Is Hell forever or a very long time
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Peace
I know I've discussed this topic before.
If anybody knows the arabic for the word 'eternal', please do share if there are multiple meanings to the word. I've read some time ago that it can also mean 'a very long time'. So because of this, I was always of the opinion that perhaps hell isn't forever but I never knew for sure and still do not know for sure.
Recently, I was watching this video of brother Sam Gerrans. He's of the opinion that hell is eternal, period. It just brings to mind the Quranic verses such as
'Then, on that Day, not a soul will be wronged in the least, and ye shall but be repaid the meeds of your past Deeds'
Well if you will only be repaid for what you used to do, how can God punish someone for eternity for sins committed in a limited lifetime?'And We place the scales of justice for the Day of Resurrection, so no soul will be treated unjustly at all. And if there is the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it forth. And sufficient are We as accountant.'
On the other hand however, there are verses such as this
'And they said "The fire will never touch us except counted/numbered days/times." Say "Did you take at God a promise/contract, so God will not break His promise/contract, or are you saying on God what you do not know?" '
So it is quite confusing to me.
Plus, there's even an article on here someone wrote about hell being eternal
https//www.free-minds.org/hellfireBut whoever wrote the article is only a human being so their interpretation could be wrong.
Also in Islam I though we are supposed to use our common sense and logic. To me at least, I cannot say it is logical to punish someone for sins committed in a limited time. It just doesn't make sense. How can the Most Merciful be this unforgiving? It doesn't make sense.
Or does a person's soul get judged and not just their deeds? For example, if a soul is evil and never changes, then God will torment it forever? But even then, if that soul gets tortured even for 2 days in the most brutal way, wouldn't it eventually give up being evil because it just can't take the torture any longer?
Anyone with a lot of knowledge want to share their thoughts, interpretation and opinions?
Thanks
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Peace
I know I've discussed this topic before.
If anybody knows the arabic for the word 'eternal', please do share if there are multiple meanings to the word. I've read some time ago that it can also mean 'a very long time'. So because of this, I was always of the opinion that perhaps hell isn't forever but I never knew for sure and still do not know for sure.
Recently, I was watching this video of brother Sam Gerrans. He's of the opinion that hell is eternal, period. It just brings to mind the Quranic verses such as
'Then, on that Day, not a soul will be wronged in the least, and ye shall but be repaid the meeds of your past Deeds'
Well if you will only be repaid for what you used to do, how can God punish someone for eternity for sins committed in a limited lifetime?'And We place the scales of justice for the Day of Resurrection, so no soul will be treated unjustly at all. And if there is the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it forth. And sufficient are We as accountant.'
On the other hand however, there are verses such as this
'And they said "The fire will never touch us except counted/numbered days/times." Say "Did you take at God a promise/contract, so God will not break His promise/contract, or are you saying on God what you do not know?" '
So it is quite confusing to me.
Plus, there's even an article on here someone wrote about hell being eternal
https//www.free-minds.org/hellfireBut whoever wrote the article is only a human being so their interpretation could be wrong.
Also in Islam I though we are supposed to use our common sense and logic. To me at least, I cannot say it is logical to punish someone for sins committed in a limited time. It just doesn't make sense. How can the Most Merciful be this unforgiving? It doesn't make sense.
Or does a person's soul get judged and not just their deeds? For example, if a soul is evil and never changes, then God will torment it forever? But even then, if that soul gets tortured even for 2 days in the most brutal way, wouldn't it eventually give up being evil because it just can't take the torture any longer?
Anyone with a lot of knowledge want to share their thoughts, interpretation and opinions?
Thanks
Peace…
My understanding but let me support with verses…
Nothing can be Eternal (in a simple understanding; never ending to our knowledge) …
Is God Eternal? Does God has beginning and Ending? I was up to recent time thought or assumed that God has No beginning and No Ending.. Do you really get such a verse in Quran saying God has no beginning and No ending? For me I don’t get any such verse..
