How would you answer this question
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3.7
Arberry It is He who sent down upon thee the Book, wherein are verses clear that are the Essence of the Book, and others ambiguous. As for those in whose hearts is swerving, they follow the ambiguous part, desiring dissension, and desiring its interpretation; and none knows its interpretation, save only God. And those firmly rooted in knowledge say, 'We believe in it; all is from our Lord'; yet none remembers, but men possessed of minds.Shakir He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation. but none knows its interpretation except Allah, and those who are firmly rooted in knowledge say We believe in it, it is all from our Lord; and none do mind except those having understanding.
Pickthall He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book - and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it. None knoweth its explanation save Allah. And those who are of sound instruction say We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
It seems that only Allah knows the meaning of the allegorical verses. Then there is a point or a comma. Those who are firmly in knowlege say they believe in it ( it isn't said that they know the meaning of them).
So I wonder why all the verses are translated (exept three letters but proposed ALM or Alif, Lam, Mim) if some are only known by Allah. If I'm not wrong(I asked myself this question about some years ago).Is it not a risk to mislead/deceive people who are reading translations ?
I remember another translation into French with no point or comma and some people (like Nidal Guessoum if I remember well) assuming that only Allah and those who are firmly in knowledge know the meaning of them but there is another verb after, which is "say." Those who are firmly in knoledge say(they believe in them,its all from Allah).I didn't read ( and I don't); "except Allah and those who are firmly in knowledge which say...."
Edit I get from an arabe to french dictionnary مُّحْكَمَاتٌ translated as court, referee or arbitrator. When somebody say "hakam" I understand command ( or give order) ...
and for تَشَابَهَ I get alike, similarity, something that looks like the same. In French translations( made by translators of al quran) we have " à equivoque" ( equivocal, ambiguous).
so differents meanings for those words... I wonder how they choose them. -
Peace
I was reading this website and came across this
'The Quran says that it is “clear”, but then says elsewhere (37) that only Allah understands the meaning of some verses (which begs the question of why they are there). 'How would you argue these points?
Salam,
37 is talking about the Kitab and not about the Quran. They are not the same (1037)
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Peace,
10.37
You should say more...
Maybe your understand arabic, but it isn't the case for all. And in some translations there is no mentions of the book (but if we chek in arabic there is a mention 'lkitabi).
And in others, we find " the scripture, the existing book ( the Bible) and we can also find the Book.If you can explain what you understand. Sarah asked questions maybe she needs details.
Thanks.
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Peace,
10.37
You should say more...
Maybe your understand arabic, but it isn't the case for all. And in some translations there is no mentions of the book (but if we chek in arabic there is a mention 'lkitabi).
And in others, we find " the scripture, the existing book ( the Bible) and we can also find the Book.If you can explain what you understand. Sarah asked questions maybe she needs details.
Thanks.
Salam, sister
Well, there is a huge problem with translations and especially with the brackets which directly express one personal interpretation of one singular person, the translator. Sister Sara can go herself through this great journey and discover her own interpretation, may Allah guide her, with an open, pure, empty from a priori ideas and brackets mind and without no one. I just proposed to her my understanding which is that Kitab and Quran are not the same. It is not stated if Kitab was sent in "arabic" and it is not said that Kitab is a "book" as we understand a "book", thus ayat in the kitab is not necessary a verse. Ayat can mean other things (3022).
If you take it like this and forget that Kitab is a "book" with pages and that verses are not necessarily a limited group of words, the understanding can be quite different. And if you take it like this there is absolutely no dilemma of clear / not clear verses, allegorical or whatever, and so on.
About the existing/former scriptures (if they are scriptures), it is never said they are the book, they just "confirm" / "affirm" what is "yadayhi" (between his hands)... In any case, each one makes his/her own interpretation and research, may Allah guide us all
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Peace
I was reading this website and came across this
'The Quran says that it is “clear”, but then says elsewhere (37) that only Allah understands the meaning of some verses (which begs the question of why they are there). It says that it explains "all things" (1689), but then tells Muslims to follow the example of Muhammad (3321) - without saying what that is.'How would you argue these points?
Peace Sarah
37 doesn't say that only God understands the verses
He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
3321 just tells us that in the messenger of God there is a good example. This does not mean that it is the only good possible example. I don't see an issue with citing a good example.
