Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son? - Eid Al Adha
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peace Iyyaka,
Your claim of symmetry, two narrative blocks, and there being two sacrifices in each block is built entirely upon your subjective interpretation. For example you said "1. "Sacrifice" of Abraham to his people and his father after denying idols by arguing with them => A definitive separation"
In what way is this a sacrifice?
When it comes to interpreting Quran, I find that sticking with what is solid (and objective as possible) first, then building on that solid foundation is the best approach, not the other way around, i.e. using subjective/unverifiable methods to build one's understanding on.
Sorry but my proofs are only quranic - the signs from allah are there. No subjective interpretation just literal context proofs.
As i said i don't believe, under quranic control, at a "PHYSICAL sacrifice", even in dream, between Abraham and Ismael. You can sacrifice your life to spread the message of Allah..as all the messenger.
If the word "sacrifice" disturb you you can use "to devoted yourself to a cause..".We must separate 2 thinks
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First the "sacrifice" of Abraham and Ismael for Allah and specially to call people to visit "the first bouse of gathering" and purify it (not the Kaaba but a place well define) where Ismal stayed live at this place for the rest of his life.
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Abraham built with the help of Ismael an altar (Kaaba) as a symbol (the arabic word "shaʿār" - visible) of offering animals for defined days every year to thank Allah for his blessings and to feed the poor.
=> 595
"...and to make it as a donation to reach/as-an-offering-to the Ka'aba..." => So clear, no subjective idea.
And the root word of Ka'aba can refer to the ankle (high and full and useful/beneficial) or the firm and rounded boobs of young woman. (This 2 examples are also in the Quran not in my imagination).
if you do not believe that allah gives you signs by the structuring of his speech and the links that he makes even through different suras then it is your right, BUT from there to declare that it is a SUBJECTIVE method I think that it is a counterproductive manner and a no-Quranic argument ("Does they meditate ?", which does not profit in advancing the truth.
NB just a precision => The quranic Word "Ka'aba" does not fit with what traditional Muslims call Ka'aba at modern Mecca
Peace
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Salam!
I agree that Ibrahim was to leave his sons. There is no sacrifice of animal or human. ذبح عظیم means great separation/splitting.
May be it is talking about the death of Ibrahim AS. Not sure.
Peace! -
Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son?
New article - click HEREFeedback welcome, especially corrections. Thanks.
Peace Wakas...
For me your article seems very interesting... but i will go through again when i have time...
For everyone if you say that dream is not from God, then i cannot agree to it... whatever the dreams mentioned in quran (many right) all seems from God... Story may end sad but from God... But i don't personally whatever the dreams people used to see in their life is from God or not..expect an answer to it..
For example two prisoners saw dreams and they were explained by dream specialist Yousuf and what they saw in the turned out to be as true predictions.. There could be meaningful dreams which really gives concerns to people... we used to see dreams and not even remember what they are, but very few dreams it touches our heart and hovers around to see what it could be...Finally as per quran non of the dreams stated in it is not from satan or any other forces.. but from God... But all dreams will have meaning or not.. no clue.. Ibrahim was not a dream specialist.. we don't see it in quran directly applying it to him.. And all messages won't come through dreams.. If allah want to talk to a human to pass a message there is three way according to verse 4251...
So dreams are kind of indirect hint that God may send us, but not always... it is not our duty to believe in them unless there is an authority given... example Yousuf.. people could have asked from him since God has taught him and it is an authority.. But Abraham never had such capacity which we are not told through quran...
In fact if Abraham saw was something that has to performed, Abraham could have waited till a messenger comes to him and reveal - (if you take the story as sacrifice)
But i think what waqas telling is a different story and ..... that is something to ponder... coz Abraham took the dream from God and implemented it without any direct message being delivered...After all he was a messenger and any orders of such extent would have directly come to him through a messenger... But ibrahm believed the dream ...
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"My Lord, grant me from the righteous." ~~~ He was righteous..wasn’t he?
