Arabic language and the great reading

truth

Dear Ayman,

A most excellent endeavour with some very important results. One only hopes that such knowledge becomes more widely known. Have you sent copies of this article (and previous) to academics in Islamic history at universities etc. Your ideas are worthy of broader attention.

May I just say that in regards to "Dhu al shaaara" that it may not be the Sun but rather 'Sirius' the 'dog-star' that Egyptians and other ancient cultures had regarded as an object of religious worship.

The etymology of the word even is more fitting than 'shams'.

5349 He is the Lord of Sirius.

Waannahu huwa rabbu alshshiAAra

The initials idea has been around already. The Ahmaddiya translators have considered the initials to have known meanings. It is not unreasonable to think that they represent words and look forward to your assault on the other 18 combinations before I can make a full assessment.

Anyhow, great work. God bless.

Peace.

unknownuser

Salaam brother Ayman,

I enjoyed this article, and has helped me gain more knowledge the god willing.

A couple of questions and a suggestion

Did you use the hijri to gregorian conversion to determine there was 20 yrs difference between the birth of the prophet and the written inscriptions? Or did you use another method?

Secondly, the letters on the inscription, what alphabet are they? How do they codify this into the Arabic letters we know? How did you go about verifying the accuracy of this translation?

My suggestion is for comments such as these

the Nabataeans represented their deities with geometric forms such as square stone blocks, sacred meteorites, or square shapes carved into a stone wall and sometimes enhanced with schematic eyes and nose.

This may be obvious to yourself but for me who has no knowledge of archeology would you be able to cite references to help us verify this information? Actually, it might be an idea that each logical assertion is maybe indexed and referenced. This should help readers a little more, as often for the more knowledgable things may seem obvious but for those with less knowledge it can be daunting.

Mashallah good work!

naxus

peace to every one here dear bro ayman a very thougtfull n interesting article specially the theory about the Quranic initial is great and i think just by this u will break many man made idols i will try to research u,r article though mainly about Abraha, Kabaa n Makka may Allah increase our knowledge peace

hlatif

Salam Ayman, all,

This is very interesting writing. One question How do you decipher the letters that change with the dots? Example Ha vs KHA s Jeem
Ta vs THA
Sad vs DAD
Seen vs Sheen
Ya vs Ta vs Ba vs Noon in
Ain vs GHayn

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, though.

Hussein

beatnik

Very interesting read ayman, thanks for that.

Wakas

peace be upon you brother Ayman,

Thanks for the read.
I would like to add the following information, taken from Lane's Lexicon

LANE'S LEXICON on kaf-ayn-ba (root of kabba)

(If one wishes to study the full Lane's Lexicon entry for Kaf-Ayn-Ba, please see the following pages 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.)

AND

LANE'S LEXICON on the idol Al-Lat = 1, 2, 3.

Wakas

ayman

Peace brothers truth, beatnik, nexus, Hussein, Ash Shuura, Wakas, all

Thank you all for your kind comments and encouragement.

A most excellent endeavour with some very important results. One only hopes that such knowledge becomes more widely known. Have you sent copies of this article (and previous) to academics in Islamic history at universities etc. Your ideas are worthy of broader attention.

I think that serious orientalists, archeologists, and linguists would be interested in such ideas. However, it is not going to be easy because without the hearsay reports, the history of pre-quranic Arabic seems very dull and not interesting. Hence, most orientalists have made a career out of analyzing highly entertaining hearsay.

May I just say that in regards to "Dhu al shaaara" that it may not be the Sun but rather 'Sirius' the 'dog-star' that Egyptians and other ancient cultures had regarded as an object of religious worship.

The etymology of the word even is more fitting than 'shams'.

5349 He is the Lord of Sirius.

Waannahu huwa rabbu alshshiAAra

As another heavenly body, Sirius is definitely a possibility. However, the celebration of the birth of Dhu Al-Shaara happened on the winter solstice (when the sun is "reborn" and the days gradually start to get longer) and not on the day of the rising of Sirius (I think in July). This points more to the sun. I am not sure how they got the meaning of "shaara" to mean Sirius in the above translation.

The initials idea has been around already. The Ahmaddiya translators have considered the initials to have known meanings. It is not unreasonable to think that they represent words and look forward to your assault on the other 18 combinations before I can make a full assessment.

I think the other combinations need more collaboration, which takes me to your first point. I started to look at pre-quranic inscriptions to see if any of those words appear. This would be better if we got some archeologists and linguists interested in helping.

Did you use the hijri to gregorian conversion to determine there was 20 yrs difference between the birth of the prophet and the written inscriptions? Or did you use another method?

