The moon was split
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Brother jkhan.
How can you even suggest that believers must be synchronised to your list of beliefs?In that case all believers need to have the same faculty.
GOD says He will show all of us the differences we had in this life . i.e each single person has their own distinct faculty and they are responsible for their own use of it.
The only common ground that can be the same- unites- for the believers is the right/straight path- the behaviour / character/way of life/works...
As for knowledge , intelligence, improvement of the mind/soul...these are stages and vary in people according to the time, place and generation. GOD also has a role that goes with the intention, commitment and effort of the individual .So where does the shape of the earth comes into growing the soul?
Where is the belief in the shape of the earth in GOD s criteria for being saved?
Reflect on the list you posted and clarify the things that are in the right path?Or do we want to repel those who seek GOD s way- the straight path- because of their belief of the shape of the earth?
Diversity of beliefs exist because of diversity/differences in faculties and knowledge among all people believers and non believers.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Why corrupt my take as if I said to align with my belief.. Did I say so..? Pls, don’t do that unless you do that unconsciously.. Did the Prophet follow one thing, and his people who concurred in the Divine followed another thing from the same Al Quran? They synchronized to the Divine path though their level of practices and achievement may differ.. fine.. Do synchronize to the Divine path bru not to me.... That’s so simple advice.. let’s jump to an analogy.. ‘come to work at 900 am’ .. how everyone is doing to reach the work is their choice, their own ways using their own faculties.. let them come by car or bicycle or walking or taxi, have breakfast and come or don’t take breakfast, have a bath and come or don’t or just wash faces. lol.. Get up at 5 in the morning or get up at 8 in the morning to get ready to office and wear whatever the clothes they prefer, all their own way of trying to achieve a target.. The target is 9 am. .. if you are, then you have abided by the law.. They all synchronized in their own style.. (if you are late, it does not mean you have not abided by law, but your level of achievement is low, you could have figured out better than that to be at 9) . .. The path of the Divine is uniform, that can be achieved collectively if synchronized.. But after all it is individual effort.. Individually you can achieve by following path of the Divine.. thus everyone aligns to the Divine path even without we perceive it… That’s synchronization. But synchronization has its level of achievement.. Deviation is not called synchronization.. For instance, In diving if two people dive with different set of steps, that’s not synchronized diving.. But if they dive synchronized, but still with flaws, fine.. That’s level of synchronization.. Are you and me diving synchronized with any level of achievement? No.. we are not synchronized divers of any level of achievement.. I am afraid..
But there are matters in Al Quran, it is not for practices but for wisdom.. when it is considered not for PRACTICES, you can’t synchronize.. Am I right? The one who got the wisdom only realizes about it.. The one who did not reach that wisdom would always find fault in the one who is right up there with wisdom.. Because he cannot realize what his wisdom is.. let’s avoid that here.. because it is an individual gift of the Divine.. example teacher of Musa..
Everyone’s faculties are not considered high-end wisdom.. 1736 is clear. Our faculties are responsible here and accountable on that day for our practices plus our faiths not for our comprehensive wisdom. if a person is blind or deaf or mentally ill, fine.. Allah has deprived his faculties.. But I am talking about 1736.. Everyone uses their faculties in life. Suppose if you believed in a globe Earth, you have a reason why you believed what you believed. You did not remain saying I don’t know after using faculties (then it was not within your faculty) .. Why you believed in a globe Earth is not outside of your faculties, and that’s why the Divine states you are accountable with faculties.. Can you give explanation for excuse for believing in globe earth saying that’s what my faculties led me my Lord.. No way.. then everyone will escape from their way of life blaming faculties as if faculties did the wrong option not the self.. unfortunately, Self is constituted with faculties only.. Question is, did one use his or her faculties prior to taking something as truth or so lazy and still believed, then utterly accountable.. Accountable has a meaning.. Which side one ends up is vital by using faculties.. In the side of satan or the Divine, for all these faculties play a role and our faculties are sufficient to perceive the Divine truth.. Meticulously think, how can Satan hoodwink and mislead anyone unless Satan applies its technique against, contrary to our faculties.. What does Satan apply to mislead us? Isn’t it our faculties that Satan touches? Of course Yes.. What is deception? We did not use our faculties in the right way, so we got deceived.. Am I right? Can we blame anyone for getting deceived? No.. We are accountable for not using the faculties to the maximum.. Why people become fools? Are they naturally fools? No, they don’t want to use faculties like they use for some other purposes in their lives..