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Read ur detailed analogy n analysis..brother its amazing..thanx for sharing
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Salam, sister
Well, there is a huge problem with translations and especially with the brackets which directly express one personal interpretation of one singular person, the translator. Sister Sara can go herself through this great journey and discover her own interpretation, may Allah guide her, with an open, pure, empty from a priori ideas and brackets mind and without no one. I just proposed to her my understanding which is that Kitab and Quran are not the same. It is not stated if Kitab was sent in "arabic" and it is not said that Kitab is a "book" as we understand a "book", thus ayat in the kitab is not necessary a verse. Ayat can mean other things (3022).
If you take it like this and forget that Kitab is a "book" with pages and that verses are not necessarily a limited group of words, the understanding can be quite different. And if you take it like this there is absolutely no dilemma of clear / not clear verses, allegorical or whatever, and so on.
About the existing/former scriptures (if they are scriptures), it is never said they are the book, they just "confirm" / "affirm" what is "yadayhi" (between his hands)... In any case, each one makes his/her own interpretation and research, may Allah guide us all
Salam sister
I agree with what is in bold; I think that a translator should not add words, giving his understanding because it can be wrong and misleading.
We can also note that it is sometimes chosen a word for translation instead of another (even if it can fit very well) and in other verses they chose this another word. I wonder why. I think that we can't rely on those translations, we have to check if we can.For the rest, I can give a clear opinion because of my lack of knowledge about it.
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Peace Sarah
37 doesn't say that only God understands the verses
He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
3321 just tells us that in the messenger of God there is a good example. This does not mean that it is the only good possible example. I don't see an issue with citing a good example.
Salam,
The understanding can be different. Depends on where are the dots , commas and semicolons in translation. In arabic, we don't find any dots, commas or semicolons. So how can we decide where to put them in verses like this one ?
And an important question I asked before, how can we have all the verses translated if some are only Allah or only Allah and those who are well founded in knowledge ?
We have diiferent translations...
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Peace Fadiva.
You say ,quote
"And an important question I asked before, how can we have all the verses translated if some are only Allah or only Allah and those who are well founded in knowledge ?We have diiferent translations..."
What is your understanding?
How can verses have different meanings ?
In that case each to thier own translation ,hence to their own Qoran!
And that is what we have nowdays don t you think?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Fadiva.
You say ,quote
"And an important question I asked before, how can we have all the verses translated if some are only Allah or only Allah and those who are well founded in knowledge ?We have diiferent translations..."
What is your understanding?
How can verses have different meanings ?
In that case each to thier own translation ,hence to their own Qoran!
And that is what we have nowdays don t you think?
GOD bless you.
Peace.Salam good logic,
I think if only Allah knows the meaning of the verses mutashabih, we should not (mustn't would be correct) try to translate them, be humble and believe all is from Allah.
If only Allah + the founded in knowledge, how to recognize those people ? How can we be sure if oneself is among them ?I think that maybe some translations are made according to some other sources, maybe some of them are not really sincere, maybe we can find explanation in their culture...I can't be sure.
But if only Allah knows the meanings of the mutashabih verses, we should only find the muhkham verses translated and a sincere believer should recognize them or remember that.
Not easy to answer. I think, as I said that we should not follow the translation blindly but we have to check if we can (al quran has a lot of verses). We can't follow our desires to translate the way we want. It demands patience. I think the most sensible behaviour is to ask Allah, be patient and not follow what we are not sure about, what we have no evidence. -
Peace Sarah
37 doesn't say that only God understands the verses
He is the One who sent down to you the book, from which there are definite signs; they are the essence of the book; and others, which are multiple-meaning. As for those who have disease in their hearts, eager to cause confusion and eager to derive their interpretation, they will follow what is multiple-meaning from it. But none knows their meaning except God and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say, "We acknowledge it, all is from our Lord." None will remember except the people of intellect.
3321 just tells us that in the messenger of God there is a good example. This does not mean that it is the only good possible example. I don't see an issue with citing a good example.
Peace everyone...
Read this article... And give your thoughts if possible....
https//www.linkedin.com/pulse/curse-those-who-believe-allahs-verses-ambiguous-true-meaning-khan
But only those who are well versed in Arabic grammar may be able to pick errors in this article...
Hope someone point out if there is a mistake..
Thank you and hope it benefits -
Salam good logic,
I think if only Allah knows the meaning of the verses mutashabih, we should not (mustn't would be correct) try to translate them, be humble and believe all is from Allah.
If only Allah + the founded in knowledge, how to recognize those people ? How can we be sure if oneself is among them ?I think that maybe some translations are made according to some other sources, maybe some of them are not really sincere, maybe we can find explanation in their culture...I can't be sure.
