Most people will go to Hell
-
Peace
I was just thinking about people and society in general. Whether we like to admit it or not, things such as classism, racism, lack of compassion and xenophobia still exist and are quite common. A lot of racism is covert racism, only obvious in the attitudes of people since many people will not be completely openly racist. The same goes for classism. Such examples of current social problems along (with many more moral issues) with the lack of faith in God nor caring about what God our creator wants us humans to be like, is it any wonder most people are destined for Hell?
What do you you think when an average person tells you 'most people are good'? I personally would say most people are not criminals in the worldly sense however non-criminals can get away with all sorts of immorality i.e. racism, lack of empathy/ compassion and many more moral issues.
-
I think yes, the Society as a whole is perfect and thats God's creation and we cant blame it, Individuals react to their circumstances and have chance to choose between good and bad and I think Good and Bad are there in everything embedded. So our choice is there so close to us and we cant blame that we are not given the guidance and escape.
The rich can say I or my family worked hard to earn and i cannot give it to others closer by, the guided or learned can say I will not share what i know to help others who lack those etc... but the system or God's laws will take care of these, and knows who has done the best to his capacity. Ultimately we know that nothing we brought in to take to the end?
-
This is one of those topics that whatever view/opinion one gives it will not change the fact that it is only up to GOD Alone what He does with "souls" humans or otherwise.
This is also one of those topics that requires each individual to search deep within themselves to see if any sort of hypocrisy is in there.
Me as the "driver", never cause an accident. It is always someone else s fault. I am a "good driver".
I am the "good" guy is a false human wishful thinking,
Each individual needs help and a big effort to sort themselves first and foremost.
Aware or not aware we make the society. Are we individually that clean and good?So why not start with "Me" . THIS IS THE BIGGEST AND HADDEST BATTLE TO WIN.
Concentrating on this self struggle will occupy each individual and may save the society from the bad "Me" that make it up.
All we need to do is work on ourselves honestly and sincerely . Society can then stand upright if individuals within it are standing upright . HYPOCRISY AND SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE AND ALWAYS WILL BE THE CULPRITS.
GOD bless all those that reflect on themselves and try hard to stand upright.
Peace. -
The verse you are probably referring to, verse 6116, does not actually say "most people are destined for Hell". It says 'they will mislead you from God's path', which doesn't necessarily mean they're all going to Hell.
The verse after that, 6117, agrees with what good logic said above.
-
@Good Logic
I've experienced a lot of racism and classism in my life which many times has made me lose faith in humanity. I think as a mixed race person it's much more obvious for me to see because I tend to not fit in with either side of my races/ cultures. I know many mixed race people say the same thing whereas people who've always fit in with their own race may not experience it to the same extent since they fit in with many of the same race. I won't go into classism as it is self-explanatory. Many other things have happened such as being bullied for most of my life. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite as I also admit I am not perfect myself. I may be one of those many people who will enter hell as I too am a sinner. I hope not to go there however. I've been cheated out of money I worked hard for. I see more corruption than goodness in humans. I base this on my personal experience. Animals seem a lot more peaceful.
Even some psychologists say we live in a narcissistic epidemic. A world full of people who are selfish, entitled, lack empathy, lack compassion etc. Are they also hypocrites for pointing out the truth of the personalities of many people? Because the type of psychologists who say this tend to be the opposite of narcissists. I would not call them hypocrites. One of the reasons I asked this question was to see if other people have also realised this fact and if they could tell me more about it.
There are a lot of disbelievers out there who ask 'How can God place his own creatures in Hell?' 'How is He a merciful God?' Some even go on to say that God is apparently a bully, evil, worst than Hitler etc. Well the answer is not that God is corrupt, humans are corrupt. If we really were such good creatures as we pretend, God would have never created Hell as it would be unfair and also unreasonable.
-
The verse you are probably referring to, verse 6116, does not actually say "most people are destined for Hell". It says 'they will mislead you from God's path', which doesn't necessarily mean they're all going to Hell.
The verse after that, 6117, agrees with what good logic said above.
are you sure? Please explain further. The 2 sentences you mentioned are quite different i.e. not the same sentence at all.
And the verse you mentioned is
'And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah. They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.' 6116
This verse is irrelevant to the topic of if most people will go to Hell.
I based my question on verses such as
'And We have certainly created for Hell many of the jinn and mankind. They have hearts with which they do not understand, they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. Those are like livestock; rather, they are more astray. It is they who are the heedless.' 7179
' And if we had willed, We could have given every soul its guidance, but the word from Me will come into effect "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and people all together.' 3213
' Except whom your Lord has given mercy, and for that He created them. But the word of your Lord is to be fulfilled that, "I will surely fill Hell with jinn and men all together." ' 11119
-
are you sure? Please explain further. The 2 sentences you mentioned are quite different i.e. not the same sentence at all.
