Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. General Issues / Questions
  4. Those their right hands possess verses

Those their right hands possess verses

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
33 Posts 13 Posters 647 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • H Offline
    H Offline
    huruf
    wrote on last edited by
    #22

    No, it is clear tht the Qur'an is pointing to something, making us think. It is not "who is", it may be saying that if you commit zina, you are doing what you do not think you are doing but in fact you are doing, which is commit shirk, but it is not expressing it as you say. "Aw", outside those cases where you make it so, does not mean "who is", you may say that it amounts to that in that aya, but it is not saying that and I do not see how I can make it into that, even if it amounts to that in that case.

    And no, I do not see any contradiction at all, merely it is making something clear and making it clear in such a way that nobody can use social mores and as an escape from God's laws.

    Salaam

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • N Offline
      N Offline
      Novice
      wrote on last edited by
      #23

      No, it is clear tht the Qur'an is pointing to something, making us think. It is not "who is", it may be saying that if you commit zina, you are doing what you do not think you are doing but in fact you are doing, which is commit shirk, but it is not expressing it as you say. "Aw", outside those cases where you make it so, does not mean "who is", you may say that it amounts to that in that aya, but it is not saying that and I do not see how I can make it into that, even if it amounts to that in that case.

      And no, I do not see any contradiction at all, merely it is making something clear and making it clear in such a way that nobody can use social mores and as an escape from God's laws.

      Salaam

      So a zani can marry a mushrik?

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • C Offline
        C Offline
        Cerberus
        wrote on last edited by
        #24

        243 The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress, she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.

        This verse begs a lot of questions;

        How does one earn the label of adulterer ? By engaging in adultery now ? In the past ?

        And if such thing is forbidden for the believers, then what's an adulterer, a non-believer ?

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • H Offline
          H Offline
          huruf
          wrote on last edited by
          #25

          So a zani can marry a mushrik?

          You may say so, I do not say so nor the Qur'an says so. Nothing is contradictory, simply makes something clear, not against something else but just by itself.

          The most you can say is that by the fact of becoming a zani somebody also becomes a mushrik or something that amounts to it. Obviously, yes a zani can marry a mushrik in fact it is the only thing besides another zani that he or she can marry.

          What a zani cannot do is marry a chaste person. You may say, a mushrik can be chaste...

          Yes you may say that. The, what is really a mushrik? A person who says I am a mushrik? And what is a non mushrik? A person who says I am not a mushrik?
          God speaks truth and very cleverly, how faithful is a person by the mere fact of declaring himself mushrik or non mushrik. It is what is in his behaivour and his heart which God knows and people may not know. Because God is not saying marry a person who declares himself mushrik, does not say that... and declaring oneself something, or being called something by somebody else is not the same thing as being something in his inner conviction and self submission and in the knowledge of God.

          ¿Can there be anybody who automatically by becoming voluntarily a zani, does not automatically commit shirk?

          God gives us to think and to scrutinize our own motives. God is not saying in that aya to proclaim anything officially and prohibit people anything to be applied over the spectre and to everybody, He is setting a principle for is each of us, who must speak with our conscience and see that we honestly realise what every one of our acts or ommissions entails. It is not a matter of searching people's lives to find who they can marry and cannot marry according to official law, but whether one oneself is legitimized to marry a person without respect for any commitment to God or to other persons because one physically likes that person very much, because one has fallen in love with her or because one thinks that it is a good match conveniencewise. The latter instance has ruled marriage behaviour in the better off classes of the western world, and I suspect in others also, for a long time, those times where the double-morals were the usual behaviour and also made into written law.

          The aya is not for any ulema to make a ruling but for each of us to examine ourselves and our motives. That is the most fruitful application of the Qur'an, in my view. The ulema and fuqaha may play their part well or wrong but the ultimate conscience is not them but the conscience of each person. On the reverse if most people have honest conscience, laws may turn out also to be more honest. If people are corrupt, forget it, anything will go. But of course we all know this.

          Salaam

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • A Offline
            A Offline
            Abaddon
            wrote on last edited by
            #26

            243 The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress, she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.

            This verse begs a lot of questions;

            How does one earn the label of adulterer ? By engaging in adultery now ? In the past ?

            And if such thing is forbidden for the believers, then what's an adulterer, a non-believer ?

            After the adulterer admits his sin and is punished, may he be considered to be a believer again because of his honesty under the quranic jurisdiction? Because logically speaking Qur'an prohibits adultery, when you go against it you have violated the decree which only a disbeliever could do. Or the temptation was so strong that a pious would instantly demand a punishment under the quranic jurisdiction. And to be fair, there are pious types of human beings which know that atonement is relieving, otherwise you live with that burden the whole life.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • A Offline
              A Offline
              Abdul-Hadi
              wrote on last edited by
              #27

              Greetings and Peace, all group

              Is it not possible that "right hands possess" is a metaphor for those engaged to be married?

              May the Almighty see fit to Guide all seekers.

              peace

              ~Abdul-Hadi

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • J Offline
                J Offline
                Jane
                wrote on last edited by
                #28

                It is possible but...

                How can you possess something you haven't got yet.

                I think it's referring to indentured servants personally. Temporary possession.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • H Offline
                  H Offline
                  huruf
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #29

                  No, nobody possesses anybody else. Grammatically impossible of all impossibility. Read previous messages or threads.

                  Salaam

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • N Offline
                    N Offline
                    Novice
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #30

                    OK, I understand.

                    Could you give some other instance in Qur'an where you would translate "aw" as "who are" or as "who is"?

                    Salaam

                    Salaam sister huruf

                    2562

                    How would you translate "AW" in this ayat? Does it mean "or" or it is explanatory "Aw"?

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • H Offline
                      H Offline
                      huruf
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #31

                      No, I do not see it as explanatory, even though both things can happen at the same time and circumstance, but they are two different things, even if they may be together more often than not. It is like saying that somebody likes the company of a person who is gentle or pleasant. The person may be those things at the same time but it is two different things, that is the point. Two different concepts, even if they may go together in many most or even all circumstances, still it is two different concepts, separable concepts.

                      Salaam

                      Salaam

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • N Offline
                        N Offline
                        Novice
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #32

                        No, I do not see it as explanatory, even though both things can happen at the same time and circumstance, but they are two different things, even if they may be together more often than not. It is like saying that somebody likes the company of a person who is gentle or pleasant. The person may be those things at the same time but it is two different things, that is the point. Two different concepts, even if they may go together in many most or even all circumstances, still it is two different concepts, separable concepts.

                        Salaam

                        Salaam

                        2562

                        Is there a choice between "yazzakara" and "shukura" in this ayat?

                        Salaam

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • H Offline
                          H Offline
                          huruf
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #33

                          2562 وَهُوَ ٱلَّذِى جَعَلَ ٱلَّيۡلَ وَٱلنَّهَارَ خِلۡفَةً۬ لِّمَنۡ أَرَادَ أَن يَذَّڪَّرَ أَوۡ أَرَادَ شُڪُورً۬ا

                          Is there a choice between "yazzakara" and "shukura" in this ayat?

                          Salaam

                          It is not a matter of choice or not choice, two different things, are two different things, whether you choose or not choose or whether it is possible for any parituclar individual to choose or it is not possible to choose or it occurs to him or her even that you have or can choose.

                          Salaam

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          Reply
                          • Reply as topic
                          Log in to reply
                          • Oldest to Newest
                          • Newest to Oldest
                          • Most Votes


                          • Login

                          • Don't have an account? Register

                          • Login or register to search.
                          • First post
                            Last post
                          0
                          • Categories
                          • Recent
                          • Users