But if only Allah knows the meanings of the mutashabih verses, we should only find the muhkham verses translated and a sincere believer should recognize them or remember that.
Not easy to answer. I think, as I said that we should not follow the translation blindly but we have to check if we can (al quran has a lot of verses). We can't follow our desires to translate the way we want. It demands patience. I think the most sensible behaviour is to ask Allah, be patient and not follow what we are not sure about, what we have no evidence.If we can't follow our desires, and we don't know how to recognize the "founded in knowledge", and we can't tell the best of translations and interpretations, how do we do it ?
In general, how do you tell right from wrong ? Do we have the ability to tell right from wrong or do we just stick to belief and patience as you said ?
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Salam.
If I can add my 2 cents worth on this subject...
The Quran is both clear and unclear at the same time.
It is clear to those who want to learn (5417)...God is its ultimate teacher (551-2)...And it is completely locked to those who have not surrendered - their hearts are blocked from it (625)
As for 37, that tells us that the Quran is split into 2 sections 1. The basic Suras/Verses, 2. The Suras/Verses with deeper meanings that only those founded in knowledge would understand.
I would also add my opinion that the 29 initialed Suras are the "firm" suras/verses, while the rest of the Quran is what required deeper study/understanding.
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My take,
Some of things are signs, examples, and they need not be followed exactly without knowing the inner meaning in those, its like a moral story being told, but instead of following the moral, some only copying what the characters did without understanding or not worrying about the sign or moral, so Allah only knows why those characters did that at those circumstances, and Men in understanding knows what the moral of the story is.
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If we can't follow our desires, and we don't know how to recognize the "founded in knowledge", and we can't tell the best of translations and interpretations, how do we do it ?
In general, how do you tell right from wrong ? Do we have the ability to tell right from wrong or do we just stick to belief and patience as you said ?
Salam,
Note I am talking according to what I know and feel now, maybe I will have more knowledge later. I have a lot to learn.
They are verses which are clear to everyone I think like the ones commanding to believe that their is just one God and good deeds example feeding, giving clothes or money to the poor people.
We have to read with attention.
Being patient is not doing nothing I meant here asking Allah 's help and reading Al quran and make the effort to understand what is possible to understand (they several words repetated several times in Al quran and there is a reason). It demands time. And there are other signs. Some people might be well guided even if they can't read but understand the good from the evil. Allah guides who he wants. He knows best.We can't just say what are the best translations without checking (checking the arabic words and their meaning and compare to other verses).
Concerning the "alike" verses, I have to be careful, I will not try to give a meaning if it's to ambiguous for me.
When I said " not to follow" our desires, it was about to chose to interprete a verse the way that suits us . Sincerity is very important.
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Salam.
If I can add my 2 cents worth on this subject...
The Quran is both clear and unclear at the same time.
It is clear to those who want to learn (5417)...God is its ultimate teacher (551-2)...And it is completely locked to those who have not surrendered - their hearts are blocked from it (625)
As for 37, that tells us that the Quran is split into 2 sections 1. The basic Suras/Verses, 2. The Suras/Verses with deeper meanings that only those founded in knowledge would understand.
I would also add my opinion that the 29 initialed Suras are the "firm" suras/verses, while the rest of the Quran is what required deeper study/understanding.
Salam Layth,
How can you be sure that those founded in knowledge understand them ? In arabic, there are no dots, commas and semicolons. We can have two meanings depending if we add and where we place them.
Is there another verse (or several)that leads you to that understanding ? -
Salam Fadiva,
The Quran was delivered orally (recited) before it was recorded. It is therefore not difficult to see how this oral transmission would have retained the correct reading - even without the vowel marks - until the vowel marks were added.
What difference there was in the recitations, later spilled out into the text, giving us the "7 readings" or "10 readings" (depending on your reference). The differences are cataloged and are quite small (less than 1% of the text affected), with the biggest difference being the 'verse stops' that vary greatly between the Hafs and Warsh written versions.
https//www.free-minds.org/which-quran
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Salam Layth,
Thank you for the link to the article. I have juste read it, and it is also said that there are differences in the meaning of some words. The way that some verses are read can be understood differently...
7 or more readings accepted because it is said that nabi Mohammed accepted them. But normaly just one reading is correct, isn't it ? That s my understanding , al quran was revealed in pure arabic.
The author of this article seems to be right.39.28
قُرْآنًا عَرَبِيًّا غَيْرَ ذِي عِوَجٍ لَّعَلَّهُمْ يَتَّقُونَ