Coz God is 5703 “He is the First and the Last, the Outward and the Inward;
Why did God use He is the Awwal (First) and Akhir (Last)? What always bothered me is “why at certain point of time God created the Earth and Heaven and then settled in Arsh and commenced his Lordship”? What He was doing from no beginning? I may be erroneous to deduce so… but fair enough to ponder like that as well…
Does the verse 2255 state that God is ever living by definition or does it manifestly expound He doesn’t have beginning or Ending..? Does the Hayu Al Qayyum mean ‘The Ever Living and Everlasting”? For me it gives the meaning of Living and Standing(lasting)…
Crucial wording of No Beginning and No Ending, I couldn’t find… in case I missed..
So I take according to verse “5703 “He is the First and the Last …. ..” that God has a beginning (first) and Ending (last)… No one was before Him and no one will be after Him… That’s my take… How He began and how Ends is no way to know…So based on that let me turn to the question of Sara.. Is Hell Eternal? I presume it is not eternal coz nothing is eternal… Yes it is eternal as long as the heavens and earth last… The word Huldi in quran is basically meaning Eternal… Eternal in the sense that it last as long the system last…. If one lives on this current earth until the day of resurrection he can be called Eternal coz he lasted until the system (earth and heaven) lasted… best example is this verse 2134 “And We did not grant to any man before you (Mohamed) eternity ; so if you die - would they be eternal (huldi)?” God simply explained what is Huldi/Eternity.. it means until the system lasts…
Then God promised to create another Earth and Heavens… It has it’s lasting time(eternity) .. that is to say the Eternity (Period assigned for it).. Note the below verse..
1052 Then it will be said to those who had wronged, "Taste the punishment of eternity (Huldi); are you being recompensed except for what you used to earn?"
Even in the same verse your concerns are answered… how? “…are you being recompensed except for what you used to earn?" So.. punishment of eternity in hell is just according to what they did… As I explained earlier ETERNITY = Until the system last…
11107 They will dwell therein”(Hell) for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord wills. Verily, your Lord is the doer of what He wills.”
Note above verse… It has two factors… One factor is ETERNITY and other is LORD’s WILL…. Here eternity is as long as the Earth and Heaven last… We know roughly how long the current earth and heaven do last… at least History is documented for 5000 years…. So we can imagine the Earth and Heavens of hereafter will last for long time… Hell is within that newly created Earth…The other factor is Lord’s will…. We don’t know what God wills… So Hell may or may not be Huldi(eternal) for some if God willed otherwise… It doesn’t mean they will end up in Janna (Garden of paradise)… Their soul may be terminated…
This Hell and Janna will last as long as the earth and heaven last… that’s for sure… Coz nothing is eternal outside the system… So the earth and Heaven has their period that is perishable… But it doesn’t mean the people who were living in Hell and Heaven will die… It cannot be called death…. That’s the End of soul, coz soul is not eternal … That’s why the inhabitants of the janna called they won’t taste death except their first death (3758-59)…. Coz when the system perishes everything will perish… it cannot be called death… Death according to God is taking the soul out of the body.. that won’t happen when earth and heaven cannot endure anymore..Now God is Awwal and Akhir… at certain time those who were living before human and animal will also perish… Coz non is awwal and non is akhir but God… so once all perished, God is the Last… That’s 5703 He is the first and the last… nothing after that….
That’s my take..
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My answer is A very long time
Below is the verses of Al-Quran arranged in sequence to answer your question
537 They will want to exit Hell, but alas, they can never exit therefrom; their retribution is eternal.
11107 Eternally they abide therein, for as long as the heavens and the earth endure, in accordance with the will of your Lord. Your Lord is doer of whatever He wills.
7823 They stay in it for ages.
7826 A just requital.In addition
(1) I like to use "Al-Muzzammil Method" (https//al-muzzammil.com/relevance_miracle/19_based_calc.html) to see whether my interpretation is correct.
(2) As the arabic is written from right to left, therefore the sequence of verses should be in form of 78(2326), 11107 and 537.--> 78(23+26) 11107 537 = 78(49) 11107 537 = 41311110923 x 19
Position 3 (Principle or Rule clarified)
Level 9 (Misconceptions clarified)Thank you.
