The question of the authenticity of the Reading
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Peace,
The fatiha. On a beautiful read and reread, it is not Allah who speaks. It is clearly a prayer and an invocation where it is the faithful of Allah who are supposed to express themselves to ask the guidance of their God.
1587 And We have given you seven that are dual, and the great Qur'an.
The Fatiha / the opening (seven verses). Therefore, it is probably not part of what Allah calls Qur'an. A kind of preface. Still, it is well "tagged" by the famous Bismillah (with the verb of Allah) at the beginning to indicate that it is Allah himself who chose the words. Obviously, nowadays, Bismillah has lost its meaning.
15-87 obviously offers another dual reading. The number seven, which has the etymological meaning of "wild", may indicate an indefinite range (7 heavens, 7 gates, etc.). 15-87 could therefore translate this into a conference with several dualities of meaning, thus pointing to the several levels of conference offered parallel to the primary meaning.
15-87 obviously offers another dual reading. Allah loves to do that. The number seven, which has the etymological meaning of "wild", may indicate an indefinite range (7 heavens, 7 gates, etc.). 15-87 could therefore translate this into a conference with several dualities of meaning, thus pointing to the several levels of conference offered parallel to the primary meaning.
Basically, what the Fatiha expresses as an idea, in preface to the Qur'an, is that the reader who will open the Qur'an must pray to God to have the right interpretation and to be on the path of those who are guided, not that of those who are lost or those who encourage anger.
Leave aside the Fatiha and move on to the first verses of the Qur'an
21 ALM.
22 That is the book, which is without doubt-a guide for the righteous.
23 The ones who believe in the unseen, and hold the Connection, and from Our provisions to them they spend.The first verse is a kind of challenge. A reminder to humility.
The first intelligible words for us, for the moment, are "This is the book".
522 And a recorded Book.
523 In parchment published.982 A messenger from God reciting purified scripts.
8011 No, this is but a reminder.
8012 For whoever wills to remember.
8013 In scripts which are honorable.
8014 Raised and pure.
8015 By the hands of scribes.
8016 Honorable and righteous.Verse 2-2 also explains that the book is not for everyone. It is a book "without doubts" certainly, but only for those who want to take refuge near God. Either the famous sound of Sabil (same root as tap), which are attached to the flow that comes from above.
Those who do not have the twisted mind, taking the famous book in their hands, have to make the decision whether it comes from a God, a wise man, a madman. of a counterfeiter.
As stupid as it may seem, it is a decision that one takes in one's soul and conscience, by reading the book.The "philosophical" depth of the Qur'an is proof of authenticity for the Qur'an reader. By not reading the book, we miss the point.
The Koran reinforces the almost fundamentalist love of truth. Even minority. Even lonely. Even against national unity and cultural heritage. Even taunted. Even "excommunicated", even treated of madness. How many examples with Noah, Lot, Salih, Chuaib and many others.
The enemy of Islam is obscurantism. Those who lay the lie on the truth (kafir). The great purveyor in the wrong sense explained that the "dhalimin" of the Koran, repeatedly mentioned, are the unjust ones. But this term designates darkness and opposes clarity. Injustice is a consequence of obscurantism. And those who fight injustice by being tolerant of obscurantism are allies to injustice in the eyes of the Koran. Truth and faithfulness to the word given are supreme values for the Qur'an. A people tolerant with lies, who practice lies can not succeed.
758 And the good land, its plants are brought forth with the permission of its Lord. And for the one that is nasty, it does not bring forth except very little. It is such that We dispatch the signs for a people who are thankful.
A people who tolerate being led by people who see their commitments broken and take advantage of what is entrusted to them can not succeed.
1716 And if We wish to annihilate a town, We leave its reckless to rule it, then they commit wickedness in it, then the word is given, then We destroy it completely.
The primacy of values over the rest is an essential Qur'anic teaching. And a people who wants to pass on to a future generation the lies inherited from the previous one, in the name of a cultural identity idealized publicly and denigrated in intimacy, can not succeed.
To say the truth, or failing that which is sincerely believed, is a fight for light against obscurantism. To defend what is believed true with false arguments is to cover the true with the false. It's obscurantism.
For the author of this article, the depth of what he reads in the Koran relegates to the second place the question of its authenticity. Comment a fake can tell if true? How can a book that fervently preaches the truth and the right word perhaps a falsehood and a lie?
One of the greatest teachings of the Quran is that if it is the eyes that read, it is the mind that interprets. The same verses will be understood differently by a healthy spirit and a perverse spirit. Allah gives the book to all but the wahy (understanding, revelation) only to his followers.
