (night) Guribath shams is already a word in Quran but not used here...
Let me add one more point...
Two ends of the day(nahar) can never be sunset and sunrise... Nahar is day and day is with light... Sunset and sunrise is not by any means two identical things.. Sun rise brings light and radiance.. But sunset diminish light and make it dark.... .. Two ends of the day (nahar) is two twilights period of the day which is after sunset and before sunrise...

Mohammed_

Peace Mohammed.
So if someone ask us a question from our understanding, we can just say"search for the answer yourself"?
Is this not an easy way out of explaining ourselves?
Just clarifying with you why you do not answer me yourself.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

peace good logic,

I am really sorry for that. please forgive.

I felt that, even if I brought to you the answer, you&#039re not going to believe because,
your signature says that you trust in God, still you&#039re following tradition(e.g. Swalat) while God says Qur&#039an has explanation for everything. That is why I told you to do your own research and that was a simple thing especially for you because you are so senior on this forum.

And I didn&#039t like your this question

Anyway the Arabic is coming as funny codes?

And I felt something wrong since you are not showing your gender identity

All these things made me to give that reply that time.

anyway I am sorry for everything.

Mohammed

Mohammed_

peace all,

Today I watched the videos linked in the post and I wish the following corrections to my previous replies (#3#40),

Swalat should be translated as adherence (to God), not prayer

Swalat in 4102, 11114, 1778 & the first SLW in 2238 are about the regular timed adherence (to God).