Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
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Now it is entering funny area..
أَذْبَحُكَ is slaughter first. --sacrificial slaughter.
وَإِذْ قَالَ مُوسَـىٰ لِقَوْمِهِۦٓ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يَأْمُـرُكُمْ أَن تَذْبَحُوا۟ بَقَرَةٙۖ
لَأُعَذِّبَنَّهُۥ عَذَابٙا شَدِيدٙا أَوْ لَأَا۟ذبَحَنَّهُۥٓ أَوْ لَيَأْتِيَنِّى بِسُلْطَٟنٛ مُّبِيـنٛ .2721
Not now it enters funny area, but it was from the beginning ..those take the verses of God for fun and jest.. Needless to say.. It clearly shows your passion... Perhaps you stubborn having a website not being able to change all your views written in it if agree with truth.. You are stuck without being able to take a U turn... So it shows you are doing it for passion and passtime but you don't realise.. ..
You are the one turning the picture upside down and then questioning others what this picture looks like dude. ...You turned the beautiful topic into funny... Coz your passion and whatever you published in your websites cannot be recalled.. So it looks funny to you even the truth.. What truth you have written in verse 37102 - 110 other than your own passion and funny inclusion from your own additional speculations... I don't mind people like TMTT or waqas giving different interpretations to one word like instead of sacrifice as dedicate.. That's their business and let them realize Eith time the truth of their statement God willed .. But adding nonsense to verses where it has nothing mentuoned is blasphemy which you do...
Do you remember I asked in another topic why you add naturally died animals while Allah has never mentioned word NATURALLY.. You shrewdly skipped.. This is job of passionate people they beat around the bush...
Mammals??? Are you not looking funny like conventional Muslims?
Again.. I reiterate you, if you love Allah truly fear Him and do whatever you do with honesty... I don't see any honesty in your translation and in the way you debate where you show lack of straightforwardness .. I don't mind even if you or wnyone show anger or use even use personal attacks and it happens in human nature in debates, I have seen and everyone has seen but your way is dangerous similar to followers of Hadith .. Making invention.. Do you know how big difference between about to slaughter and slaughtering... You speak at will.. -
Father said to him he sees in dream that he is about to slaughter you.
Did he opine it is what he is being commanded?
Let me remind you one thing brother Mazhar...
Since everyone knows the difference between ABOUT to SLAUGHTER and SLAUGHTERING... Let me ask a question to you and everyone for their evidence purpose..
About to slaughter is not the completion of the task of slaughter.. While slaughtering is completion of the task.. Yes or No? I was about to cook and I am cooking.. Same?
Let's combine COMMAND with ABOUT to SLAUGHTER... if it is a command like you say then Ibrahim's duty is only up to about to slaughter and not less than that or more.. While the dream itself is about to slaughter, how come command be beyond about to slaughter?If you say it was a command then let Ibrahim follow what was commanded... And the command is just to about to slaughter his son and going beyond that is against the literal command which was visioned.. Isn't it logical?
So funny your application of thought.. So my dear believers, our fellow believing brother Mazhar is telling or making us to tell that Ibrahim knew that he is never gonna slaughter but only foreplay... Coz he saw the dream about to slaughter... If he took the dream as command and then follow what he saw in dream... Isn't that fair?
So Mazhar is presenting to us that Father and son was playing a game and Allah not aware their conspiracy and God immediately interfered thinking he would slaughter his innocent son.. Blasphemy...Your thoughts are ever gullible in this story coz you have chosen wrong option.. Truth prevails when truth is exposed.. Falsehood always leaks its weaknesses to those who seek truth with honest though falsehood almost look identical ..
Thank you..
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Let me remind you one thing brother Mazhar...
Since everyone knows the difference between ABOUT to SLAUGHTER and SLAUGHTERING... Let me ask a question to you and everyone for their evidence purpose..
About to slaughter is not the completion of the task of slaughter.. While slaughtering is completion of the task.. Yes or No? I was about to cook and I am cooking.. Same?
Let's combine COMMAND with ABOUT to SLAUGHTER... if it is a command like you say then Ibrahim's duty is only up to about to slaughter and not less than that or more.. While the dream itself is about to slaughter, how come command be beyond about to slaughter?If you say it was a command then let Ibrahim follow what was commanded... And the command is just to about to slaughter his son and going beyond that is against the literal command which was visioned.. Isn't it logical?