The shape of the Earth doesn’t matter if you have naturally remained on the side of truth with what your faculties could perceive... Problem is you have transgressed your faculties. If no one claimed they landed on the Moon, it is not a subject to even discuss.. Issue is people believed.. No one’s faculties allow him to think that the Moon is rotating, or no one's faculties allow you to perceive that we are moving, rotating, tilting in the Earth.. So, the prophet and his companions and concurred ones, somehow knew the heliocentric model and aligned with using faculties?.. Impossibly No.. no one’s faculty could have imagined this blasphemous theory.. So, their (prophet and others) only option is what they observed and reasoned like we observe and reason. That’s static.. It is hard to believe that they never considered the creations of Earth and Heavens in their life but only preached Al Quran.. The Divine is Divine cus of what He has created.. HE is a creator cus Earth and heavens exist.. We trust that the Divine exists cus we observe the Earth and heavens and reason.. How shame if a false model is presented in between..
You ask why the shape of the Earth matters, cus we have options now to choose.. One is the heliocentric model as that is the established one these days, and the other is what we observe and can reason with our faculties.. It matters cus you have chosen the creation of the Divine as the heliocentric model that you can’t observe or reason, but is merely a theory of sophistry.. Choosing the one that is against our faculties is going against what the Divine created nature… No Messengers had this conundrum to encounter and they knew on what platform they were living cus they had their faculties and they knew what the Divine created as the Earth and Heavens, though no one knows the unseen how it exactly looks, but we can perceive it is not what this blasphemous theory depicts.. Simply cus it is not perceivable by anyone’s faculties..
Again you ask why the shape of the Earth matters? Then why did you choose the heliocentric model which is mere theory if it doesn’t matter at all.. By choosing the heliocentric model, you advocate to the world that this is how the Divine has created the Universe.. That’s why it matters to those who don’t accept a such a sophisty..
GL you are indirectly asking people to think beyond their faculties.. Do you realize that? Because to accept heliocentric, people should tie a blindfold and trust that the Moon is rotating and spinning around a ball Earth.. Since you have believed in heliocentric model, you are indirectly teaching people that the Earth is travelling 67000 miles per hour in space while doing all the gymnastics, while you have no knowledge of it at all (apply 1736).. The Unknown is known to you.. This is not within the faculties of either observation or reasoning or even consciousness or not subject to experiment.. Human faculties coupled with any latest technology to assist with, have no role to play here.. The only role humans can take from this is DECEPTION. The one who is deluded would only educate others under the influence of his delusion.. If someone is passing you any information that is beyond one’s faculties could take, then it is pseudoscience. -
Sorry I did not take into the list brothers Mazhar and Hawk who participated in the dabate.. I don't know about their faith to be exact..
Islam. And my covenant is to remain attached solely and exclusively to Qur'an and the Teacher exalted universal Messenger Muhammad sas.
I suggest to people that firstly study the famous book "How to read a book". Only then try to read the Book where Author claims it is the Greatest Book.
Grand Qur’ān
Propounded Interlingual Translation Methodology
Triplet Theory of Translation analogous to Protein synthesis
https//haqeeqat.pk/TranslationMethadology1.htmThank you for clarifying your faith, which I never requested from you.. So, it sounds, unless I get you wrong, it is the Quran plus hadith or ancestral practices.. Say Yes or No to this, so, it would be much clearer.. But no compelling, if you prefer only..
Meanwhile, if there are prerequisites to read Al Quran, then the Divine would have given those prerequisites as well.
Guidance of the Divine is the guidance. Note that well.. not through the prerequisite … it requires honesty and the approach to the Divine alone, then use observations, hearing, and consciousness (meld all for reasoning).. so simple.. ‘It guides to those who conscientize’ 22 and that’s the prerequisite.. What is it? Yes, conscientize.. If not conscientize, guidance is far from reach.. Have a good day.. -
Thank you for clarifying your faith, which I never requested from you.. So, it sounds, unless I get you wrong, it is the Quran plus hadith or ancestral practices.. Say Yes or No to this, so, it would be much clearer.. But no compelling, if you prefer only..
Meanwhile, if there are prerequisites to read Al Quran, then the Divine would have given those prerequisites as well.
Guidance of the Divine is the guidance. Note that well.. not through the prerequisite … it requires honesty and the approach to the Divine alone, then use observations, hearing, and consciousness (meld all for reasoning).. so simple.. ‘It guides to those who conscientize’ 22 and that’s the prerequisite.. What is it? Yes, conscientize.. If not conscientize, guidance is far from reach.. Have a good day..You add unnecessarily and see, talkative. Read again what I wrote.
