An ardent cry of help! Someone, please?
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The bad thing nowadays is, the human mind and what it all can do, is worshipped like an idol (shirk). No one can weigh spiritual matters with it. Constantly trying to do something which is not possible surely makes one feel very empty.
And SOLIPSISM is the pure philosophy of the devil! Stay away from it to get cured from your depression.
Your HEART is ok, you want the truth. This is the important thing.
Good advice above from Cerberus to beware of virtual realities of different kind. I am not a born muslim, so I may not have such a good unterstanding, how you feel. -
@ brother jaffar
as far i understand she/he is on about a FEELING,
feeling that he/she is not sure either God is real or fake or only in human mind this approach we called agnostic approach.
sometimes a person ask again and again and again, he/she never get listen he feels every time failure eventually he/she released himself/herself from asking force thinks that the force never existed at first place these type of feelings..
Perhaps this is due to expectation?
The answer did came out but it's not in accordance to his/her expectation?
Thus he / she complaint that he / she never received any answer?when a person never experience God in his whole life let say untill 40 hes been ignored by God what he do ?
at this point he lose hope either he will think there is no God or God dnt wana listen him both are not good feelings and these feelings will only lead to more confusion ...No one is ignored by God..
Perhaps this is again due to 'expectation'?"You can't always get what you want, but you might find that you get what you need."
-- Mick Jagger"One who is contented is rich"
-- Lao TseHow do you guys know you’re holding on to the truth? What makes your faith any different from others’?
If what you're looking for is "the one and true religion" then the answer is there is no such thing as "the one and true religion".
The key for this is a realization that we're not holding on to the truth, it will allow our mind to be open minded and seek out the truth.
A realization that my 'faith' is no different than others, it contain mistakes as others, allow us to NOT feel special or superior compared to others. Such attitude will allows us to learn...It also cast away the pride which is within you and allow you to be humble which is the right pose to learn.
Learning is from mistakes, learning is from mistakes.
The ability for self-criticism shall discover our mistakes or the mistakes within faith itself which we have identified with ourselves thus we call it "our faith".That's why those who are proud and arrogant will never learn or grow, because he / she lacks the capability of realizing his / her own mistakes and/or learn from others.
But arrogant person still serves it purpose, they act as an example for the humble to learn from...
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No one is ignored by God..
Perhaps this is again due to 'expectation'?"You can't always get what you want, but you might find that you get what you need."
-- Mick Jaggeri know its bit difficult to understand what i am trying to say because everyone have different situations in life i will try telling you a situation so that it will be easy to answer that situation someone is facing..
example a person want to do work for his survival (food,cloths,rent) etc but due to restriction from authorities he/she is unable to do work and in this situation what all hes asking is "permission of work".
some of the examples are of those who are failed asylum seekers not allowed to do work and cant go back to their own countries and when their case is failed they are not entitled to any benefits from government and eventually they have option left to earn illegally where people treat them like modern slavery..
most of the cases its difficult for them to find a work, even if they find it somehow it wont long last that how they manage to live from the savings , whenever they apply for work it get refused which is covering your one point that sometimes we dont like the "answers".
what all he/she is asking is a permission of doing work not any wish or some expectations just a basic right ...
creator need to know his/her situation as he/she is asking from last many many years now how long creator want to delay his/her prayers for seeking a work ?
hes/she is willing to do work but he/she cant do it ? its like a kid dependent on parents want to eat food but parents refusing him and he eventually go outside on streets looking his food on chance basis/luck
at this point he/she will think either GOD is real or not the approach of agnostic feelings.
on top of that his golden young years are getting waste and what he/she need for life is getting more late like basic needs of making a family, a home , due to this he/she feel depression/tenshion @ extreme
NOTE other members can also input their insight i know lot of these type of cases not only failed asylum seekers but also people who are helpless in finding their way or they are blocked by something in life..
only if GOD wills can help them in those matters because its something like we say luck/chance/destiny etc
its kinda dangerous situation specially when he/she felt ignored by God on continuous basis one can think if God exist then he dnt wana help and if he dnt exist then its also not a good sign. due to which most of the times depression lead a person go astray ending up in using of drugs or mental illness or sometimes suicidal ..
