33:59 "they would recognized" or "they will not be recognized" ?
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Which one is the correct translation of 3359?
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of those who acknowledge that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
or
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
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Salam.
The second is correct.
You need to ask the obvious question who is it that is doing the harming in 3359?
3360 tells us that the ‘hypocrites’ are the subject matter.
Obviously the instructions are meant to protect the believing women from the hypocrites.
To achieve this, they are told to blend in with society by lengthening their garments - so that they would not be recognized and harmed.
Believers don’t harm people.
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Salam Wakas,
The Arabic allows both meanings - which is why I always let context to be the judge for which meaning is more logical.
As an example, in 56 the Arabic allows for "wiping of the feet" or "washing of the feet" (if the verbs are strung together from the start). Both can be correct, however, I go with "wiping" as the subject has made the "head" separate from washing and then has joined the feet with the head.
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Salam.
The second is correct.
You need to ask the obvious question who is it that is doing the harming in 3359?
3360 tells us that the ‘hypocrites’ are the subject matter.
Obviously the instructions are meant to protect the believing women from the hypocrites.
To achieve this, they are told to blend in with society by lengthening their garments - so that they would not be recognized and harmed.
Believers don’t harm people.
Peace Layth,
How lengthening their garment can hide their identity so that the cant be recognized?
They can still be identified by their face. Or does lengthening also covers face covering?
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Peace Layth,
How lengthening their garment can hide their identity so that the cant be recognized?
They can still be identified by their face. Or does lengthening also covers face covering?
Because they're blending in by dressing in the Arab garbs around them (the shawl, the long robes, etc.). The Qur'an has freed women from cultural slavery and taught the believers that a woman may be about while dressed 'modestly' (covering private parts), A believing woman would stand out in such a society because she will follow what God has decreed - not what the customs decree.
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Because they're blending in by dressing in the Arab garbs around them (the shawl, the long robes, etc.). The Qur'an has freed women from cultural slavery and taught the believers that a woman may be about while dressed 'modestly' (covering private parts), A believing woman would stand out in such a society because she will follow what God has decreed - not what the customs decree.
Peace Layth,
To blend in we usually dont dress differently. We usually follow the custom. As per this logic non believing women were also wearing Arab grabs?
Sorry I cant still understand how wearing Arab grabs can hide their identity unless they are hiding their face. How can a believing woman can not be known if she stand out by wearing modest dress decreed by God? -
Which one is the correct translation of 3359?
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of those who acknowledge that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
or
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of those who acknowledge that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be less / adna recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
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Peace,
I’ll give an example to perhaps get the point across.
According to the Quran, a man covering his genitals is adhering to the law of God. However, if I were residing in Mecca at the time of the Prophet, and walking around in shorts, then I may as well be carrying a sign saying “I am a believer in the Quran”. This dress would get me killed by the rejectors.
Flip the story to a woman and you will see the point (a woman in a skirt or not wearing the Abaya/outer garment would be harassed in as she would be seen as someone outside their norms/values). This is true even today in modern Arabia - let alone at the time of Mohammed.
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Which one is the correct translation of 3359?
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of those who acknowledge that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
or
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
Personally i find the first one correct. Because if they are not recognised as the believing women then there would be potentially putting their life in danger. I
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Because they're blending in by dressing in the Arab garbs around them (the shawl, the long robes, etc.). The Qur'an has freed women from cultural slavery and taught the believers that a woman may be about while dressed 'modestly' (covering private parts), A believing woman would stand out in such a society because she will follow what God has decreed - not what the customs decree.
Arabic and practical point of view I believe first translation is quite befitting and apt...
Munafiq/Hypocrites are mentioned here and not Mushrik... note that... Hypocrites are considering themselves as Muslims and they hide their belief and they mingle with believers mostly when it comes acceptance of religion ... So they are part of Muslim community but in their hearts disease...
So... They know the believing Muslim families ... There is nothing special to recognize...
But point here is Recognize + Harming... That too by Hypocrites specifically ..