For example, traditional Sunnis may 'mislead from God's path' using Hadith, but it doesn't necessarily mean all Sunnis are destined for Hell. It depends on how they lived their lives. The same applies to non-Muslims according to 262 and 569.
-
For example, traditional Sunnis may 'mislead from God's path' using Hadith, but it doesn't necessarily mean all Sunnis are destined for Hell. It depends on how they lived their lives. The same applies to non-Muslims according to 262 and 569.
Wise words that honors you.
-
Peace Sarah.
I understand what you are saying.
It is clear that in this world we either belong to the side of GOD where all the "REAL" good/good things/justice/good feelings..exist.
Or we belong to the.side of "another god" where bad /bad things /injustice/bad feelings...and the "illusion"of the temporary good /good thing/...This is either heaven or hell on earth-depending on our experiences- and it does not last.
Those who realise the need to connect to GOD Alone and follow GOD Alone,this world does not benefit them or harm them. They have believed GOD and can see the balance of this world. They believe GOD s message and can be satisfied that this is true
"You have no power over My servants. You only have power over the strayers who follow you." i.e without GOD there is no other power. Nothing can harm in reality.
As long as we follow GOD,we should be clearly aware of the two paths(from GOD s message), the bad will not affect us deep inside. If it does it will be only temporary. All we have to do is follow the straight path.
The society that belongs to GOD will experience this
"We remove all jealousy from their hearts. Like one family..."
And of course we all fall into some kind of "sin" in our day to day life but there is this
"Inform My servants that I am the Forgiver, Most Merciful."In other words we should not despair of the Lord s mercy. The only ones who despair are the ones who do not believe in GOD or believe GOD.GOD is the most powerful-The only real power- and can look after us.
Of course we should heed GOD s warning. god is" FAIR AND JUST" . The two paths will lead to two different outcomes Here is the warning to those who choose the "bad/Taghut"" path
"And that My retribution is the most painful retribution."
Those who want GOD to only do good things/reward with good...etc will need to realise that GOD is also fair and just and keeps all HIS promises.GOD does not say one thing and does another. We need to choose right if we really believe GOD. GOD does things perfectly and for good reasons.Yes sister, society is bad under the "taghut" path but can be "good and happy" under the straight path.
Do we really believe GOD? Then the verses in context clearly say to us the following>
If we follow GOD and take the straight path and only take GOD as the authority/law/way of life/system...Then there is nothing to worry about or fear. GOD will help us against all "bad" in this society. All we have to do is mean it and do our vest to stay on this winner path.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I've experienced a lot of racism and classism in my life which many times has made me lose faith in humanity. I think as a mixed race person it's much more obvious for me to see because I tend to not fit in with either side of my races/ cultures. I know many mixed race people say the same thing whereas people who've always fit in with their own race may not experience it to the same extent since they fit in with many of the same race. I won't go into classism as it is self-explanatory. Many other things have happened such as being bullied for most of my life. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite as I also admit I am not perfect myself. I may be one of those many people who will enter hell as I too am a sinner. I hope not to go there however. I've been cheated out of money I worked hard for. I see more corruption than goodness in humans. I base this on my personal experience. Animals seem a lot more peaceful.
Try to seek on the WHY aspect of things, why they see, think, or conceptualize such idea or view.
And you can move from judging to understanding.White Supremacy, Black Supremacy, Jewish Supremacy, Religious Supremacy, Islam/Muslim Supremacy, Christian Supremacy, Holy book supremacy, Quran Supremacy, Bible Supremacy, Deity Supremacy, Party Supremacy, Communism Supremacy, Nationality Supremacy, Football Club Supremacy, US supremacy, I/ME supremacy does exist. Seek out then the WHY, what drove such behavior and view.
Good video on the probable cause of this attitude Putting things to a pedestal.
https//youtu.be/WLvgFNHIv8s?t=216After you learn the what and the why and gain understanding of it, ask again does it resonate well with you?
If not then try to seek out the opposite... because everything has it's opposite / contrast in this universe.
But if yes then feel free to play within the game of supremacy.. until you're bored or grew sick of it.,, thus also understand the WHY aspect and start seeking out the opposite.Bullying the bullies will also make you a bully... but.. by becoming a bully yourselves you will gain an insight and understanding about the why aspect of bullying. Since you have the answer and information that you need within yourselves, you just then need to ask the "Why Am I .... " question.