The Quran is obviously about its own authenticity. The Quran reassures its followers by saying
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
as if to say, "do not worry, Allah takes care of it", then address others by basing the whole argument in the form of challenges.
The contradictions to find
482 Do they not reflect on the Qur'an? If it was from any other than God they would have found in it many a discrepancy.
and reproducibility
223 And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then bring a chapter like this, and call upon your witnesses other than God if you are truthful.1038 Or do they say "He has invented it!" Say "Then bring a chapter like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful."
1113 Or do they say "He has invented it!" Say "Then bring ten invented chapters like it, and call on whom you can besides God if you are truthful."
Nowhere does the Quran recommend other methods to prove its authenticity. Neither excavations, nor the story of his compilation, nor anything else. What an intellectual challenge.
This article is extracted from the site nawat
https//translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=fr&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=en&sp=nmt4&u=https//nawaat.org/portail/author/dukhani/&xid=17259,15700023,15700186,15700190,15700256,15700259,15700262,15700265,15700271,15700283&usg=ALkJrhgIzJzICVo0uzBiT84Wee-eKSZN1w
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Peace,
The Quran is obviously about its own authenticity. The Quran reassures its followers by saying
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
as if to say, "do not worry, Allah takes care of it", then address others by basing the whole argument in the form of challenges.
Peace..
It's a good thread.. Authenticity is key before having faith on it... Isn't it? When God said PRESERVE IT... Then we should deduce what is it? Is it physical Quran what Mualhamed was reading? Cannot be right... We don't have it now... But only thing by preserving IT could be the same thing what God delivered... Strangely God didn't give the responsibility to his Messenger.. Coz messenger won't live forever... So those who deserve in the future needs to refer exact words what was revealed and what is preserved... Of course... Any available copies of so called quran copies can be destroyed burned and humiliated... No one stops.. That we see by our naked eyes... Even in numerical phenomena threads people like ibn or NWQ brings claiming oldest copies... But carefully notice most of those are torn and most words not legible most missing from the page... So it is not what God promised to preserve... Can't be right? But somehow we have a Quran that we approach... To know we are approaching the right persevered book then there must be password protected... This password is key... That's numerical phenomena... Otherwise why should I approach half gnawed pieces of paper.. Is that what God claim preserve... Human will preserve better than that?
The contradictions to find
482 Do they not reflect on the Qur'an? If it was from any other than God they would have found in it many a discrepancy.
Very crucial.. Isn't it?.... Contradictions? What are they? Who judge it? Who clarify it? Suppose if I say such and such contradicts so who claims No it is not? So there should be debate to kill.. Right?
Further... Contradiction in understanding? Or contradict in Quran itself?
For contradiction in understanding we can debate and the one who convince in right way within Quran then it proves No contradiction... ...
Second point contradiction within Quran... Suppose Quran's reality.. Or rather the quran we have is the right one... One may claim this is the correct QURAN and another may claim No this is the right one... Then contradictory ..for example famous tampering... If one claim those two verses should be included but another claim No... Or else.. One claim this is the oldest copy so Alif not there and another claim No it is right.. Aren't these contractions? Who corrects these?
Is this what God says You won't find No contradiction in it.. But if it is from Human then contradiction... So find the human copy and God's copy is challenge... There comes password.. Human cannot put password to protect a book... But God did... -
Thank Jikhan for your input.
It is up to each one to judge his authenticity in all conscience. God has promised to preserve the content of the Qur'an. It is a guide for sincere believers, free of contradiction whenone meditate eache verse with a healthy mind. Those who rely on tradition to highlight contradictions, no importance. God reveals good understanding to sincere believers.
No need for a password to prove its authenticity, the content of the Koran is self-sufficient, God revealed it to the prophet and takes care himself to preserve its content.
God does not need any human being to prove his authenticity.
if our understandings diverge, the Koran does not contain any contradiction. contradictions are created by the human spirit.
We must be patient, all these contradictions will gradually disappear. Hence the need to meditate each verse to receive the guidance of our educator.I do not need to have parchment from the time of the prophet to be convinced of its authenticity. The current version is enough to me. It is the content of the message that matters, not the age of the parchment. I believe in its authenticity in the absence (bilghayb) of the version at the time of the prophet because Its content is inimitable, infinite source of wisdom and teaching free from contradictions.
God bless
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Following the article by the author of the NAWAT website
The Quran is to be read in serenity, in trust, far from all Satan's attempts to question his authenticity, his history and the conditions of his revelation. All these aspects are secondary for those who seek the salvation of their own souls from their God.
For others, at least sincere, I can only ask them to give the Quran the chance they give to other books, to think that there is a successful author who wrote things in the hope to be read without a priori, with honesty. That they do not block the idea that it comes from God. Let them judge on the piece and not on what they are told.
