Question on 4:101

[Mahdi20]

In the name of God

Salam

as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want...

But.... When i read 4101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct) but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times... i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?

Peace handshake

[jkhan]

In the name of God

Salam

as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want...

But.... When i read 4101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct) but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times... i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?

Peace handshake

Peace...

I bet this topic would have been discussed and debated in many a times in this forum So I advice humbly to search, find and read... If still any queries, pls raise in those topics already discussed.. Hope it helps... As you wish..

[Wakas]

peace,

The fault may lie in your approach. You are only thinking of "shorten" in terms of unit of prayer, e.g. from 3 to 2. What about "shorten" in terms of length of time? e.g. from 40mins to 20mins.

?

[Mahdi20]

Salam again

Sorry jkhan.... i must have searched before creating a new topic , u are right

Peace wakas no no, the units was an example .... ok lets consider time.... then there may was Specified minutes.. so how about this.... i mean , the prayer may was at least 5minutes.... so how we can know this through quran? i mean, if we consider minutes.... how much time should a prayer takes.(my grammar is so bad... i hope you understand what i want to say)

And another thing... did the people at the time of prophet knows that what the minute is? i mean the second,minute or any short unit of time... was invented at the time of prophet?

[Wakas]

My use of "minutes" was just an example. See
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/salat-timings-Quran.html

[Mahdi20]

Peace

Yes i know this was an example.... so i mentioned there was any”short unit of time” was invented at the time?

But lets dont get far from the point....

i have read the link you have sended brother.... but it was about when to do prayer...(i dont agree with this opinion... but i respect it i think time of what we call prayer today is mentioned 20130 3017 and 301not how long a prayer should be at least

My question was where and how we can know from quran that how much should a player be at least? i mean , ok God says the prayer should be at least Takes A , but u can pray shorter than A in some situtaions like fear of enemy attack...
So where the A is mentioned in quran

[jkhan]

In the name of God

Salam

as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want...

But.... When i read 4101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct) but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times... i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?

Peace handshake

Peace...

Let me give my input as well.
17110-111 is in fact Salat... Carefully note it says to magnify God in abundance/ great / big / etc...
So we are to magnify Him a lot..
But salat is time framed..
For example Fajr Salat.. When actually the Fajr is.. 11114 clarifies it.. It is not a lengthy period.. It has limit.. Beyond that is not Fajr... I mean not before or not after.. So it has its limit.. No one need to explain the nature.. People are accustomed to it.. Remember Salat is not the only deed we are ordered to perform at fajr.. We are to read Quran, we are to thasbeeh.. So allocate a time limit within Fajr for salat... Out of that shorten when in fear..

If still not convinced.. Think like this.. God says to do four steps before salat.. One is wash your face.. Questions.. Has he said how to wash? Warm water or cold water or extreme clean water or just water.. So don't split hair there.. Just wash your face.. Now who gives the exact definition to face.. What is face?. We know with nature like we know what is Fajr .. Again one would ask how many times to wash hands..? Silly isn't it?... God just orders wash your hands Upto elbow... So just wash.. Why need repetition.. If he said wash it means it is at least once.. If you prefer 1-10 times do it..
If your mom says wash your hands kid before sitting at the dining table.. Do we ever ask.. Mom.. How many times I need to wash my hands? Just wash means.. Preference is given which includes at least once.. If not once then not washed..

So.. Naturally timing is given based on sun... So.. If you are doing regularly to a certain amount of time your Salat... Then device a comfortable time limit when you are in fear or travel. That's all up to the individual... Why make it so absurd... Suppose... If you usually go and visit your parents everyday for almost hour so that you have enough time spent there... But suddenly you become busy officially.. But still can't skip visiting beloved parents.. But you shorten... You know you are shortening the length of stay...

Remember.. Shortening of salat verse not revealed before timing of salat was fixed.. So don't complicate it... Look at quran leaving everything aside.. If you are preoccupied your mind with something else and read Quran then it will overtake your reading of Quran...

[Mahdi20]

Peace jkhan

Thanks for your answer.... im almost convinced... but i have one question to be fully convinced.

Ok.... i say i will pray 10minutes in fajr in normal situtation.... and if im in fear of something... i will pray 2 minutes

But u know... God says فَلَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ=there isnt any sin open you...

So if it s US to say how long we will pray in normal situtations....

