RADIO-CARBON DATING PROVES THE QUR'AN IS TOO OLD
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PEACE
Indeed the Quran is very old, and actually goes back to more than 1700 years.
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NVgZh_6HKs&t=8s
Empirical research by Christian apologist Jay Smith, and with RC14 carried out on the San'a folios, in 4 laboratories across Europe proves that the Ancient Quranic folios dated back between 400 CE to 550 CE! This datings is on par with the Hijazi Script used during that era!
Also check out my articles
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606373.0
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607488.0
peace
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Peace Hizbullah.
I have studied many papers of Jay Smith. He is a Christian evangelist well known for following his own agenda
Example Old mosques face Petra...I have checked this and found no conclusive evidence. In fact today s advance on GPS refutes his theory altogether. Also his Science papers were faked. There was no official study of this from the university he claimed.Some of his claims have been refuted here also. I advise folks to check both view.
https//www.answering-islam.org/Responses/contrasmith.htmlFor me the truth has to be evidenced 100%. Some of the studies give a probability range of 50% minimum to 80% maximum like carbon dating.
What is not right is to have one extreme s view against another as evidence unless it is conclusive.
Proper Evidence confirmed/don by a neutral source also I have not come across any such evidence.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
1 where is the detailed report from these 4 labs ? (any authorised link from the direct source of labs)
2 on what parchments they did radio carbon dating ?in case if they did on sana manuscripts ( between 578 CE and 669 CE ) official report going against the claim of Jay Smith.
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The missionary deceivers (i.e. bunch of bull-crap they like to spread on the internet) are at top echelon of the ignorant. Carbon-14 dating was developed in 1949 and in 1960 the inventors W. F. Libby, E. C. Anderson and J. R. Arnold were awarded the Nobel Prize in chemistry. Likewise it gives "a range with probability" that animal skins i.e. parchment used to write were living.
https//www.islamic-awareness.org/quran/text/mss/radio
These are two of the earliest carbon dated manuscript folios.
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/4/vers/176/handschrift/15
Berlin, State Library ms.or.fol. 4313
606-652 CE (95.4%)https//i.postimg.cc/hDMNzmwv/ch4v172-ch5v2.jpg
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/20/vers/1?handschrift=281
Birmingham, Cadbury Research Library (University of Birmingham)
568-645 CE (95.4%)https//i.postimg.cc/zGjrXQY2/ch19v91-ch20v13.jpg
peace!
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Peace Good Logic,
Thank you for your reply
I agree with you 100%. Nevertheless, they are right as far as this subject is concern. But instead of proving that the history of Islam is a mess, they correct the history of Quran-Islam, which in this case was much older than what they taught! Quranic evidence which i have shown in my articles proved my points! Please read my articles, one of it, where the Arab historian inform us of a Prophet who will emerge in the 3rd / 4th Century CE in Arabia! Historical evidence proves that the Arabs converted to a form of religion independent of Judaism and the Nazarean in the 4th Century CE!
In a recent article titled ?What kind of Judaism in Arabia?? Christian Robin, a French epigraphist and historian who also leads the expedition at Bir Hima, says most scholars now agree that, around 380 CE, the elites of the kingdom of Himyar converted to some form of "Judaism". Fyi, Judism already existed before the 4th Century CE. In fact Arabia is the cradle of Judaism! So in actual case, the Pagan Arabs, the Himyarites, were the one who converted to this new form of religion. This is Quran-Islam!
You are given the faculties of intelligence, eyesight and hearing and most important you have the right to your own opinion.
God bless you
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Peace Noon
Those Quranic Folios you shown were written in Hijazi-Jazm Scripts. According to expert on this script, Mr Saad Abulhab, early Arabic script, Jazm, was independently developed by the Arab tribes settling north of Hijz, and Najd from
localized versions of cursive Musnad, particularly the Safaw style, much earlier than the 4th century CE! Below is a
rough translation of the so called "pre Islamic poem", attributed to a man from Mecca or Dumat al-Jandal, which is widely referenced in Arabic literatureDo not deny Bushr?s* favors to you (* Bushr ibn `Abd al-Malik)
He was a man of open blessed wisdom
He brought you al-Jazm calligraphy until you saved
the money that was plenty and scattered
You then moved the pens back and forth
as skilful as scribers of Kisr?* and Qaysar* (* Sassanid and Roman Emperors)
And had no need to Musnad of father Himyr* (* Father of Yemen Himyrite tribes)
and whatever the Himyrite* kings wrote on pages
By the 7th Century CE, Kufic script were used widely throughout Arabia and the Levant.