So We gave him good news of a compassionate child. ~~~ God gave good news… does God need to give him a bad news when he grows up?
So when he reached the age of striving/working (with him), he said "Indeed I have seen in sleep/dream that I am sacrificing you, so look what you see?" He said "O my father, do what you are commanded (you will)find me, if God willed, of the patient ones." ~~~ what Ibrahim saw was a dream and not a command.. Will ever Allah command anything to any messenger through Dream.. Allah may show dreams and dreams may come true.. but will Allah ever order to do what a person saw in dream (which is practically unconscious)… Ismail is righteous child and compassionate.. he would obey his father for sure and of course more than that Ibrahim was a messenger and need to obey..But Ismail was a not a grown man (refer musa grown man verse)… so Ismail said, “Do what you are COMMANDED” Is it really a command from God for Ibrahim to practice? No.. Unless any such command was given to Ibrahim through dream previously. 4251 denies anyhow.. “Ismail further said (You will) find me if God will of the patient”… Yes Dear Waqas He cant be patient after he was killed.. But Till Ibrahim implement what he has seen in the dream, Ismail can be utterly patient till he face it.. not to escape or deny.. That is real patience.. while being with his father and knowing he is gonna kill him….And He was in fact patient..
The dream (Mana) of Mohamed was not a command.. it was just an encouragement and even doubtful Mohamed knew that it was from Allah until the verse was revealed saying it..and in the end what Mohamed saw was not real coz reality was different but encouraged..
So when they both submitted and he (Abraham) brought* him (son) to*** his (Abraham's) forehead (or side of head). ~~~ So they both (Aslama – Surrendered not submited) to execute the task… How do you decide that He brought Ismail to Abrahm’s forehead? Does Arabic verse give you a clear cut meaning to accept that Abraham’s head.. why can’t it be Ismail’s head…
And We called him "O Abraham," ~~~ Most significant part.. pls answer Mr. Waqas.. Why God through a Messenger (coz WE is used) should call “O Ibrahim” when actually Ibrahim took Ismail to his forehead… God could have called Ibrahim once Ismail actually leaving him if you take the meaning in that way.. God called Ibrahim at the right time to avoid and save from a great disaster .. That suits as most of the quran believers accept… What is the point of isolating a not fully grown man from him if it was the real meaning of it?
"Surely you have believed/confirmed the vision." Indeed like thus We reward the righteous/good-doers. ~~~ What was said to Ibrahim by calling him … said “you believed the vision”.. If it was a command from God, why the command was cancelled by calling at Ibrahim? What was the reward after cancelling a command? I consider it cancelled with the flow of verses coz he was ransomed of a disastrous sacrifice…The dream doesn’t state that should be left alone on his journey. Ibrahim doesn’t need to send him alone.. He could have properly took him to the place where he should be left. 1437 doesn’t say just leaving anyone … it is stated “ I have SETTLED some of my Progeny ..” huge difference to above..Remember God calling 37104 O’ Ibrahim.. while Ibrahim calling 1437“O our Lord, I have settled” totally contrary… These are two incidents..
Surely this (was) a clear trial. ~~~~ of course it was a trial and a great one which Ibrahim trapped but God saved both and it was a reward and great favor and specially for Righteous like Ibrahim when he was in dilemma …We all are put to test but not always you will find God save from our evil act without knowledge..Ibrahim was favored..And We ransomed/exchanged him with/for a mighty/great sacrifice. ~~~ what God ransomed was in fact great and it could have been a DISASTROUS sacrifice… not at all a great (highly valued) sacrifice… but ismail was saved and ransomed of a disastrous/great(great in the bad aspect) sacrifice…Why take Azeem as good side of GREAT why not bad side of great..
Further Ismail was not isolated as we can see Abrahim and ismail together raised foundation of the house (whatever it is)…Abrahim established the house and were entrusted to keep it clean and tidy.. and Ibrahim SETTLED remember some of his Progeny.. big difference it makes to your view when we compare the word settled? It was not like Ibrahim isolated his son in a sad and horrible way to consider it a great matter..that’s barbaric act…Even the dream was not such to leave him in a barbaric manner. So how he could take him to his forehead and say bye bye…that’s bizarre..