Why God say There isnt sin upon you if we reduce prayer times.... i mean its so clear that reducing the durarion WE have set isnt a sin.... why god have said that it is not a sin when its clear that reducing the duration that we have selected as we wished isnt a sin(it likes i have egg, i say i want to sell it 1$... but somehow i change my mind and i want to sell it 0.5$ .... its is so clear that reducing price of that egg isnt a sin(because God hasnt said the egg price is 1$.... it was my choice)

in one sentenceif It is not God to say how long a prayer must be... and its i me or you that choose how long your soli prayer should be long... then why God said there isnt any sin upon you

i hope you understand what i want to say ...i am trying to improve my english ... but at the time my grammar is soo bad

Peace

[hawk99]

Peace Mahdi20

as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want.

yeah I hope no one attempts to stop you from praying.

In the name of God

But.... When i read 4101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct) but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times... i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?
Obviously you can shorten your prayers under certain circumstances.
Peace handshake

Obviously you can shorten your prayers under certain circumstances.

peace

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan

Thanks for your answer.... im almost convinced... but i have one question to be fully convinced.

Ok.... i say i will pray 10minutes in fajr in normal situtation.... and if im in fear of something... i will pray 2 minutes

But u know... God says فَلَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ جُنَاحٌ=there isnt any sin open you...

So if it s US to say how long we will pray in normal situtations....

Why God say There isnt sin upon you if we reduce prayer times.... i mean its so clear that reducing the durarion WE have set isnt a sin.... why god have said that it is not a sin when its clear that reducing the duration that we have selected as we wished isnt a sin(it likes i have egg, i say i want to sell it 1$... but somehow i change my mind and i want to sell it 0.5$ .... its is so clear that reducing price of that egg isnt a sin(because God hasnt said the egg price is 1$.... it was my choice)

in one sentenceif It is not God to say how long a prayer must be... and its i me or you that choose how long your soli prayer should be long... then why God said there isnt any sin upon you

i hope you understand what i want to say ...i am trying to improve my english ... but at the time my grammar is soo bad

Peace

Peace...

Don't rush to get convinced.. Research and beg to god for guidance and verify and be satisfied... If God guided and that's the ultimate result.. God never guides with with wrong option.. Would he?

Okay let me explain about sin.. Problem here is you took it as sin... It is not sin.. In fact it is not your issue but unfortunately translation.. But you should spend much time to study all junah verses.. And how come it be sin.. Indeed junah in my entire comprehension is blame.. That suits better...
Look at the next verse 4102 "But there is no blame(junah) upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms.."

The meaning here is it is better if you carry the weapon... But situation is worse and carrying them is hard and as a human being naturally keeping it down is best option.. Coz they are involved with another deed which is salat.. So God says No BLAME.. consequences may be bad by keeping the weapon down.. But no blame..
It is never a sin.. What is sin according to dictionary.. Just brows and see.. It never befits to junah..

So when it comes to prayer Salat.. We used to pray suppose as you said 10 mints.. Suddenly situation arises and you are in fear and you were in a hurry praying just couple of minutes.. God with His mercy authenticated that.. Yes shorten it doesn't matter and no blame on you... But do salat in other times as usual... If you use the word blame for all junah verses in entire Quran I don't think the meaning of verses changes.. They all befit.. God guide us..

[tlihawa]

Salam Mahdi,

In the name of God
But.... When i read 4101.... there is something strange...

something strange is a sign that we should re-examine our understanding and try to see it from a better perspective.

I've thought about this before too, and wrote my opinion on this forum. The post is quite old, but still relevant to my current understanding.

Peace,
I've been search for literal translation of salla, but still cannot find the right word to explain what salla is.
So I just try to grab the meaning of salat by reading the following verses

7531 falā saddaqa walā sallā
7532 walākin kadhaba watawallā

7531 For he did not believe nor salla
7532 But he denied and turned away.

So the saddaqa is the opposite of kadhaba, and salla is the opposite of turned away. So the word represent the salla here is straightaway or commitment.

But sometimes I found in Quran the word of Salla means to straightaway of something or commitment on something, depend on the context of verses.

Here is the examples

489 They hope that you will reject as they have rejected, then you will be the same. Do not take any of them as allies until they emigrate in the cause of God. If they turn away, then take them and kill them wherever you find them; and do not take from them any ally or supporter.

490 Except for those who reach a people with whom you have a covenant, or if they come to you with a reluctance in their chests to fight you or to fight their own people. Had God willed He would have given them strength and they would have fought you. But if they retire from you, and do not fight you, and they offer you peace; then God does not make for you a path against them.

The verses above talking about war against the Rejecter and also covenant of peace with the Rejecter. Starting from here, we will talk about the commitment (Salla) of the covenant of peace.

and let see the next verses

4101 And if you go forth in the land, then there is no harm that you taqsurū mina l-salati, if you fear that the rejecters will try you. The rejecters are to you a clear enemy.

4102 And if you are with them (the rejecters) and you lead salata for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have sajadū then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet yusallu come and falyusallu with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.