Fyi, the history of the present Islam is base on Zoroastrian Abbasid Baramika family since the 7th Century CE! Same era where the hadith were compiled! It has nothing to do with Quran-Islam!
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Peace Noon
Those Quranic Folios you shown were written in Hijazi-Jazm Scripts. According to expert on this script, Mr Saad Abulhab, early Arabic script, Jazm, was independently developed by the Arab tribes settling north of Hijz, and Najd from
localized versions of cursive Musnad, particularly the Safaw style, much earlier than the 4th century CE!Peace Hizbullah ? Qur'an folios clearly differ from 4th, 5th century script.
Likewise why not post link so everyone can see and read for themselves?https//academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&context=bb_pubs
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Peace Hizbullah ? Qur'an folios clearly differ from 4th, 5th century script.
Likewise why not post link so everyone can see and read for themselves?https//academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1048&context=bb_pubs
Thanks for posting the link.
The folios you sent were written in Hijazi Script aka Jazm Script.
Please refer to the link. Read it!
Peace
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Thanks for posting the link.
The folios you sent were written in Hijazi Script aka Jazm Script.
Please refer to the link. Read it!
I did read it and the author never asserts the qur'an is 4th century product.
author showed clear script examples while you omitted 5th - 6th centuries??It is commonly believed today that Bushr ibn `Abd al- Malik al-Kind, believed to be a Christian Arab, was the first to bring Jazm from Hrah to Mecca. 16 Bushr was the brother of al-Ukaydir, a leader from ancient Dumat al-Jandal (ouside Sakkah of northern Saudi Arabia) that is located 200 miles southwest of Hrah. Dumat al-Jandal is the earliest known northern Arab city dating back to the 10th century B.C. 36 At that time, during the 5th - 6th centuries, it was the capital of the Arab kingdom of Kinda. Below is a rough translation of a pre Islamic poem, attributed to a man from Mecca or Dumat alJandal, 18 which is widely referenced in Arabic literature?
?Evidently, the development of Jazm was a continuous process spanning over several centuries. Early inscriptions before and after the emergence of Islam included both isolated and attached forms of the same letters. It seems that Jazm had only matured after the emergence of the Kufic style. Although this style is named after Kufa in modern Iraq, inscriptions dated to 4 Hijr calender (625 CE) show that it was used in Medina first. Like other religious groups around them, the Muslims apparently wanted to designate a unique style for the writing of their book, the Qur?n. The fact that the Arabic writing system matured only after the Islamic era is natural. Most scripts develop after being adapted in a state environment. In the pre Islamic era Arabic Jazm was clearly a developing script.?
peace!
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I did read it and the author never asserts the qur'an is 4th century product.
author showed clear script examples while you omitted 5th - 6th centuries?I never said the author said the Qur'an is 4th century product and I did not omitted anything, i did told you who the author is! Besides it is you who deliberately refuted a scholarly research!
?It is commonly believed today that Bushr ibn `Abd al- Malik al-Kind, believed to be a Christian Arab, was the first to bring Jazm from Hrah to Mecca. 16 Bushr was the brother of al-Ukaydir, a leader from ancient Dumat al-Jandal (ouside Sakkah of northern Saudi Arabia) that is located 200 miles southwest of Hrah. Dumat al-Jandal is the earliest known northern Arab city dating back to the 10th century B.C. 36 At that time, during the 5th - 6th centuries, it was the capital of the Arab kingdom of Kinda. Below is a rough translation of a pre Islamic poem, attributed to a man from Mecca or Dumat alJandal, 18 which is widely referenced in Arabic literature?
Allow me educate you;
The 5th century is the time period from 400 to 500 Anno Domini (AD) or Common Era (CE) in the Julian calendar.
The 6th century is the period from 501 to 600 in accordance with the Julian calendar in the Common Era.
?Evidently, the development of Jazm was a continuous process spanning over several centuries. Early inscriptions before and after the emergence of Islam included both isolated and attached forms of the same letters. It seems that Jazm had only matured after the emergence of the Kufic style. Although this style is named after Kufa in modern Iraq, inscriptions dated to 4 Hijr calender (625 CE) show that it was used in Medina first. Like other religious groups around them, the Muslims apparently wanted to designate a unique style for the writing of their book, the Qur?n. The fact that the Arabic writing system matured only after the Islamic era is natural. Most scripts develop after being adapted in a state environment. In the pre Islamic era Arabic Jazm was clearly a developing script.?
