Has anyone on here ever met another quran only believer in real life
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So ,if one values GOD Alone and loves GOD the most, they are idolising GOD? Or is it not a question of GOD Alone deserves the utmost love?
If you values God, you will value all things..
If you loves GOD, you will love everyone and everything...Again.. it come back to one definition of what is God?
Thus "God Alone" is nonsensical in a way... given God is All and more..Similarly when you say , quote
The "Quran Alone movement" is heading towards a cult, sect with Quran as it's idol...
Your statement is general ,hence wrong. You could have said "...Some Qoran alone movements..."It depends on one definition of "Quran Alone Movement".
If he/she views that- Something is true (or false) just because the Quran said so..
- There is no truth outside of Quran and/or Quran is nothing but only truth
Then yes.. he/she is idolizing the book titled Quran..
Surely if one values GOD they should also value His words-Qoran- if they have proof Qoran is the word of GOD, unless someone else has proof Qoran is man s words to counter theirs!!!!
The above is a very good example of how "Quran Idolizing" mindset works..
Quran = God, God = Quran.Similar to
Jesus = God, God = Jesus
Marduk Statue = God, God = Marduk Statue
and so on and so on..All books are written by human for human.
All statue are molded by human for human.By the way, if one loves God then he/she will loves All...
So following anything is a sect. There should be only one sect-GOD Alone sect- uniting on being in one mindset with GOD s system of the straight path and justice/freedom for all.
A critical characteristic of a SECT / CULT / RELIGION is an existence of DOGMA.
Dogma = Idea / Belief which MUST NOT be questioned.All member of the sect / cult / religion must just obey, samina waatona, we hear and we obey.. and never ever dare to question the validity of the dogma. Those who dare to question let alone dare to state that the dogma is false / illogical / doesn't make sense must be PUNISHED, in order to maintain the 'purity' of the sect / cult / religion. By purity here means TOTAL OBEDIENCE.
This also resulted in the need of something to bond the member of the sect together. Something which makes them feel unique and superior compared to those who are outside of the sect.
Thus gives birth to yet another set of dogmas, such as- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/Put your favorite sect here> are on the side of God others are enemy of God.
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/Put your favorite sect here> will be rewarded by God others will be tortured by God.
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/Put your favorite sect here> are the chosen by God others are unchosen by God.
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/Put your favorite sect here> have book that is truly written by God others are not written by God.
- Only <Muslim/Catholics/Orthodox/Put your favorite sect here> is the truest and purest group others are false / lower in status / made to serve us.
And many others of Superiorism dogma...
All are invented to keep the sect together, thus no one will dare to leave the sect.But herewith the rule that is applicable in this universe.. with abundant evidence observable throughout any time in history.
"For those who exalt themselves they will be humbled, and those who humble themselves they will be exalted."
-- Matt 23Whether the above sentence was written by God or human or animal or alien or whatever doesn't really matter, as it's truthfulness can be clearly observed.. Or putting the logic in reverse truth is truth, a statement of truth doesn't requires any claim of "written / authored by God" as it's truthfulness can be clearly seen.
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Well said and totally logical @ jaffar
Even people can find this attitude in book called quran when ibless said "i m better than him" and he get disqualified from the status he was having.
Problem started when people dnt TREAT people the way they want to get treated.
Also Author claimed many times all nation/all things/all time/space belong to God alone.(universal true God) depends on what God they having in mind.
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Greetings and Peace, all group
494 O you who believe, if you strike in the cause of God, you shall investigate carefully. And do not say to he who greets you with peace "You are not a believer!" You are seeking the vanity of this world; but with God are many riches. That is how you were before, but God graced you, so investigate carefully. God is expert over what you do.
2267 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.
262 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Nazarenes, and the Sabians, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; they will have their recompense with their Lord, and there is no fear upon them, nor will they grieve.
569 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.
2217 Surely those who believe; and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, and the Zoroastrians; and those who were polytheists; God will separate between them on the Day of Resurrection. For God is witness over all things.
So...the Almighty knows best who is a believer, that is not for us to say who is and who isn't. The various faiths and philosophies have varying rites, as we have our own, and this is okay and not to be an area of contention. Lastly truth and a positive outcome on Judgment Day is not limited to those who call Islam their deen.
I'd argue that since all Prophets (peace upon them all) came with the same message, if a Christian is one who follows the teachings and example of Jesus, then anyone who follows the teachings and example of Muhammad is also a Christian (in that definition of Christian).