Anyhow it is interesting your research... but not convincing and i would remain with the conventional understanding...but definitely not sacrificing animal remembering Abrahim and ismalil and resorting to Makka... all nonsense..
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peace jkhan,
Re
what Ibrahim saw was a dream and not a command.. Will ever Allah command anything to any messenger through Dream.....
....so Ismail said, “Do what you are COMMANDED” Is it really a command from God for Ibrahim to practice? No.. Unless any such command was given to Ibrahim through dream previously. 4251 denies anyhow.. ...- we have very few examples of dreams of messengers in Quran thus unable to claim with certainty God never commands through dream.
- there does not need to be a prior command via dream for this to be accepted as one.
- his son clearly interpreted it as a command (or something Abraham is expected to do) and so did Abraham, thus I would rather take their view on it than claim they made a mistake and we know better.
- 4251 doesn't exclude anything. It would only exclude it if it was explicitly stated dreams do not fall within these categories.
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How do you decide that He brought Ismail to Abrahm’s forehead? Does Arabic verse give you a clear cut meaning to accept that Abraham’s head.. why can’t it be Ismail’s head…
Both before and after this part, the one spoken of is Abraham. To suggest otherwise will be inserting a break in addressee without any reason.
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Why God through a Messenger (coz WE is used) should call “O Ibrahim” when actually Ibrahim took Ismail to his forehead… God could have called Ibrahim once Ismail actually leaving him if you take the meaning in that way.. God called Ibrahim at the right time to avoid and save from a great disaster
It doesn't say when he was called but I have no issue if it was during or immediately after this goodbye embrace. If we take your view, one could argue why not call to him as Abraham raised the knife/sword etc (i.e. last minute). The fact that you consider it your "most significant part" indicates your objections to my position is weak.
I considered your other points poor/irrelevant, hence no reply. If you think they are, perhaps you can articulate them better, keeping it concise.
Also, you consistently kept referring to the "sacrifice son" as Ishmael. There is no Quranic evidence of this.
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Dear Brother Waqas,
Thank you for taking your valuable time to respond my concerns..
Btw your article is interesting but honestly not convincing coz it doesn’t convince me, I have no idea about others..but many of your articles have convinced me and I verified it with quran..-
we have very few examples of dreams of messengers in Quran thus unable to claim with certainty God never commands through dream. ~~~..yeah.. that’s the truth.. then why you claim so that it was a command? God says wait till my command comes… messengers have waited though the followers were in a hurry..how do you judge on what God has not taught you ? Has God taught you to take the dream/s as command or is it in quran? That will put any one in great confusion … confusion is not command, but commands are clear .. only three ways 4251
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there does not need to be a prior command via dream for this to be accepted as one. ~~~ who gave you this authority? I am serious.. how you conclude it? Give Quranic proof to go in line as you always write in articles..
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his son clearly interpreted it as a command (or something Abraham is expected to do) and so did Abraham, thus I would rather take their view on it than claim they made a mistake and we know better.~~~ His son didn’t know anything.. do you agree.. Everything was Abraham’s mere decision.. That’s’ why His son said “Do what you are commanded…” No command to his son or no information and totally nothing…And no evidence of proof sending a Messenger .. no confirmation.. merely Abraham’s dream for which Abraham was asking sort of PERMISION from his son.. wasn’t he? “so look what you see” this is what Abraham said.. so needs his son’s permission.. in case His son refused then Allah’s command is nullified.. How can a messenger nullify a command from God just coz his son doesn’t agree?