The author wrote the above in Pg 11. He continue below in Pg 27
Further supporting our argument are the papyri inscriptions of that not-so-rare Quranic M?il calligraphic style and the two account papyri mentioned above. The author believes that this Mail style was not unusual, short lived, calligraphic style born after Islam as it is commonly thought today. It seems that M?il was the Hijz style of early Arabic Jazm which was gradually phased out by the Kufic and Naskh styles after Islam. In fact, letters forms of early Kufic style are almost identical to those of M?il. Examining M?il papyri one can easily observe not only the slanted Alfs but also the miniature Safaw Musnad Ww.
The Mail Script evolved from Jazm and short lived during the 7th Century CE! The Kufic script continues!
Please read the scholarly research by Saad Abulhab and if you have any problem in understanding, i am most happy to educate you. No point of pasting ancient Quranic folios without knowing the script and when it was written. It is not appropriate!
Without knowing the history of Islam, this is going to be very dangerous especially to our next generation. The christians are trying their best to tell the whole world the history of Quran Islam and the Prophet, a scam and Islam is just a plagiarized religion!
peace!
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I never said the author said the Qur'an is 4th century product and I did not omitted anything, i did told you who the author is!
no you wrote a false statement and spread lies with that video without proof.
quote author=Hizbullah
"Indeed the Quran is very old, and actually goes back to more than 1700 years."Besides it is you who deliberately refuted a scholarly research!
quote me?
Allow me educate you;
you provided nothing only false video and link showing evolving script. (nothing new)
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no you wrote a false statement and spread lies with that video without proof.
quote author=Hizbullah
"Indeed the Quran is very old, and actually goes back to more than 1700 years."The only person who is a liar here is YOU! Your believes in the Quran is only at the end of your lips, nothing in the heart.....just like the so called Muslims who believe in the Hadith! Thank you for telling me that you are HYPOCRITE aka MUNAFIK in Arabic, in case you dont know!
quote me?
Seriously, do i need to show you??? thanks again for telling me you are a MORON!
you provided nothing only false video and link showing evolving script. (nothing new)
Q0218 - deaf, dumb, blind -- so they shall not return;
The above Quranic verse meaning - Long story short - YOU ARE A DUMB ASS!
This is my thread, please do not disrupt it
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Salam to All,
Please guys there should be no cursing and insulting
God bless you all
Its natural to curse in a debate when one party losing their claim.
why they do it ?
ans thats the only satisfaction they can get otherwise bloodpressure can reach to risky stage lol. it usually happen when somone bring a news without investigation and news refuted by current data of time/ space.God guide and bless us all.
its very Natural and observeable even in small daily debates.
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Peace Imran.
If one wants to do insulting, this is how it should be done
https//www.bing.com/videos/search?q=how+does+bugs+bunny+swear&view=detail&mid=300E616B3581752CA07C300E616B3581752CA07C&FORM=VIREGOD bless you.
Peace. -
Any updates from Hizbullah or Noon Waalqalami?
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Any updates from Hizbullah or Noon Waalqalami?
Peace bro
Just to inform you that there are people who very arrogant to assume that their standards are way higher than others. I advise them stop living in a cocooned mind set and be realistic about things especially the Quran! Get out of their little mind and try to see the bigger picture?use a wee bit of their intelligence to think about the long-term consequences for the ummah!
The importance of history cannot be overemphasized. History is like a long-term memory where nations? voices are preserved. It may be safe to say that people without history are people without intelligence. So, why have our Islamic scholars deliberately refused to acknowledge the true history of Quran-Islam and to attract Muslims (old and young) to become interested in this study? Has this anything to do with their overemphasis on Islam?s rituals for gaining salvation in the Hereafter that the importance of its history loses its significance in their eyes?
In spite of expounding the history of Quran-Islam, a vast majority of Muslims are ignorant of the subject. While there are more than one and a half billion Muslims in the world, it may be no exaggeration to say that very few are interested to learn the truth about the history of Quran-Islam.
Q12106 - And most of them believe not in ALLAHU except while they associate others with HIM.
For a Muslim, the study of history should be like watching the laws of ALLAH in action, the application of information given in the Quran which was elucidated by the Quranic Seal of the Prophets (P). The Quran demands that Muslims reflect upon history, not merely to know it but to learn from it. By studying history - the true history, Muslims can gain an understanding of how ALLAH?s laws work in the world of humankind. ALLAH does not preordain the fate of nations, such as, when empires fall, and new ones arise. Rather, it is the nations themselves that cause their own downfall by not living in harmony with the laws of society that ALLAH has set for all.