The dates are discussed in Lawrence Conrad, "Abraha and Muhammad Some Observations Apropos of Chronology and Literary Topoi in the Early Arabic Historical Tradition," BSOAS 50 no.2 (1987) and A. F. L. Beeston, ABRAHA in Encyclopedia of Islam (1960). See also A.F.L. Beeston, Epigraphic South Arabian Calendars and Dating. London Luzac (1956) and Beeston A.F.L. Old South Arabian era datings. Proceedings of the Seminar for Arabian Studies, Vol 11, (1981).

The dating of the inscription correlates well with other inscriptions such as one on the Maarib dam which records the quelling of an insurrection backed by a son of the deposed ruler Esimiphaeus in the year 657 of the Sabaean era, which is about 547AD.

Secondly, the letters on the inscription, what alphabet are they? How do they codify this into the Arabic letters we know? How did you go about verifying the accuracy of this translation?

They are in a script called Musnad script.

http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/figs-stones/x-large/color_xl_jpeg/fig02.jpg

Arabic inscriptions in Musnad script until the early seventh century AD when it went out in favor of the now familiar Kufic script.

My suggestion is for comments such as these

the Nabataeans represented their deities with geometric forms such as square stone blocks, sacred meteorites, or square shapes carved into a stone wall and sometimes enhanced with schematic eyes and nose.

This may be obvious to yourself but for me who has no knowledge of archeology would you be able to cite references to help us verify this information? Actually, it might be an idea that each logical assertion is maybe indexed and referenced. This should help readers a little more, as often for the more knowledgable things may seem obvious but for those with less knowledge it can be daunting.

You are absolutely right. I would say that in this case what is better are pictures which are worth a thousand words. I sent the article in HTML format to brother Layth to publish with pictures showing such information, so people can see for themselves what I am talking about.

This is very interesting writing. One question How do you decipher the letters that change with the dots? Example Ha vs KHA s Jeem
Ta vs THA
Sad vs DAD
Seen vs Sheen
Ya vs Ta vs Ba vs Noon in
Ain vs GHayn

It is a myth that early copies of the great reading didn't have any dotting. While it is true that some of the early copies of the great reading were not fully dotted, there are many early copies that are fully dotted. Here is a very early example that even predates the Tashkent copy

http//faculty.washington.edu/wheelerb/quran/maili.html

Moreover, the great reading refers to itself as "kitab marqum". According to Classical Arabic dictionaries, marqum means dotted.

The dotting started very early and Arabs were dotting even mundane documents such as business letters. For example, see the following manuscript

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/PERF558.html

It is analyzed by Alan Jones, "The Dotting Of A Script And The Dating Of An Era The Strange Neglect Of PERF 558", in Islamic Culture, 1998, Volume LXXII, No. 4, pp. 95-103.

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/jones.html

Thanks for the read.
I would like to add the following information, taken from Lane's Lexicon

LANE'S LEXICON on kaf-ayn-ba (root of kabba)

(If one wishes to study the full Lane's Lexicon entry for Kaf-Ayn-Ba, please see the following pages 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.)

AND

LANE'S LEXICON on the idol Al-Lat = 1, 2, 3.

Lexicons are best at seeing how meanings connect and figuring out the etymology of words. The purpose of dictionaries is not to recount history. Keeping the limitations of dictionaries in mind, one can use them and safely say that Lane has no business giving historical analysis of what the idol Al-Lat is. The archeological evidence gives a totally different picture

Given the evidence from "pre-quranic" times, I don't think that the meanings given by Lane of "A girl's swelling breasts", "a girl's virginity" or a "cube shrine" make any sense. For example, we know that in pre-quranic times the name Ka3b was a very popular name for Arab male Jews. There is no way that so many parents would name their newborn son something that has a connotation with women's breasts or virginity. Also, there is no way that Jews would have named their sons after something that they consider a pagan shrine.

As far as "k3b"/"k3b(t)" goes, Lane gives a few reasonable meanings such as "swift", "heel", and glory.

Although it may not seem so at first, but those meanings are etymologically related. "Heel" is the "base" of the foot and we walk swiftly on our heels so one can see how "swift" could have originated from "heel/base". Furthermore, someone who is swift and arrives first gets the glory (or is at the forefront) so one can see how the meaning of "glory/forefront" came about.

Now given the fact that Lane is based on works such as Lisan Al-3arab, which date to over 600 years after the revelation of the great reading, one can see that "base" is the most likely primary meaning that the other meanings branched from over several hundred years.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

savage_carrot

Peace brother Ayman,

Thank you for posting your article, it is a very interesting and thought provoking read...

The only things that appeared to me a bit out of place was the "hey man", and the pollination bit in 421-3. They don't gel imo of the 'feel', for lack of better words, in the reading...it is a personal thing, so i personally would hold my judgement on those words.

Located in the Tareq Rajab Museum in Kuwait.

