Intelligent sunni Muslims
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What is intelligence?
Real intelligence is to start to see things from the heart not the "brain".
To me, intelligence of the ego is foolishness.
Abraham used his GOD given intelligence to search for his creator and submit to HIM.We cannot possibly know who is intelligent and who is not by GOD s definition and knowledge.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace,
Because understanding the Quran has nothing to do with intelligence, but everything to do with purity of heart & mind from polytheism.
“None can grasp it but the pure” (5679)
I agree
Sister Sarah don't conflate cultural devotion with intelligence.
peace
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In a video where this guy asks him why the prophet married an 8 year old he was like "first of all she was 9." Smh like it makes a difference. And then went on about how the Quran doesnt prohibit child marriage etc. People like him always trying to make Quran look bad when defending their hadiths.
He may appear smart to people in this life but most of his knowledge is falsehood. Most follow falsehood so they consider what he says smart. -
salam
i would like to please share my understanding about 5679
the word as per my understanding is “touch” and not “grasp/understand” ...
i understand that the verse is a commandment that non should touch the Book except the clean/purified as per wudu (56)
so personally, i do not touch the Quran or read from it unless i do wudu as per 56
peace
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Peace.
Quote from brother tf
"so personally, i do not touch the Quran or read from it unless i do wudu as per 56"56 has nothing to do with touching Qoran. Its subject is "the salat".
What you say is not from Qoran,it is hadith based.I agree with the explanation of Layth.. The pure in heart will have access to it.
Coming back to intelligence, if it has to do with winning argument to mislead people, then Iblees is the most intelligent of creatures.
Iblees managed to mislead Adam to change from the perfect position of existence in GOD s kingdom into the worse existence to live here on earth.
Iblees used his intelligence and won the argument. So what is the big deal about being intelligent from our prospective?
GOD bless you all.
Peace. -
salam good logic
it is not “hadith based”
i am translating the word literaly as i understand it
i understand the word means “touch” so that is exactly how i will understand it The God willing
and i will not risk it just to be “different” and start intepreting where there is no need to
(the way i read the Quran is that i take the Book literally and do not interpret)unless my arabic is bad ... i think the word means “touch” ... so why not understand it as “touch”?? why intepret?? touch means touch
and “clean” i believe means wudu as we are told to do wudu before “salat” ... and i think “salat” is physical prayer and reading/studying the Quran from sunset all the way to dawn + a middle prayer on day of gathering
what do we do in “salat”? i believe in salat we engage in prostration and sujud to pray and implore for help, forgiveness, ... and to glorify The Creator and we also read from the Quran ...
so by deduction (not interpretation) i believe “clean” means wuduso i do wudu before i touch or read from the Quran
peace
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Peace
Thanks for the answers.
@Layth, I guess those who seek purity and truth tend to find it. Great point.
@Good logic, You make a good point on the definition of intelligence especially in the eyes of God. There are different types of intelligence and I was referring to book smarts.
@Hawk, it's not his 'cultural devotion' which makes him intelligent, it's his book smarts. He knows all these various facts which he brings up in arguments. He mentions so many books he's read, can quote from the top of his head, he's articulate, his terminology is expansive and he's great at arguing with atheists. He also seems to have a good amount of interpersonal skills since he's much more pleasant to watch and listen to in terms of his behaviour than some of the other Sunni Muslims at Speaker's Corner. That's why I wonder why someone like him can't see through hadith.
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@Amra, obviously child marriage is disgusting and wrong. That's part of hadith anyway remember so I wonder why he doesn't use his common sense. Perhaps it's the fear he'll go to hell if he doesn't believe in it. I bet he wouldn't have tried to justify it using the Qur'an if he didn't believe in hadith since he obv interprets it through the 'hadith filter'.
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Peace!
I believe the answer to your question has to do with "sophistry" or that Brand Islam (and indeed all religions) are Sophistic - meaning that they APPEAR to be correct even though they are incorrect.