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Peace,
Heaven like hell is eternal and forever according to the reading
457 And those who believe and do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein eternally, in it they will have pure mates, and We will admit them to a vast shade.
2161 Surely, those who have disbelieved and then died as disbelievers; they will be cursed by God, and the angels, and all the people.
2162 They will abide therein, where the retribution will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.386 How can God guide a people who had rejected after believing, and had witnessed that the messenger was true, and the clear evidences had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
387 To these the punishment will be that the curse of God will be upon them and that of the angels and the people all together!
388 Abiding therein, the retribution will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.4167 Those who have rejected and turned away from the path of God, they have strayed a far straying.
4168 Those who have rejected and did wrong, God was not to forgive them, nor guide them to a path.
4169 Except to the path of Hell, they will abide therein eternally. For God this is very easy.Peace
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Peace,
Heaven like hell is eternal and forever according to the reading
457 And those who believe and do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein eternally, in it they will have pure mates, and We will admit them to a vast shade.
2161 Surely, those who have disbelieved and then died as disbelievers; they will be cursed by God, and the angels, and all the people.
2162 They will abide therein, where the retribution will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.386 How can God guide a people who had rejected after believing, and had witnessed that the messenger was true, and the clear evidences had come to them? God does not guide the wicked people.
387 To these the punishment will be that the curse of God will be upon them and that of the angels and the people all together!
388 Abiding therein, the retribution will not be lightened for them, nor will they be reprieved.4167 Those who have rejected and turned away from the path of God, they have strayed a far straying.
4168 Those who have rejected and did wrong, God was not to forgive them, nor guide them to a path.
4169 Except to the path of Hell, they will abide therein eternally. For God this is very easy.Peace
It is okay it is eternal... But what is your understanding according Quran the meaning of Eternal is?
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On the other hand however, there are verses such as this
'And they said "The fire will never touch us except counted/numbered days/times." Say "Did you take at God a promise/contract, so God will not break His promise/contract, or are you saying on God what you do not know?" '
So it is quite confusing to me.
So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say “This is from God,” so that they can purchase with it a cheap price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gained.
And they said “The Fire will not touch us except for a number of days.” Say “Have you taken a pledge with God? If so, then God will not break His pledge. Or do you say about God what you do not know?”The verse is about some people who wrote Kitab and say that the Book is from God in order to gain something (political power, money, status, etc). Those people basically say that even if they have to taste hell, it will be only temporary.
If we study sahih hadith books, that is exactly what they wrote in the book they claim from God. For example
Book 1 - Number 355
Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported Verily the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said Allah will admit into Paradise those deserving of Paradise, and He will admit whom He wishes out of His Mercy, and admit those condemned to hell into the Fire (of hell). He would then say See, he whom you find having as much faith in his heart as a grain of mustard, bring him out. They will then be brought out burned and turned to charcoal, and would be cast into the river of life, and they would sprout aj does a seed in the silt carried away by flood. Have you not seen that it comes out yellow (fresh) and intertwined?Volume 1 - Book 2 - Number 21
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri The Prophet said, "When the people of Paradise will enter Paradise and the people of hell will go to hell, Allah will order those who have had faith equal to the weight of a grain of mustard seed to be taken out from hell. So they will be taken out but (by then) they will be blackened (charred). Then they will be put in the river of Haya' (rain) or Hayat (life) (the Narrator is in doubt as to which is the right term), and they will revive like a grain that grows near the bank of a flood channel. Don't you see that it comes out yellow and twisted"What they wrote in sahih hadith books go even further as to exalt Muhammad above all other messengers by undermining some messengers.