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its kinda dangerous situation specially when he/she felt ignored by God on continuous basis one can think if God exist then he dnt wana help and if he dnt exist then its also not a good sign. due to which most of the times depression lead a person go astray ending up in using of drugs or mental illness or sometimes suicidal ..
Ah then this is related to depression...
Everyone went through some kind of depression during their short life on this earth.
It's normal and it's humane...But it has nothing to do with whether God exist or not discussion..
But let's dig up more on this depression...
What caused depression?
Depression caused by continuing difficulties – from long-term unemployment, living in an abusive or uncaring relationship, long-term isolation or loneliness, prolonged work stress etc..
We can summarize that depression is caused by continuing mismatched between expectation / desire and reality.Who experienced depression?
Nearly everyone at least on during some of their lifetime. Poor to Rich, Peasants to King..
A politician might suffer depression because he lost election 8 times, thus a mismatch definitely happened between his expectation / desire and reality.
When he finally won an election (he got what he desired for) he will face with gigantic problems and failures thus another mismatched happened between his expectation / desire and reality which might caused another depression.With the above description, perhaps you can now have a good idea on how to deal with depression? or should I say a "mismatch between expectation / desire and reality".
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Peace All.
Some thoughts about "suffering" in this world.It’s typical to think of the problem of evil like this we picture ourselves in this world of suffering; then we picture ourselves in a world with far less suffering. And then we wonder, “Shouldn’t God have created us in the other world – the world with far less suffering?”
That’s a reasonable thought. But it’s a thought that relies on a philosophical mistake. It relies on the assumption that it would still be you and me(as humans ) who would exist in that other world. And that is highly controversial.
First let s quote Isiah
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.”
“As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.” (Isaiah 558-9)We often wish we could take some piece of suffering out of our world while keeping everything else the same. But it doesn’t work that way. Changing anything changes everything, and everyone.
why then should we be surprised when some of God’s reasons are beyond what we can fully grasp?
Why didn’t God create a different world? Well, it depends on what God was after. It depends on what God values. And what if one of the things He values, values greatly, is you, and the people you love, and each person who will ever live?
Without the possibility of significant suffering, practically every great true story in history would be false.
No one would ever have made a significant sacrifice for anyone else. No great moments of forgiveness and reconciliation. No opportunities to stand for justice against injustice. No compassion (because nothing to be compassionate about), no courage (because no dangerous situations requiring courage), no heroes, no such thing as laying down one’s life for another.
Is it so obvious that God would create that world rather than our own? Why/
Criticism without alternative is empty. It’s easy to get mad at the world God has made. It’s much harder to say the world God should have made instead.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Even if the answer did come, why haven’t I been able to see it as an answer? What makes something an answer? How are you able to differentiate?
Indeed. Having no answer leads to a depressive state ... and I am right there. I am truly blessed in all other ways finances, family, support, anything you name I am more or less blessed. However, what I don’t have is what people call belief/faith. And it has taken away peace in all aspects of life. I have barely any will to move forward in life. I really don’t know what I should be doing to regain faith. God knows I am hanging on to a straw now.
@goodlogic
Thank you for your insightful words. They give me hope, but to really internalize all this I perhaps neef to arrive at this answer on my own. I am somewhat near it, though. But ofc my journey gets stalled by lack of faith and having no answers.
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Even if the answer did come, why haven’t I been able to see it as an answer? What makes something an answer? How are you able to differentiate?
Because it's not in accordance to your wish and expectation perhaps??
A small example from my past experience..
I was an ardent sunnis fanatics, all of my mindsets and views were typical sunnis.
Given in Sunnism in order to be Muslims the #1 requirement is the shahada and given I was told that Jesus was a Muslim too.