See the end… God only said to Abrahm “ You believed the dream” no reward nothing to his son… who is more sacrificing person here Abraham or His son.. be it isolating him or sacrificing… His son is key and not Abrahim.. without his son acknowledgement nothing would happen out there.. -
4251 doesn't exclude anything. It would only exclude it if it was explicitly stated dreams do not fall within these categories. ~~~ Yes.. that’s what I emphasize… no believer can take anything as command unless God has spoken to someone in any of the medium which 4251 refers..no need any explicit explanation from God while He crystal clearly said in 4251.. So.. God won’t talk to any human being including Ibrahim other than those three medium… Dreams are not God’s command and any orders that we have to take into our life… you can only go for interpretation of dreams with someone who is authorized..
Further what you mean other irrelevant points?... may be you referring the word Azeem..
You have no clue in your article about “He was ransomed / exchanged with / of mighty / great sacrifice…no connection to your story by this verse..
Dear it is of course physical sacrifice God referred… No other meaning you can get it.. dhāl bā ḥā (ذ ب ح) (entire quran either slaughter / sacrifice) so stick with it.. don't deviate.. Just look at the verse 5646 where Azeem appears.. does that mean Mighty / Great Sin in a positive sense… no way.. that is something of unpleasant, evil oriented Azeem…Same way God absolutely delivered Abraham’s Son form a Azeem (Great) grievous Sacrifice.. That’s perfect.. claiming separation is fine from your end, but you can’t end with the verse 37107 – He was ransomed of a Horrible Sacrifice.. read the verse 5646 or similar to get a clear picture what the Azeem + sacrifice may mean…
Finally you stated that I was kept using Ismail..yeah sorry.. but your article started saying about Eid Al Adha and conventional and majority of muslims practices… so what they practice is connected with Abraham and Ismail..You can’t be referring any other while you are talking about them…. Anyhow lets stick with quran… hope any of the son of Abrahm..
Folks.. anyway.. it is not a big deal like the creation of heavens and earth and distorting them... Ibrahim knows what actually he did so did his son.. it won't harm our belief... so let people raise opinions... but i love sticking with quran's immaculate meaning.. coz it is only one meaning intended by God.. Not me and Waqas be right... only one God intended meaning ... lets approach for it...
handshakeSorry... in addition to that the complete chapter 37 is talking about delivering messengers and people from Great disasters... and ibrahim ans ismail is no exception... pls members who have not read the chapter fully, read when you have time...
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peace jkhan,
Re 2)
It's simple. If we take your position, then every single event in Quran that occurs once cannot be accepted (because it doesn't have a prior example), e.g. God speaking with Moses, angels submitting to adam etc etc etc etc the list is endless. If you think this line of reasoning has merit, each to their own.Re 4)
I dont think you understand 4251. All you need to ask yourself is are dreams explicitly excluded in 4251. Answer is obviously no. It could easily fall under wahy or from behind a barrier.
You say "you can only go for interpretation of dreams with someone who is authorized.." Exactly, see 126. Messengers/prophets are in unique situation, having unique access to the divine. I guess for you its just another coincidence that Abraham/Isaac are mentioned in 126 in the context of Joseph's dream and the ability to interpret narratives.You said "You have no clue in your article about “He was ransomed / exchanged with / of mighty / great sacrifice…no connection to your story by this verse.."
I recommend re-reading the article, quote "In the Abraham leaving scenario the "great/mighty sacrifice" would refer to the great sacrifice Abraham made by leaving his beloved son, making it a self-contained explanation."It's interesting how you say "no clue" when your interpretation involves a madeup ram/goat inserted into the context and no-one knows why it's mighty/great/azeem. Even by your own argument this ram would have to be "evil-oriented" / "unpleasant" in some way. Whoops. I leave these problems in your view for you to resolve.
At the end of the day, for me it's real simple I look at the options and determine which one is the most sound / least problematic, then go with that option. Each to their own.
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And We ransomed/exchanged him (son or Abraham?) with/for a mighty/great sacrifice.
I forgot to say, upon re-examining 37107 it seems the pronoun "hu" could refer to either Abraham or his son. It's traditionally taken to refer to his son, but the flow/context suggests Abraham.