Volume 9 - Book 93 - Number 601
Narrated Ma'bad bin Hilal Al'Anzi We, i.e., some people from Basra gathered and went to Anas bin Malik, and we went in company with Thabit Al-Bunnani so that he might ask him about the Hadith of Intercession on our behalf. Behold, Anas was in his palace, and our arrival coincided with his Duha prayer. We asked permission to enter and he admitted us while he was sitting on his bed. We said to Thabit, "Do not ask him about anything else first but the Hadith of Intercession." He said, "O Abu Hamza! There are your brethren from Basra coming to ask you about the Hadith of Intercession." Anas then said, "Muhammad talked to us saying, 'On the Day of Resurrection the people will surge with each other like waves, and then they will come to Adam and say, 'Please intercede for us with your Lord.' He will say, 'I am not fit for that but you'd better go to Abraham as he is the Khalil of the Beneficent.' They will go to Abraham and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Moses as he is the one to whom Allah spoke directly.' So they will go to Moses and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Jesus as he is a soul created by Allah and His Word.' (Be And it was) they will go to Jesus and he will say, 'I am not fit for that, but you'd better go to Muhammad.' They would come to me and I would say, 'I am for that.' Then I will ask for my Lord's permission, and it will be given, and then He will inspire me to praise Him with such praises as I do not know now. So I will praise Him with those praises and will fall down, prostrate before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for your will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' And then it will be said, 'Go and take out of hell (Fire) all those who have faith in their hearts, equal to the weight of a barley grain.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down (prostrate) before Him. Then it will be said, 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers! My followers!' It will be said, 'Go and take out of it all those who have faith in their hearts equal to the weight of a small ant or a mustard seed.' I will go and do so and return to praise Him with the same praises, and fall down in prostration before Him. It will be said, 'O, Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to, and ask, for you will be granted (your request); and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted.' I will say, 'O Lord, my followers!' Then He will say, 'Go and take out (all those) in whose hearts there is faith even to the lightest, lightest mustard seed. (Take them) out of the Fire.' I will go and do so."' When we left Anas, I said to some of my companions, "Let's pass by Al-Hasan who is hiding himself in the house of Abi Khalifa and request him to tell us what Anas bin Malik has told us." So we went to him and we greeted him and he admitted us. We said to him, "O Abu Said! We came to you from your brother Anas Bin Malik and he related to us a Hadith about the intercession the like of which I have never heard." He said, "What is that?" Then we told him of the Hadith and said, "He stopped at this point (of the Hadith)." He said, "What then?" We said, "He did not add anything to that." He said, Anas related the Hadith to me twenty years ago when he was a young fellow. I don't know whether he forgot or if he did not like to let you depend on what he might have said." We said, "O Abu Said ! Let us know that." He smiled and said, "Man was created hasty. I did not mention that, but that I wanted to inform you of it. Anas told me the same as he told you and said that the Prophet added, 'I then return for a fourth time and praise Him similarly and prostrate before Him me the same as he 'O Muhammad, raise your head and speak, for you will be listened to; and ask, for you will be granted (your request) and intercede, for your intercession will be accepted .' I will say, 'O Lord, allow me to intercede for whoever said, 'None has the right to be worshiped except Allah.' Then Allah will say, 'By my Power, and my Majesty, and by My Supremacy, and by My Greatness, I will take out of hell (Fire) whoever said 'None has the right to be worshipped except Allah.' ''Also in Islam I though we are supposed to use our common sense and logic. To me at least, I cannot say it is logical to punish someone for sins committed in a limited time. It just doesn't make sense. How can the Most Merciful be this unforgiving? It doesn't make sense.
If we use the same reasoning, then admitting someone eternally in paradise for good deeds in limited time cannot be said to be logical either, right?
God is both merciful and severe in punishment at the same time.
And they hasten towards you with evil before good, and the examples of those before them have already been given. And your Lord is with forgiveness towards the people for their transgression, and your Lord is severe in retribution.
Or does a person's soul get judged and not just their deeds? For example, if a soul is evil and never changes, then God will torment it forever? But even then, if that soul gets tortured even for 2 days in the most brutal way, wouldn't it eventually give up being evil because it just can't take the torture any longer?
And as for those who were wicked, their abode is the Fire. Every time they try to leave it, they will be put back in it, and it will be said to them “Taste the retribution of the Fire which you used to deny.”
As for those who have rejected, for them is the fire of Hell, where they do not terminate and die, nor is its retribution ever reduced for them. It is such that We requite every rejecter.
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It is okay it is eternal... But what is your understanding according Quran the meaning of Eternal is?
