What does the quran say about fortune telling
-
Peace.
I don't see fortune telling as pprohibited in the Quran, but it seems to me that this is not prohibited simply its impossible to do anyway. When someone makes a prediction for you, you naturally look for things in your life which would be in line with the prediction. For example, some geyser told my dad that I would have 2 difficult years, when I am 16-18. Its no suprsie that these are the years that I'm doing my A-levels!
So personally, I think it all boils down to the commandment in the Quran about refraining from lying, and from vain talk!
Glad to see what others think of fortune telling.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
-
Say ?I do not posses for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills. And if I could know the future, then I would have increased my good fortune, and no harm would have come to me. I am but a warner and a bearer of good news to a people who believe.?
-
So if they turn away, then Say ?I have given you notice sufficiently, and I do not know if what you are promised is near or far.?
-
-
Peace be upon you,
Many cultures have an Oracle system, some use cowry shells, others cards, and other bones, etc.
I have come to find that I am not sure what this readings(quran) decision is on that subject, becaause what I find is that Zachariah and others CAST LOTS to see who would take care of Mary, and it was NOT REPRIMANDED.
Casting Lots is a form of Oracle.
It is stated that Oracles (I am not talking about tarot) are used to know WHEN to apply a certain faculty. There is a time when we should be vigilant, and a time when we should be forgiving, both are stated in the reading, but how do we know WHEN to use either?
Just my observations, I have no definate opinion about the subject, but don't want anyone to OVERLOOK the clear usage of Oracles in THIS READING(quran).
-
Peace all
I have two questions that I believe are relevant to current topic.
Why has Yusuf Ali translated 3184, 1644 and 3525 as books of dark prophecies ?
What can we say Isa is doing when he presents clear proofs that Ahmad will come after him in 616 ?
pz
-
What can we say Isa is doing when he presents clear proofs that Ahmad will come after him in 616 ?
Messenger work.
- And as a messenger to the Children of Israel ?I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; that I create for you from clay the form of a bird, then I blow into it and it becomes a bird by God?s leave, and I heal the blind and the leapers, and give life to the dead by God?s leave, and I prophesize for you what you shall eat and what to store in your homes. In that is a sign for you if you are believers.?
Peace
-
Peace be upon you all,
I would like to go back to the discussion of Oracles (not fortune telling).
How does everyone understand the use of Oracles(casting lots) by Zachariah?
ALso, the God says "it is not YOU who threw but WE threw", so if we have a complete Orcale system, like those used in African and Asian (I ching) cultures, why can we not trust the THROWING of cards, cowry shells, ect?
Do we think the God does NOT throw and that it really is us?
I am interested to see the responses.
Peace to you all.
-
Peace idolfree, all
I think it makes a more sense if we see that the angels were amongst themselves trying to make a decision, rather than predict the future, much like we humans do at the start of a cricket match. But obviously, God made that decision becuyase he has control over all things, and so he had control over the conclusion that the angels came to. Similarly, we are not prohibited from flipping a coin to see which team gets to bat first! Hope thats helps. Criticism welcome.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Peace Khalil, all
Your question about Yusuf Ali's translation. It is clear that many translators try to make their translations different to other's with the intentions of increasing their credibility, and alos to open up the doors for joke book based interpretation. I myself never look at Yusuf Ali's translations. An example of one of the reasons can be seen in his translation of 802...
080.002
YUSUFALI Because there came to him the blind man (interrupting).
PICKTHAL Because the blind man came unto him.
SHAKIR Because there came to him the blind man.
KHALIFA When the blind man came to him.I don't think we need to go into why he came up with concept of a book of dark prophecies from something perfectly innocent D . All I would say is that this man has a hell of an imagination, and the skill to get sheep following him. Lets just say he knows how to get his work published and make a lot of money out of it, just like freud.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Peace Zenje
Thank you for your answer. I agree that Isa spoke of Ahmad by God's leave-God working through Isa, as Idolfree often states God threw and not us.
Then does 616 show that it is possible for someone to predict future events before their ocurence?
pz
- And as a messenger to the Children of Israel ?I have come to you with a sign from your Lord; that I create for you from clay the form of a bird, then I blow into it and it becomes a bird by God?s leave, and I heal the blind and the leapers, and give life to the dead by God?s leave, and I prophesize for you what you shall eat and what to store in your homes. In that is a sign for you if you are believers.?
Peace
edit I wil respond to all the other posts in due time. Night night for now.
-
Then does 616 show that it is possible for someone to predict future events before their ocurence?
Only by God's leave. Having said that, you will note that messengers were instructed to 'Say' that they do not know the future, theirs, or others. ) Just like when they were always asked when the day of judgement will be.. they all replied the same way.On the other hand, 'believing' that just any person can tell the future is erroneous, me thinks.
Peace
-
Peace be upon you all,
Oracles systems are not about telling the future, thats why I said earlier that I am not talking about fortune telling.
BUt it is a method of finding out which path one should take in a certain area of life. For example, there is a time to be gentile and a time to be stern (I can show verses if needed), how do we know WHEN to manifest which attribute? So the question is asked and the cards/shells/etc are thrown, does the God throw them or do we? Again, WHAT will happen is not being asked, only WHEN should we manifest a certain attribute.