I let the word solaa untranslated so we can see how it works.

let's analyze the first untranslated words taqsuru minalsalati.

taqsuru come from triliteral root qaf-sad-ra means shortened, ceased, restrained, palace, fortress.

In this context, which the salaa means commitment regarding the covenant of peace, so the best word to describe taqsuru is restrained or ceased.

4101 And if you go forth in the land, then there is no harm that you restrained the commitment (of peace), if you fear that the rejecters will try you. The rejecters are to you a clear enemy.

and the next verse will be

4102 And if you are with them (the rejecters) and you lead the commitment (of peace) for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have agreed/consented/submissive (sajadū) then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet committed come and committed with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.

So the Salla here is about comitment to covenant of peace. In 4101, the prophet has been warned to restrained his commitment (of peace). In case another Rejecter (who didn't commit to the covenant of peace) will strike back, along the journey to the place of meeting, and during the meeting. The restrained commitment is meant to be wary, since the prophet could not 100% sure about the rejecter position.

and the next verse

4103 Then, if you have completed commitment (restrained one), remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, if you are secure, hold the commitment (full commitment). Indeed, the commitment for the believers is a Book that is scheduled.

another example is about commitment on trading.

the prerequisites here is to understand that

Yaumil Jumuah/Gathering Day (629) = Yawmil Jam'i/Gathering Day (649) = Yaumul Taghabuni/Day of mutual gain and loss (in the context of trade) (649) = Yaumil Qiyamati/the Day of assembly (4526) = Yaumun la bay'un/ No trading day (2254).

So the Yaumil Jumuah (gathering day) must be understood that it is not Friday or the sixth day in a week, but it's the day which hasn't come yet, and will be coming someday and also known as the day of ressurection.

Now let's get into the verse

629 yāayyuhā alladhīnaāmanū idhā nūdiya lilssalati min yawmil-jumuati fa-is'aw ilā dhik'ri l-lahi wadharū l-bay'a dhālikum khayrun lakum in kuntum ta'lamūna

629 O you who believe, when the call is made for the commitment of the day of gathering, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all trading. This is better for you, if only you knew.

Beware that the verse has used the word min before the yaumil jumuah to prevent the meaning "at the day". So it should be "of the day".

There are three things in the verse

• Commitment to the yaumil jumuah
• Get back to the dhikr'i (N) or remambrance of God
• Cease all trading

So context here is about trading. How to perform trading according to the dhikri (remembrance of god/Al Quran). As you can see in 629 and 649, that Yawmil Jumuah in 629 has the same word with the Yawmil Jam'i in 649. And in 649 you can find that Yawmil Jam'i also known as Yawmun Taghabuni, or The Day mutual gain or loss or cheat in trading, the same thing you can find in 2254, Yaumun la bay'un.

649 The Day when He will gather you; the Day of Gathering; that is the Day of mutual gain and loss. And whoever believes in God and does good works, He will forgive his sins, and will admit him into estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. Such is the great triumph.

What we can find that Salaa in 629 means commitment to prepare ourself before the day of gathering (also known as no trading day) has come. So we must understand how to trade correctly according to the Al Quran.

Why we need to cease the trading then?

It's caused by one of basic principles of trading is not easy to understand for some people as shown in the following verse

2275 Those who consume usury (riba) do not rise except as one being influenced by the touch of the devil. That is because they have said "Trade is the same as usury (riba)." While God has made trade lawful, and He has made usury unlawful. Whoever has received understanding from His Lord and ceases, then he will be forgiven for what was before this and his case will be with God. But whoever returns, then they are the people of the Fire, in it they will abide.

So the believer must stop for a while to understand how the trading works, how the trading different than usury.

And if the commitment has been made and the concept has been fully understood, the believer can continue to the business.

6210 Then, once the commitment is completed, you shall disperse through the land and seek the provisions of God, and remember God frequently that you may succeed.

Others basic principles of trading could be find in 2188, 2282, 1735, and 2437.

So that's all my opinion about Salaa.

Peace

Peace

[Mahdi20]

Peace jkhan

Yes you correct! Thanks…. Even in persian گناه have this meaning (گناه = جناح in persian)

Salam tilhawa…

That was a Thought provoking(i hope the word is correct cuz i used google translate) answer!
i am studying the meaning of salat in quran…. And i am almost sure that at least in some parts of quran salat doesnt mean prayer…. i think the thing that we call salat/namaz today is the verses 20130 3017-18

i will be so happy and thankful if you share your opinion on the meaning of salat in 56

Thanks….

[Mazhar]

In the name of God

Salam

as i know, quran didnt mentioned how long the prayer must be(quran didnt mentioned number of units) so we can pray as long as we want...