There are two ways to learn from the history of past nations 1) learning from Quran and 2) learning from archaeological discoveries. History based on oral narrations in the absence of Quran or archaeological discoveries or both are NOT reliable, especially if that history is compiled under a period ruled by kings.
While the Quran exhorts Muslims to learn from history, they essentially have ignored this message. The Quran presents history of past nations as evidence of the efficacy and truth of its message and a warning to those who do not listen to the verdict of history
Q03137 - Many were the Ways of Life that have passed away before you travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who rejected Truth.
Q0611 - Say "Travel through the earth and see what was the end of those who rejected Truth."
Q4710 - Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the End of those before them (who did evil)? ALLAH brought utter destruction on them, and similar (fates await) those who reject Allah.
The study of history is often presented in chronological terms describing the rise and the fall of empires; but is that all to history of Quran-Islam?
So what is the history of Quran-Islam? Is it synonymous with the Zoroastrian-Islamic history of the 7th Century CE? Have Muslims been practicing Islam ? the Islam taught by the Quranic Seal of the Prophets? Or, have they deviated from it? What happened to the Muslim world after the end of the Ministry of the Quranic Seal of the Prophets and the Messengers that were assigned to their people? Is everything done in the name of Quran-Islam by Muslim kings, rulers, or politicians, as part of Islamic history?
Whatever may be the reason, the fact is that a vast majority of Muslims are ignorant or uninterested to find out the truth about the history of Quran-Islam. Sectarian beliefs and practices have created various schools of thought. Books and articles base on the Zoroastrian-Islamic history (and even the translation and interpretation of the Quran) are consequently colored by the sectarian beliefs and thought of their authors. Scholars and leaders of competing schools of thought play with emotions of their followers in order to promote their version of history as the true so-called Islamic history.
Nevertheless, the process in underlying the truth of the history of Quran-Islam is very straightforward. A piece of evidence must be rejected if it is not consistent with facts or if it is against the Quran. For example, it is a known fact that the Zoroastrian-Islamic history of the 7th Century claimed that the Prophet was an Arab born in Arabia and descended directly from Prophet Ishmael. However, the Quran says in 2927
And We gave to him Isaac and Jacob and placed in his descendants Prophet-hood and scripture. And We gave him his reward in this world, and indeed, he is in the hereafter among the righteous.
From the verse, no doubt Ishmael was Abraham?s son, but the verse explicitly says the descendants of Prophet-hood came from his first son and grandson, Isaac and Jacob! Nowhere in the verse mention Ishmael!
Further, Muslims believe that Ishmael was the first born and that he was the sacrificial son! But the Quran refuted to their claims which was base from the Satanic hadith! Read my article below
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606503.0
The Proto Islam Manichean introduce by the Seal of the Prophets, Prophet Mani (P), who was born in the 3rd Century CE and probably lived his life throughout the 4th Century CE, written several Books included six works originally written in Aramaic, and one in Arabic -
Q1587 - And We have certainly given you, , seven of the 2nd, that is, the Great Quran.
Historically, while none of his books in Aramaic have survived in complete form, the Arabic form survived because ? this is the Arabic Quran. It was in Arabia that the Prophet migrated to when an assassination was attempted on him. It was in Arabia that the Arabic version Quran was written. The Quran in 16103 affirmed that an Aramaic teacher taught Arabic Quran to an Individual! The Quran in 6304 affirmed that Ancient Arabic Musnad was the spoken and written language of its audience.
I am very sure there were huge endeavors in record keeping and record maintenance. Obviously, those written documents were precious historical treasure containing the true Quran-Islam history. Please read my article below
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=7a11c7954af2975a19c9c436c0109645&topic=9607488.0
This story written by Ibn Ishaq, who wrote a work on South Arabian antiquities - Kitab Al-Tijan Li Ma'rifatimuluk AlZaman - Book of Crowns in Knowing Kings of the Age. This piece of evidence was edited to a certain extent by Ibn Hisham.
This process of studying history is probably more emotionally challenging than mentally, because it requires the will to cast aside beliefs and folklore that fail the above Quranic criteria and archaeological discoveries, no matter how important they may be to us. Being very important to our hearts does not change a false fact into a true one.
Peace
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Surprising, a caveman using the internet rotfl
Hmm... Don't be surprised... Men in cave were believers for 309 years... laugh
BTW.... Don't dream that these people will change hadith made hijri calendar...... That's part of their belief..... If hijri calendar goes wrong.... So many numbering will go wrong rotfl....for example Moon Landing... rotfl... 1969 = ....
So Husbulla.... Your effort is waste here... It is like proving to these earth is not spinning... rotfl
