Rituals Prayers Methods - how to perform

Jafar

If salat is not the practised or established ritual, then why Quran attributed it to many previous prophets as if the ritual was the same from begin (Ibrahim and so on) and there is no need to mention how it is performed.

The "As If" is the keyword, as it's actually an assumption.

Daily ritualized prayer was established first in Judaism by the Sanhedrin/Council of Rabbis, few decades before Jesus was born (around 100 BCE). It was established as 3 times a day. Begin with ablution and so on, the closest in term of rituals regulation and mindset in comparation to today's Islam religion. Just like in Islam the words to recite are prescribed by the Rabbis.

https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_prayer

From the gospels it's described that Jesus sometimes participates in such Judaism praying group rituals, he entered a synagogue, join the congregation, and sometimes even came forward to explain the meanings of some verses in the scroll of Torah. It's understandable since Jesus mom, Mary was born in a "priestly" class (Aaronic sisterhood), thus society will also see him as among the 'priestly' class.

Yet he didn't stressed the importance of joining such congregation, he authored his own prayer now known as "Lord's prayer" where he even named God with different name, "Father" and not "YHVH" or "Adonai" as it was commonly known in Judaism. And he recommend his students to pray in isolation.

“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father"
-- Matthew 6

And he did the same thing, he spent many nights praying alone by himself...

Moving on...

Just like what happened in Islam and Christianity there is no single consensus on words to recite, timing, movement etc.. Every branches of Judaism developed their rites differently over the time.
Well to be honest, Islam and Christianity is also a sub branches of Judaism.

Even Jesus developed his own 'method of praying' as mentioned above for example.
Which is different compared to "standardized Judaism method" and most probably also different than compared to his own cousin (John) or even his own mom (Mary).

Nonetheless the view that Abraham does the exact same daily ritualized prayer as them DO NOT exist in Judaism and Christianity mindset. Such view only exist in the religion of Islam.

Wonder why...

Iyyaka

Put PRIDE element in and it will become ridiculous.
This is correct and others are false.
Mine is correct and others are false.
We are correct and they are false.
We are superior and they are inferior.

Yes Pride is a danger for a person who pray like for anyone else - not doing a ritualized and formal prayer and criticizing others for it may also be a form of pride.
It is a personal matter, one cannot generalize in my opinion.

The Quran warned us of 2 dangers about the ritual prayer depending on whether we practice it or not

"practicer"
The danger is to be only focused on the external and formal aspect of it

while neglecting their ritual Prayer,
who are full of ostentation/faste,
and refuse the necessities of life.

=> Your relationship with God should lead you to humility, and a relationship with others based on charity and compassion. Otherwise, Yes it is only pride..

"Non-practicer"
See only the external and formal aspect without understanding the interest of it.

When you call for the ritual Prayer, they take it as a mockery and a game. This is because they are people who do not understand.

Example
Face this direction when you pray, those who do not are hypocrites / kuffar / heathen / pagan / enemy of God / will be tortured / the unchosen / doomed to hell.

About the direction of the prayer, we just have to be consistent in our attitude.
If we take the Qur'an as our guide, then the direction of prayer has been mentioned in Surah 2. So, follow it, as much as you can.
Then, to each his own guide indeed.

hawk99

Salat is a good thing, both phyically and mentally. Contacting Allah
alone or with others is beautiful and I enjoy it very much. We can
fight/argue about the origins of contact with our lord, in the end
its a personal choice. We can contact our lord sitting, laying on our
sides, while riding or traditionally.

Allah knows best
God bless

peace

Jafar

Yes Pride is a danger for a person who pray like for anyone else

This one I somehow agree..
Although the word 'danger' correlate with FEAR which I found interesting...

Pride has an implication of attachment.
Attachment can be to anything, to any form of identification, way of praying, direction of praying, mantra of praying, frequency of praying, sect, religion, books, deities, idols, physical bodies and billions other form of identification.

Pride more often correlate with controlling others and control correlate with fear.
As the most effective means to control others is through fear.
In such way, Pride does spread fear and in effects invites fear as what goes around does comes around.

Can be easily observed for people with pride as they usually and easily sends out threat to others.

Example
Face this direction when you pray, those who do not are hypocrites / kuffar / heathen / pagan / enemy of God / will be tortured / the unchosen / doomed to hell.

Just a simple example among many..

Fusion

Dear Colleagues,

I have seen replies but am afraid no one actually talks about the exact Quran verses I quoted which points towards salat being a congregational prayer(at least Friday ones).