But.... When i read 4101.... there is something strange... u know, this verse say u can shorten your prayers in certain condintions(i hope that spelling is correct) but wait, if god didnt say how units the contact prayers should have... then why God said u can shorten you prayers sometimes.... i mean, there must be a regular units to say that you can shorten the units in some times... i mean, why God telled that u can shorten your prayers if there wasnt any exact units for prayers?

Peace handshake

Please see 4102 hos it is shortened.

[tlihawa]

Salam Mahdi,

And i am almost sure that at least in some parts of quran salat doesnt mean prayer…. i think the thing that we call salat/namaz today is the verses 20130 3017-18

Yes, I agree.

As you can see in my previous post, for me Salat is not turned away or commitment, this verse explain further,

2014 "I am God, there is no god except Me, so serve Me and uphold commitment (wa aqimisalaata) for My reminder <li dhikri>

So it is very clear that Salat is our commitment to uphold Allah's commands which are written in His reminder (in this case, Al Quran),

This commitment includes reading the kitab on a predetermined schedule, as you can see on the 4103,

4103 ..Indeed, the commitment<salat> for the believers is a Book that is scheduled <kitaban mawqutan>

First thing about salaat is we are commanded to read the Quran on daily basis, scheduled. You can do it while you're standing, or sitting, or on your sides.

So when other people do namaz, or solat ritually, I read the Quran instead. It can be in a standing position in a train for example, or sitting in a restaurant, or lying in bed at home.

And the schedule are,

11114 And uphold the commitment<salat> at two ends of the day, and the near side of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.

1778 Uphold the commitment <salat> at the inclined setting of the sun, until the darkening of the night; and the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed

You asked about the exact unit of the salat. So in terms of Salat as commitment to the book that is scheduled, or reading Al Quran at the certain times (for me three times a day) then, here is "the unit", or how much should you read,

7320 Your Lord knows that you rise a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, and one third of it; and a group of those who are with you. And God measures the night and the day. He knows that you will not be able to keep-up, so He pardons you. So read what is easy of the Quran. He knows that there will be sick among you, and others that go forth in the land seeking from the bounty of God, and others who are fighting in the cause of God, so read what you can of it..

"The unit" is read what is easy of the Quran. It can be different for each person.

The number of verses that I read is not much, only about 50 verses in one reading, so about 150 verses a day. That way I finished reading the Quran in more less 40 days. And then start again from the very beginning, it goes on like that all the time, just so I don't forget and always remember,

876 We will make you recite, so you will not forget.

So salat is commitment, and basically only our commitment can prevent evil, not my movement during "namaz",

2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Book and uphold the commitment, for the commitment prohibits immorality and evil deeds; but certainly the reminder of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.

To commit to God's reminder, we must start by reading at the time scheduled, to know what God really wants from us.

i will be so happy and thankful if you share your opinion on the meaning of salat in 56

Thanks….

For me, 56 is not a stand-alone verse, in short, I can say this,

fa-igh'silū in 56 is the explanation on how to do taghtasilū in 443 as per mugh'tasalun in 3842.

But here's my basic thinking about 443,

Salaamun Alaykum,
thank you for bring this topic in. By reading this, something came to my mind. Maybe it's not really related to your question, but let me share my thought.

This is one of my thought regarding the benefit of water and exercise that I have put in another forum, so let me put it in here,

Reading the story of the prophet Ayyub in Al Quran there are things that are interesting regarding the devil's whisper that can cause laziness, fatigue, even stress that causes depression.

3841 And recall Our servant Ayyub, when he called upon his Lord "The devil has afflicted me with distress <binusbin> and suffering <wa adhabin>."

We certainly know that this is not a physical distraction from the devil, but rather a whisper that affects the mind and causes stress.

Bad mental condition can affect physical health conditions. Satan whispers bad thoughts, such as fear, excessive anxiety, which causes stress to depression. For people who are not strong enough, it can be fatal, which can lead to suicide.

And then God responded to the prophet Ayyub's prayer as follows,

3842 ur'kuḍ birij'lika hādhā mugh'tasalun bāridun washarābun

I translate it as follows,

ur'kuḍ =
Ra-Kaf-Dad = to move the feet, urge, strike heavily (with foot), fly, run.

birij'lika
with your foot

hādhā
This

mugh'tasalun
water to wash
Gh-Siin-Lam = wash, purify, removing of dirt or filth, cleanse; covered much or often; water with which one washes himself; a certain plant growing in places that exude water and produce salt, place for washing, spring.

bāridun
cool

washarābun
and a drink

So from the above verse it can be seen that to get rid of stress that causes depression or laziness is to run and wash with water.

