Who ordered Qoran in the chapters we have now?
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Peace All.
I have been looking at authorship of Qoran lately and asked three questions1- Is it correct that the prophet had a different arrangement than we have?
2- Why was there a need to change the arrangement?
3- What is the evidence that the current arrangement cannot be man made? i.e Qoran assertion that GOD will arrange it in the current form we have it. (Surah 75 16-17)Do not move your tongue to hasten it.
لا تُحَرِّك بِهِ لِسانَكَ لِتَعجَلَ بِهِ
It is we who will collect it into Quran.
إِنَّ عَلَينا جَمعَهُ وَقُرءانَهُWhile investigating these three questions, I now have no doubt whatsoever that only GOD could have arranged it the way we have now.
In fact it is clear to me that GOD was saying to the prophet not to rush anything just keep receiving and passing on the verses as the come to you,it is not your job to order them or worry about explaining them.
GOD will see to it /inspire the arrangement conforms to the plan of GOD to protect every letter,every word and every verse in the exact number where they belong.I have looked into numerous history, claims, mathematical and linguistic. The main and clear evidence to me comes from the mathematical side .
I will give one small example of one Surah, as explained here
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oc65915hKU&t=12sI have no doubt that only GOD can put each letter ,word,verse exactly where it stands now, in the Qoran we have now.
Unless of course one finds mistakes or calls it coincidence and produces similar work.
GOD bless you all
Peace.Peace brother GL
Of course God is the one who revealed the book... Can it be a book if not in order to read it?
But the question is how did God do it? God revealed verses or chapters depends on length... Once everything is revealed or completed the revelation to fulstop, there needs a book to read if God says He preserved it... As you are aware though God says He does in certain cases... Does it really mean He does it without any other involve... For example revelation of quran... God didn't speak to Muhamed in my understanding of Quran.. What I take is revealed through a Messenger and then He seems memorised it...not alone but Eith companions.. But somehow we have a book in its form hopefully very old.. But concern is do you say that the messenger didn't place the Quran in order according to God's instructions or God Himself did it.. Or someone else did it according to God's instructions..If God revealed the book then why He assign someone else to make its order.. For me everything is from God but messenger did it.. Who qualifies better than messenger to do it while the duty of messenger is to deliver the message... Deliver it in a readable order... I have no clue why most make it a big deal... But all these fuss coz they consider messenger to be illiterate...
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It is simple brother khan.
GOD gave instructions to the prophet on the process of the delivery during his life and after that.
In turn the prophet delivered the message of Qoran and the instruction of how to arrange it to the trusted believers who in turn followed that instruction (or not!) under the watchful eye and soldiers of GOD.What happened with Qoran and its history was guided by GOD during the time of the prophet, after it until his death and what happened for 1400 hundred years after that and what happened from 1974 to now and what is going to happen in the future.
There were many things in Qoran that had to wait,like Science and Mathematics and technology...
Wait ,we too are waiting prophecy has been fulfilled, "inshakka Al Qamar" has been fulfilled, mathematical composition was fulfilled and carries on to be fulfilled into the future... And Hajooj ,majooj will be fulfilled ...etc
Praise be to GOD, Lord of the universe.GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Salaam Good Logic,
I have the same questions as you, and I found that it always a team work and not by individual. Maybe you want to consider these following verses,=The Writers
8011 No, this is but a reminder.
8012 For whoever wills to remember.
8013 In scripts which are honorable.
8014 Raised and pure.
8015 By the hands of scribes.
8016 Honorable and righteous.
Most likely they were the same group/persons who has been assigned to make Quran in parts,
=The Divider
1590 As We sent down on those who divided.
1591 The ones who have made the Qur'an in parts.
So I believe that the current arrangement of the Al Quran is based on God's order to these group of people.
And how does the Qur'an come to our hands through people chosen by God.
3532 Then We inherited the Book to those whom We selected from Our servants. Subsequently, some of them wronged themselves, and others upheld it partly, while others were eager to work righteousness in accordance with the will of God; such is the great benefit.
However, there is no guarantee that by being chosen by God, they are among the righteous. And As far as I know, the printed and distributed Quran mostly comes from the Sunni or Shia line.
By the way, I really respect the person who wrote the titles of the surah. It's like there is a hidden message behind the selection of the title of the surah. The title of the surah does not always dominate the contents of the surah, sometimes even only one or two verses, but almost always has a deep meaning.
Peace
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Peace tlihawa.
Bare in mind ,the numerical system of Qoran is also not just about codes but about a perfect harmony of number relationship that the words and letters give in their arrangement in the text, have a look at this examplehttps//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCRdrzuzpDc
Only GOD can manage this perfect harmony of numbers arranged in a literature text!
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace...
Leave aside the chapter headings for which you have no Quranic proof to buttress them..@ GL..
You were bit ambiguous in your first thread probably only my understanding. May be not.. Thing is you sounded like prophet didn't do.. In fact prophet did but only according to God's arrangement...
@ tilhawa...