Anyone who worships the message has gone far astray, as has anyone who worships a messenger or asks for the intercession of either. Those who blindly follow what they find others doing, whether here or anywhere else is setting themselves up for a disappointment. On the other hand, reasoned discourse benefits many ISA, and can provide leads for others to check and verify for themselves.
May ALLAH see fit to Guide all seekers.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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2218 Do you not see that to God submits everyone in the heavens and everyone on earth? And the sun, and the moon, and the stars, and the mountains, and the trees - and all kinds of living beings that crawl on their belly, walk on two or four feet, or fly - and many of the human beings submit to Him. But there are numerous human beings who incur retribution. Whoever disgraces himself according to God?s law, for him, there is none that can raise him to honor. God has control over all things and events and He does everything according to His laws
if one can understand this deep verse just after the verse 2217 then the views of jafar are perfectly matching with the criteria of what the author of book quran is advising to the readers...
metaphoric approach towards quran/bible/tora/veda instead of literal is key to understand the message. ( same like the interpretation of poetry can only described best by the creator of poetry what we said as poet )
i remember understanding the poems what were in my own language and my teachers explains those poetry with totally different angle than literal words.. even the poets are/were already describe what they mean by it.. still we struggle understanding it so its same for the native speaker or non native speaker to understand the message behind poetry.. imagine if we dnt have the explaination by poet we all will have new ideas and lot of ideas of one poem depend from mind to mind..
exActly this thing happened with our so called book/s the first explainers were (bukhari and company/paul and company) etc who themselves were the students of understanding and later people take their poetry explaination as the law beside LAW.
our teachers in the field of religious poetry appeared as either weak or either corrupt or confirm racist due to which people divide in different groups of understandings..
overcoming on that fear is key of success, we are programmed not to go against our own BOOK/TEAM/NATION/IDEA. even after knowing the truth we dnt dare to share our truth FEAR is the enemy of common sense..
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2267 For every nation We have established rites which they are to fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute. And call upon your Lord, for you are on a guidance which is straight.
peace,
This is my translation and I would like to share some more verses after 2267
2267 To every nation We made a ritual or method of worship they are practicing the rituals or methods of worship, so they do not dispute/quarrel with you in the matter/affair, and call(them) to your Lord, that you are on straight/direct guidance.
2268 And if they argued/disputed with you, so say "God (is) more knowledgeable with what you make/do."
2269 "God judges/rules between you (on) the Resurrection Day, in what you were in it differing/disagreeing.
- And they worship from other than God what He did not descend with it a proof/evidence, and what (there) is not for them with it knowledge, and (there is) no victorior/savior to the unjust/oppressive.
569 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jewish, and the Sabians, and the Nazarenes, whoever of them believes in God and the Last Day and does good works; then they will have nothing to fear nor will they grieve.
one verse before 569
568 Say "You The Book's people, you are not on a thing, until you keep up the Torah and the Injeel, and what was descended to you from your Lord ." And what was descended to you(Muhammad) from your Lord increases many of them tyranny/arrogance, and disbelief, so do not grieve/sadden on the nation, the disbelieving.I'd argue that since all Prophets (peace upon them all) came with the same message, if a Christian is one who follows the teachings and example of Jesus, then anyone who follows the teachings and example of Muhammad is also a Christian (in that definition of Christian).
Are you sure that Christians are following the teachings and example of Jesus? If they were, they would have accept the truth.
Why Qur’an says “O you who believe” oftentimes?Jews and Nazarenes/Christians were sects among 'the people of the Book’ who followed their desires. See 2120-121, 2140, 930, 518
319
That truly the dheen/system at God, (is) the islam/submission/surrender, and those who were given The Book did not differ/disagree/dispute, except from after what (that) the knowledge came to them, out of jealousy/oppression between them, and who disbelieves with God's signs/verses, so that God (is) swift in reckoning.4828
He is who sent His messenger with the guidance and the truths' dheen to make it apparent/visible/overcome on/over the dheen/system all of it, and enough/sufficient with God (as) a witness. -
Peace Jafar.
I get your general point. But when you say this ,QuoteAll books are written by human for human.
So the mushaf -Qoran- is written by a human, but who authored /originated/ came up with the contents...of Qoran? Please give evidence.
You have dodged this question so many times in the past. At least give us your view of the origin/source of Qoran s contents.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
So the mushaf -Qoran- is written by a human, but who authored /originated/ came up with the contents...of Qoran? Please give evidence.