From my personal experience, it is true that exercising, especially running, can reduce or eliminate stress, because when exercising our bodies produce endorphins that make us relax.

Now, what does all of this have to do with verse 5 6?

In my opinion, verse 5 6 does not stand alone, but relates to 443, because they explain to one another.

I will put my own translation here, so you can see the connection between 56, 443 and 3842.

But before that I want you to know that my understanding of Salat is studying the Quran at a specified time and then applying these God's rules in daily life.

So let see,

443
yāayyuhā alladhīna āmanū = O you who believe

la taqrabū l-ṣalata wa-antum sukārā ḥattā taʿlamū mā taqūlūna = Do not go near SALAT while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying.

walā junuban = and not (when you are) in a distance (to me, it's in respect of relationship with God, could be cause by something that similar to intoxicated. see 591)

Jim-Nun-Ba a man who is distant, or remote
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000102.pdf

illa abiri sabīlin ḥattā taghtasilū = except when passing through a way until you have washed

*This taghtasilu related to 56 and what prophet Ayyub had done in the past in 3842

wa-in kuntum marḍā aw ʿalā safarin aw jāa aḥadun minkum mina l-ghāiṭi aw lāmastumu l-nisāa falam tajidū māan
And if you are ill or on a journey or came one of you from the toilet or you have touched he women and you dont find water

fatayammamū ṣaʿīdan ṭayyiban
then aim (at) good run (or move with quick step faster than when walking)

Sad-Ayn-Dal = to ascend, mount, run, move with quick steps faster than when walking, go up, be hard (affair).

*Tayammum in corpus
(226715) tayammamū aim (at) وَلَا تَيَمَّمُوا الْخَبِيثَ مِنْهُ تُنْفِقُونَ
(4433 fatayammamū then do tayammum أَوْ لَامَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ فَلَمْ تَجِدُوا مَاءً فَتَيَمَّمُوا صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا
(5640) fatayammamū then do tayyammum

fa-im'saḥū biwujūhikum wa-aydīkum
and wipe with it your faces and your hands (there will be water coming from your sweat)

innal-laha kāna ʿafuwwan ghafūran
Indeed, Allah is Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

So my conclusion, washing our face and hands with water to get rid of the effects of intoxicate, or by doing exercise (running) if we couldn't find water can be done when it is time for Salat comes (reading the Quran) to reconcile our relationship with God.

<a href="https//imgbb.com/"><img src="https//i.ibb.co/CwWNxFz/stress.png" alt="stress" border="0"></a>

Finally, fa-igh'silū in 56 is the explanation on how to do taghtasilū in 443 as per mugh'tasalun in 3842. You can verify for yourself, I don't want to cause a debate, I just want to share the ideas which if you agree, you can develop for yourself.

Peace

And let me elaborate further,

Most of commitment made according to the books dealing with other people, such as covenant, marriage, trading, etc. When you make acommitment, you need to know for sure what you are saying. Too much alcohol makes you get drunk, and you cannot control your mind and you won't remember what you are saying/promised

443 O you who believe, do not make commitment <salat> while you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying.

So if you commit to promising something you don't want and you subconsciously say yes, then it will lead to a fight,

591 The devil only wants to cause strife between you through intoxicants (khamr) and gambling, and to repel you away from remembering God and from the commitment <salat>. Will you be deterred?

So now you can see that salat in 591 is in the same context with salat in 443, and 56, since 56 is the explanation on how to do 443.

But if you are already under the influence of khamr, then 443 and 56 teach you to get rid of the influence of khamr by washing your face, hands and head with water, and you can also do physical activities such as jogging, so that you can be free from the influence of khamr that keeps you away. from remembering Allah and back to read the Quran as usual.

Now you have understood about prayer as a commitment.

However, we are expected to always maintain fair commitments in the best possible way. And here is one of them,

17110 Say "Call on God or call on the Almighty; by whichever you call on, to Him are the best names." And do not be openly/mention <tajhar> in your commitment <salat>, nor to be low (quiet); but seek a path in between.

tajhar = Jiim-ha-Ra = become plain/open/apparent/public/loud/discovered, become great/bulky, pleasingness/goodliness, clear out nearly/entirely, strove to overcome/surpass

It's not about the sound of your voice, but it's about how we place our commitments in various situations

If you remember about Pharaoh's wife who hid her faith, but showed it in action by picking up baby Moses, and here is another sample of 17110,

4028 And a believing man from among the people of Pharaoh, who had concealed his belief, said "Will you kill a man simply for saying 'My Lord is God', and he has come to you with proofs from your Lord? And if he is a liar, then his lie will be upon him, and if he is truthful, then some of what he is promising you will afflict you. For God does not guide any transgressor, liar."

