Uh-huh the timeline is not matching

Sania_Haque

Hi again,

I was reading Quran ( surah Mariam to be specific ) and I came across this verse

" O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an indecent man, nor was your mother unchaste.” ( 1928 )

How can Aaron be Mary's brother?! So now according to Quran, Moses was Jesus's uncle ?

Also, we have seen Injeel getting mentioned repeatedly in the Quran, what exactly is Injeel ? Is it gospel ? How can it be gospel when gospel wasn't even written by Jesus? If it's not gospel then what is it exactly ? There's something that is not adding up here.

tutti_frutti

salam sania haque

i do not know the answers to your inquiry but i could The God willing share my thoughts which my be wrong

the aaron mention in mary sister of aaron could be another aaron ... why would we necessarily think it is the same aaron as moses’ brother? (maybe they are though i dont know)

maybe it is a test as people who disbelieve will think it is the same aaron and increase in their disbelief whilst believers who believe in The God will ponder and perhaps understand it could be another aaron ... or maybe The God will explain the answer to them ... and the believers also know that The God knows best and everything in the Quran is truth

regarding the Injeel, perhaps it constitutes part of the tanakh alongside the Torah ... why?

well we know Injeel was sent to to the children of israel
tanakh includes information about messengers that came after moses and narratives that happened after moses so perhaps whatever narrative is mentioned in tanakh that is before or during moses time is Torah and whatever is mentioned after (example narratives about solomon or david) would consitute the Injeel
however, for example the last supper is mentioned in the new testament and corrected in the Quran ... so maybe narratives after moses were not in Torah or Injeel but rather scribes who passed down what they witnessed (changing it as time passed by) .. and Injeel we could perhaps think corrected the alterations and then it was kept hidden (and not included in tanakh) ie stories after moses were witnesses who passed down the narratives

to sum it up lol maybe

tanakh =Torah (accounts before moses (that could include noah and abraham) and during moses time) + Injeel (accounts after moses and during jesus time)

or

tanakh = Torah + witnesses of narratives after moses that were altered

however
... sometimes i think Injeel is the gospel as they are today but changed from the original Injeel or the original gospel was hidden and replaced by the current gospels by the church ... and also that the aaron may be the aaron brother of moses

i still am not sure what i truly believe as being the answer to your inquiry )

and i confuse myself haha

and of course i might very well be wrong all along the line )

peace

shukri

Hi again,

I was reading Quran ( surah Mariam to be specific ) and I came across this verse

" O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an indecent man, nor was your mother unchaste.” ( 1928 )

How can Aaron be Mary's brother?! So now according to Quran, Moses was Jesus's uncle ?

My understanding
The quran just quote what the people of that community said to Mary. At that time the jews usually called their fellows by the'nickname' of their great great (Prominent) grandfather. You can see the same thing happened to Jesus in the bible

And he cried out, saying, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!" (Luke 183
Is it Jesus really the son of David?

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham (Matt 11)
Is it Jesus really the son of David, the Son of Abraham?

Note
According to the writer of Luke, Mary was a relative of Elizabeth, wife of the priest Zechariah of the priestly division of Abijah, who was herself part of the lineage of Aaron and so of the tribe of Levi (Luke 15, 136)
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_mother_of_Jesus

huruf

Just one Harun in the Qur'an. In the Qur'an, which is what we are talking about and supposedly the book we believe in, nobody is called by such names for ceremony as the one attributed to this calling "sister of Harun". If there is another one, please, point it out. What the Jews supposedly did or did not does not oblige the Qur'an. So any proof for what is meant in the Qur'an should be picked from Qur'an, otherwise it is hadith, not Qur'an.

Salaam

seekingtruth1111

Hi again,

I was reading Quran ( surah Mariam to be specific ) and I came across this verse

" O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an indecent man, nor was your mother unchaste.” ( 1928 )

How can Aaron be Mary's brother?! So now according to Quran, Moses was Jesus's uncle ?

Also, we have seen Injeel getting mentioned repeatedly in the Quran, what exactly is Injeel ? Is it gospel ? How can it be gospel when gospel wasn't even written by Jesus? If it's not gospel then what is it exactly ? There's something that is not adding up here.

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599509.0

good_logic

Let us assume that Mary was the sister of Aaron the brother of Moses?
Let us now do a history check with the people mentioned in Qoran and place them in order of who came first and who followed who...etc.
This by the way can only be done of the records we have recorded with us and comparing . It cannot be done any other way.