Either way it works for my view, however for the ram sacrifice exchange story, it only works if it refers to his son.
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Dear waqas... Peace...
Foremost we have to keep in mind that this was a real story and it happened in the life of Ibrahim and his son.. The story God explained to us inserting in Quran.. And quran is meant for guidance.. You can give one story and I can give another but only one thing happened... Are you without slight doubt ensure to everyone that what is written is right in your view point.. Then you are responsible for it.. But in my case I am only refuting what you have written based on my understanding of Quran.. I may be wrong and be right..
This is one of the bad aspect when it comes to grasp quran in its pure meaning.. This is where sometimes I feel may be God used the word ulama (learned ones) pointing at the isreal community.. Saying that they would have known quran ... So to know QURAN guidance plus being literate throughly in the subject is kind of criteria..
So sites like this can be utilized to it's maximum.. Coz most of the people here are literate and most of them have studied quran and explored... So even a expert person make a mistake another may able to point his her error... But unfortunately I don't see a concerted effort by a majority in this forum to nullify a wrong point or accept a right thing... That should be here.. If we are real believers.. Coz this site shouldn't serve for confusion.. Finally after every debate either this or that should be the right thing... And chapter close.. If no one knows.. Let it be...
Certain important topics argued and gone nowhere and in great confusion for any minow or someone who lacks vast knowledge in Quran... He or she will end up clueless..
Is quran so ambiguous so we all have different conviction on almost all points being still quran based believers.. .. Or else we have to self satisfied saying God only knows... Or are we adamant and eccentric to claim I am right you are wrong... Or else there is no value in this forum coz in the what would person take as a right thing... Or such forums are useless and better be reading Quran and beg from God for guidance.. And be satisfied with what He guided.. So no one is giving wrong info to any other believer... But God encourage to argue and spread truth... I honestly feel in this forum there should be a concerted meaning with majority after comprehensive discourses... For that everyone who read the forum better participate..I hope everyone get my concern in right n positive way...
For example I remember we argued meat of swine... What actually QURAN explained.. The reader of this forum after few years, what he should take and leave.. It is his own decision.. Or let him go dissapointed without knowing what is right.
Coz there cannot be two sides among believers with one QURAN.. Otherwise I am afraid as of everything among QURAN believers there will be thousands of sect in future... Why we can't get together to give one meaning to this Quran... Coz definitely meant one meaning... It is not ambiguous...Yes.. It's free minds web... So let everyone make their view... Will there be guidance in this way... God's knows best...
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Foremost we have to keep in mind that this was a real story and it happened in the life of Ibrahim and his son.. The story God explained to us inserting in Quran.. And quran is meant for guidance.. You can give one story and I can give another but only one thing happened.
Ayah 100-113 is a Narrative. Narrative is a Factual Recount. Narrative texts have to do with real-world events and time. The purposes of narrative may be to inform, to persuade and/or to correct the record, rectify the falsities gleaned by people from the Epistemology of Testimony. The main structural components of a narrative are the orientation, the complication and the resolution, and may include a concluding statement or comment in order to sum up the message.
Narrative writing uses time as its deep structure. Language features of narrative text are
Adverb of time.
Past Tense is used except in conversations.
Time conjunction (when, then, thereat, suddenly, etc)
Specific character. The character of the episode is specific, not general.
Action verbs. A verb that shows an action.
Direct speech. It is to make the episode lively.
The vocabulary is usually everyday language, depending on the subject matter.
When we keep such basic academic points, we can watch the event in the text.
The problem is generally people are not interested in reading and interpreting Qur'an by following basic academic rules.
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peace Mazhar,
The problem is generally people are not interested in reading and interpreting Qur'an by following basic academic rules.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.html
Not sure if you are referring to my view but please state your strongest objection to the article, and please keep it clear, concise and evidenced, thanks.
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peace Mazhar,
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.html
Not sure if you are referring to my view but please state your strongest objection to the article, and please keep it clear, concise and evidenced, thanks.