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I don't want to go off topic here.. Had you simply said Yes or No.. It would have been much clearer..
Anyway, I took the help of ChatGPT with your statement, and it states you follow the Hadiths and Sunnah of the Prophet. Whatever the truth is, I don't care.. I am not here to research about you.. That's why I skipped you in the list..here it replied..
So, when a person says, "My covenant is to remain attached solely and exclusively to... the Teacher exalted universal Messenger Muhammad (sas)," the primary meaning is
He follows the Sunnah of the Messenger (sas).
The Hadith are the indispensable vehicle or the primary source through which we know the Sunnah. But the ultimate object of attachment and emulation is the Sunnah itself—his actual way of life.
Anyway guys, anyone interested, pls watch these interesting conversations too.. Pretty cool conversation..
https//youtu.be/goesxrLEBjQ?si=Fs0_Jc9nsGXS_8bw
https//youtu.be/TybUKAeFkPU
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I don't want to go off topic here.. Had you simply said Yes or No.. It would have been much clearer..
Anyway, I took the help of ChatGPT with your statement, and it states you follow the Hadiths and Sunnah of the Prophet. Whatever the truth is, I don't care.. I am not here to research about you.. That's why I skipped you in the list..here it replied..
So, when a person says, "My covenant is to remain attached solely and exclusively to... the Teacher exalted universal Messenger Muhammad (sas)," the primary meaning is
He follows the Sunnah of the Messenger (sas).
The Hadith are the indispensable vehicle or the primary source through which we know the Sunnah. But the ultimate object of attachment and emulation is the Sunnah itself—his actual way of life.
Anyway guys, anyone interested, pls watch these interesting conversations too.. Pretty cool conversation..
https//youtu.be/goesxrLEBjQ?si=Fs0_Jc9nsGXS_8bw
https//youtu.be/TybUKAeFkPU
No. Quran is declared by Allah the Exalted as "قول رسول کریم"
So there is no need to waste time in things other than it. -
Peace jkhan.
To me, you are in a worse situation accepting the flat earth theory.
You see, with your own eyes, when the sun rises in the morning everything on earth has a shadow, this shadow is moving in a rotation until the sun sets. Is that magic or is our earth turning?
Have you not seen how your Lord designed the shadow? If He willed, He could have made it fixed, then we would have designed the sun accordingly.
أَلَم تَرَ إِلىٰ رَبِّكَ كَيفَ مَدَّ الظِّلَّ وَلَو شاءَ لَجَعَلَهُ ساكِنًا ثُمَّ جَعَلنَا الشَّمسَ عَلَيهِ دَليلًا
However GOD designed the earth to rotate around the sun.Also you see day and night and you see the four seasons , then you claim the earth is stationary!
Also you see the spherical shape of the moon and other planets and stars then you assume the earth is different!!!The mind boggles.
I know it is futile going into a debate on this issue, reflect though on your view brother. It is worse than what you describe about me.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
The article was prepared using Chatgpt only in assistance for narrative building based on pointers from both sides of debates
Flat Earth Belief vs. Real Space Exploration
The flat-earth belief is built on the idea that our planet is not a globe but a flat disk, with the sky above acting as a dome and Antarctica forming an ice wall around the edges. According to flat-earthers, there is no outer space, no planets, and no satellites. The sun and moon are simply small local lights moving in circles above the flat Earth.
But the biggest challenge to this view comes from modern space exploration. Countries across the world — not just NASA — have launched rockets, satellites, and astronauts into orbit and beyond. India, China, Russia, Europe, and Japan all have independent space programs. If Earth were truly flat and space were fake, then all these rival nations, many of which compete politically and militarily, would have to be secretly cooperating for decades in order to maintain the same “lie.”
Real Evidence We See
When India launches rockets such as the PSLV, GSLV, or sends missions like Chandrayaan to the moon, millions of people watch live. These rockets are tracked by international observers, universities, and even amateur astronomers with telescopes. China’s Long March rockets are also launched publicly, and their astronauts now live aboard the Tiangong space station — which anyone can see pass overhead in the night sky, just like the International Space Station (ISS).
These are not events controlled only by NASA. They are run by entirely different countries with different technologies and launch sites. If all of this were fake, it would require a global conspiracy involving thousands of scientists, engineers, pilots, and even amateur space-watchers across the world — with not a single whistleblower exposing the truth.
Flat-Earther Explanations
Flat-earthers, however, respond by saying
“Rockets are real, but they don’t reach space.” They claim rockets go up, curve sideways, and then fall into the ocean. The rest — satellites, space stations, planets — is all faked through computer graphics.