Certain occurrences of other words having the same root as khalideen alkhuld, the verb akhlada
Active principle / Verbal meaning of the root
Last indefinitely, perpetuate, keep for a long time, stop, stay, evolve perpetually, stay forever, perpetuate.Definitions of the word khuld eternity, immortality, perenniality, permanence, survival, indefectibility.
Alkuld The eternal / the perpetual
1052
Then it will be said to those who were wicked "Taste the everlasting / alkhuldi retribution. You are only recompensed for what you have earned!"20120
But the devil whispered to him, he said "O Adam, shall I lead you to the tree of immortality / alkhuldi and a kingdom which will not waste away?"2515
Say "Is that better or the garden of eternity / alkhuldi that the righteous have been promised?" It is their reward and destiny.3214
So taste the consequences of your forgetting this Day; for We have now forgotten you. And taste the eternal / alkhuldi retribution in return for what you used to do.4128
Such is the recompense for the enemies of God. The Fire shall be their eternal / alkhuldi abode, as a recompense for their discarding Our revelations.7176
And if We had wished, We could have raised him with it, but he stuck / akhlada to the earth and he followed his desire. His example is like the dog, if you scold him he pants, and if you leave him he pants; such is the example of the people who deny Our revelations. So narrate the stories, perhaps they will think.2134
And We did not grant to any mortal that came before you immortality / alkulda. If you are going to die, would they be immortal / alkhalidoona?The meanings of the verb Akhlada eternalize, perpetuate
1043
He thinks that his wealth will make him eternal / akhladahu.
1044
Never! He will be thrown into the Destroyer.
1045
And do you know what is the Destroyer?
1046
The kindled Fire of God.I chose the following meanings permanence, eternity, immortality, perpetuity, to last indefinitely, without interruption, neither relief nor rest for retribution.
Heaven and hell as well as reward or retribution are eternal.
Peace
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Peace…
My understanding but let me support with verses…
Nothing can be Eternal (in a simple understanding; never ending to our knowledge) …
Is God Eternal? Does God has beginning and Ending? I was up to recent time thought or assumed that God has No beginning and No Ending.. Do you really get such a verse in Quran saying God has no beginning and No ending? For me I don’t get any such verse..
Coz God is 5703 “He is the First and the Last, the Outward and the Inward;
Why did God use He is the Awwal (First) and Akhir (Last)? What always bothered me is “why at certain point of time God created the Earth and Heaven and then settled in Arsh and commenced his Lordship”? What He was doing from no beginning? I may be erroneous to deduce so… but fair enough to ponder like that as well…
Does the verse 2255 state that God is ever living by definition or does it manifestly expound He doesn’t have beginning or Ending..? Does the Hayu Al Qayyum mean ‘The Ever Living and Everlasting”? For me it gives the meaning of Living and Standing(lasting)…
Crucial wording of No Beginning and No Ending, I couldn’t find… in case I missed..
So I take according to verse “5703 “He is the First and the Last …. ..” that God has a beginning (first) and Ending (last)… No one was before Him and no one will be after Him… That’s my take… How He began and how Ends is no way to know…So based on that let me turn to the question of Sara.. Is Hell Eternal? I presume it is not eternal coz nothing is eternal… Yes it is eternal as long as the heavens and earth last… The word Huldi in quran is basically meaning Eternal… Eternal in the sense that it last as long the system last…. If one lives on this current earth until the day of resurrection he can be called Eternal coz he lasted until the system (earth and heaven) lasted… best example is this verse 2134 “And We did not grant to any man before you (Mohamed) eternity ; so if you die - would they be eternal (huldi)?” God simply explained what is Huldi/Eternity.. it means until the system lasts…
Then God promised to create another Earth and Heavens… It has it’s lasting time(eternity) .. that is to say the Eternity (Period assigned for it).. Note the below verse..
1052 Then it will be said to those who had wronged, "Taste the punishment of eternity (Huldi); are you being recompensed except for what you used to earn?"