You have dodged this question so many times in the past. At least give us your view of the origin/source of Qoran s contents.
Q Who authored the contents of the book titled Quran?
A People or group of people who are heavily influenced by Jewish / Israelite traditions. I'm more lenient towards Jewish Christians a.k.a Messianic Jews.But anyway the above doesn't matter, except to those who idolized the Quran..
Now back to the original issue being discussed.
You yes.. you ... have direct access to God, the true God.
No idols / books / tablet / other human stand in between.
You don't need them...And so does he, her and them.. everyone have direct access to God.
There is no such thing as "Only VIP" have direct access to God, if anybody tell you as such I can tell you they're a liar. So does those who said "God's revelation has ended"... they're BS-ing you...All you need to do is ASK.
And answer will come.Don't bother about what language to use, what words to say, which direction to face, what time in a day yadayadayada..
Even when you're deaf or mute.. that is not a hindrance...
The true God knows the question even long before you say it...The answer can come through any medium.. all things are medium for the true God.
I've given some example of the medium based on my own personal experience, Orthodox Monks, Jewish Rabbi, Buddhist Monks, Janitor, Taxi Driver just to name a few. You might received from other medium than stated above, it can be books, ebooks, forum posting, picture, falling apple from the tree.. whatever. there is no such thing as 'truest messengers' or 'truest medium' because as saith earlier all things are medium for the true God. The true God controls everything....
How do you know it?
You will know...
The true messenger will never ask you to testify that he/she/it is a messenger, and they will not even realized it themselves..But.. after the answer came.. here's the catch.. sometimes you might not like it...
"Ask and it shall be given, Seek and you shall find, Knock and it will be opened to you"
Matt 7Note please stop debating whether the above quotation was really authored by God or not, because it doesn't matter..
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Peace Jafar.
So we should just accept this statement about the authorship of Qoran from you brother, quoteA People or group of people who are heavily influenced by Jewish / Israelite traditions. I'm more lenient towards Jewish Christians a.k.a Messianic Jews.
How contradictory can you get/?And you expect people to use their logic and investigate?
You are setting a bad example of hypocrisy
Please come up with your evidence , or accept that this is your own opinion and assumption.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Jafar.
So we should just accept this statement about the authorship of Qoran from you brother, quoteA People or group of people who are heavily influenced by Jewish / Israelite traditions. I'm more lenient towards Jewish Christians a.k.a Messianic Jews.
How contradictory can you get/?And you expect people to use their logic and investigate?
You are setting a bad example of hypocrisy
Please come up with your evidence , or accept that this is your own opinion and assumption.LOL..
NO I'm not asking anyone to accept any statement...
Especially around petty issue such as who actually authored a book.
Definitely for sure it was a human, the same as any other books...But this is again a specific characteristic of a sect / cult / religion.
Making a fuss over things which doesn't matter...
And miss out the more important aspect of the message..Yet I understand how difficult it is to reflect upon ourselves.. and how easy it is to judge upon others..
Thus I will take another example.Another cult / sect are having a big debate on the true color of Krishna..
Whether it is red, blue or black.
I will say if Krishna did exist then his color is either dark brownish or light brown just like any other natural skin color of human being.
The cult will reply back with bring your evidence that Krishna's color was either dark brown or light brown..
But hey.. how does it matter what Krishna's true color is??? rotfl rotfl
It only matter to those who idolize Krishna...Another cult / sect are having a big debate on the true nature of Jesus
Whether he is a god, a half god half human, true god true human or only human.
I will say if Jesus did exist then definitely he is a human being just like any other human being.
The cult will reply back with bring your evidence that Jesus was only a human being.
But hey.. how does it matter what Jesus was??? rotfl rotfl
It only matter to those who idolize Jesus...Now back for the home base...
Another cult / sect are having a big debate on the true author of Quran.
Whether it was a god, or human or a group of human.
I will say given Quran is a book, just like any other book then definitely it was authored by human or a group of human.
The cult will reply back with bring your evidence that Quran was authored by human?
But hey.. how does it matter who authored the Quran??? rotfl rotfl
It only matter to those who idolize Quran..Again I repeat the important message now.
Everyone have DIRECT access to the true God.
Any questions/worries you have in your mind, just ASK HIM.