So funny your application of thought.. So my dear believers, our fellow believing brother Mazhar is telling or making us to tell that Ibrahim knew that he is never gonna slaughter but only foreplay... Coz he saw the dream about to slaughter... If he took the dream as command and then follow what he saw in dream... Isn't that fair?
So Mazhar is presenting to us that Father and son was playing a game and Allah not aware their conspiracy and God immediately interfered thinking he would slaughter his innocent son.. Blasphemy...Your thoughts are ever gullible in this story coz you have chosen wrong option.. Truth prevails when truth is exposed.. Falsehood always leaks its weaknesses to those who seek truth with honest though falsehood almost look identical ..
Thank you..
It is totally an erroneous way of putting what I said.
He did not slaughtered him in the dream. What he said to son is "He will slaughter him". He did the action later to slaugter him تَلَّهُۥ لِلْجَبِيـنِ. This is ultimate action for slaughtering immediately before cutting the jugular vein. He was all set to slaughter. It is the moment that he is loudly called telling him whatever he had seen in the dream he has already acted upon that.
- Father is repetitively watching a dream doing same act that suggests he is going to sacrifice his son.
- He did not execute his dream. Were he willing to do it, he could have done it on first watch even without bringing into the notice of his son.
- Repetitive dream of same act forces him to take it seriously since the fundamentals of interpretation of dreams suggested it to be not of unconscious and passive nature.
- He places it before his son to know his perception.
- The son interprets it as Command of Allah the Exalted and expresses it in such manner indicating that the Father also had arrived to same conclusion.
- After this consensus, at that point in time, فَلَمَّا أَسْلَمَا when they both had at their own willingly agreed-accepted it as command of Allah the Exalted. Particle Fa is a conjunction indicating cause and effect. Verb is Perfect; Third person; dual; masculine; , Subject pronoun, in nominative state; مصدر اسْلاَمٌ Verbal Noun. For correctly perceiving text about episodes in any language, care needs to be taken for time and space indicated therein.
- It is important to note that the son did not himself lie down but father laid him وَتَلَّهُ لِلْجَبِينِ down in the manner as vertebrates are sacrificed.
- That was the point in time that he hears an emergency call aimed at immediately stopping him from further action.
- Allah the Exalted tells him that he has affirmed, proven it to be exactly what he had seen in dream.
The intention of command through repetitive dreams is also indicated that it was just a manifest trial; and trial as we know is for purposes of exposure of one's sincerity, and for objects to determine their purity percentage. Actual Slaughter of son was not intended as disclosed by Allah the Exalted.
وَفَدَيْنَاهُ بِذِبْحٍ عَظِيم
And Our Majesty compensated him by sacrifice of a male mammal, characteristically great in bone not juvenile but adult—
I do not think that an animal meant for sacrifice has any thing do with what we perceive by the word great. Its primary signification is a state when someone has become great in bone .
It is a long tradition that only adult male mammals are sacrificed as was done by Ibrahim alaihissalm. It also helps balance the population of mammals since extra males are but a problem and nuisance for female population.
This is all from my side. Jewish disposition and slandering of Satanic delusions against the exalted Messenger it is their expression of granted freewill.
Thanks all for patience.
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Let truth prevail and let true believers choose truth from their Lord... Afterall truth is guidance.. Would anytging else be guidance other than truth ? Everyone can read Quran.. Everyone can choose what they want but only one truth... And Allah has already spoken the truth, but the issue is truth has not reached to certain people.. What could be the reason if God nullifies truth from His book unless if Allah wants misguidance?
Guidance is an amazing mercy... For example let me tell you all.. I was brought up from age 6 itself to fast full month fasting skipping food and drink and everyone was doing and it was a custom and got used to it.. Then reached to Quran at certain age and realized something fishy in what we do in the name of Islam.. Slowly but gradually Allah keep guiding me with His book and kept disclosing many hidden truth in it... So as per Quran I started to fast three days few years back and not satisfied ..something is bothering mind... Researched and researched. But research won't give results unless Allah guides.. But at last realized what Siyam in Quran... So these phases I went through in life coz I wanted truth not satisfied to live in falsehood and falsehood from Quran thinking it is right.. That's just one example of seeking truth in my life.. I don't care what you people choose coz I know Allah has to guide to get convinced in right way... So... All I want say is truth is one from God and cannot be more than one. Truth has no second truth... So if Siyam is what I believe in Quran and convinced now then I can't be guided to truth if anyone else thinks Siyam is what he realized... So it is his view. Views are not truth.. Interpretations are not truth but God's guidance is true..