The Qur'an is a link of great purity between Allah and his followers. With the Qur'an in the hands, no intermediary between Allah and his faithful is required. And even if we do not understand everything, what we can understand is already huge.
Whatever the history of the book, even if there are areas of shadows in the understanding, the Qur'an is a book that is worth by itself, by its content, and by the subtleties that Allah reserves for its faithful in the sense of those who study it, I must specify. It is a book just waiting to be read and studied. A book that pays off at every reading as a reward for hard-working students.
1424 Did you not note how God puts forth the example that a good word is like a good tree, whose root is firm and whose branches are in the sky.
1425 It bears its fruit every so often with the permission of its Lord; and God puts forth the examples for the people,
The debate on the authenticity of the Qur'an will never be closed. This is impossible simply because the Qur'an will always be considered false by those who do not want to believe in it and also and especially by those who do not want to believe in the existence of a God provider in spirit of truth. It's a long story and Ibliss was the first arrogant spirit to think himself a geyser of truths.
The Qur'an establishes the institution of Hajj for the contradictory debates with the recalcitrant, the "Salat" for individual meditation and the Salat Joumaa (in group), the most suitable day, for the deeper debates between the faithful who have gone beyond asking questions about authenticity. That the reader (sincere) excuses the mixture of genres in this article.perhaps they will remember.
3932 Who is more wicked than he who lies about God, and denies the truth when it comes to him? Is there not in Hell an abode for the rejecters?
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I cannot agree more on the fact that it is the content of the Qur'an that speaks for its authenticity.
I have noghing however against those who think that there is also a code of whatever kind, or marvel. In fact it is withing God's ability to device anything for any purpose.
The content itself however for me is quite sufficient.
I think the big problems come when we feed our endeavours to enlighten ourselves through the Qur'an with input from other sources, like pre ious interpretations or translations, particularly the latter. If lacking knowledge or ability in Arabic, in fact many people are left to fend for themselves in search of truth. Those who trust still can manage to get truth from the Qur'an, but it is harder for them and takes more effort.
What can be done by those who have a grasp of the Arabic Qur'an is help along others, and share their findings. Good will and purity of mind will help and in fac there are people who with no knowledge or hardly any of Arabic, still come up with much better views of the Qur'an than Arabic speakers who go along with what they are handed down and do not undertake an honest search.
Salaam
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We are agree, the content of the Reading is sifficient to realize that it is divine message.
The language is not a barrier, when we read the reading with a healthy and sincere spirit, our educator Rabb guides all sincere seekers whatever their language.
What I mean by that, when the translation of a verse is not right, we feel it in our heart. -
We are agree, the content of the Reading is sifficient to realize that it is divine message.
The language is not a barrier, when we read the reading with a healthy and sincere spirit, our educator Rabb guides all sincere seekers whatever their language.
What I mean by that, when the translation of a verse is not right, we feel it in our heart.Peace....
Yes.. Content is pretty clear... But you should agree that among believers there is difference of opinion... That cannot be guidance and that cannot clarification from one QURAN... That we have to address collectively.... For example whether Ibrahim attempted sacrifice or separation... These we have contradiction in understanding and knowledge...
Further God himself entice us.. Saying you will find many a contradiction if it is from other than God.... So if one is perfectly understood within Quran message only he will know whether contradiction there or not... If we don't find contradiction means we have been guided but if we have discrepancies among believers in interpreting it then that doesn't mean we are guided to what is revealed ....we go in two direction with one Quran and can never say who is right... God will judge.. But what about who got it wrong and still thought he is right... Example.. My thought is saflcrifice and some other separation... What happens if one of us is wrong.. One of us has made a serious blasphemy against God.. Against His verse.
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Peace Everyone...
We can't take the contradiction/discrepancy verse of quran very lightly... It has a huge meaning...
God claims that we will find too many contradictions if the quran is from others....Silence won't work out if one claim that there is contradiction... then it will end up among people as contradiction for sure... if it is not clarified even believers may tempt to think that there is contradiction in quran.... God says that there is No to Contradiction in His book but in human's book...Unless believers collectively point out to every claim from disbelievers that quran has contradiction with reasonable debate then it may look that there is contradiction.... Quran is weapon to negate them.. Coz God claim there is No contradiction.. so with that convincing statement we as believers can forge ahead to argue any such claims that quran has contradiction... but in right and proper and logical manner...
My question is, if no stand up to negate the claims of having contradiction.... How one would in fact be precise that there is No contradiction... Silence will say that we are unable to respond.. or Silence would say that there is contradiction being unable to overcome...So what is the use of God's Claim that there is no discrepancy or contradiction or doubt in quran... It's just a useless challenge or it has a reality in it...