I then try to find the shahada in the Gospels.. that was my question where is the shahada in the Gospel to prove Jesus was a Muslim too. And my expectation is I will find Shahada in the Gospels.The answer I found NO SHAHADA in the Gospels..
I don't like the answer, discussion among sunnis lead to that the Gospels was faked, there used to be a Shahada in the Gospel but the Christians Kuffars erased it. They even show me the "Gospel With Shahada" (The so called Gospel of Barnabas). I was comforted with my 'faith'... at least for the time being.
Upon further contemplation, I concluded that this Gospel Of Barnabas seems to be suspicious as it also told that Adam recited the shahada. One thing lead to many other things .. I then realized that it was NOT the Gospels which are faked but it was my own belief that was ridiculous and fake, the shahada itself is fake. Why would I tried to find the shahada in the Gospel when Jesus existed before Muhammad? And why would Muhammad himself recited the shahada in the first place?
Given the #1 importance of Shahada in Islam, then my questioning lead to what is Islam when shahada itself is fake?
Then I found the answer of what is actually islam from unexpected sources, not in the Quran or Hadith or Saying of Imams but in the Gospels.There are many other examples, the above is just a small example.. but the pattern is consistent once you're; open minded and open to be fully honest including accepting the fact that you and your own faith contain flaws and mistakes, realizing the truth will be an easy task.
Indeed. Having no answer leads to a depressive state ... and I am right there. I am truly blessed in all other ways finances, family, support, anything you name I am more or less blessed. However, what I don’t have is what people call belief/faith. And it has taken away peace in all aspects of life. I have barely any will to move forward in life. I really don’t know what I should be doing to regain faith. God knows I am hanging on to a straw now.
Finances, family, support you are fully blessed...
Haven't you realized this? That you got everything that you need?Thank you for your insightful words. They give me hope, but to really internalize all this I perhaps neef to arrive at this answer on my own. I am somewhat near it, though. But ofc my journey gets stalled by lack of faith and having no answers.
Humble attitude and open minded is the key..
Ask God show me my mistakes and flaws.. -
Indeed. Having no answer leads to a depressive state ... and I am right there. I am truly blessed in all other ways finances, family, support, anything you name I am more or less blessed. However, what I don’t have is what people call belief/faith. And it has taken away peace in all aspects of life. I have barely any will to move forward in life. I really don’t know what I should be doing to regain faith. God knows I am hanging on to a straw now.
RED you are very lucky person i hope you stay blessed because in 95% cases depression related with these factors.
BLUE i will try sharing with you how to understand the current situation.
believe/faith vs truth/proven fact are really difficult to grasp.
we believe in something when we dnt want to discover something. its also distraction as we are blocking our reason of critical thinking..when we admit we dnt know about something what we inherited in our faith then we are going on a track of discovering something.
when we reached at reality it become a belief for us by our own struggle in seeking something.. thats how we understand belief vs truth
when it comes to God (belief/faith) things get tricky.
because (A) one person faith is different then (B) another person faith.and both of them (A&B) have information from sources what observed by human them-selves.
( both dnt know but they have faith)but we know the reality, (belief/faith) never worked same for everyone.
GREEN my ADVISE for you if you already blessed with everything around you just take this thing lightly, you should not thinking negative of not moving forward in your life based on the facts what we observed regarding faith.
live your life full.
attitude of admitting "we know nothing" is better than blind faith. be at peace. there is not any harm to go with side of your conscience. -
Salam,
I hope you’re in a better state.
Something I wanted to add is we have the capacity to improve our minds and grow... For example, your mind as a teenager isn’t the same as your adult mind. Through different experiences and knowledge our mind grows. Besides, if you don't trust your mind, who's mind will you be willing to give that authority to?
Not everyone’s faith is secure, rational or authentic.
What causes certainty? Before, you didn’t question and ponder but now that you have, that certainty has changed. Would you have believed your knowledge today if you told your previous sunni believing self?