For a believer who practices a set system and then gains various benefits from practising such a system, they believe the system they are following is the correct one because it is confirmed to them by the results that they themselves and others around them are getting from practising that system.
The problem is that the whole system they are practising actually is NOT correct - but the parts that are correct serve to blind them from the parts that are incorrect.
I believe this is why the Qur'an warns us about people dividing into sects AFTER the revelations have come to them. I also believe this is why the God says in the Qur'an that it doesn't matter if you are Jew or Sabien, what matters is that you honour your parents, are kind to orphans, you give charity to the traveller etc.
It's all morals and dogma's - the morals are what is important - the dogmas are often designed to try and build morals but they can often cause divides instead when people don't have an understanding of what's going on.
Let's face it Jews, Christians and Muslims essentially all preach the same message of peace, mercy, forgiveness, kindness etc. and yet at the same time the news is plagued with these groups attacking each other.
Furthermore particularly within Islam there is a lot of culture that has been mixed in with the religion - and Muslims are not ashamed to admit that certain practices are more of a cultural thing that an Islamic thing.
Man kind seems to make the same mistakes - and that's fine God alone will judge between them on what they disputed, what is important is for us as individuals to submit to God alone.
From what I can make out from my own research the entire Islamic history has been distorted if not completely fabricated. But what does it matter? We have the Qur'an. God knows who's who and what's what.
Muslims are guilty of the exact same mistakes of both the Jews and the Christians even though Muslims are very well aware of the mistakes of the other two religions. Muslims KNOW (or should do, it's in their scripture) that the Jews made the mistake of changing God's revelation and then completely abandoning it in favour of following "traditions of Moses" aka Talmud.
Muslims KNOW that the Christians have made a grave mistake in elevating Jesus to Godhood status and worshipping Jesus when he clearly never taught such a teaching.
And yet Muslims are guilty of doing both - they have abandoned the Qur'an in favour of Haddith and they have elevated Muhammad to be besides God.
Thus religions get people because they are SOPHISTIC. This is wisdom, Sophia, being able to discern the truth from the sophistry because the sophistry appears very much like the truth that it fools so many people.
When a non-religious person joins a religion they are swept off their feet by all the kindness from their new brothers and sisters. They begin to pray and receive the benefits that come with that - they begin to give to charity and they receive the benefits which come with that - all of these things serve to reinforce that the religion they have chosen is the correct one.
It is only through sincere study of text and BELIEVING THE TEXT rather that the pastor or mullah that one concludes the truth of the matter which is the correct way is submission to God, to not divide into sects with each being happy with what it has, disputing with the others.
God alone knows who the believers are and you will find them in many diverse religions up until they realise that no man made religion is correct - what is correct is what God teaches us in the scripture.
Hence religions can be both good things and bad things - whereas the revelations and teachings of God Almighty are never bad, only good.
I honestly believe this is the biggest deception the devil has ever pulled the trick of sophistry.
Peace,
kninjahman -
Peace,
Because understanding the Quran has nothing to do with intelligence, but everything to do with purity of heart & mind from polytheism.
“None can grasp it but the pure” (5679)
@Layth said in Intelligent sunni Muslims:
Peace,
Because understanding the Quran has nothing to do with intelligence, but everything to do with purity of heart & mind from polytheism.
“None can grasp it but the pure” (5679)
Peace Layth and everyone,
It is true that purity plays a crucial role in understanding the Qur'an. Moreover, history shows that the principle of purity is not only key to spiritual insight but also to countless aspects of human progress. This is undeniable. Purity is power and the engine of creativity and innovation.
Consider the following irrefutable truth: History reveals that the most innovative and creative individuals have often been guided by the principle of purity (whether in intellectual, faith-based, or artistic/creative works). Furthermore, it is clear that civilizations and communities that have upheld this principle have risen, while those that have abandoned it have faced decline or even collapsed.
The principle of purity, when fully embraced, has the potential to shape not just spiritual, moral, and material advancement among individuals, but the whole trajectory of civilizations themselves.
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Attachment to hadith is not necessarily a rejection of reason, nor does it deny their historical value, but it reflects a shift in authority that the Quran cautions against.