So let us put in order of time these historical figures?
Saul, David, Meriam ,Zachariah, Solomon , Moses, Joshua ,AAaron, Jesus?
Here is the overwhelming view of the records we have
Moses,Aaron Joshua, then Saul,David ,then Solomon, Then Zachariah,Mary then Jesus.

Let us now do some rough work of years between these generations.
At least one or two centuries between Moses ,Aaron ,Joshua and Saul ,David and Solomon. Then The original temple gets destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, then built at the time of Ezra when the Jews came back from Persia under Darius and at least another one or two centuries before Zachariah and Mary were living under the rule of the Romans.
So how can Mary been the actual sister of Moses and Aaron when she was alive at least many centuries after they were non existent?

All it remains to be said in this case is bring your evidence that Jesus came way before David and Solomon?

In the case of Qoran saying "O sister of Aaron", this is no more than a lineage expression of belonging to the order of the first priest of Israel s lineage and beliefs (devotion to GOD). Like Aal Ibrahim and Aal Imran. selection of prophets and devotees to GOD.

Qoran always clarifies ,for example when Moses uses " my brother Aaron" , it clarifies in another verse that it means the son of my mother. "O son of my mother ,do not get hold of my hair..." Aaron s speech to Moses else where in Qoran..
My take.
GOD bless.
Peace.

shukri

By using Al-Muzzammil method
https//al-muzzammil.com/relevance_miracle/19_based_calc.html

1928 "O sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, and your mother was never unchaste!"
485 ... gv for "nickname" كنية
--> (485) + (19+2 = 532 = 28 x 19
Position 8 (Issues)
Level 3 (Include Missing Information)
(Indication The "nickname" is part and parcel of verse 1928 ... Therefore the phrase "O sister of Aaron" in verse 1928 is just a nickname used by Jews community at that time)

Note A nickname is a substitute for the proper name of a familiar person, place or thing. Commonly used to express affection, it is a form of endearment and amusement. It can also be used to express defamation of character, particularly by school bullies.

shukri

Bro huruf,

If you have any opinion regarding the phrase "sister of Aaron" in verse 1928, please share with us!

amin

Theirs no Mary the mother of Jesus in Judaism, but its the Christian belief, and Islam the later religion accepted everyone as prophets the blessed ones.

These all Characters represent some older pagan Gods, each having multiple stories within multiple cultures, later they get assimilated into modern one, with the current story/version geting predominance over others with time. We can see many such parallels in Indian religions too with gods taking multiple avatars in multiple births, that is linking all to a single entity.

Mary should be a mother Goddess and Virgin Motherhood is the best way to represent creation and all that aids it. Aaron should be another.

"Mary the sister of Aaron" could be as per the rank they get within those ancient people's belief.

Layth

Peace,

I was reading Quran ( surah Mariam to be specific ) and I came across this verse

" O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an indecent man, nor was your mother unchaste.” ( 1928 )

How can Aaron be Mary's brother?! So now according to Quran, Moses was Jesus's uncle ?

The Qur'an, depending on context, can use the term "brother/sister" to denote a relationship arising from circumstances and not necessarily genetic. Here you see the people of Lot being called "Lot's BROTHERS"

5013 And 'Aad, and Pharaoh, and the brothers of Lot

Also here again

26160 The people of Lot denied the messengers.
26161 For their brother Lot said to them "Will you not be righteous?"

Myriam came with the act of carrying a new born (Jesus). The people around her knew she was chaste and reminder her of her similarity to Aaron and how this could have heppened.
.

shukri

Bro Layth,

Could you help me for a second!
I do not know arabic and have to translate this frase. Is it correct or not?
Maryam is not real Aaron's sister --> مريم ليست أخت هارون الحقيقية (Google translate)
Thanks in advance!

Layth

Salam Shukri.

Its correct linguistically, but I would use "literally" instead of "real."

مريم ليست أخت هارون فعليا

shukri

Salam Shukri.

Its correct linguistically, but I would use "literally" instead of "real."

مريم ليست أخت هارون فعليا

Thank you.
Salam!

shukri

And now I give a complete code.

From Reply #6, my previous code was
1928 "O sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, and your mother was never unchaste!"
485 ... gv for "nickname" كنية
--> (485) + (19+2 = 532 = 28 x 19
Position 8 (Issues)
Level 3 (Include Missing Information)
(Indication The "nickname" is part and parcel of verse 1928 ... Therefore the phrase "O sister of Aaron" in verse 1928 is just a nickname used by Jews community at that time)

New code (I add gv for "Maryam is not literally Aaron's sister" in timeline)
1928 "O sister of Aaron, your father was not a wicked man, and your mother was never unchaste!"
290 500 1001 262 191... gv for "Maryam is not literally Aaron's sister" مريم ليست أخت هارون فعليا
485 ... gv for "nickname" كنية
--> (485) (2905001001262191) (192 = 2554160526842769574312 x 19
Position 2 (Command used in various situations)
Level 9 (Misconceptions clarified)
(Indication The phrase "O sister of Aaron" in verse 1928 does not mean that Maryam is literally Aaron's sister ... It's just a nickname used by Jews community)

752 And We have come to them with a Book which We have detailed with knowledge; a guidance and a mercy to those who believe.