The one who is not confused or not contradictory in his state of mind and guided aright cannot be same... No one knows I am guided or not But God knows and those who realized they are guided knows me.. Coz Guided people all go in one track... Guided believers cannot have different track.. Impossible ..Now let me turn to Ibrahim's story... It was a past actual even took place and our Lord worded them in Quran... Unfortunately we all have many a different understanding and opinion... Can we call we all guided while we differ... Definitely not... In fact who speak against the verses of God cannot be guided be he me or any of you...
So. Seek guidance... But how we know we are guided or not... Only guided one knows that amazing feeling.... Approach God with utmost clean pure heart and I am sure guidance will flow....
Anyone 95% of you won't believe what I say... But who cares.. I love that 5% ...anyway.. Can anyone prove he is guided? Why one need to prove he is guided .... That's why I say guidance is an amazing mercy..
Off topic but relevant...
So who cares whatever one say about these verses while truth only what matters...May Allah guide us... Why we say this if we can achieve it by reading Quran and its grammar.. It's beyond that...
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Compare Verse 37105 with verse 7152...
No reward in both verses.. All what Allah says is that's how / thus we answer / treat ....."
Najszee here is not reward... See my translations as well... Allah treated / answered Ibrahim positively coz he was a good doer in his life...
At the same time in verse 7152 Allah treated / answered negative coz they were evil in their life..So it further clarifies the story of Ibrahim...
Salam... thank you.. -
What of significance does it clarify? Other than a slight change in word.
"...Indeed like thus We recompense the good-doers..."
Reward to recompense.. Not bad..
"Waka zalika Najszee al muhsineen" is not stated by Allah for One action of a person but the person himself is a muhsin ever .. And Allah had no connection when He stated above clause to the action of Abraham with his son.. But Allah knows Ibrahim is a muhsin and that's why Allah treated (Najszee) Ibrahim positively and pleasantly by delivering/restituting him (wafaddainahu) ..
Becoming muhsineen is not simple and Allah treat Muhsineen positively.. Without any action preceded also Allah use this clause after Allah Himself doing something to Muhsineen.. Refer verse 684... So don't misjudge the clause thinking that Allah stated the clause coz of Ibrahim's particular action but coz Ibrahim was Muhsin purely ...
... Only with deep reflection one can perceive this... Allah doesn't like muhsineen misjudge matters .."... Like thus We treat / respond to the good doers... "
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Reward to recompense.. Not bad..
"Waka zalika Najszee al muhsineen" is not stated by Allah for One action of a person but the person himself is a muhsin ever .. And Allah had no connection when He stated above clause to the action of Abraham with his son.. But Allah knows Ibrahim is a muhsin and that's why Allah treated (Najszee) Ibrahim positively and pleasantly by delivering/restituting him (wafaddainahu) ..
Becoming muhsineen is not simple and Allah treat Muhsineen positively.. Without any action preceded also Allah use this clause after Allah Himself doing something to Muhsineen.. Refer verse 684... So don't misjudge the clause thinking that Allah stated the clause coz of Ibrahim's particular action but coz Ibrahim was Muhsin purely ...
... Only with deep reflection one can perceive this... Allah doesn't like muhsineen misjudge matters .."... Like thus We treat / respond to the good doers... "
Also I missed out to mention that jīm zāy yā and Alif Jim Raa are two separate words...
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That time of the year according to Traditional Islam.
Why it is relevant when Haj is taking place in Makka?
Do you think Quran verses are relevant when some people are converged to certain place and claim they perform Haj...
by the way... have you ever done conventional haj? Would you mind anyone doing this ritual or vehemently against this ritual since you have any evidence against it....