And once you gained the understanding yourself, you will then stepping out from judging... you will then understand and not judge.
Since you're not judging anyone then certainly you will not judge your own self as well...
Since you understand you will then be understood.
Law of reciprocality..Even some psychologists say we live in a narcissistic epidemic. A world full of people who are selfish, entitled, lack empathy, lack compassion etc. Are they also hypocrites for pointing out the truth of the personalities of many people? Because the type of psychologists who say this tend to be the opposite of narcissists. I would not call them hypocrites. One of the reasons I asked this question was to see if other people have also realised this fact and if they could tell me more about it.
People who are being labelled as psychologist has been a great help on the effort of the discovering on the WHY aspect.
And actually what is more revealing than a supremacist explaining to others on WHY he/she become supremacist, a narcist explaining to others on WHY he/she become a narcist?. Since they will tell things as experienced by themselves and not merely through observation of others.God would have never created Hell as it would be unfair and also unreasonable.
There will not be any hell unless there's something or somebody that wishes to experience it in the first place.
Through fear one will seek out courage.
Through hate one will seek out love.
Through pride one will seek out humility.
Through darkness one will seek out light.
Through others one will seek out the self.
Through separation one will seek out unity. -
For example, traditional Sunnis may 'mislead from God's path' using Hadith, but it doesn't necessarily mean all Sunnis are destined for Hell. It depends on how they lived their lives. The same applies to non-Muslims according to 262 and 569.
I agree with you here about some things. Even before writing my question, I did not believe every sunni or every jew, christian etc. would go to hell. It depends on their specific beliefs and how they lived their lives, if they're rejecters after information received, signs, warnings etc.
-
And once you gained the understanding yourself, you will then stepping out from judging... you will then understand and not judge.
Since you're not judging anyone then certainly you will not judge your own self as well...
Since you understand you will then be understood.
Law of reciprocality..We are taught judging others is wrong because we sometimes misjudge people. But I disagree to a certain extent. If a person is wise enough to know that you shouldn't be friends with just anybody for example, then you know that you have to judge them on their character and how they interact. You can't just be friends with everybody since some people will be unkind, users, abusive, even murderers etc.
I do believe we misjudge people though sometimes. i.e. we jump to conclusions on why person x did something. It is good to try and see it from their perspective. Sometimes we may mistake someone for being a bad person when they're not. We have to be better judges to avoid this as much as possible. However narcissists tend to become narcissists because of their childhood but this is no excuse to mistreat others because even though their childhood shaped their personalities, they KNOW and have a CHOICE in what they're doing when they're mistreating people.
I highly disagree with 'since you understand you will be understood'. Not with narcissists, sociopaths etc. A narcissist wants you to care for them but they will never care for you. Even if they do care, it's not true care since they would pretend to care or only care because they want narcissistic supply from you. This is why you have to judge/ figure out people to see if they are narcissists because if you get caught up with one, they can be highly abusive.
If you don't like the word 'judge' then you can call it discernment. The dictionary definition of discernment is 'the ability to judge well'. There is also a wise way of judging people and a toxic way of judging people. Here is another person who shares my views on judging and the video is titled 'Use Your Judgement Against Narcissists And Toxic Situations'
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISgN6xxDrcAlso, I do not think that sincere Qur'an alone believers, Christians, Jews, Non-believers are playing a game of supremacy if they're in the faith because they believe it's the truth from God instead of because of a need to be right and feed their ego. There is a difference between these two reasons for being a part of a faith.
-
I agree with you here about some things. Even before writing my question, I did not believe every sunni or every jew, christian etc. would go to hell. It depends on their specific beliefs and how they lived their lives, if they're rejecters after information received, signs, warnings etc.
God is not so shallow that He would punish people who, despite believing in God and doing good all their lives, simply didn't accept the Qur'an. Please see verse 2112 which also supports this.
-
We are taught judging others is wrong because we sometimes misjudge people. But I disagree to a certain extent. If a person is wise enough to know that you shouldn't be friends with just anybody for example, then you know that you have to judge them on their character and how they interact. You can't just be friends with everybody since some people will be unkind, users, abusive, even murderers etc.
I do believe we misjudge people though sometimes. i.e. we jump to conclusions on why person x did something. It is good to try and see it from their perspective. Sometimes we may mistake someone for being a bad person when they're not. We have to be better judges to avoid this as much as possible. However narcissists tend to become narcissists because of their childhood but this is no excuse to mistreat others because even though their childhood shaped their personalities, they KNOW and have a CHOICE in what they're doing when they're mistreating people.