Surprisingly, i just visited this museum today and looked at the script in the link...it is a very good museum with a lot of examples of scripts, I would recommend it to everyone.

Best Regards,
Nadia

edited to add

A question, are there early manuscripts in arabic and of the quran with no dots? In which case, is it fair to say the dots were added later in arabic texts as opposed to earlier texts that did not have dots?

I came across this site

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Papyri/jones.html

The year 22 is the first Islamic year for which any dated documents written in Arabic survive, and there are only two of those P Berol 15002, which is unfortunately fragmentary, and PERF 558, the first complete Arabic document of the Muslim era.

Despite its age PERF 558 is relatively easy to read. There are two reasons for this it is written in a clear cursive hand; and it contains a fair sprinkling of dots.*** As will be seen, there are dotted forms of six letters ; there are some long vowels ; and there are some examples of alif maqsurah.

truth

Peace all,

I looked at Wakas' post in relation to K3b and I must say that the meanings of swelling, ankle etc suggested to me the word PROMINENCE to be the correct translation.

prominence

n 1 the state of being prominent widely known or eminent
2 relative importance
3 something that bulges out or is protuberant or projects from a form

The ankle for example is a prominence, and many bones have anatomical names which includes 'prominence' and the word has also come to mean widely known.

This also fits with the usage as a Jewish name, a name that would confer a sense of importance which is certainly how traditional names are used commonly.

The translation would thus be

The God has made prominent the system of restrictions for the refuge of people as well as the month of restriction and the gift (of guidance) and the restraint so that you know that The God knows what is in the heavens and the earth and that The God is knowledgeable with everything.

The grammar could be improved but that would be my take on it.

Regards.

Layth

Peace Ayman,

Interesting article, but I find the conclusions reached were based on incorrect reasoning.

You 'assumed' that because they were speaking of the people of the book teaching him, and that since the people of the book are refered to as having a different language, that the Arabic language has two forms (religious & common).

This is not a correct understanding of the verse as it only means what it says...That the people who are accused of teaching him the Quran were not of an Arabic toungue.

Arabic has both common and religous aspects to it...The only issue is that their religious aspects were all idolatrous refering to Al-Llat and Uzza and Manat as examples in the Quran.

Hence, since Mohammed was not preaching a new form of idolatry (which they would have welcomed and accepted) they said he was being taught by the 'foreigners' who were knowon to be preaching about the One God.

Finally, your conclusion to the 'initials' being words is unsubstantiated since the example of H.M., ASQ is deliberetly seperated to indicate two sets rather than the same set of initials.

savage_carrot

Peace brother Ayman,

Layth's post raises an interesting point though, which is that if the language of the religious elite was nabatean (aramaic?) and that of the common people was arabic, why would the disbelievers/religious clergy/pagans etc accuse him of being taught by a nabatean (aramaic?) speaking religious cleric/elite? especially since the quran was in arabic and they knew it...

Nadia

truth

Peace,

I don't think that it's necessarily obvious which language is being referred to in 16103 apart from Arabic.

There are several candidate languages; Aramaic/Greek (Christians), Nabatean, Hebrew amongst others (? Sabians etc also). I would imagine that the Nabatean elite would have been preaching idolatry so I don't think 16103 refers to them as the teachers.

I think the verse refers to either the Jews, Christians, or Sabians as the possible foreign teachers. 16103 is most likely indicating that the messenger was not bilingual, in that he would not have understood the language of the alleged teacher - and that the revelations were clear and in the native Arabic language of the messenger who was amongst them 622.

Regards.

savage_carrot

Peace,

Yes i wanted to add that

I would imagine that the Nabatean elite would have been preaching idolatry so I don't think 16103 refers to them as the teachers.

So the possibilities would include a person of a mainly monotheistic religion.

Nadia

hlatif

Salam Ayman,

Thank you for sharing the articles that talk about the dotting of some of the early manuscripts of the Qur'an. The question will remain whether they were old enough or whether the dots were added later. One question that comes to minds is this Since you investigated the few preislamic arabic inscriptions on rocks and elsewhere, did you find any dots on them?

Related to the nabateans, I visited Petra several times and I remember many statues of Gods and Goddesses. I did however see obelisks that are used as a sign of the god THu Shara. Also, the most important find related to writing of the mundane life of the city were the Petra Papyri that were in greek and were found in a burned church. The doucments were related to people with clear semitic names and were not religious in nature at All (inheritance and land issues) and they were in Greek.

Take care and I thank you for sharing

Hussein

savage_carrot

Peace Hussein,

Thank you for sharing that information, I always thought of obelisks associated with sun worship because of the shadows that they would throw etc but it's very interesting...

Since you investigated the few preislamic arabic inscriptions on rocks and elsewhere, did you find any dots on them?

I too would like to know this...

Rgds,
Nadia

ayman

Peace sister Nadia, all,

Thank you for your comments.