He hid his faith but at the same time his actions show that he is a believer..

And lastly, here is another sample of the commitment (salat) universally understood by everyone, please read this verse carefully,

5106 O you who believe, witnessing shall be done if death is approaching one of you and a will is being made-by two who are equitable amongst you. Or, by two others from other than you if you have gone forth in the land and death is approaching. If you have doubt regarding them, then you will hold them after SALAT, and let them swear by God "We will not purchase with it any price, even if it was from a near relative, and we will not conceal the testimony of God, else we are of the sinners."

Let say that I'm travelling to another country and death is approaching while all the notary/attorney available to witness/notarize the will is not a prophet Muhammad follower like me (The verse above said, other than you)

If Salat is Namaz, then how am I gonna hold them after Salat?

If the word salat is something they are not familiar with or something that they don't understand, Should I teach them how to perform Namaz from standing to prostrations? I could be not in the good conditions when dead is approaching, and they don't necessarily want to do that. But surely they will understand what commitment is...

So the salat here is just their commitment to God that they will witnessing my will. Everyone will understand about it

Hope it helps brother.

Peace

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan

Yes you correct! Thanks…. Even in persian گناه have this meaning (گناه = جناح in persian)

Salam tilhawa…

That was a Thought provoking(i hope the word is correct cuz i used google translate) answer!
i am studying the meaning of salat in quran…. And i am almost sure that at least in some parts of quran salat doesnt mean prayer…. i think the thing that we call salat/namaz today is the verses 20130 3017-18

i will be so happy and thankful if you share your opinion on the meaning of salat in 56

Thanks….

Yes.. Brother...
Salat doesnt. Can ritual prayer in every occasion it occurs.. within quran it has various meaning.. But there is salat a prayer as well... For example... Phrases Salat and Zakath occur together.. For me it is not prayer at all...
But I am not sure the verses 4101-102 is something else other than prayer... In my understanding Salat in these verses are prayer even n chapter jumma.. It is also prayers.. Yes salat is commitment as well in many verses..

[Mahdi20]

Peace tilahwa …

Mentioning 5106 was great…. i will highlight this verse among other salat verses in my salat verses list

Peace jkhan…
Yes i agree with you that when salat came with zakat it doesnt mean prayer… may God help everyone to find the true meaning of quran

[jkhan]

Peace Tilihawa...

The verse 2177 has word Salat... Do you consider it mere commitment as well (i.e reading Quran and follow) while rest of them mentioned in the same verse are full of commitment to follow and practice. .

In case if you like to hear about my view .. I do take this verse where Salat appears as to establish morals/ethics and bringforth purification...

What's your take...

[tlihawa]

Salam Jkhan,

Peace Tilihawa...

The verse 2177 has word Salat... Do you consider it mere commitment as well (i.e reading Quran and follow) while rest of them mentioned in the same verse are full of commitment to follow and practice. .

In case if you like to hear about my view .. I do take this verse where Salat appears as to establish morals/ethics and bringforth purification...

What's your take...

Yes it will be the same in terms of translation. However, the full meaning will be based on the context of verses.

The actual word is "not turned away" but I simplify it as "commitment"

7531 falā saddaqa walā sallā
7532 walākin kadhaba watawallā

7531 For he did not believe nor salla
7532 But he denied and turned away.

Salla = not turned away

Regarding 2177, it still the same,

2177 ....and he upholds the commitment <aqama salata>, and come upon purification.. <wa atalzakata>

Yes you can say moral and ethics, as long as they inline with the context. Just try to match your understanding to all related verses

The most important to me is the output, that it should be able to bring good deeds and prevent evil.

I believe that the teachings of the Qur'an are teachings that prioritize action. That to prove our obedience to Allah is by doing good deeds and prevent evil to other human beings.

I always advise my children that deep knowledge of the Quran is useless if it is not implemented. Belief in Allah is not proven by words, but by actions, how we treat other humans as Allah has commanded. So that's why Salat or "not turned away" or commitment is very important.

and 2177 is good sample to work with.

Peace

[jkhan]

Peace brother..

Below your quote relevant to 17110-111

"It's not about the sound of your voice, but it's about how we place our commitments in various situations"

Above Two verses are very obvious there is definitely a difference . It is not merely reading Quran...

First instruction is to call Him Allah or Arrahman.. To read we always start bismillah Rahman Raheem is the first verse of quran.. But not mere Allah or Arrahman and by only one of them.. He clearly ask us to call by one of them or any other He has many names.. But by one name ONLY for salat.

Then we have to say.. Call Him as it is mentioned..
17111 Then "And SAY, "Praise to Allah , who has not taken a son and has had no partner in dominion and has no protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with glorification."
The above two verses is not reading Quran..