Even in the same verse your concerns are answered… how? “…are you being recompensed except for what you used to earn?" So.. punishment of eternity in hell is just according to what they did… As I explained earlier ETERNITY = Until the system last…
11107 They will dwell therein”(Hell) for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as your Lord wills. Verily, your Lord is the doer of what He wills.”
Note above verse… It has two factors… One factor is ETERNITY and other is LORD’s WILL…. Here eternity is as long as the Earth and Heaven last… We know roughly how long the current earth and heaven do last… at least History is documented for 5000 years…. So we can imagine the Earth and Heavens of hereafter will last for long time… Hell is within that newly created Earth…The other factor is Lord’s will…. We don’t know what God wills… So Hell may or may not be Huldi(eternal) for some if God willed otherwise… It doesn’t mean they will end up in Janna (Garden of paradise)… Their soul may be terminated…
This Hell and Janna will last as long as the earth and heaven last… that’s for sure… Coz nothing is eternal outside the system… So the earth and Heaven has their period that is perishable… But it doesn’t mean the people who were living in Hell and Heaven will die… It cannot be called death…. That’s the End of soul, coz soul is not eternal … That’s why the inhabitants of the janna called they won’t taste death except their first death (3758-59)…. Coz when the system perishes everything will perish… it cannot be called death… Death according to God is taking the soul out of the body.. that won’t happen when earth and heaven cannot endure anymore..Now God is Awwal and Akhir… at certain time those who were living before human and animal will also perish… Coz non is awwal and non is akhir but God… so once all perished, God is the Last… That’s 5703 He is the first and the last… nothing after that….
That’s my take..
Did you go through my above reply...?
Yes... Sister Hourya..
We know Huldi means literally Eternal and Abada means Ever or forever..
But Sara's question and concern is that is this eternal has limit like a long time.. I hope that's her concern..
My response is Yes..
Let me explain this way with the below verse..2134 “And We did not grant to any man before you (Mohamed) eternity ; so if you die - would they be eternal (huldi)?
God definitely knows everyone dies and this earth and skies will be destroyed at its appointed time... But still God used the word eternal or rather immortal... We normally have life span.. Thats what Mohamed also experienced.. So definitely eternal or immortal is up to the day when this earth and skies are no more... God in my comprehensive understanding in this verse meant, all before you passed away and if you(mohamed) passes away would they live until the earth and skies perish... So as I explained Eternity has a span based on where the soul is placed...
Don't ever think that after recreation of another earth and skies that would last forever and ever and ever without end... Each God's creation has an end and beginning... Be it human or jinn or earth or heaven whatever He created has an end... Coz God is FIRST and God is LAST.. if you understand God is First and last and nothing before Him and nothing after Him then you can't expect Janna or Jahanna to be eternal... Everything will perish.. Everything will become nothing to be precise.. -
Did you go through my above reply...?
Yes... Sister Hourya..
We know Huldi means literally Eternal and Abada means Ever or forever..
But Sara's question and concern is that is this eternal has limit like a long time.. I hope that's her concern..
My response is Yes..
Let me explain this way with the below verse..2134 “And We did not grant to any man before you (Mohamed) eternity ; so if you die - would they be eternal (huldi)?
God definitely knows everyone dies and this earth and skies will be destroyed at its appointed time... But still God used the word eternal or rather immortal... We normally have life span.. Thats what Mohamed also experienced.. So definitely eternal or immortal is up to the day when this earth and skies are no more... God in my comprehensive understanding in this verse meant, all before you passed away and if you(mohamed) passes away would they live until the earth and skies perish... So as I explained Eternity has a span based on where the soul is placed...
Don't ever think that after recreation of another earth and skies that would last forever and ever and ever without end... Each God's creation has an end and beginning... Be it human or jinn or earth or heaven whatever He created has an end... Coz God is FIRST and God is LAST.. if you understand God is First and last and nothing before Him and nothing after Him then you can't expect Janna or Jahanna to be eternal... Everything will perish.. Everything will become nothing to be precise..Exactly brother
The answer is clear in the reading
11107 Abiding therein as long as the heavens and the earth exist, except for what your Lord wishes. Your Lord does as He pleases.Peace