The only things that appeared to me a bit out of place was the "hey man", and the pollination bit in 421-3. They don't gel imo of the 'feel', for lack of better words, in the reading...it is a personal thing, so i personally would hold my judgement on those words.

Why are they out of place?

The "hey man" is natural in any informal common people language such as "pre-quranic" Arabic. It is shocking now because we are not used of thinking of Classical Arabic as an informal language used by the common people.

As for "pollination", 423 starts with the word "kathalika/like that" so it points out that what is before it is an allegory.

Layth's post raises an interesting point though, which is that if the language of the religious elite was nabatean (aramaic?) and that of the common people was arabic, why would the disbelievers/religious clergy/pagans etc accuse him of being taught by a nabatean (aramaic?) speaking religious cleric/elite? especially since the quran was in arabic and they knew it...

Exactly, that is the same response that The God gives them

And indeed We know that they say "It is but a human that is teaching him." The language of the one they falsely attribute to is non-Arabic, while this is a clarifying Arabic language.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

ayman

Peace brother truth, all,

I looked at Wakas' post in relation to K3b and I must say that the meanings of swelling, ankle etc suggested to me the word PROMINENCE to be the correct translation.

I agree and I think that "glory/forefront/prominence" and "base" are two alternative possible equally valid meanings that fit in the context.

ayman

Peace bother Layth,

You 'assumed' that because they were speaking of the people of the book teaching him, and that since the people of the book are refered to as having a different language, that the Arabic language has two forms (religious & common).

Brother, I apologize if I was not clear but I never suggested that Arabic has two forms (religious and common). I conclude that Arabic only has one form, which is "common". Arabic at the time of the revelation of the great reading was an informal common people language not a formal religious one.

The people of the book did not use Arabic at all in religious teachings. If you disagree then it is very easy to prove me wrong. Please refer me to even ONE pre-quranic formal religious inscription in Arabic or ONE pre-quranic formal religious manuscripts in Arabic.

This is not a correct understanding of the verse as it only means what it says...That the people who are accused of teaching him the Quran were not of an Arabic toungue.

The verse doesn't talk of specific people or accuse specific people. It talks of a "bashar"/human in general that is teaching the prophet. Thus, Arabic was not a human language for teaching religion in general.

I merely pointed out that 16103 is confirmed by the fact that there are no pre-quranic formal religious inscriptions or manuscripts in Arabic.

Arabic has both common and religous aspects to it...The only issue is that their religious aspects were all idolatrous refering to Al-Llat and Uzza and Manat as examples in the Quran.

Those idols are Nabataean idols. Those names are Nabataean proper names that are meaningless labels. They don't reflect the true nature of those idols.

Please give an example of even one 100% religious Arabic term in the great reading. By "religious" I mean pertaining to organized religion.

Hence, since Mohammed was not preaching a new form of idolatry (which they would have welcomed and accepted) they said he was being taught by the 'foreigners' who were knowon to be preaching about the One God.

No they didn't say that he was taught by "foreigners". They said he was taught by a human. The God response is that the language of the human teaching that they falsely attribute to is foreign. Thus, it is any human, both foreigners and bilingual Arabs who teach religion exclusively in a foreign language.

Moreover, Christianity is also a form of idolatry (idolizing a trinity) and so are the majority of Judaic sects (idolizing their clergy and the Temple). Why would any idolater welcome a new form of idolatry? Would Sufis who idolize the prophet and their dead saints welcome idolizing the pope instead? It seems that you are reading too much that is not in the verse but is in the traditional understanding.

We know from archeological evidence that there were a large and growing number of Christian and Jewish Arabs at the time of the prophet. For example, the Arab Ghassanids were Christians. In fact, the majority of Arabs living in areas of Northern Arabia around Jerusalem were Christians.

Finally, your conclusion to the 'initials' being words is unsubstantiated since the example of H.M., ASQ is deliberetly seperated to indicate two sets rather than the same set of initials.

They are two words not two sets of initials. Luckily in Arabic separate initials take a completely different shape than letters which are part of a word. Can you see the difference between the following initials and words? Which are words and which are initials?

I hope that this can help you read the difference.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

ayman

Peace brother Hussein,

Since you investigated the few preislamic arabic inscriptions on rocks and elsewhere, did you find any dots on them?

The pre-quranic inscriptions that I have seen are in Musnad script, which doesn't have a similar dotting system like the Kufic script. It seems that the Kufic script doesn't become popular until after the revelation of the great reading.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman

ayman

Peace all,

The article has been posted here

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/language.htm

Thank you to brother Layth for his efforts in posting it (with pictures).

Hopefully, if The God willed the article will be beneficial in generating interest and debate to serve The God/The Truth.

Peace and all best wishes,

Ayman