“All space agencies cooperate in secrecy.” They argue that even rivals like the U.S., Russia, China, and India are secretly united to keep the flat-earth truth hidden.
“Images are CGI.” Any photos or videos showing Earth as a globe are dismissed as composites or digital trickery.
“Space is a hoax.” They claim no one has ever gone beyond Earth, and that what we see in space missions are just staged events.
Why This Doesn’t Hold Up
The problem with this thinking is that it demands a level of secrecy and global cooperation that is practically impossible. The United States and the Soviet Union were Cold War rivals, spying on each other’s every move — yet both tracked each other’s space missions and confirmed satellites orbiting the globe. Today, India and China are strategic competitors, yet both have independently reached the moon. Private companies like SpaceX, Blue Origin, and even independent universities around the world launch satellites and track orbital paths. Amateur balloon launches with ordinary cameras have also captured the curvature of Earth without relying on NASA.
The reality is far simpler Earth is round, rockets do go to space, satellites orbit Earth, and planets are real. Multiple countries, companies, and even independent observers confirm this every day. Believing the flat-earth claim would require us to assume that every government, scientist, engineer, and hobbyist worldwide is part of one perfect conspiracy that has lasted over sixty years — a theory far less believable than the simple truth that Earth is a globe.
With reference to GL post
When the Qur’an tells us in 2545–46 “have you not seen how your Lord extends the shadow… then made the sun its guide,” it is calling us to use our faculties — not only the naked eye but also the mind and whatever tools extend our perception. In the Prophet’s time people observed shadows with the eye, just as they observed stars for navigation. Today, the same faculties are extended with telescopes, satellites, and mathematics. That still falls within 1736 — using sight, hearing, and intellect responsibly.
The verse itself shows that Allah designed a system where shadows move in relation to the sun’s position. Their daily change, seasonal variation, and even the hypothetical of a “fixed shadow” all point to Earth’s rotation, tilt, and orbit — a design only consistent with a spherical Earth. This is not pseudoscience, it is exactly what happens when we use our faculties honestly.
The Qur’an’s concern is not to force believers to synchronize on every model of the heavens, but to synchronize on the straight path. These cosmic signs are not there to divide us over theories, but to awaken us to the Creator’s balance and remind us of accountability.
Take 2545–46
“Have you not seen how your Lord extends the shadow? If He willed, He could make it fixed. Then He made the sun its guide. Then We withdraw it little by little.”
This is not written as a physics textbook, but it calls us to observe with both the eyes and the mind. A detailed analysis shows
Before sunrise there is a diffuse atmospheric shadow.
During the day shadows stretch, shorten, and change angle because the Earth rotates.
Their seasonal variation comes from Earth’s tilted axis as it orbits the sun.
If Allah made it “fixed,” that would mean one side of Earth locked in eternal day, the other in eternal night, with a fixed twilight in between — a scenario possible only on a spherical rotating planet.
So the Qur’an uses something as ordinary as shadow to demonstrate Allah’s power, but it also points us to the precision of the system He created. The command “have you not seen” is a call to use our faculties in the right way.Flat Earth Counterarguments to Shadow-Based Evidence
- Local Sun Theory
Some flat Earthers claim the differing shadow lengths between locations can be explained if the Sun is a small, local source moving overhead—like a spotlight. So when different places experience shadow angles and varying lengths, they say it’s because the Sun is close and not distant.
Example In a Reddit discussion, one user wrote
“Their argument is that two points having two different shadows lengths could still be caused by a small local sun.”
This avoids the need for Earth’s rotation by proposing a Sun that hovers and moves over a flat disk.- Selective Acceptance of Evidence
Even when confronted with clearly conflicting observations, some persist
During a trip to Antarctica—where the Sun was visible for 24 hours—one flat Earther admitted
“I honestly believed there was no 24‑hour sun ... but I honestly now believe there is.”
Yet they still hesitated to admit that this evidence supports a round Earth, suggesting it's just a "singular data point."
Others reject straightforward experiments showing curvature, such as boats coming into view over distance or shoreline horizon distortion, calling such demonstrations invalid or tied to conspiracies.In a nutshell
When debating flat-earth believers, you often notice a repeating pattern
Reframing – If you say they are imposing their belief, they quickly adjust it to sound neutral “instead of admitting they are pushing their own view, they present it as if they are simply pointing everyone back to “the Divine path,” not to themselves.”