God commands and expect from believers after calling Him as Arrahman or Allah to state what is mentioned above.. It is clearly magnifying God at its best..

And you claim for this no voice is required.. That's not acceptable brother.. It has no support.
Do you think Muhamed and believers were ordered to do salat(read quran) silently since you say it's not about sound of voice
Then recollect verses like when mohamed was reciting quran group of Jinn listened.. Do you think voice doesn't matter.. Even if Salat is reading Quran..
The verse which says, don't approach salat until you know what you utter.. These are clear Arabic words in which words with voice should be spoken.. not whispering these things..
Even in verse 2458 these kids should have some kind of sign whether their parents are doing salat.. If no voice... Hope no physical book of quran as well .. Then what are they doing at the time of Fajr silently as commitment which children hardly be able to recognize to claim before salat Fajr permission .. This verse 2458 it indicates.. parents are in chamber and in privacy.. Most probably door is locked.. What commitment they were doing inside the chamber at the time of Fajr which has no sound...

Extra question.. Can you explain why God has put two separate verses in identical pattern in chapter 23 and 70 as "those who are humble in salat" and "those who guard salat" why not these two together as one verse..

Munafiq are STANDING in salat showing 4142 ..
Does that mean they are showing their salat(commitment) or does that mean they read Quran and show and they read and that also lazily.. For that sound doesn't matter?.. Did you notice at the end of the verse it says they remember God but little..

Yes commitment is one of the meanings of salat like salat is blessing as well.. Salat is support as well..
But why apply everywhere Salat as commitment..

Let's address chapter 62.. Why we need to leave business when it called for salat..cant we perform Salat while we do business (reading quran/commitment)..it shows it is different from merely reading Quran.. It needs time out from everything.. It has a contact with God direct.. Coz we call God's attention by calling like Ya Arrahman... It literally means we communicate.. Then magnifying him... It is in fact a contact.. But Reading Quran is for understanding..it is not communication.. You can do quran and do many others world things in between.. For example unread quran and I work.. But Salat cannot be done on that manner.. Start to end only salat.. Once it is completed do what you want to do.. The purpose of the revelation of Quran is to to understand and follow.. Reading Quran cannot be called salat..

Verse number 2239 ...
It says if you fear perform Salat on foot or riding.. But if you feel safe perform Salat in the manner He has taught you which actually we were not aware before it was taught.. 17110-111

So.. Does Allah need to teach us to read the Quran? Don't we know how to read? Clear Arabic book read it if one is literate..
Salat has been taught that we don't know .. BTW don't claim that this verse2"239 is not talking about Salat.. It's very clear it is continuing from verse 2238
So when in fear we can perform Salat walking or riding.. Same way when travel even shorten coz if fear of specifically disbelievers attack.. 2239 fear could be different type.. Like fear of animals etc.. There it was not said to shorten.
Why one has to do reading the Quran in fear ??..that's a logical question .. While the purpose of quran is to understand it and put in practice.. How can one understand in fear coz of disbelievrs attack or animal attack.. They may know what they utter if not intoxicated but understanding can't be done in fear.. So why read..
But if it is Salat as fixed time.. We can't skip.. We should remember God at any cost.. Even walking or riding or even by shortening.. Don't skip just coz of sickness or travelling or fear etc. . Coz it is communicating with God.. For which we don't know the benefit 629

I hope you also have something to say.. I always welcome your opinion and your knowledge.. Perhaps I may be guided by what you gonna reply.. Or you may ponder further about Salat out of commitment merely..

[tlihawa]

Salam Jkhan,

Peace brother..

Below your quote relevant to 17110-111

"It's not about the sound of your voice, but it's about how we place our commitments in various situations"

Above Two verses are very obvious there is definitely a difference . It is not merely reading Quran...

First instruction is to call Him Allah or Arrahman.. To read we always start bismillah Rahman Raheem is the first verse of quran.. But not mere Allah or Arrahman and by only one of them.. He clearly ask us to call by one of them or any other He has many names.. But by one name ONLY for salat.

Then we have to say.. Call Him as it is mentioned..
17111 Then "And SAY, "Praise to Allah , who has not taken a son and has had no partner in dominion and has no protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with glorification."
The above two verses is not reading Quran..

God commands and expect from believers after calling Him as Arrahman or Allah to state what is mentioned above.. It is clearly magnifying God at its best..

And you claim for this no voice is required.. That's not acceptable brother.. It has no support.

It's up to you brother. What you think there is no support, is not necessarily for me.

I already explained the reason why I chose Jiim-ha-Ra = become plain/open/apparent/public/loud/discovered, become great/bulky,
or proclaimed, for the reasons I have already mentioned.