Please see "generally".
By the way what precisely is your view on Ayah 100-113, a synopsis pl.
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By the way what precisely is your view on Ayah 100-113, a synopsis pl.
In my article I helpfully provide a short summary
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.htmlQuote
The Quranic evidence suggests that God tested Abraham with a dream in which he saw himself literally sacrificing his son. However both Abraham and his son correctly understood its meaning/significance, and when Abraham confirmed the vision by leaving his son he/they was rewarded. -
In my article I helpfully provide a short summary
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.htmlQuote
The Quranic evidence suggests that God tested Abraham with a dream in which he saw himself literally sacrificing his son. However both Abraham and his son correctly understood its meaning/significance, and when Abraham confirmed the vision by leaving his son he/they was rewarded.What is it so strong to support your claim while requesting to bring strong proof to negate… I am one of those who negate since your claim is below par… let everyone know humbly what is the strongest evidence in your entire claim that is incontrovertibly truthful….when negated you better bring the strongest to still go in line with you thought… I don’t perceive anything.. I am not against you personally Mr. Waqas… I am someone who takes the truth regardless of who presents it… You have tried out at the expense of ironing out the appalling image Prophet Ibrahim represent by accepting he almost slaughtered his own son… But that was the case… May be personally for you it doesn’t digest that something of that nature do exist in quran… But Ibrahim had a different character.. one of the rarest of those… that’s why I consider in my liking as the best… another example is demolishing all statues of gods… that’s too much… that’s his character…
At least observe some of the stories presented in the same chapter with such identical phrases.. “” Thus (We) reward the Good-doers “” ~~~~~ “ We left for him among later generations”” ~~~~~
These are regular typical phrases used in this chapter not only for Ibrahim’s story… and in my understanding I see the stories are Ddelivering the messengers + the people from some Great Disasters (either from God’s side or peoples’ or even self – all three involved)… after saving from such disaster God uses the above phrases here and there…very fair comments above are… Aren’t they?
Even .. in the same stories Ibrahim has got two stories apart from the topic.. that is Ibrahim being put in fire and he was delivered / saved from that great disaster… Your story doesn’t tally with the flow of Quranic intent.. Is it?
I advise you Mr. Waqas… leave every positive thoughts and go back to zero and read the chapter again.. and let us know…. And if still you are satisfied…. Then you must have that strongest evidence you yourself found… up to you…. Remember your view or our view should never misguide anyone directly or indirectly… pls explore more for the sake of truth…. May be your further research may convince every one of us or you may turn to otherwise… Believers won’t feel shy to accept the truth even the one they argued previously against / for it… Honestly with all evidences in the very chapter 037,, I don’t see any other than slaughter… It may be the understanding of conventional Muslims, but that’s harmless… No slaughtering of animal is at all involved in the verses as conventional claim..…. thank you for reading…
Don't Rush .... take your time... i know you are an asset to this forum... you have depth knowledge...Peace...let truth overcome and May God guide us with quran's immaculate / unblemished meaning...
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In my article I helpfully provide a short summary
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.htmlQuote
The Quranic evidence suggests that God tested Abraham with a dream in which he saw himself literally sacrificing his son. However both Abraham and his son correctly understood its meaning/significance, and when Abraham confirmed the vision by leaving his son he/they was rewarded.I had read it in the link. I wanted you give a second thought and rephrase it since this conclusion suffers ambiguity. It shows as if the person was being tested in his ability about interpretation of dreams.
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peace jkhan,
If you prefer, we can have a separate thread (linked to from this thread) to pit my understanding Vs yours (which I assume is the common understanding), and we can raise, lets say, 10 points/questions each for the other to respond to, then at the end we can summarise our debate. It's possible readers may find this helpful.
As a side note, I do find your posts verbose, so it would be nice to have concise points/questions in such a debate.peace Mazhar,
If that is your interpretation of what I wrote, each to their own. Clearly in my short summary, I not only mention they understood the correct meaning/significance of the dream but Abraham also followed through in action, thus it is not all about having the correct interpretation.