I can relate to the discomfort of uncertainty but it’s all part of personal growth. One answer can lead to more questions and sometimes answers will forever be unknown. I’ve accepted that sometimes I will not know but I’ve always had faith/belief in God.
Peace, blessings and happiness upon you too
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Salam,
I hope you’re in a better state.
Something I wanted to add is we have the capacity to improve our minds and grow... For example, your mind as a teenager isn’t the same as your adult mind. Through different experiences and knowledge our mind grows. Besides, if you don't trust your mind, who's mind will you be willing to give that authority to?
Not everyone’s faith is secure, rational or authentic.
What causes certainty? Before, you didn’t question and ponder but now that you have, that certainty has changed. Would you have believed your knowledge today if you told your previous sunni believing self?
I can relate to the discomfort of uncertainty but it’s all part of personal growth. One answer can lead to more questions and sometimes answers will forever be unknown. I’ve accepted that sometimes I will not know but I’ve always had faith/belief in God.
Peace, blessings and happiness upon you too
Thank you, Sarah, for responding. I am a tad better than before. What a coincidence that you used the word "uncertainty" --- I have learned that I am going through OCD; but this OCD is religious and mental in nature. It latches onto doubt and you crave certainty for all answers. In my case it is about gaining certainty in faith, God, the world he has created, the way he would judge, the pain he has created, why he has created, etc. And, tbh, there are no answers for any of this. Even the Quran is not this detailed to have comprehensive answers. In fact, my obsessions reach out to Quran, its historicity, its authenticity, etc etc. It's a loop.
At this point, I have withdrawn myself from Quran and answering such questions. The only "cure" of OCD is accepting the uncertainty. I am working towards it. Once I do come back to faith, I know it will be about accepting the uncertainty. There is no absolute proof and reason for God, heaven, hell, his judgement, his plan for the world, the pain that exists. And there never will be. You can choose the best answers and keep on living. And perhaps risk your soul alongside ... everyone risks it eventually, muslim or not. And if God is just He would just have to accept people in good faith for their hard work, muslim or not.
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I wish peace, blessings, and happiness upon you all.
Before I begin, I'd like to point out that I am not a shitty troll. My post is in earnest and I'd like to hear soothing, supporting words, anecdotes ... just about anything comforting ... from any and every one. Thanks.
Here it goes
I am in a mess. I have been in a mess for almost a decade now. And by this mess I imply spiritual mess. Idk where I stand with God. As much as I want to believe in a benevolent creator, I get pushed away. And idk why this keeps happening to me. My story goes something like this
I was born into a Muslim, Sunni family. My faith was strong and my belief in Quran, God, Muhammad was all great ... why wouldn't it be? I believed everything that my family portrayed as true ... I honestly didn't have the time or knowledge to question anything. However, by whatever stroke of luck, at age 19, I became genuinely interested in seeking and nourishing my relationship with Allah. I was sincere at that, but like all stories go, I was horrified by hadith literature and hadith influenced Quran. This was the first time I was carefully reading the scripture, and I was shaken to the core. I had issues with everything. My faith was so much more tested with the stuff I was studying in my undergrad. I was more or less agnostic because of this ... not because I was wanted to be, but because I couldn't fathom God, evil, and muslim scriptures with their odd stories. My existential anxiety turned into major depression ... I could not see the world without God, and yet the world more or less believed in no god at all.
By another stroke of luck I happened upon a Quran Alone group on facebook - I was relieved. Phew. I had been saved. Perhaps there was a way out. My anxiety subsided. And yet my faith was not "full" as it was when I was 18 all those years ago. I still had some issues with some verses --- I did not understand the Quran fully, nor did I fake to be a scholar --- but I always gave it my best. I read and re-read. I spent time on Arabic. I did what I could. And I stayed away from all "sins".
Push couple of more years and my anxiety peaked again, as I thought more and more about the world and its people. I just couldn't understand how each one of us could reach the idea of one god when most of us are never exposed to it. Progress of science and its commitment to erasing God has been no help. It just pushes people further off when they're already on thin ice. And yet I hung on to my faith. A faith that was in my heart but not in my questioning mind. I hoped that there was a God who witnessed my struggle and would eventually answer me. I remained committed to good and reading Quran.