️ Raising the stakes – Even side issues, like the Earth’s shape, get tied to accountability on the Day of Judgment. This turns a scientific point into a spiritual test.Doubling down – If you bring Qur’anic evidence (like shadows) or modern faculties (telescopes, observations), they counter with “faculties are deceived” or “Satan misleads through these perceptions.” This way, every proof becomes reinterpreted as deception. But this is the same tendency that once led scholars in KSA to say telephones were “the voice of the devil on the other side.” The Church eventually moved past such thinking, but many Muslims today remain stuck in the same ignorance — suspicious of science until it can no longer be denied.
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Hi, both Fusion and GL..
2545 Sahih International Have you not considered your Lord - how He extends the shadow, and if He willed, He could have made it stationary? Then We made the sun for it an indication.
Let me not bring my translation, let us work with the existing one..
Three major phrases in this context…
1… Have you not considered your Lord?
2… how He extends the shadow, and if He willed, He could have made it stationary?
3… Then We made the sun for it an indication.This is Al Quran, but what it teaches us… Observe His creations not through some accepted invented theory (heliocentric) and through its lens, then you don’t observe, but biased observation .. isn’t it? Why observe to know the truth of our Lord.. Everyone knows to deduct truth, observation + hearing + consciousness and then blend them all to reason.. So, according to this verse, if you failed to do so, you have not considered your Lord.. at least it addresses those who normally use their faculties to the max.. Faculty doesn’t mean that we can’t use technologies.. Your eyes cannot see bacteria, you use a microscope, but what sees it, is the eyes after all, but with the help of a microscope.. You are seeing a star P1000 camera, you can’t see it that near but you see it much closer with the help of P1000 camera, but. after all, what we see it, is our eyes.. If you are experimenting with something, then it is not mere faculties, but we experiment for the faculties to decide..
We all observe shadows don’t remain the same size from the moment the sun rises above the horizon… This is just intuition, mere observation proves, yes, it changes.. But if one needs to know why it changes, then one needs to apply all faculties.. It’s all because of the Sun’s movement.. Not both Sun’s and Earth’s movement, and that’s an assumption.. The Divine proves it in the verse itself… How can anyone make the shadows stationary, But the Divine says He can with the existing system with the Sun alone..
Well then notice, how .. He said it all depends on the Sun.. Then it is a question mark, how the sun that genuinely create the shadows, can create shadows that is stationary (let’s hope stationary here is same size throughout the day at a given location, I don’t know what is stationary otherwise here, or else translation is wrong).. now the question is we have to explore, how it works in heliocentric model.. The Divine said He can do only with the Sun. Nothing is mentioned about the Earth.. Since the Earth is moving and rotating, and tilting, you can never make the shadows stationary with this model... If Earth is the one that rotates, shadows are subjected to change.. if possible, let me know how you do that?
If you recall, I explained this in another topic the Sun is moving in a wave shape, similar to a Pringle chip shape or real 3d analemma shape, above our flat Earth (if you go to my website awakenwithalquran – facts of Al Quran for your insight, you can see in the first page itself, not updated with my quran translations lately). That’s why the Divine said two sun sets and two sun rises.. Like the word explains, the Sun indeed sets and rises (not perspective) cus of this WAVE shape movement.. But if instead of WAVE shape, if it is moving in a circular motion in the same attitude, you will always have one shape of shadow, depending on where you live, and it won’t change morning and afternoon and evening.. Because this sun’s WAVE pattern movement causes rise and set so shadows change in size (sun’s lower WAVE positions lengthier shadows and upper WAVE position smaller shadows). That’s why the Divine says in a couple of verses, roughly if the Divine to continue the Night till day of resurrection who brings the daytime to you, vice versa.. That’s impossible cus the Earth rotates (If Earth rotations stop, then total system (heliocentric model) collapse not only night and day).. Since The Divine clearly stated the Sun is the Indication, just deeply reflect.. Nothing else causes it but ONLY the SUN.. -
Mazhar I have not read Sorensen Seeing Dark Things but from the title it seems to explore shadows in a philosophical way. That actually connects well to what the Quran itself asks us to do i.e. I quote "Have you not considered your Lord how He extends the shadow… then made the Sun its guide" (2545–46).
This is not just about casually looking but about using both reason and intuition. And if we really consider the shadow fully, we see two things
• it changes in length during the day,
• it also shifts east to west.
That daily pattern is only explained by Earths rotation. If someone notices only half of this sign then they have not really fulfilled what the verse commands i.e. to reflect completely on it.
Since you must have read it, appreciate your insights.