Again, I ask, if you have some clear/strong/evidenced objection to anything in the article please bring forth your strongest example so I/we can weigh it up. -
peace jkhan,
If you prefer, we can have a separate thread (linked to from this thread) to pit my understanding Vs yours (which I assume is the common understanding), and we can raise, lets say, 10 points/questions each for the other to respond to, then at the end we can summarise our debate. It's possible readers may find this helpful.
As a side note, I do find your posts verbose, so it would be nice to have concise points/questions in such a debate.peace Mazhar,
If that is your interpretation of what I wrote, each to their own. Clearly in my short summary, I not only mention they understood the correct meaning/significance of the dream but Abraham also followed through in action, thus it is not all about having the correct interpretation.
Again, I ask, if you have some clear/strong/evidenced objection to anything in the article please bring forth your strongest example so I/we can weigh it up.- What they had thought the correct meaning of the dream?
- What Abraham followed in action?
What was the sequence of these two? Which one was the first>
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At least observe some of the stories presented in the same chapter with such identical phrases.. “” Thus (We) reward the Good-doers “” ~~~~~ “ We left for him among later generations”” ~~~~~
These are regular typical phrases used in this chapter not only for Ibrahim’s story… and in my understanding I see the stories are Ddelivering the messengers + the people from some Great Disasters (either from God’s side or peoples’ or even self – all three involved)… after saving from such disaster God uses the above phrases here and there…very fair comments above are… Aren’t they?
Even .. in the same stories Ibrahim has got two stories apart from the topic.. that is Ibrahim being put in fire and he was delivered / saved from that great disaster… Your story doesn’t tally with the flow of Quranic intent.. Is it?
Salam Jkhan,
Good remark.
You will find more informations here https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610603.30 (First and last post)
Peace -
Salam Jkhan,
Good remark.
You will find more informations here https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610603.30 (First and last post)
PeaceSalam Brother Iyyaka....
I was out of action for last 6 to 7 months with freeminds... so i missed many... I read only very significant topics.. this is important... i will go through.. thank you for sharing ...
Peace Brother Waqas…
You emphasized that word Manam astonished you and it is literal not mandatory interpretation…. While Al Ru’ya need further elaboration… Only two places real Manam (i.e. dream) occurs.. one is pertinent to caption and only other occasion is the dream of Prophet Mohamed 843.. I am afraid you got it erroneous…My simple question is; any of the Quran explained Manam or Ru’ya Literal? All the Ru’ya needed interpretation (that we comply) and no such Ru’ya was a command even the dream of the King of Yousuf saw … Was it a command?.. it was a good sign… No Ru’ya was Literal (simply explaining no one took the dream as in it’s own nature, like Ibrahim took) Got it??..
Now lets turn to Manam… out of two one is Mohamed’s dream… which God says … Allah showed it to Mohamed (all quranic dreams Allah showed… that’s why they were interpreted and it happened)… So these dreams in fact from God.. Question is, was it a command? … Was it LITERAL ? YES or NO… No.. the dream was not a command neither Literal…coz what Mohamed was shown is something and what in the end happened is different … so it can’t be literal… Mohamed didn’t perceive the dream as literal and didn’t take any action to increase the numbers according to dream..…Why exception to Ibrahim’s dream? Why his dream literal ? since he is the only person who took either manam or Ru’ya as literal….that’s his disastrous decision which in the end Favored and delivered since he was a muhsinun (good doer) and not always God would do such to every good doer…Remember non of the human being is commanded in quran to take any of our dream as literal… we will have no clue what the dreams are all about since we don’t have true interpreters of them… but we may at one point of time may come to know what was the meaning of such and such with the time if it happens..
No COMMANDMENT through dreams be it Manam or Ru’ya… God’s system will not change that’s common to any messenger….
1777 established way (Sunnah) for those We had sent before you of Our Messengers; and you will not find in Our way any alteration.