I think you better close this topic.. lol laugh unless you have something new to say.. my opinion and not any compelling..
handshake -
You can read my hajj article here
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlQuote
Summary and Discussional HaJJ ~ the symposium/feast/homage/commemoration
Taking the above review of occurrences into account, a summarised reference list of the information extracted about the HaJJ is shown below
When
occurs within the ashur(plural of shahr) well known i.e. the four inviolable/restricted months
the crescent/new moons are used as set times for itGuidelines
the principal requirement the position of the shelter and of those hosting it is that nothing is associated with God i.e. monotheism
can take place at a shelter wherein this criteria is met
done for God
during this time there is an amnesty/truce in place if there are warring parties (self-defence is still allowed however)
this type of event will nurture a sense of brotherhood amongst monotheists/believers, provide opportunity to witness benefits, remember/mention/thank/magnify God, spend in the way of God and do goodParticipants
it is open to all mankind (who are willing to abide by the laws of the land) - for whoever is able to make a way to it
if you wish to go but are prevented then send whatever is easy of gift/offering (with a representative) - if unable to do this then one can redeem by way of abstinence/charity/sacrificeUndertaking HaJJ
for monotheists - those wishing to uphold the salat/bond and bring forth betterment
no sex/wrongdoing/quarreling - this may aid the positive atmosphere and one's spiritual experience
bring provision
one's state of mind should be piety/conscientiousness/forethoughtfulness/taqwa and sincere/straightforward
can be done in 2 days but typically would be 3-10 days, and one's obligation is fulfilled after the act of animal slaughter and feeding those in needVisitors
if you enjoyed in the visit to the HaJJ then give whatever is easy of gift/offering - if unable then abstinence 3 days during + 7 when you return = 10 completeActivities
one may seek bounty (i.e. worldly benefit, e.g. trade), get to know one another, go about the place, remember/mention/thank/magnify God, if doing HaJJ slaughter an animal to eat and share with the needyOther articles
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/ -
//When
occurs within the ashur(plural of shahr) well known i.e. the four inviolable/restricted months
the crescent/new moons are used as set times for it //ٱلْحَجُّ أَشْهُرٚ مَّعْلُومَٟتٚۚ
أَشْهُرٚ مَّعْلُومَٟتٚۚ It is adjectival phrase. أَشْهُرٚ signifies most famous --most well known.
مَّعْلُومَٟتٚۚ is adjective and is passive participle. Information made known.It does not mean months.
وَأَذِّن فِـى ٱلنَّاسِ بِٱلْحَجِّ
And you (Iebra'heim alai'his'slaam) make a proclamationin the people for the performance of Hu'j Pilgrimage to the House of Allah the Exalted (Ka'aba) —
يَأْتُوكَ رِجَالٙا وَعَلَـىٰ كُلِّ ضَامِرٛ يَأْتِيـنَ مِن كُلِّ فَجٍّ عَميِقٛ .ٌ٢٧
(Know it) They will come to you on foot from nearby vicinity; and people will come riding upon every available swift ride; such carriers will come from every deep and distant mountain highways —
لِّيَشْهَدُوا۟ مَنَٟفِعَ لَـهُـمْ
So that they may witness benefits for them —
وَيَذْكُرُوا۟ ٱسْمَ ٱللَّهِ فِـىٓ أَيَّامٛ مَّعْلُومَٟتٍٛ عَلَـىٰ مَا رَزَقَهُـم مِّنۢ بَـهِيمَةِ ٱلۡأَنْعَٟمِ
And so that they mention the name of Allah the Exalted during the appointed days upon herbivorous mammals who are stout bodied and make half-nasal half-throaty voice, which He the Exalted has provided them as sustenance, while slaughtering - sacrificing them —
فَكُلُوا۟ مِنْـهَا وَأَطْعِمُوا۟ ٱلْبَآئِسَ ٱلْفَقِيـرَ .ٌ٢٨
Whereupon you people eat part of them and feed the destitute needy.