A daughter may travel with father.. If father is recognized then they know a believing woman is accompanied.. If travel with husband or brother etc if they recognize the men then they recognize the women as believing women.. So recognizing the identity is not an issue at all... Suppose, if the women travel alone.. If their face is not covered then they will be recognized even how much they lower the outer garments... God has not mentioned face cover here.. So.. Niqab is a guess work thinking that Arabs were wearing Niqab at that time.. So the believing women also commanded to practice it to safeguard i.e from harming.... That's super bizzare ..God makes rule to the tune of Hypocrites.. Never.
But if Niqab is the practice of Arabic women at that time, then no need instructions to lower the garment.. Simply saying wear your cultural dress is enough...But those who say second translation is meaningful, they should question to themselves, why Muslims should fear fellow Muslims(munafiq do pray in masjid) and change dress code...do anyone expect totally different dressing culture of Muslim and Munafiq.. Lol
If the rule/ authirity was in the hands of Mushrik, and if the mushrik women practice Niqab then one may say.. Yes better hide identity and be like mushrik women and safeguard selves.. But God won't make rules for the fear of anyone.. So that option is fragile..Further, why God told to lower the garments of women connecting hypocrites living around.. Hypocrites are good at concoct stories and twist chastity of believing women... By lowering their garments two benefits I observe..
1..Hypocrites may not attempt any sexual harassment or molestation since they are living as neighbors and seems in considerable numbers as per verses..2...And they may not have a chance to corrupt a character of believing women around.. Coz they already in society decently dressed for better than disbelieving women..
Note in my understanding of Quran, at the time of prophet I strongly believe that women were dressing much open exposing their zinath... Not Niqab.. Far from reality.. As per Quran, I feel women of Arabs were much exposed then and they were in Jaahliya in total ignorance ..
Based on all above I take the verse as conventionally translated ..
i.e.. They (women) will be recognized with respect and no one can physically or mentally harm mainly coz of entirely different dress culture to natural dress culture among women of Arabs...In addition to that I strongly feel that there is nothing wrong in taking Arabic in that way.. But for second option it looks like many things to be clarified.. For example why took Anna as "Not" instead of "That". What is the reason?
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Which one is the correct translation of 3359?
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of those who acknowledge that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would be recognized and not harmed. God is Forgiver, Compassionate.
or
3359 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they will not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
My natural instinct propels me to believe that this verse is only valid for certain period... i.e ..When Munafiq was neighbors of believers... If the believing women at that doesn't follow this particular instructions of God I don't think they disbelieved in God... It is purely an instruction for their safety not an order to abide by... If they follow that would most probably save them from harm if Munafiq and they would have been well recognized...
Strange way of addressing ..O Prophet.. Tell.. that could only be instructions... I didn't check other O Prophet Tell verses..
Does anyone think that if a believing womam of that not lowering her out cloth will end up as disbeliever rejecting God? I don't think so... It is an instruction... If a believing woman happen to go with ten strong men of believers why she should be afraid of harming by Munafiq ...is the recognition of Munafiq so important then.. No...
It is clearly an instruction not order but optional if they want to be recognized and if they feel they be safe and not harmed...
That's my take..I would like add one more thing to sum up..
Quran I categorize in to three..
1 ...God address all human being and Jin in general regardless of time..
2.... God explain the unknown matters for example history or His own creations etc..
3..... Only concerned with Prophet and his community... -
The explanation I heard and which made sense to me was that indeed God told him so, because the hypocrites and heartdiseased offended the believers while pretending that they did not know that they were such believers and that had they known they would no have offended them, so dress in such a way that after that they cannot pretend that they do not know.
Salaam -
peace huruf,
yes from context not about that they were wearing miniskirts rather the mischievous neighbors behaving as NYC construction workers pleading ignorance when confronted, hence tell the womenfolk to dress in a way so they are known thus if they do it again the believers have permission to oust them.3359 يعرفن recognized they (f/p) فلا so not يوذين pestered they (f/p)
5541 يعرف recognized المجرمون the criminals بسيمهم by marks theirs -
hence tell the womenfolk to dress in a way so they are known thus if they do it again the believers have permission to oust them.
3359 يعرفن recognized they (f/p) فلا so not يوذين pestered they (f/p)
5541 يعرف recognized المجرمون the criminals بسيمهم by marks theirsThis is my understanding also.
Discussed in the past also
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601171.msg341538#msg341538