If this is a website to talk about Quran alone as The Guidance then we should also talk about trying to understand those verses in addition to what we feel private about religion as whole.

Regards

Jafar

If this is a website to talk about Quran alone as The Guidance

Quran alone? Or God alone?

SarahY

Hi Fusion,

You might like the works of Fazlur Rahman, he believes in the “living traditions” basically acts that have been passed on through generations that remain mostly or probably intact to how early muslims practised.

You will not find in the Quran step by step procedure of how to perform Salat. And people on this forum approach salat differently. So you will get varied responses probably not the answer you were looking for.

In terms of how the general muslim population prays, the one leading the prayer recites quran aloud, everything else is silent. Isn’t that interesting? Moreover, people do nawafal (supplementary) prayers which isn’t congregational even though they are in congregation.

For uniformity the one leading the prayer can state how they would pray. Prayer is for God’s remembrance 2014. 629 doesn’t explain how a congregation prayer is to be made.

Emre_1974tr

IN THE QURAN PRAYER, FASTING, HAC AND ZAKAT (With machine translation from the book "Religion in the Quran" written in Turkish)

https//translate.google.com/translate?sl=tr&tl=en&u=http//www.kurandakidin.com/2011/10/36-kuranda-inanc-konulari-namaz-zekat-oruc-ve-hac/

Fusion

Hi Fusion,

You might like the works of Fazlur Rahman, he believes in the “living traditions” basically acts that have been passed on through generations that remain mostly or probably intact to how early muslims practised.

You will not find in the Quran step by step procedure of how to perform Salat. And people on this forum approach salat differently. So you will get varied responses probably not the answer you were looking for.

In terms of how the general muslim population prays, the one leading the prayer recites quran aloud, everything else is silent. Isn’t that interesting? Moreover, people do nawafal (supplementary) prayers which isn’t congregational even though they are in congregation.

For uniformity, the one leading the prayer can state how they would pray. Prayer is for God’s remembrance 2014. 629 doesn’t explain how a congregation prayer is to be made.

I hear you and know what you saying. However, am not looking for a yes or no answer but to discuss deep dive.
I have provided verses from Quran which hint at congregational prayer. One other thing that puzzles is why the Quran provides detailed steps of ablution and not prayer ritual? at the same time asking believers to perform salat regularly at prescribed times and not to mention the Friday prayer as specific.

Thanks

tlihawa

Salam Fusion,

Dear Colleagues,

I have seen replies but am afraid no one actually talks about the exact Quran verses I quoted which points towards salat being a congregational prayer(at least Friday ones).

Regards

I have a very different opinion regarding Salat and I saw that it's not relevant to your question since I think you do believe that Salat is like Namaz and your question is about how to perform, right?

But I would suggest you to examine first the word Yaumil Jumu'ati in 629. Does it really means Friday or the sixth day of the week?

Let me collect these verses together with the same words means "The Day of Gathering" so you can draw your own conclusion,

427 And thus We have inspired to you a Qur'an in Arabic, so that you may warn the mother of towns and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Gathering <yaumal jam'i> that is inevitable. A group will be in Paradise, and a group in Hell.

The Day of Gathering here means something that's inevitable and need to be warned.. Does it mean Friday or sixth day of the week?

Let's look at another verse,

649 The Day when He will gather you < yawmal yajmaukum>; the Day of Gathering <liyawmil jam'i>; that is the Day of mutual gain/loss. And whoever believes in God and does good works, He will forgive his sins, and will admit him into estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. Such is the great triumph.

Here it is very clear that The Day of Gathering here is a day that has not come yet, because on this day all mankind will be gathered on the last day.
So in here the day of gathering is also not the Friday or sixth day of the week.

Now let's go back two chapters with the same verse number from 649 to 629,

629 yāayyuhā alladhīna āmanū idhā nūdiya lilṣṣalati min yawmi l-jumuʿati....

Most people would interpret yawmil jumu'ati <The Day of Gathering> here as Friday, or sixth day of the week.

But keep in mind that Friday's naming of the sixth day of the week is due to the interpretation of this verse. They randomly choose the sixth day to be agreed as yaumil jumuah or The Day of Gathering .

Maybe not random either, but most likely influenced by hadith which is based on competition with other belief, Sabbath for Jews and Sunday for Christian.