If for example you feel the need to interpret it as sound so that your reading of the Quran can be heard by other people or jinn, I think that's fine.

Munafiq are STANDING in salat showing 4142 ..
Does that mean they are showing their salat(commitment) or does that mean they read Quran and show and they read and that also lazily.. For that sound doesn't matter?.. Did you notice at the end of the verse it says they remember God but little..

Let me show you the full context,

4138 Give news to the hypocrites that they will have a painful retribution.

4139 Those who take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers "Do they seek glory with them?" All glory belongs to God.

4140 And it has been sent down to you in the Book, that if you hear the revelations of God being rejected and mocked, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different narrative; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together.

4141 Those who linger and observe you, if you have a victory from God they say "Were we not with you?" And if the rejecters have success, they say "Did we not side with you and deter the believers from you?" God will judge between you on the Day of Resurrection, and God will not grant the rejecters any success over the believers.

4142 The hypocrites seek to deceive God, while He is deceiving them; and if they establish for commitment, they do so lazily, only to show the people; they do not remember God except very little.

Can you see it?

So these hypocrites sit on both sides. If victory is on the side of the believer, then the hypocrite will pretend to be on the side of the believer, and vice versa.

They wanted to deceive Allah, but it was Allah who deceived them. If they are asked to commit to the believers (Qamu ilal Salat), then they do it lazily, just to show to the believers as if they are committed to the believers, even though they are not.

As I said earlier, you have to take the whole context to understand what this commitment (salat) is all about. But once again, it's up to you.

Yes commitment is one of the meanings of salat like salat is blessing as well.. Salat is support as well..
But why apply everywhere Salat as commitment..

Because that's what I got. You can try your own understanding and put it in all the related verses to see if it fits or not

Let's address chapter 62.. Why we need to leave business when it called for salat..cant we perform Salat while we do business (reading quran/commitment)..it shows it is different from merely reading Quran.. It needs time out from everything.. It has a contact with God direct.. Coz we call God's attention by calling like Ya Arrahman... It literally means we communicate.. Then magnifying him... It is in fact a contact.. But Reading Quran is for understanding..it is not communication.. You can do quran and do many others world things in between.. For example unread quran and I work.. But Salat cannot be done on that manner.. Start to end only salat.. Once it is completed do what you want to do.. The purpose of the revelation of Quran is to to understand and follow.. Reading Quran cannot be called salat..

Again, please read the context first. But this requires an understanding in advance regarding Yaumil Jumuah. If you believe that Yaumil Jumuah is the sixth day of the week or Friday, then the context will not be met and nothing to explain here.

But if you understand Yaumil Jumuah in 629 = Yaumul Jam'i in 649, then you will know that Yaumil Jumuah is a day that hasn't yet to come. It is the last day or often also called the day of no buying and selling.

Now let me show you the verse,

629 yāayyuhā alladhīna āmanū idhā nūdiya lilṣṣalati min yawmi l-jumuʿati....

Say the meaning of salat is to pray. And we know that Yaumil Jumuah (the day of gatherig) is the last day, then the call is of course useless..
It's too late to pray when it's time for the gathering day (Yaumil Jumuah).

But pay attention to word "MIN" which I bolded in red in the verse above. This word is to prevent the meaning "at the day". So it should be "of the day".

If this is meant as "at the day" then the arabic writing should be Salatil Yaumil Jumuah. Salat at the day of gathering.

Like the words Salat in surah 2458 that you mentioned. Salatil Fajri = Salat at dawn and Salatil Ishaa = Salat at ishaa.

So here is my translation for 62 9 above,

629 O you who believe, when the call is made for the commitment <salat> of the day of gathering,

Regarding the context, you can reread what I wrote earlier about commitment of the day of the gathering.

This is all related to trade, and how to always make sure that our trade is always according to Allah's guidance. It's kind of regular audit.

I've often used this salat min yaumil jumuah to audit my business.

One was when I discovered that half of my merchandise was counterfeit. The choice was that I had to destroy these items, even though they were very smooth selling items, and a huge loss for me to bear. Alhamdullillah, Allah gave instructions to negotiating with the suppliers to repurchase the goods at the prices set by them. So I didn't need to destroy that.

So during the intenal audit as my commitment, I have to cease the trading and back to Quran words and fix everything that's not correct.
When everything is done, then I resume trading. (6210).

*This is a tremendous inner conflict, where I was confronted with huge but illegal profit gains, or doing it right. I need to re-read the verses of the Quran to convince me and strengthen my heart.

And there are many more internal audits that I did based on this Salata min yaumil jumuah.

And for the rest, I think you can use it to test the meaning of the Salat that you think is most suitable for you.

Peace