Thank you.
So long!

jkhan

i do not know the answers to your inquiry but i could The God willing share my thoughts which my be wrong

the aaron mention in mary sister of aaron could be another aaron ... why would we necessarily think it is the same aaron as moses’ brother? (maybe they are though i dont know)

maybe it is a test as people who disbelieve will think it is the same aaron and increase in their disbelief whilst believers who believe in The God will ponder and perhaps understand it could be another aaron ... or maybe The God will explain the answer to them ... and the believers also know that The God knows best and everything in the Quran is truth

regarding the Injeel, perhaps it constitutes part of the tanakh alongside the Torah ... why?

well we know Injeel was sent to to the children of israel
tanakh includes information about messengers that came after moses and narratives that happened after moses so perhaps whatever narrative is mentioned in tanakh that is before or during moses time is Torah and whatever is mentioned after (example narratives about solomon or david) would consitute the Injeel
however, for example the last supper is mentioned in the new testament and corrected in the Quran ... so maybe narratives after moses were not in Torah or Injeel but rather scribes who passed down what they witnessed (changing it as time passed by) .. and Injeel we could perhaps think corrected the alterations and then it was kept hidden (and not included in tanakh) ie stories after moses were witnesses who passed down the narratives

to sum it up lol maybe

tanakh =Torah (accounts before moses (that could include noah and abraham) and during moses time) + Injeel (accounts after moses and during jesus time)

or

tanakh = Torah + witnesses of narratives after moses that were altered

however
... sometimes i think Injeel is the gospel as they are today but changed from the original Injeel or the original gospel was hidden and replaced by the current gospels by the church ... and also that the aaron may be the aaron brother of moses

i still am not sure what i truly believe as being the answer to your inquiry )

and i confuse myself haha

and of course i might very well be wrong all along the line )

peace

It won't make any difference to our salvation by knowing exactly when Harun and Musa and Mariam and Isa lived..
But if possible tracing their existence and the period they existed, it is worthy... But pretty tough...
But to the concern of Harun(brother of Musa)being Mariam's brother, we may explore within Quran..

let's figure out simple facts within Quran...
Musa's and Harun's mother is mentioned in Quran but not father... But Mariam's mother and father mentioned.. Musa had an elder sister most probably nearly 10+ years or so when musa was a baby.. Coz she was good enough to follow along the river and go and advise on her own to king pharoa family regarding breastfeeding.
So.. In my rough conviction she had had to be at least 10+ years old... Was that Mary? If we are to take Harun as Mary's own brother either that girl was his sister or Mary was another sister...
Pharou was killing at the time of musa was a baby, all boys sparing girls... But Harun was not put in a box.. but only musa.. Either Harun was considerably elder to Musa and his elder sister or Harun is much younger to Musa hoping at the time of Harun's birth the agony of slaughtering boys is ceased or not practiced ... If Harun was elder brother, why Musa's mother didn't send him to trace Musa's box instead of sister? ... Probably sending boys may not be a good option or Harun was not born.. But Harun being much elder to Musa makes sense for me.. Point to note here is Mary's mother pledged to God what was in her womb for God's service.. If Musa and Harun were her other children it is much unlikely since she has already two sons...

If the elder sister of Musa was Mary, that gives few concerns.. Coz Maryam from her tender age was under the custody of aged Zakaria.. For that he was chosen in the society by casting pen... But in Musa's story, Musa's elder sister was living with her mother in almost identical age... Why Zakaria needs to take the custody of Musa's Elder sister while her mother is still young having a newborn baby... Who is zakaria to take care of Musa's sister when mother is alive.. That's far from reality... Zakaria in his old age definitely would have taken custody of Mary coz both patents were not alive... Note 1928.. When Mary returned people's said.. Your father WAS not.. Your mother WAS not... that indicates they were not alive...
Further when Mary was little girl probably under ten, Prophet Zakaria prayed for his own child... And that came true and he was Yahya.. So.. Yahya was much younger to Mary thus Yahya and Musa becomes same age group.. ... Further, probably even before Yahya and Musa became a prophet, Mariam would have conceived Isa.. Just probable speculation.. God knows... So Yahya and Musa and Isa would have been contemporary not by age but in prophethood...
When Isa said that there is Warner to come after him it seems at that time of the statement No prophet except Isa... .