But now it's been a year of so much pain and anxiety I have had to see a therapist to be re-assured that everything will be alright. I am on such thin ice that I can barely stand - I am afraid my faith will shatter and so will I. I don't know how to find God ... and which God do I find?
Everyone claims to have found God. You ask muslims, christians, jewish folks, hindus, sikhs, animists, gnostics, whichever denomination you pick claims to have found God and to have guidance. This only goes on to confirm the evolutionary theory of religion - we all have a spot(s) in our brain that makes us feel spiritual and then we attach it to whatever cultural/religious beliefs we have. This really depresses me --- how am I to ever know that I have the true God in mind and heart, when all I am doing is depending on very subjective experiences and modes of knowledge?
The concept of shirk depresses me even more. Most non-muslim folks seek God in earnest; they feel it within themselves; next thing they do is associate with God whatever cultural notions of God they have. Their notion of God is as much as their religion offers them. Nothing more, nothing less. A Christian --- even a very rational one who believes in truths of science --- after seeking and feeling God ends up believing in Jesus' help. Are they to be blamed? That's the language/mode of knowledge they have to reach God.
I wish I could understand the world and God better. My questions are too many and answers quite nil. I have no answer for anything. My psychologist tells me my need for God/faith is a human need that the brain/years of evolution and cultural thought puts on me. I am in agreement with this; and yet I know I have a mind that questions regardless of this need the nature and existence of God. My heart yearns to believe in a creative force despite evil and suffering that pervades the world. I am sure I have justifications for all this. And yet my mind is troubled about "which God". And even if the god I believe in is solely a palliative figment of my thoughts.
I am so confused and upset ---- each believing individual is at peace with God, no matter which religion they belong to. Either God exists in the brain or God sees no religion and offers comfort to all regardless of denominations and rituals. How do I reach out to God? How do I hear back from the creative force? How will I ever know that it's the authentic voice? I could have sworn as a Sunni my comfort and faith was authentic ...
Guys, this post is in earnest. I am a parent and spouse, and my depression and lack of faith has pushed me away into a corner. I need comforting words. How do I come back to God? Sometimes I feel God has locked my heart for doubting and questioning so much. But I have only doubted because I have rarely ever received proper answers. I envy people who have rock solid faith in this day and age. I am just so lost. I do not even know where I went wrong ... perhaps in questioning everything? But I only did so to have better faith and understanding ... But alas! All's lost. Unlike others, I did not gain insight into God or life; instead, I lost whatever morsel of hope I had.
I hope people who have gone through something similar will have words to share. How do you guys get back on track? How do you get back to God? How do learn to trust your heart and ignore the musings of the brain? Just how do you guys have faith and I do not?
Thanking you all in earnest,
A sleepless agnostic believer on thin iceSometimes i feel the same pain. I think i am also lost.. One book but so many contradicting and different interpretations.
I was following a Quran alone group on twitter when i asked them some question regarding their belief in miracles,they shut me down. Why this arrogance.
Muslims all around the world are going through some sort of trauma..from syria to china,kashmir to palestine... Why we r not able to overcome our ego OR muslim ummah is just a fairy tale?
I m really crying.
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No problem Rahma,
You had strong faith/belief and then you shook it up with new ideas, knowledge and even doubt... it sounds perfectly normal to crave the answers you’ve been conditioned to believe..
You know there is no answer for your questions but you still crave them? Maybe ask yourself Why? And what validation do they give.
I think it’s good that you researched into authenticity, history etc it just shows how much more there is to knowledge, belief and truth than we think.
Proof and reason will have its subjectivity. I could argue there is no absolute disproof for God, heaven, hell etc.
You’re building your soul, not risking your soul. Try not to be too harsh on yourself, try to trust yourself and be patient inshallah things will be fine.