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You can read my hajj article here
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-hajj-Quran.htmlQuote
Summary and Discussional HaJJ ~ the symposium/feast/homage/commemoration
Taking the above review of occurrences into account, a summarised reference list of the information extracted about the HaJJ is shown below
When
occurs within the ashur(plural of shahr) well known i.e. the four inviolable/restricted months
the crescent/new moons are used as set times for itGuidelines
the principal requirement the position of the shelter and of those hosting it is that nothing is associated with God i.e. monotheism
can take place at a shelter wherein this criteria is met
done for God
during this time there is an amnesty/truce in place if there are warring parties (self-defence is still allowed however)
this type of event will nurture a sense of brotherhood amongst monotheists/believers, provide opportunity to witness benefits, remember/mention/thank/magnify God, spend in the way of God and do goodParticipants
it is open to all mankind (who are willing to abide by the laws of the land) - for whoever is able to make a way to it
if you wish to go but are prevented then send whatever is easy of gift/offering (with a representative) - if unable to do this then one can redeem by way of abstinence/charity/sacrificeUndertaking HaJJ
for monotheists - those wishing to uphold the salat/bond and bring forth betterment
no sex/wrongdoing/quarreling - this may aid the positive atmosphere and one's spiritual experience
bring provision
one's state of mind should be piety/conscientiousness/forethoughtfulness/taqwa and sincere/straightforward
can be done in 2 days but typically would be 3-10 days, and one's obligation is fulfilled after the act of animal slaughter and feeding those in needVisitors
if you enjoyed in the visit to the HaJJ then give whatever is easy of gift/offering - if unable then abstinence 3 days during + 7 when you return = 10 completeActivities
one may seek bounty (i.e. worldly benefit, e.g. trade), get to know one another, go about the place, remember/mention/thank/magnify God, if doing HaJJ slaughter an animal to eat and share with the needyOther articles
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Why it is relevant when Haj is taking place in Makka?
Do you think Quran verses are relevant when some people are converged to certain place and claim they perform Haj...
by the way... have you ever done conventional haj? Would you mind anyone doing this ritual or vehemently against this ritual since you have any evidence against it....
I think you better close this topic.. lol laugh unless you have something new to say.. my opinion and not any compelling..
handshakeDear Wakas,
What are the four Restricted months which the Quran talks about
God bless
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Dear Wakas,
What are the four Restricted months which the Quran talks about
God bless
It's a very good question.. But for us now there is no answer but whatever they were, they were continuous 4 months..
The day Allah created everything four months were restricted for whatever reasons.. And this was well known to people where Ibrahim lived and then onward Haj/debate on Monotheism continued with all prophets.. Allah doesn't need to re-confirm those well-known months which are restricted.. And with Mohamed's demise Haj/debate ended and restricted months changed and people invented...and Haj became a ritual of latest group...
That's my view Brother Centi50... patiently wait for Brother Waqas's reply..
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It's a very good question.. But for us now there is no answer but whatever they were, they were continuous 4 months..
The day Allah created everything four months were restricted for whatever reasons.. And this was well known to people where Ibrahim lived and then onward Haj/debate on Monotheism continued with all prophets.. Allah doesn't need to re-confirm those well-known months which are restricted.. And with Mohamed's demise Haj/debate ended and restricted months changed and people invented...and Haj became a ritual of latest group...
That's my view Brother Centi50... patiently wait for Brother Waqas's reply..
Salam Jkhan
Thanks for the reply. This is one of the Satanic book of hadiths throw to us. If Quran is complete where do we find the four restricted months.
I will wait for Wakas and any member who can have an idea of what these months are.
God bless you
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I think, in the pre islamic current calendar, Ramadan Month, Should fall around September to October, during which the moon will be bright and bigger as the month name suggests, ie. the Harvest moon period and this month is the breeding season, when hunting or even eating nonveg is prohibited in different communities, as the small ones needs to survive, for the sustainable natural availability of food for everyone. Seasons do affect any pilgrimage customs, as the rivers starts seeing more water after rainy seaons and crossing those will be difficult, so this also should be considered for pilgrimage and travel, also season of pilgrimage should be pleasant one and not the harsh summer. So I think the Hajj falling on December month should be right.
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peace,
I have not really studied when during the year the four inviolable months/moon-cycles/full-moons are but Quran strongly suggests they are consecutive e.g.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610235.0
Read all thread and post by bro Ayman.