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2545 Sahih International Have you not considered your Lord - how He extends the shadow (season changeover), and if He willed, He could have made it stationary? Then We made the sun for it an indication.
We discussed this as they translated but the truth is different, continue reading.. Dha Lam Lam is shade, shadow etc.. But, it has a broader meaning and research it.. Here, it means in their words, solstice/equinox as we use it in modern days. But to be precise, a period in which the season changes from one shade to another (summer to winter / winter to summer / Spring to Autumn and so on) is what mean this root in this verse.. It makes perfect sense that the Divine makes the season changeovers with the Sun only.. Perfect sense NOT in heliocentric.. Not the tilt of the Earth to 23 something degree. It has a huge flow.. let me point it out..
What is the purpose of Earth's tilt of 23 degrees? Yes, for the season change.. But, remember Earth is rotating on its axis one full round within 24 hours.. For example, when America is on the tilted side during day time, the same America is on the opposite side during the night time in much higher position cus of 23 degree tilt. Take your ball Earth and verify it with 23 degree tilt by rotating it.. So America stands in lower tilt and upper tilt within 24 hours.. If the tilt’s absolute reason is to cause season, then within 24 hours America should experience two different seasonal effects.. Did you get that right?
Here, the Divine explains contrary to it in clear simple language that ‘Did you concentrate in your Lord? Yes, how He extends solstice.. If He wanted He could have made it static, i.e. solstice won’t change if He wanted.. i.e. wherever the summer it stays summer and wherever the winter it stays winter and same other seasons.. But, the Divine explains, why the solstice causes.. If, He wanted to make it static, He would have used the Sun path and pace accordingly.. It means, the Sun’s path and pace will not change.. In a static Earth, the Sun’s path and pace change, and that’s why seasons are formed.. So Solstice changes.. Clear proof, but you cannot accept it for all, cus, you have a chosen model.. Then you would say, this is not about solstice, this is about shadow caused by sunlight.. Even if you take as a shadow, it doesn’t make any sense in the heliocentric model.. You can’t get static shadow.. Come on open your eyes, but observing and reasoning.. Now, who can say that the Earth’s shape doesn’t matter.. Yes, it doesn’t matter to those who are lazy who never reads Al Quran.. Al Quran is a book with pure language plus pure meaningful phrases, so one who conscientize only can grasp it with what is written vs what is actual.. -
Mazhar I have not read Sorensen Seeing Dark Things but from the title it seems to explore shadows in a philosophical way. That actually connects well to what the Quran itself asks us to do i.e. I quote "Have you not considered your Lord how He extends the shadow… then made the Sun its guide" (2545–46).
This is not just about casually looking but about using both reason and intuition. And if we really consider the shadow fully, we see two things
• it changes in length during the day,
• it also shifts east to west.
That daily pattern is only explained by Earths rotation. If someone notices only half of this sign then they have not really fulfilled what the verse commands i.e. to reflect completely on it.
Since you must have read it, appreciate your insights.
Many use philosophy and science interchangeably.
- (vi) Unique and amazing attribute of the Accomplisher of exalted Galaxy سِرَاجٙا مُّنِيـرٙا
(a) Shadow is per see created entity - fellow-being. Had he this fellow?
Allah the Exalted has attributed another unique attribute as Circumstantial Adverb in the address to the Dignified and Exalted Sincere Allegiant
وَسِرَاجٙا مُّنِيـرٙا .٤٦
And as a Figure of Unique Prominence characteristically Reflector of Visible Light illuminator and Sustainer of the Life.
The circumstantial adverb (حال) is an Adjectival Phrase comprising of a noun and active participle rendering it a descriptive term. It can be interpreted both literally and figuratively. It seems this attributive descriptive phrase in litereral meaning does support the reports that exalted Messenger did not cast a shadow. In physics, a Shadow is a dark area where light from a light source is blocked by an opaque object. It occupies all of the three-dimensional volume behind an object with light in front of it. It is however merely an explanation or cause for the observation of "shadow". What exactly is shadow? In fact it is per se an Entity created
وَلِلَّهِ يَسْجُدُ مَن فِـى ٱلسَّمَٟوَٟتِ وَٱلۡأَرْضِ طَوْعٙا وَكَرْهٙا
Be aware; whoever is living-exists in the Skies and the Earth submits humbly in surrender; and will acknowledge and submit humbly in surrender for Allah the Exalted; in states arising on wilful acceptance-acknowledgement with reverence, and will do so under compulsion of coercive circumstances.