Hope my fellow believers do understand the concern crystal clearly......Just coz we are believers and simply saying that there is no contradiction just coz book says so is not worthy... Just prove what the book says...that's worthy...
Otherwise it will be like in court anyone is under custody for allegedly committing a crime and he is silent in a way as if he in fact did the crime... That silence would end up him as a culprit if the real culprits are more active against..... Silence is not what God expected by saying that IN THIS QURAN NO DISCREPANCY.... -
Salaam,
Peace..
It's a good thread.. Authenticity is key before having faith on it... Isn't it? When God said PRESERVE IT... Then we should deduce what is it? Is it physical Quran what Mualhamed was reading? Cannot be right... We don't have it now... But only thing by preserving IT could be the same thing what God delivered... Strangely God didn't give the responsibility to his Messenger.. Coz messenger won't live forever... So those who deserve in the future needs to refer exact words what was revealed and what is preserved... Of course... Any available copies of so called quran copies can be destroyed burned and humiliated... No one stops.. That we see by our naked eyes... Even in numerical phenomena threads people like ibn or NWQ brings claiming oldest copies... But carefully notice most of those are torn and most words not legible most missing from the page... So it is not what God promised to preserve... Can't be right? But somehow we have a Quran that we approach... To know we are approaching the right persevered book then there must be password protected... This password is key... That's numerical phenomena... Otherwise why should I approach half gnawed pieces of paper.. Is that what God claim preserve... Human will preserve better than that?
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Peace jkhan,
As you cited me, see my understanding about the preservation of the Quran
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I think that the particular spelling of some words in the Quran we have today is not inconsistent, it is for a purpose and in time the purpose will be revealed by God.
Like the example of the word Ibraheem , spelled without Ya ي in chapter 2 and spelled with Ya ي in the rest of the Quran.
There is no logique in saying that the scribes changed the spelling of the word Ibraheem only in chapter 2 and not in the rest of the Quran, they must have had a source for these particular spellings.
Cautious when saying "inconsistent" about the current manuscript especially when in condradiction with Quran veses referring to the the preservation of the Quran by God.
Salaam,
Peace jkhan,
- Not agree when for example, they reject verses (9128-129) or add an initial letter ( an extra "Nun" in 681 ) to obtain a desired result, I think that this would contradict with the preservation of the Quran.
e.g.
159
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/15/9/4141-42
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/41/41/
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/41/42/5677-78
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/56/77/
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/56/78/7517-18-19
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/75/17/
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/75/18/
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/75/19/8521 -22
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/85/21/
https//www.islamawakened.com/quran/85/22/...
والله اعلم
Allah knows best. -
Salaam,
Peace jkhan,
As you cited me, see my understanding about the preservation of the Quran
والله اعلم
Allah knows best.Peace Ibn...
Yes.. but it is not the Quran Muhamed completed... What Muhamed completed wrote by His own hand is to date NO MORE.. that was intentional by Saying to the Messenger that it is OUR DUTY .. But What Muhamed followed and what God revealed should reach to the believers if God wants to guide them.... That i believe has reached... But unfortunately God knows when He stopped delivering messages through a human messenger with verses and chapters is sealed well before... We are no more privileged to pose questions to God's Messenger and answers come directly from God addressing us... That is over.. Why? God has not given that much of importance after his Final prophet though the population comparatively ever increasing..Doesn't He know who lives on earth... But very minute believers will fortunately live, for them God will guide with His blessings and verses...
Remember well All book/s of God spoke directly to the particular people it was delivered... Except common messages concerning all human (then and now).. -
Introduction of the Grand Qur’ān
The first concern of a serious/critical reader is the accuracy, reliability and objectivity of the Book in hand. These concerns are satisfied only if the book is void of suspicious, conjectural, whimsical, conflicting, un-certain, illusory, perplexing, biased and opinionated matter.
Grand Qur’ān is perhaps the only book that cares and respects the concern and time value of serious reader. It addresses the natural apprehension and uncertainty the reader might feel having picked up the Book in the hope and pursuit of truth
http//haqeeqat.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/temp%2002%20%202.002.gif
This is the Book, you will find reading it that its contents are absolutely void of peeving substance suspicious, conjectural, whimsical, conflicting, ambiguous, anomalous, irrational, un-certain, illusory, unsubstantiated, incongruous, biased and opinionated matter.
"Raiba" and "shakk" are two different words of Arabic language, not interchangeable.
http//haqeeqat.pk/TranslationInimitabilityLaRaibaFehi.htm