I am writing an article on it currently. Here is an interesting snippet
Quote
Quran 91-2 mentions an acquittal/release from a treaty with some polytheists and tells them they have amnesty/ceasefire for 4 months/moons and then in 93 it mentions this announcement on the greatest day of the hajj or day of the greatest hajj (doesn't seem to matter which interpretation is chosen) but follows in 95 by saying when the plural inviolable months/moons have peeled/stripped-off/passed (see Project Root Llist for further evidence of the consecutive nature of this word "inSaLaKHha" then those who broke the treaty can be fought. Note the Arabic plural means 3 or more.
I initially thought The Quran was repeating the same acquittal/release in 91 in 93 again but I should have realised Quran's word precision is there for a reason. The 1st time it mentions 4 months, 2nd time it mentions when 3 or more inviolable months have peeled away. Also note how the beginning of each verse 93, 94 and 95 are linked to each other.
Thus the wording from 91-5 suggests the clear possibility that the 4 inviolable months/moons begin - then on the 2nd inviolable moon/month the hajj/homage periods can begin. This aligns with 2197 which states "hajj are the months (plural ashurun) well known". Remember the Arabic plural is 3 or more thus a minimum of 3 months/moons are allowed for hajj. If so this would match with 91-5.
The question then becomes what could be the first month/moon of the inviolable months/moons (if the last 3 are for the hajj)? The only other "named/described" month/moon given in Quran is "shahr ramadan" so this becomes the obvious candidate.It just so happens when The Quran introduces "shahr ramadan" and then "al hajj" in chapter 2 it is in this order, i.e. ramadan first then discusses hajj.
We can prove from Quran that "al hajj" and "ramadan" do not coincide (i.e. same month/moon) because in the nights of abstinence one is allowed sexual relations with one's spouse (2187) but when one is undertaking "al hajj" this is not allowed (2197) and is only allowed after one fulfills/completes their hajj (which is a minimum of 2 days) see 2203. Also see 2196 in which abstinence is given as an option for expiation but this would make little sense if one was already abstaining/fasting in ramadan. And lastly exemption is given for abstinence if traveling but undertaking the hajj would likely involve traveling so seems a mixed message.
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I am writing an article on it currently. Here is an interesting snippet
Quote
Quran 91-2 mentions an acquittal/release from a treaty with some polytheists and tells them they have amnesty/ceasefire for 4 months/moons and then in 93 it mentions this announcement on the greatest day of the hajj or day of the greatest hajj (doesn't seem to matter which interpretation is chosen) but follows in 95 by saying when the plural inviolable months/moons have peeled/stripped-off/passed (see Project Root Llist for further evidence of the consecutive nature of this word "inSaLaKHha" then those who broke the treaty can be fought. Note the Arabic plural means 3 or more.
I initially thought The Quran was repeating the same acquittal/release in 91 in 93 again but I should have realised Quran's word precision is there for a reason. The 1st time it mentions 4 months, 2nd time it mentions when 3 or more inviolable months have peeled away. Also note how the beginning of each verse 93, 94 and 95 are linked to each other.
Thus the wording from 91-5 suggests the clear possibility that the 4 inviolable months/moons begin - then on the 2nd inviolable moon/month the hajj/homage periods can begin. This aligns with 2197 which states "hajj are the months (plural ashurun) well known". Remember the Arabic plural is 3 or more thus a minimum of 3 months/moons are allowed for hajj. If so this would match with 91-5.
The question then becomes what could be the first month/moon of the inviolable months/moons (if the last 3 are for the hajj)? The only other "named/described" month/moon given in Quran is "shahr ramadan" so this becomes the obvious candidate.It just so happens when The Quran introduces "shahr ramadan" and then "al hajj" in chapter 2 it is in this order, i.e. ramadan first then discusses hajj.
We can prove from Quran that "al hajj" and "ramadan" do not coincide (i.e. same month/moon) because in the nights of abstinence one is allowed sexual relations with one's spouse (2187) but when one is undertaking "al hajj" this is not allowed (2197) and is only allowed after one fulfills/completes their hajj (which is a minimum of 2 days) see 2203. Also see 2196 in which abstinence is given as an option for expiation but this would make little sense if one was already abstaining/fasting in ramadan. And lastly exemption is given for abstinence if traveling but undertaking the hajj would likely involve traveling so seems a mixed message.
Salam Wakas,
Did you finish your article on the subject of the four restricted months?
God bless