SO I ask the question again, why was Zachariah not reprimanded for "casting lots", why is this verse part of the God's message?
also, if I see myself as a servant of the God and I ask the God a question why won't he answer me through them?
-
Peace idolfree.
Apologies. I may have misunderstood your question. Thanks for being patient bruv . Personally, I don't see any harm or prohibition of the use of oracles, but perhaps only as a last resort. For example, making a decision on whether to wear formal clothes to an interview or informal clothing, I myself would base this on prior knowledge and logic, but in choosing the colour of a tie, I would more easily turn to the 'casting of lots'. So I see no harm in the use of oracles, only that they should be used as a last resort. With regards to God doing the throwing, I think whether he throws them or not, the outcome is controlled by him, so to an extent we could trust an oracle system, but when it is used in conjunction with a request to God for his help, only that way can we be a little more certain that God is making the outcome of the casting of lots in our favour. Please correct me if I'm still misunderstanding wink .
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Then does 616 show that it is possible for someone to predict future events before their ocurence?
Only by God's leave. Having said that, you will note that messengers were instructed to 'Say' that they do not know the future, theirs, or others. ) Just like when they were always asked when the day of judgement will be.. they all replied the same way.On the other hand, 'believing' that just any person can tell the future is erroneous, me thinks.
Peace
I agree with zenje, I don't think Jesus was making a prediction, he was just stating a fact that had been inspired to him. Anybody can make a prediction, it doesn't mean their right though.
Peace.
Natu on the line. -
Peace be upon you Natu,
Apologies
NOt necessary D
. I may have misunderstood your question. Thanks for being patient bruv
Patience is a must for our "work" D
Personally, I don't see any harm or prohibition of the use of oracles, but perhaps only as a last resort. For example, making a decision on whether to wear formal clothes to an interview or informal clothing, I myself would base this on prior knowledge and logic, but in choosing the colour of a tie, I would more easily turn to the 'casting of lots'. So I see no harm in the use of oracles, only that they should be used as a last resort. With regards to God doing the throwing, I think whether he throws them or not, the outcome is controlled by him, so to an extent we could trust an oracle system, but when it is used in conjunction with a request to God for his help, only that way can we be a little more certain that God is making the outcome of the casting of lots in our favour. Please correct me if I'm still misunderstanding .
Well, its hard to correct you when I myself don't know the answer. D I am really just trying to cause some resistance to the discussion so we can grow. I am learning more and more about other cultures and how oracles were and are in exsistence. I am in the process of trying to verify one of them, but in the meantime, I want to discuss it as I go through this journey. While pondering this, it came to me that the mention of Oracles IS in this reading and WAS USED by Zachariah to see who would care for Mariam. Since I take no verse as meaningless, I have to dig further for the understanding.
Regarding your above statements, from what I am learning, one uses oracles UNTIL they develop thier NAFS properly and raise thierselves to the level(maqam) of prophecy(one who can intuit the God's will for man).
The reading states man is created weak, so while man is developing herself in this material world, she uses certain means to talk to the God, like this reading for example. Certainly, this prophet did not need the book called "Quran", the message was INTUITED from within.
-
Peace Zenje, Idolfree & Natu
On the other hand, 'believing' that just any person can tell the future is erroneous, me thinks.
I agree it is wishful thinking to assume that any person can predict the future.
However, I believe there is a way of knowing the future to a certain extent, as exemplified by Joseph's ability to interperit dreams (1241, 47).
I would like to go back to the discussion of Oracles (not fortune telling).
How does everyone understand the use of Oracles(casting lots) by Zachariah?
ALso, the God says "it is not YOU who threw but WE threw", so if we have a complete Orcale system, like those used in African and Asian (I ching) cultures, why can we not trust the THROWING of cards, cowry shells, ect?
Do we think the God does NOT throw and that it really is us?
I am interested to see the responses.
I understand that you are not asking about the future but rather guidance, but I believe this story can be of use. In the summer while in Saskatchewan visiting my mother I attended a s?ance (I believe it would be called that) with a group of retired ladies-who do this weekly meetup.
Basically everyone formed a circle and got relaxed, then the host, who was apparently able to tune into someone or something other than her self, led the group. As preperation before proceeding, she called in certain conciousnesses that were elevated.
From material that I have read which is channeled I have noticed that another person had a similar method, in which before channeling information they would raise their conciousness to what was called the ?christ conciousness?, that is a higher conscious as I understand. I see tarot cards, weije boards or the results of anything else (who throws) is based on the method we seek our information, is it selfish or selfless ? The outcome depends on the consciousness of the seeker, whether seeking guidance or the future.
That?s my understanding currently. Hope it helps.
An example of one of the reasons can be seen in his translation of 802...
I actually do not see the problem in this verse its self, but 235-6 is a better example of how Ali?s translation is far from perfect.
All I would say is that this man has a hell of an imagination, and the skill to get sheep following him. Lets just say he knows how to get his work published and make a lot of money out of it, just like freud.
I have never heared of this because I have not researched this man beyond his translation, yet was not translating this book even during the 1900's frowned about by traditionalists?
However having read his translation several times I do believe his intentions were good, his heart was in the right place but it still has the traditional islam gloss which can be seen through when one lets the reading explain the reading, God is not confined to words .
peace