Big question arise here... Musa grew up young and strong.. If Mary was Musa's elder sister Mary also would have reached mid 30s when Musa was a strong man.. And musa escaped and lived a family life away almost 10 years... So if Mary was his elder sister then she goes another 10 years older.. During this Period musa started receiving messages from GOd.. Became a prophet.. And is anyone here to say Isa is born and growing as young man while Musa started receiving messages.. Musa and Isa cannot live at the same period.. Simply coz God taught Torah to Isa and apart from that gave Injeel to Isa.. Injeel was delivered to confirm Torah.. God doesn't need to send Injeel even before Torah is complete... Torah got completed even after many other israelte prophets...

Based on above, harun, brother of Musa cannot be brother of Maryam and thus uncle of Isa...

Harun here is clearly Maryam's brother ...
Imran's family is higher than many.. So brother of Mary could have been much decent person, so they called her as sister of Harun...

Musa, harun and their sister has no connection with Imran's family.... That's so obvious..

Jafar

Hi again,

I was reading Quran ( surah Mariam to be specific ) and I came across this verse

" O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an indecent man, nor was your mother unchaste.” ( 1928 )

How can Aaron be Mary's brother?! So now according to Quran, Moses was Jesus's uncle ?

Aaron was a reference to a clan / group within Israelite society at that time.
"Sister of Aaron" is an expression of reminder that the person (in this case Mary) is a 'sister' (a girl) within 'aaronites' family. Aaronites class is the 'priestly class' within the Israelites society at that time.
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohen

That's why it continues with reference to her father and mother as well.
You belong to a priestly class, your dad is a priest and your mom is the wife of a priest. How can you do such a thing?

Neptin

Aaron was a reference to a clan / group within Israelite society at that time.
"Sister of Aaron" is an expression of reminder that the person (in this case Mary) is a 'sister' (a girl) within 'aaronites' family. Aaronites class is the 'priestly class' within the Israelites society at that time.
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohen

That's why it continues with reference to her father and mother as well.
You belong to a priestly class, your dad is a priest and your mom is the wife of a priest. How can you do such a thing?

The problem with this interpretation becomes apparent when you read 335-45. I paraphrase;

(Remember) when the wife of 'Imran said My Lord! I have vowed unto Thee that which is in my belly as a consecrated (offering).
And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge for her in You and her descendants from Satan, the expelled.
(And remember) when the angels said O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary

Aclon

i don't think you should draw conclusion that aaron in different time was mary's brother. what i do think that god means is that since the jews have their own clan name, the god mention that mary is that of aaron clan(levi tribe) and the "sister" term meaning that they both are related.

TellMeTheTruth

Hi again,

I was reading Quran ( surah Mariam to be specific ) and I came across this verse

" O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an indecent man, nor was your mother unchaste.” ( 1928 )

How can Aaron be Mary's brother?! So now according to Quran, Moses was Jesus's uncle ?

Also, we have seen Injeel getting mentioned repeatedly in the Quran, what exactly is Injeel ? Is it gospel ? How can it be gospel when gospel wasn't even written by Jesus? If it's not gospel then what is it exactly ? There's something that is not adding up here.

Salam!
The word اخت (ukhta) does not mean sister. It should have been ukhte or ukhtu. It actually means counterpart/mate here.
Peace!

jkhan

Hi again,

I was reading Quran ( surah Mariam to be specific ) and I came across this verse

" O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an indecent man, nor was your mother unchaste.” ( 1928 )

How can Aaron be Mary's brother?! So now according to Quran, Moses was Jesus's uncle ?

Also, we have seen Injeel getting mentioned repeatedly in the Quran, what exactly is Injeel ? Is it gospel ? How can it be gospel when gospel wasn't even written by Jesus? If it's not gospel then what is it exactly ? There's something that is not adding up here.

Peace everyone....

I am still concerned about Harun (brother of Musa) and Maryam being siblings..
In fact I deduced that Harun may not possibly be her brother... But not thoroughly convinced..

But while I was reading this verse in chapter 1906 Sahih International "Who will inherit me and inherit from the family of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, pleasing ." I feel Yakub the grandson of Ibrahim is father of Zakaria... If that is correct then Harun being the sister of Maryam is also possible..

In that case time period between Musa and Isa is not that much like history states..

What is your view...

Addition... If not son at least Zakaria could be grandson of Yakub.. Not more than that...