Asifzaheer,
People like to clique with each other and tend to support ideologies whether they agree or disagree for their own group purpose regardless of what name or label they put upon themselves... so i wouldn’t take what people say too personally.
Muslims aren’t the only people going through trauma.
I think most people are in their own fairy tale where they envision an idealistic dream of what a muslim ummah is.
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Sometimes i feel the same pain. I think i am also lost.. One book but so many contradicting and different interpretations.
I was following a Quran alone group on twitter when i asked them some question regarding their belief in miracles,they shut me down. Why this arrogance.
Muslims all around the world are going through some sort of trauma..from syria to china,kashmir to palestine... Why we r not able to overcome our ego OR muslim ummah is just a fairy tale?
I m really crying.
Peace...
Don't cry AZ... Didn't God promise that there some people from later generation in Janna... So, definitely there are believers even now... So be patient... We can't take action to everything in this world...
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Sometimes i feel the same pain. I think i am also lost.. One book but so many contradicting and different interpretations.
I was following a Quran alone group on twitter when i asked them some question regarding their belief in miracles,they shut me down. Why this arrogance.
Muslims all around the world are going through some sort of trauma..from syria to china,kashmir to palestine... Why we r not able to overcome our ego OR muslim ummah is just a fairy tale?
I m really crying.
Yes in a way muslim ummah is a fairy tale it cannot be greater than you, your family, your language, your place, your country, its true for all religions.
The goodness in this world should be respected, and even Quran and Islam advocates the same, race towards it whereever it is, but not be proud of yourselves, thank God and that i think is the first step of being a muslim.
When I see a person in other faith, i see him as just following a different sign of God, sacred for him and he has every right to follow it, until his faith intrudes my personal freedom and well being, but sometimes we also need to compromise.
Example, See some sects here burn their dead instead of burying, we may think its wrong, but it can be right too, think those living in mountainous rocky terrains, where digging deep grave is difficult or those living in tropics where diseases spread easily, or think about those who travel long in the sea in ships? so to each their own good way/deen and accepting that is also part of being a muslim. So we should first get out of this bookish mindset and start asking questions ourselves we will get answers. -
Thanx everybody for u support. I think this forum is different ,close to emotions.. love the people here,divided in opinions still respect n love each other.
Love n wasalaam.
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Peace
RAHMA "Guys, this post is in earnest. I am a parent and spouse, and my depression and lack of faith has pushed me away into a corner. I need comforting words. How do I come back to God? Sometimes I feel God has locked my heart for doubting and questioning so much. But I have only doubted because I have rarely ever received proper answers. I envy people who have rock solid faith in this day and age. I am just so lost. I do not even know where I went wrong ... perhaps in questioning everything? But I only did so to have better faith and understanding ... But alas! All's lost. Unlike others, I did not gain insight into God or life; instead, I lost whatever morsel of hope I had."
---God never locks your heart for questioning.
---you do not get proper answers because you are seeking the blind for guidance.
---there is very few people in the truth this day and age, what you see is only people comfortable with the lie they are living.
---you are not lost you are confused.
---you never went wrong, on the contrary, God made you to the right.
---questioning everything is a right path.
---you did it because God willed it upon you, you just have to ask him for strength to resist the load that He is putting over your shoulders. You got to where you are now because you wanted the truth, and the truth is a heavy load to most men. Only the Most Merciful can give you strength to resist it.Do not stop nourishing yourself with the word of God, and do not listen to the ignorant. only God can clarify the turbulent waters of your mind.
your confusion comes from the fact that what the Lord is making you see collides violently with the world in which you grew, live in.Find some comfort in the story of P. Abraham, who suffered the same confusion searching for truth.
it is normal to think that we have gone crazy, because we cannot be the only ones seen what we see. difficult to accept that we can be the only ones right and everybody around us wrong, because of the fear of going wrong. But, God knows best upon whom He bestows His Mercy. it is not those seeking truth that ere in madness, it is the world that is in madness.
may God increase our knowledge and give us wisdom.