Scribes wrote the replicates.. That's fine.. But not the genuine authentic original book... MOHAMED was the messenger of Quran and no one deserves to make it in book form and no one will receive such message from God... For sure...
Remember... Messenger memorised at the same time he wrote it.. Memorise Chapter 73...
Writing 255-6 "And they say, "Legends of the former peoples which he has written down, and they are dictated to him morning and afternoon".
Say, , "It has been revealed by He who knows secret within the heavens and the earth. Indeed, He is ever Forgiving and Merciful."So messenger has memorised as well written the Quran even before it was completed.. But of course not in order...
So once everything is delivered, it should become a book...
7516-17 seems to be message baring messenger from what he tried to do himself... It was not just order but an order as result of action of messenger which he didn't know... But seems he tried..
God says it's our duty to collect it.. So it definitely shows quran was not in order but with previous examples of verses quran was definitely memorised (not in order) at the same time Written (not in order)..
Since God promised the messenger after warning him in verse 7516-17 God only woukd give the job to messenger but with God's preferred order and not Messenger's...
So.. First authentic quran was inevitably written and placed in order by none other than the messenger who delivered the message...
But one Quran won't suffice and needs to be replicated.. Scribes are indispensable...so quran distributed... But remember God promised the preservation.. It is very obvious that physical quran even the one written by the Hand of messenger is not preserved.. That's undeniable... But preserve what is revealed.. That's beyond doubt... Only way to know it is mathematical code.. I wonder how else one would confirm that the Quran we have now is what is written by messenger without blemishes ..
That's my understanding... -
Peace tlihawa.
Bare in mind ,the numerical system of Qoran is also not just about codes but about a perfect harmony of number relationship that the words and letters give in their arrangement in the text, have a look at this examplehttps//www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCRdrzuzpDc
Only GOD can manage this perfect harmony of numbers arranged in a literature text!
GOD bless you.
Peace.Salam Good Logic,
thanks for the video. It reminded me of the following verse,7829 And everything We have counted in a book.
Peace...
Leave aside the chapter headings for which you have no Quranic proof to buttress them..Salaam Jkhan,
I just want to share my experiences and what I saw from the chapter heading. Chapter Heading is part of the Qur'an that I have received at the moment. What I did during fasting <extensive study part> in Ramadhan, I studied Al Quran by looking at the chapter heading, and start from there. There's a lot of things I got from there so I don't want to leave them aside. It is not about quranic proof to buttress them, but just the benefit and I would like to share it.Peace
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Peace..
Yes.. It's fine that you remember quran with heading.. I use number to remember it..
Don't ever say chapter headings are from Allah.. If so bring proof within Quran.. So as one who doesn't accept chapter heading as part of quran may ponder... But for me chapter heading mere human convenience...
God says 2 things when it comes to quran / book.. They are verses and chapters..
God says whoever denies the verses of Quran are heading but Hell fire.. So now I deny the chapter headings... Do I deny the verses God... No way.. And will never if God will otherwise... If it is part of quran it needs to be verses considered verses of quran.. Then I wonder 19 code tally.. God revealed none other than verses which ended as chapters...Messenger wrote it for sure.. I have no knowledge of comprehensive Arabic but I am not fool while looking at it how diverse this language is...
Imagine... When a verse is revealed.. Messenger will definitely not know how to write by using which letter.. Why I say so is..
Example salat.. Don't you see how different it spelled place to place...for what reason it differs... But still pronounced as Salat... Messenger cannot decide it even how expert he could have been in Arabic.. But Quran writing is so peculiar... Ask any expert of Arab who has never read a single verse of Quran... Let him write while you pronounce the Quran.. I am absolutely sure that you would find so many contradiction to the writing pattern of his and what is quran... But what he wrote may not be wrong but will never match to Quran's way of writing.. So messenger cannot decide the spelling of Quran only the one brought it would have said to use such and such letters.. That's why I have a robust opinion that no scribes would have replicated the Quran before it was a complete quran (original first and foremost) -
Salam,
The answer is already given to us...The Quran was arranged in its current format by the Prophet - based on instructions he received through the Holy Spirit.
16101 And if We exchange a revelation in place of another revelation; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they say "You are making this up!" Alas, most of them do not know.
16102 Say "The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord with the truth, so that those who believe will be strengthened, and as a guidance and good news for those who have submitted."
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Peace Layth
Actually both answers were given to us .
The revelation of verses to the prophet (The verses of Qoran inspired by GOD through the spirit (What you mentioned in your post0.
And the arrangement of Qoran as per 7517.after the whole Qoran was given.Or are you saying the prophet was receiving the verses in the order we have now?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Layth.
"Making things up apply to verses received in the context of the verses around it,not verses arranged.
Have you any evidence for this, quote;
"Yes, the prophet, according to the verses I quoted was rearranging the verses himself (which is when he is accused of 'making things up', while God said He is the one inspiring these verse arrangements".I am interested if you have?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
It seems that al-Hajjaj, governor of Irak under Caliph Abd al-Malik, played a major role in the canonization of Qur'an, first by making it a corpus (a book), instead of independant chapters, and then ordering the chapters in the order we have now.