I highly disagree with 'since you understand you will be understood'. Not with narcissists, sociopaths etc. A narcissist wants you to care for them but they will never care for you. Even if they do care, it's not true care since they would pretend to care or only care because they want narcissistic supply from you. This is why you have to judge/ figure out people to see if they are narcissists because if you get caught up with one, they can be highly abusive.
If you don't like the word 'judge' then you can call it discernment. The dictionary definition of discernment is 'the ability to judge well'. There is also a wise way of judging people and a toxic way of judging people. Here is another person who shares my views on judging and the video is titled 'Use Your Judgement Against Narcissists And Toxic Situations'
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PISgN6xxDrcAlso, I do not think that sincere Qur'an alone believers, Christians, Jews, Non-believers are playing a game of supremacy if they're in the faith because they believe it's the truth from God instead of because of a need to be right and feed their ego. There is a difference between these two reasons for being a part of a faith.
@Sara..
Well said within yourself blending personal experiences as well.. I hope I don't JUDGE you wrong here.. We need to judge.. Don't we?@jafar...
Judging is threshold of life.. Key to go forward.. Without judging you won't be able conclude anything... You sent me a personal message in the recent past requesting me to read and give my feedback.. So, what is your intention... We are to judge things meticulously in life... For that we need loads of patience, knowledge, impartial attitude, most of all giving priority to truth when it is truth.. But all these one has to personally judge.. God says who is better judge than Him.. So we are supposed to be judges.. Right..
In judging we may choose the right or wrong.. It doesn't matter... As long as your intention is right... No one need to teach to intend.. But if you feel at any point you chose wrong, there is always ways how to make it right.. Ask forgiveness.. Coz our intention was right... On serious matters rather than simple matters, always judge with double verification ... We are human and not perfect and vulnerable to mistakes unintentionally sometimes..Take the court system... Why the final decision is Judge's... Why he was presented loads of evidences and witnesses from both plaintiff and defendant... And he needs to study them... He is not the one to take one side... So.. In this manner, we are judges in life... So.. We need to be impartial... That can be done only with clean heart...
The one who doesn't judge things, in fact is fool in my understanding... Making a decision without judging is nonsensical... Such will worry in life for certain...Meanwhile, we don't need to judge whether most people will go to hell or Janna.. It is non of our business... Just having knowledge about it is enough.. There is nothing for us to judge and decide in this case.. If Creator Says so.. Let's hope He will accomplish what He says... But final decision is of the JUDGE the God..
-
Peace All.
We humans like to argue and push the blame towards GOD.
If we are arguing that GOD should only create "haven" or..., then why are we creating/releasing conditions of both haven and hell here on earth .
By our choices and conditions we ae subjecting others to a "hell" on earth.
This, in my opinion agrees with GOD s message in Qoran
Mark Nepo in "the book of awakening" writes
"The purpose of the human experience is for the Soul to blossom in human form here on earth, rather than finding Heaven on earth or elsewhere, we are asked to release Heaven by living on earth"
Ley me elaborate on this "haven" first ,then move to hell.
Reflect on these verses
"Whoever disbelieves, disbelieves to the detriment of his own soul, while those who lead a righteous life, do so to strengthen and develop their own souls.""God invites to the abode of peace, and guides whomever He wills(whoever wants to be guided/straight by his own choice first) in a straight path."
"...Do not keep on corrupting the earth. God does not love the corruptors."
"When an affliction/bad/.. befalls them, they say, "We belong to God, and to Him we are returning."
Why are we not reflecting properly on GOD s words? Is GOD not saying everything we do/project/live by affect us and the others around us?
So why are most of us creating/projecting "hell" on earth for others and question/blame GOD?
Is GOD inviting us to hell?
I would rephrase the title of this thread like this
All of us have an opportunity to release "HEAVEN" on earth by living our life on the straight path for us and give the example/encourage our community/clan/people to do the same. Then most people will not need to worry or even contemplate a "HELL".GOD ,IN HIS MESSAGE ,ONLY INVITES US TO THE ABODE OF PEACE/HEAVEN.
GOD wants us to do the same here on earth by example and hard work and perseverance to stay on the straight path.
Are we ourselves inviting to heaven or hell?
That is the most important question to ask.