وَظِلٟلُـهُـم بِٱلْغُدُوِّ وَٱلْءَاصَالِ۩ .١٥
However, their Shadows do prostrate - lie stretched out on the ground in reverence and submission for Allah the Exalted, at occasion of the mornings and the evenings.
One of the subject of indicative mood imperfect verb are the "shadows" of all those living - existing in the Skies and the Earth. Thus they are per se entities. Their performing the act of (يَسْجُدُ) lying stretched out on the ground with face downwards is restricted to two timings of the day. The tacit importance of this fact is emphasised by rhetorical questioning
أَوَلَمْ يَرَوْا۟ إِلَـىٰ مَا خَلَقَ ٱللَّهُ مِن شَـىْءٛ
Have they not seen-given a thought towards that; which Allah the Exalted has created, in non-tangible to touch-state-entity in their own right derivatively from matter-a tangible thing?
يَتَفَيَّؤُا۟ ظِلَٟلُهُۥ عَنِ ٱلْيَـمِيـنِ وَٱلْشَّمَآئِلِ سُجَّدٙا لِّلَّهِ وَهُـمْ دَٟخِرُونَ .٤٨
The characteristic feature is that its shadows keep self shifting from the rights and the lefts in the state like of those who prostrate for Allah the Exalted. Those shadows are in a state of submissive and humble natured.
Rhetorical question is a device used to persuade and subtly influence the audience. It is a question not asked for the answer, but for the effect. It is used to emphasize a point or just to get the audience thinking. It is a very powerful persuasive and thought provoking tool. The question is about having seen the shadows, an everyday perceptual experience, receiving non-epistemic response, without noticing or recognizing their cause of existence and properties. Obviously people have been seeing the shadows of things but perhaps never thought they are but created entities of Allah the Exalted, made to originate form everything created. Exactly the manner of creation and rendition of woman as fellow-being from the First Person, the creation and rendition of fellow-being of creatures Shadow is mentioned
Read in detail
https//haqeeqat.pk/TranslationCommunicationHistory.htm - (vi) Unique and amazing attribute of the Accomplisher of exalted Galaxy سِرَاجٙا مُّنِيـرٙا
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Salam Mazhar when I first read your reply I was a bit lost because our original discussionwas about whether the earth is flat and the idea that the moon is just plasma You then brought in Sorensens book and I thought maybe this had a link with the shadow arguments people use in that debate. But what you’ve written seems to go in a completely different direction.
If I understand you right... you saying shadows themselves are a kind of created entity???, and even connecting this to the Prophet not having a shadow. I have to be honest this doesnot really seem related to the subject we were discussing. Also, I dont see in the Quran any basis for saying shadows are independent creations or that the Prophet had no shadow.
From the name of the book The Philosophy of Shadows I imagine it is more about how people perceive or think about shadows not about shadows being separate beings. So maybe you are using the book as a way to highlight your own understanding of certain verses. Thats fine but it seems like a different discussion altogether. I will need to find time to read the book.
Maybe we can keep this thread focused on the flat earth / moon point and if needed start another thread later for the shadow interpretations.
Note About the verse2545
Some interpret this verse as referring to shadows others even as seasonal transitions. But we should be careful not to switch definitions to suit a model the verse itself is clear in speaking about the sun as a guide for the shadow. But to me that feels like moving too far from what the text and our daily observation are actually pointing at. -
Salam Mazhar when I first read your reply I was a bit lost because our original discussionwas about whether the earth is flat and the idea that the moon is just plasma You then brought in Sorensens book and I thought maybe this had a link with the shadow arguments people use in that debate. But what you’ve written seems to go in a completely different direction.
If I understand you right... you saying shadows themselves are a kind of created entity???, and even connecting this to the Prophet not having a shadow. I have to be honest this doesnot really seem related to the subject we were discussing. Also, I dont see in the Quran any basis for saying shadows are independent creations or that the Prophet had no shadow.
From the name of the book The Philosophy of Shadows I imagine it is more about how people perceive or think about shadows not about shadows being separate beings. So maybe you are using the book as a way to highlight your own understanding of certain verses. Thats fine but it seems like a different discussion altogether. I will need to find time to read the book.
Maybe we can keep this thread focused on the flat earth / moon point and if needed start another thread later for the shadow interpretations.
Note About the verse2545
Some interpret this verse as referring to shadows others even as seasonal transitions. But we should be careful not to switch definitions to suit a model the verse itself is clear in speaking about the sun as a guide for the shadow. But to me that feels like moving too far from what the text and our daily observation are actually pointing at.Salam.