The Quran presents itself as the confirming and governing criterion over all claims to religious authority, rather than transferring normative authority to later transmitted reports (5:48). -
Peace Layth and everyone,
I'd like to share some additional thoughts and contemplations on the principle of purity.
As I understand the term mutahharuna (the purified) in verse 56:79, it reflects an inner state of purity. In other words, it reflects spiritual and moral purity. The term mutahharuna is derived from the root t-h-r, which conveys purification, cleansing, and purity. The root t-h-r signifies physical purification/cleansing. But more importantly it signifies an inner state of purification/cleansing (where the heart and soul/self are freed from wrongdoing/sin and moral impurity).
The various forms derived from the root t-h-r cover different types of physical purification, such as:
- Pure rainwater from the sky (see verse 25:48)
- Pure drinks given to the righteous in paradise (see verse 76:21)
- Purification of clothing (see verse 74:4)
- Purification of the body through ablution or bathing (see verse 5:6)
- Purification after menstruation (see verse 2:222)
- Purification of a sanctuary/temple by Abraham and Ismail (see verse 2:125)
The various forms derived from the root t-h-r signifies an inner purification, where the heart, soul/self are freed from sin and moral impurity, such as:
- The inner purity of Mary (see verse 3:42)
- The moral and spiritual purifying of a temple/sanctuary by Abraham and Ismail (see verse 2:125)
- The inner spiritual and moral purity of the heart (see verse 74:4)
- The inner purity of Lot and his family when they remained chaste (see verse 7:82)
- Allowing freedom of choice for divorced women as an act of inner purity (see verse 2:232)
- The act of inner purity regarding Lot's daughters being used as an example to the people of Lut (see verse 27:56)
- Being morally and spiritually pure by acting modestly towards Muhammad's household (see verse 33:33)
- Offering charity as an act of purity before consulting with Muhammad (see verse 5:6)
- The inner purification resulting from Salat and Zakat (see verse 33:33)
- The inner purity needed for understanding the Qur'an (see verse 3:55)
- The moral and spiritual purification of Isa (see verse 3:55)
- Spouses with inner purity given to righteous men and women in paradise (see verses 2:25, 3:15, 4:57 and 9:108)
- The purified content of the Qur'an recited by Muhammad (see verses 25:48 and 76:21)
- The righteous places of spiritual unity that people who love to purify themselves visit (see verse 9:108)
As noted earlier, the term mutahharuna (the purified) in verse 56:79, reflects an inner state of purity, specifically spiritual and moral purity. This inner state of purity embodies virtues such as chastity (iffa), truthfulness and honesty (sidq), sincerity (ikhlas), humility (khashu), righteousness (birr), piety (taqwa), trustworthiness (amana), patience and persistence (sabr), devotion (qanut), justice (adl), forbearance (hilm) and so on. In the Qur'an, purity encompasses all of these virtues and more. Therefore, mutahharuna (the purified) in verse 56:79 are those who reflect these virtues. Furthermore, the purified ones are only ones who can truly understand the Qur'an, as the quran confirms.
Just as only a pure, clean window, binocular lenses, or a telescope lens offers a clear, pure and unobstructed view, only those who are pure can truly grasp the pure revelations of the Qur'an. Similarly, just as an engineer (whether formally educated or self-taught) can truly understand engineering, or someone fluent in Korean can truly understand the Korean language, only those who are pure can truly understand the pure revelations in the Qur'an. Purity of heart and soul/self is the key to unlock the full meaning of the Qur'an, as the Qur'an teaches.
The principle of purity in the Qur'an appears to unfold in progressively deeper and more profound layers, each one beyond one's full comprehension and perhaps with a depth that is endless. This potentially endless depth invites the readers and students of Al-Quran to continue to contemplate the principle of purity, evolve in the process, and continually uncover new insights.
As a final note, purity and clarity are inseparable (they go hand in hand). Purity is ultimately for ones own benefit, and neglecting it leads to one's own loss.