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
@Good Logic
I've experienced a lot of racism and classism in my life which many times has made me lose faith in humanity. I think as a mixed race person it's much more obvious for me to see because I tend to not fit in with either side of my races/ cultures. I know many mixed race people say the same thing whereas people who've always fit in with their own race may not experience it to the same extent since they fit in with many of the same race. I won't go into classism as it is self-explanatory. Many other things have happened such as being bullied for most of my life. I don't think this makes me a hypocrite as I also admit I am not perfect myself. I may be one of those many people who will enter hell as I too am a sinner. I hope not to go there however. I've been cheated out of money I worked hard for. I see more corruption than goodness in humans. I base this on my personal experience. Animals seem a lot more peaceful.
Always remember my sister, for the believer your relationship in this life is with God.
What others say and think is irrelevant. God has given you the Deen, praise God!
Doesn't matter how you look, your ethnicity, or your class. You have been given the
best this world has to offer. Don't be sensitive to insults, those people who bully you
have more weaknesses and sensitivities than you! So don't take sh** off people give
it back to them.peace
-
We are taught judging others is wrong because we sometimes misjudge people. But I disagree to a certain extent. If a person is wise enough to know that you shouldn't be friends with just anybody for example, then you know that you have to judge them on their character and how they interact. You can't just be friends with everybody since some people will be unkind, users, abusive, even murderers etc.
Where did I say that judging is wrong??
What I said was move BEYOND judging to understanding.
When you met a growling lion you first need to judge / identify the situation.
Based on the situation you take appropriate action, fight / destabilize the lion so it is no longer a threat to you or flee / run for safety or cry for help or stand still? or climb a tree?Next try to UNDERSTAND WHY the lion is acting as such, maybe he's hungry? he feel threatened by your presence? or other reason?
Put your mind into the lion's point of view and try to understand him.
And of course it's better if you've been feeling the same emotion as felt by the lion, you will have all the required information / data to understand the lion's behavior within yourself.Afterwards do you then still think the lion is bad / evil?
I do believe we misjudge people though sometimes. i.e. we jump to conclusions on why person x did something. It is good to try and see it from their perspective. Sometimes we may mistake someone for being a bad person when they're not. We have to be better judges to avoid this as much as possible. However narcissists tend to become narcissists because of their childhood but this is no excuse to mistreat others because even though their childhood shaped their personalities, they KNOW and have a CHOICE in what they're doing when they're mistreating people.
Correct about the why aspect of narcissist... (or other form of supremacist for that matter)
or should I say 'past experiences' have shaped their personalities to become as such.
Additional questions to ponder- Have you had similar experience as experienced by them during your childhood?
2, When you have, have you made the better choice than them? and not the choice that they choose? - Perhaps you did choose the same choice as them and then change that option to a 'better' choice. How did you do that? What makes you change the action?
- Share that to others...
Even thinking along those questions have made you understand better... and less judgemental...
I highly disagree with 'since you understand you will be understood'.
It's the law of reciprocity, what goes around comes around which gives birth to recommendation of treat others as you would like to be treated. My recommendation mentioned above shall make you put your mind and perspective into their shoes and can decide better on the proper treatment as you would like to be treated, because you have shift your perspective to 'them'.
Which one that you prefer others to do to you? Judging you? or understand you?
No right or wrong.. it's your own choice....Also, I do not think that sincere Qur'an alone believers, Christians, Jews, Non-believers are playing a game of supremacy if they're in the faith because they believe it's the truth from God instead of because of a need to be right and feed their ego. There is a difference between these two reasons for being a part of a faith.
You're right about mentioning the 'ego', because that's where it came from.
The difference is merely on the 'scale'... the context is the same.
The feeling of 'above others' is the food that the ego need and she never feel satisfied always hungry for more.
And also the consequences of putting something on the pedestal, as highlighted by Hans Wilhelm on the video that I've shared to you earlier.My recommended action on series of questioning above, shall temporarily shift 'you' from your own ego and try to understand the 'other's ego.
Next of course is try to meet your own ego and try to disassociate / dis-identify yourself from her.
But it's more difficult than trying to understand other ego's perspective... thus first thing first.. the above set of questioning is easier but a good exercise before meeting your own ego which means facing your own fear, facing your own hatred, facing your own sadness.. - Have you had similar experience as experienced by them during your childhood?
-
Peace
I thought maybe I got the wrong impression about most people going to hell but from reading the Qur'an, verses such as these are common
', until when Our command came and the oven overflowed, We said, "Load upon the ship of each two mates and your family, except those about whom the word has preceded, and whoever has believed." But none had believed with him, except a few.' (1140)
Also, if I remember correctly, I think the Qur'anic translation I read literally stated that most will enter hell. However I am not sure. I guess I'll have to double check it. It would actually be great if most do not enter hell even if 'a lot' of people will.