Let me show you the hadith,

Narrated Abu Huraira

I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (p.b.u.h) saying, "We (Muslims) are the last (to come) but (will be) the foremost on the Day of Resurrection though the former nations were given the Holy Scriptures before us. And this was their day (Friday) the celebration of which was made compulsory for them but they differed about it. So Allah gave us the guidance for it (Friday) and all the other people are behind us in this respect the Jews' (holy day is) tomorrow (i.e. Saturday) and the Christians' (is) the day after tomorrow (i.e. Sunday)."

How is it possible for the Jews to be behind when the week count starts at 1 (ahad)?

yawm alaHad means Day1 - Sunday (Christian)
yawm alithneen means Day 2 - Monday
yawm atthhulatha' means Day 3 - Tuesday
yawm alarbi3a' means Day 4 - Wednesday
yawm alkhamees means Day 5 - Thursday
yawm aljuma3a means Day of Gathering - Friday (Hadith)
yawm assabt means Day 7 - Saturday (Jews)

These day's name of the week are of course, related to numbers! Starting with Sunday as the first day of the week, the week mostly counts upward to seven. However the hadith ignores this fact and chooses the sixth day of the week (which should be named Yawm Alsittah or Day 6) changed the name to Yawm AlJumuah, just for the reason that "today comes before tomorrow, so we are better" ;D

But it is interesting to see another reason from the following hadith,

“The best day on which the sun has risen is Friday; on it Adam was created and on it he was made to enter Paradise.

On Friday, also, Adam was expelled from Paradise.

And the hour (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) will take place on no day other than Friday.” (Muslim)

It seems that they read the Taurat and knew that Adam was created on the sixth day, and they knew that actually Yaumil Jumuati was not the sixth day of the week but the last day or the day of resurrection. But some of them were not truly believers, and they said,

481 And they say "Obedience," but when they come out from being with you, a group of them prepares for other than what you have said, and God records what they planned. So turn away from them and put your trust in God. God is enough for your trust.

And then the meaning of Yawmil Jumuah shifted from the last day to the sixth day of the week.

Ok, back to 629.

Say the meaning of salat is to pray or namaz. And we know that Yaumil Jumuah (the day of gathering) is the last day, then the call for salat is of course useless.. It's too late to pray when it's time for the gathering day (Yaumil Jumuah) or the day of resurrection.

So how do we deal with this?

I have put a lot of my opinion regarding this in this forum. But this requires understanding that Salat is not a ritual form like namaz . You can find my old posts in here,

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596565.msg293617#msg293617

and in here regarding 629, just follow the discussion on this thread.

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611531.10

Peace

Iyyaka

Ok, back to 629.
Say the meaning of salat is to pray or namaz. And we know that Yaumil Jumuah (the day of gathering) is the last day, then the call for salat is of course useless.. It's too late to pray when it's time for the gathering day (Yaumil Jumuah) or the day of resurrection.

Peace,

reread the textual context of verse 9 by linking it to verses 10 and 11 and you will easily see that your understanding (in bold above) is false

O ye who had faith! When the call is proclaimed to the ritual Prayer on the Day of Assembly/gathering, hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic) That is best for you if ye but knew!
And when the ritual Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah and remember Allah frequently that ye may prosper.
But when they see some bargain or some pastime, they disperse headlong to it, and leave thee standing. Say "That which Allah has is better than any pastime or bargain! and Allah is the Best to provide (for all needs)."

good_logic

Just look at the context of the verses in surah 62. It has nothing to do with day of resurrection. But it has to do with a congregational day of "the salat"

To All Believers 69-11

O you who believe, when the Salat is announced on THE CONGREGATIONAL DAY, you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
يٰأَيُّهَا الَّذينَ ءامَنوا إِذا نودِىَ لِلصَّلوٰةِ مِن يَومِ الجُمُعَةِ فَاسعَوا إِلىٰ ذِكرِ اللَّهِ وَذَرُوا البَيعَ ذٰلِكُم خَيرٌ لَكُم إِن كُنتُم تَعلَمونَ
Once The Salat is completed, you may spread through the land to seek God's bounties-Back to business-, and continue to remember God frequently, that you may succeed.
فَإِذا قُضِيَتِ الصَّلوٰةُ فَانتَشِروا فِى الأَرضِ وَابتَغوا مِن فَضلِ اللَّهِ وَاذكُرُوا اللَّهَ كَثيرًا لَعَلَّكُم تُفلِحونَ
When some of them come across a business deal, or some entertainment, they rush to it and leave you standing! Say, "What God possesses is far better than the entertainment or the business. God is the best Provider."
وَإِذا رَأَوا تِجٰرَةً أَو لَهوًا انفَضّوا إِلَيها وَتَرَكوكَ قائِمًا قُل ما عِندَ اللَّهِ خَيرٌ مِنَ اللَّهوِ وَمِنَ التِّجٰرَةِ وَاللَّهُ خَيرُ الرّٰزِقينَ