He will answer.Some power hungry people will try to gain advantage acting and claiming as 'the ultimate broker' to God. They can do this directly.. or indirectly, through intermediary of idols... where he/she/they control some aspect of the idols. They will say that you cannot access God directly, God only talks to the VIPs or you can access God only through this idol as intermediary.. or God no longer want to talk to you He has wrote a book which marks the end of His revelation. rotfl rotfl rotfl
All of them are BS-ing you..
You.. all of you have direct access to the true God just ASK HIM. -
Peace Jafar.
Your post is just dodging the issue. Who authored Qoran?
If you are not prepared to bring evidence or accept you are not sure and you are making an assumption ,then your replies have no real meaning .
Diverting, changing the subject, and hoping the issue will go away will not work.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
EVIDENCE = ?
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TqSGpPPBXA
i think some individuals need to see this video and get a lesson even athiest voodoo EDIP and he was stumped and lost badly...
apparently atheist wins over him with the eye of neutrality...
although without any (holybooks/holy code) it can be interesting debate between athiest vs believer of original God(creator).
coders are helpless atheist smashed their idol called 19.
jafar we need you to call them i bet you can give them hard time...(i have faith on you) -
Imran, do you believe that a human/humans authored Qoran?
GOD bless you.
Peace -
Imran, do you believe that a human/humans authored Qoran?
GOD bless you.
PeaceGL first of all tell me which quran you are talking about ? hmm
1 khalifa version (without 9/128-129)
2 hafs/warsh version peace -
Peace Jafar.
Your post is just dodging the issue. Who authored Qoran?
If you are not prepared to bring evidence or accept you are not sure and you are making an assumption ,then your replies have no real meaning .I've given you straight and plain answer... it was written by Human just like any other books, stone tablets, scriptures, scrolls, ebook, software etc..
But again like I said you missed out the point..Perhaps I need to add more points to make it clear.
- I DON'T CARE what is the true color of Krishna, the true nature of Jesus, who actually wrote the Torah, who actually wrote the Veda and who actually wrote the Quran. It's not important at all. Only the cult member of respective idols that do care about such menial stuff.
- It is perfectly fine if you believe the Veda was written by Gods, Harry Potter was written by God, Babylonian law was written by Marduk, Torah was written by YHVH, Quran was written by Allah, Book Of The Dead was written by Osiris, Nazca lines was written by Alien. It is your rights to believe in anything that you want and so does everyone's rights to believe in whatever they want. I have no interest in changing the way you believe in things.
- Again I repeat Everyone have direct access to the true God, why not try asking him for whatever issues that you (or anyone else) might have. And curiosity is NOT BAD / EVIL. Every human was born with such traits and nothing wrong with that. Always be curious and always ask questions thus you will receive more answers / revelation. The holy books might shunned such attitude as it was actually written to control people and as a mean to ensure obedience towards cult members.
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Peace Jafar.
You not caring does not make your statement about Qoran true.
At least take on board that you are making an assumption without proper study/research and evidence .You are advising this"Always be curious and always ask questions"? Are you doing this properly to find out about Qoran?
Its Author saysThis is a revelation from the Lord of the universe The Honest Spirit (Gabriel) came down with it.
To reveal it into your heart, that you may be one of the warners.In a perfect Arabic tongue.
It has been prophesied in the books of previous generations.Is it not a sufficient sign for them that it was known to the scholars among the Children of Israel?
If we revealed this to people who do not know Arabic.
And had him recite it (in Arabic), they could not possibly believe in it.We thus render it (like a foreign language) in the hearts of the guilty.
….
Or is it in a foreign language to you brother Jafar?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Brother Imran.
Your version that you have studied/looked at(Any of your choice). The Arabic text version of course.
GOD bless you.
Peace.. -
peace GL,
you dodged the QUESTION rotfl
did u see that video and "shame shame" of EDIP ?
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This topic has wound up strangely.. feels like a mutazila and ashari argument of Quran and its createdness and uncreatedness.
Jafar. Good Logic, people can believe in God without religion but I also think religion helps people remember God or even help them make a connection with God. We follow a path we think is ?truest? but no matter what belief we hold we have our own bias and limitations. What we thought was true or right 10-20 years ago may not be the same thought today.
As for the original post yes I met people online in person who follow the Quranic approach. It was always during the day at a public place shopping centre, cafe and university. Sometimes with a friend or alone or with a group of others.
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Peace Imran.
Who authored the Qoran that the prophet received(the version you believe he received, if you do. )?Is this not a clear question?
Peace Layth and Sarah
Both your posts are blank?.GOD bless you all.
Peace.