Perhaps, it was with reference to your this post
//We have already gone through three earlier videos where the same claims were made about the Earth being flat, not rotating, shadows, etc.//It shows it as an entity
وَٱللَّهُ جَعَلَ لَـكُـم مِّمَّا خَلَقَ ظِلَٟلٙا
Realize it, Allah the Exalted has rendered out of what He has created as shadows for reflection by you people — -
Thanks Mazhar for your feedback.
When I read this verse 1681 I see it in the same flow as the rest of the passage Allah reminding us of His bounties. As
From what Allah has created He has provided shade for you(from things he created like trees, mountains, buildings, clouds), made places of shelter in the mountains, clothes to protect you from heat, and equipment to afford protection in war.The verse is using the Arabic style of jaala not to mean that a shadow is an independent created being but that Allah arranged His creation so it provides shade as a benefit just like He made the night a covering (2547) it is about function, not a separate entity.
So the way I understand it the point is that shade is part of this larger list of human benefits. Allah arranged creation in such a way that shadows exist and we can use them for comfort and protection. To me it is less about shadows being a separate entity and more about how they like clothing or mountains serve as signs of Allah’s mercy.
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Thanks Mazhar for your feedback.
When I read this verse 1681 I see it in the same flow as the rest of the passage Allah reminding us of His bounties. As
From what Allah has created He has provided shade for you(from things he created like trees, mountains, buildings, clouds), made places of shelter in the mountains, clothes to protect you from heat, and equipment to afford protection in war.The verse is using the Arabic style of jaala not to mean that a shadow is an independent created being but that Allah arranged His creation so it provides shade as a benefit just like He made the night a covering (2547) it is about function, not a separate entity.
So the way I understand it the point is that shade is part of this larger list of human benefits. Allah arranged creation in such a way that shadows exist and we can use them for comfort and protection. To me it is less about shadows being a separate entity and more about how they like clothing or mountains serve as signs of Allah’s mercy.
Shadow and shade are different phenomenon.
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A shadow is a specific, defined image. It is the precise dark shape that results when an object blocks a source of light. It is countable.
Shade is the general, relative darkness and coolness caused by something blocking the sun. It is the area protected from the sun's harsh light and heat.
وَٱللَّهُ جَعَلَ لَـكُـم مِّمَّا خَلَقَ ظِلَٟلٙا
Realize it, Allah the Exalted has rendered out of what He has created as shadows/shades for you people —This verb needs two objects to complete the meanings.
Subject of a verb is always an entity
وَلِلَّهِ يَسْجُدُ مَن فِـى ٱلسَّمَٟوَٟتِ وَٱلۡأَرْضِ طَوْعٙا وَكَرْهٙاوَظِلٟلُـهُـم بِٱلْغُدُوِّ وَٱلْءَاصَالِ۩١٥
Be aware; whoever is living-exists in the Skies and the Earth submits humbly in surrender; and will acknowledge and submit humbly in surrender for Allah the Exalted; in states arising on wilful acceptance-acknowledgement with reverence, and will do so under compulsion of coercive circumstances. However, their shadows make themselves in prostrate posture for Allah the Exalted, at occasion of the mornings and the evenings.Interesting information
أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَـىٰ رَبِّكَ كَيْفَ مَدَّ ٱلظِّلَّ وَلَوْ شَآءَ لَجَعَلَهُۥ سَاكِنٙاثُـمَّ جَعَلْنَا ٱلشَّمْسَ عَلَيْهِ دَلِيلٙا ٤٥
ثُـمَّ قَبَضْنَٟهُ إِلَيْنَا قَبْضٙا يَسِيـرٙا ٤٦
Did you not look towards your Sustainer Lord to know as to how He has stretched-lengthened the Shadow? And had He the Exalted so willed, He would certainly have rendered it (the shadow) as an object that remains motionless - still —Afterwards, Our Majesty rendered the Sun as a pointer - indicator upon it (shadow).
Afterwards, Our Majesty seized it towards Ourselves, in manner of easy - smooth retraction.That is the point in time when objects are shadow-less.
If Allah the Exalted Willed, He Could Make It Motionless
Shadows are dynamic because of the earth’s rotation and the Sun’s apparent motion.
Hypothetical scenario if the Sun were fixed directly overhead (or Earth did not rotate), shadows could remain still — but in reality they move continuously. -
https//youtu.be/CETEDk5_Hm8?si=1ydYvWiZUccRZhXw
All I understood by watching this video was that people are so cognitively dissonant.. I remember the verse in the Quran like it states, 'they denied the truth after they knew it' ...
Cool video for people to reflect on whatever they get from it..