Is this not during a day of the week ? do the days not repeat weekly? Or is one saying this is on a specific day only? What kind of business is going to hold you up on the day of resurrection?
What is this "the Salat" here?
It must be some congregational salat they met to do together during the day when they were working or selling or getting on with some daily tasks?
Then gone back to their business when it finished! Something to do with remembering GOD together!!

The only logical explanation in my opinion, is that the believers gathered together one day per week to do this salat together, It cannot have been once a year or on resurrection day or ... If there was a day of congregational prayer specifically for everyone to come together for the salat and the days of the week repeat ,then it must have been weekly.
Once we find out what "the Salat" is ,this will make more sense, at least it makes sense to me. One of "the Salat" every week was deemed important for all or the majority of the believers to gather together for commemoration/connection of/to GOD alone and for a powerful motivational and moral support of each other.. Done during the day when the majority if not everyone is out and about.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.

tlihawa

Salam Iyyaka,

Peace,

reread the textual context of verse 9 by linking it to verses 10 and 11 and you will easily see that your understanding (in bold above) is false

O ye who had faith! When the call is proclaimed to the ritual Prayer on the Day of Assembly/gathering, hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic) That is best for you if ye but knew!
And when the ritual Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah and remember Allah frequently that ye may prosper.
But when they see some bargain or some pastime, they disperse headlong to it, and leave thee standing. Say "That which Allah has is better than any pastime or bargain! and Allah is the Best to provide (for all needs)."

I've read all that, and I know exactly what I believe.

I respect Brother Fusion for asking about ritual prayers, and won't make this thread stray any further than he intended to ask.

Maybe you can explain further to him how about THE CONGREGATIONAL DAY,

How do you do the ritual?
How do you set the time? On what day? and others you think might useful for him.

Peace

Iyyaka

tlihawa, salam aleykoum wa rahmatoullah,

I've read all that, and I know exactly what I believe.

Ok so you prefer your belief rather than the reality and the textual fact.
I respect your choice and indeed, I have nothing to add to that

Maybe you can explain further to him how about THE CONGREGATIONAL DAY,
How do you do the ritual?
How do you set the time? On what day? and others you think might useful for him.

From the Quran AND Sura 62 we can know only 3 things about this ritual prayer

The recitation of the Quran (622) is a central element of this ritual prayer and this recitation is done standing (6211).
It is done on a weekday (629) => call/nūdiya to the community of believers to gather collectively.
The timing it cannot be in the evening because it is said in (6210) "you shall disperse through the land and seek the provisions of God" => Theme of trade.
And that's all. The rest is history, like the name of the inviolable months (known by the primary audience)

But if you expect to have all the details of this practice in the Quran, then I understand better why you feel compelled to distort the expression "yawmi l-jumuʿati" from its original meaning in this verse.
But, unfortunately, your understanding of this expression makes the text incomprehensible when you take verses 9,10 and 11 together.
Or, please feel free to explain how you understand what i put in bold from the verse 10 in my last post.

Peace.

Fusion

Dear All,

Many thanks to all those who reply and I am learning a lot. Let me tell you my fear.

So many Muslims offering ritual prayers for so many centuries, Azaan -call to prayer has been going on around the same time from minarets, Do we consider ALL OF THEM to be on the wrong side of God's Alone message? What if they are right 50%, that means I might be committing sin by not offering the must daily prayer?

Yes if someone tells me 100% of I know for sure say God ordered me to pray 10 times as ritual, I will do so. it's the uncertainty that kills me and I ask questions like Quran mentions Ablution but omit prayer (no one explained the actual context meaning of ablution verses then?)

In short, I started my journey as a Sunni Muslim into reading Quran alone and thinking that most of the hadiths are not possibly true but violent and cant be taken equal to Quran. And now being more lost than before? I do not pray like I used to before and If I pray I do not utter some words (like in tashhud, to Ale Rasol and Al Ibrahim) and I do not go to the mosque anymore, because I see many ills in common Muslims and I feel ni different in em going to a mosque or non-Muslims going to church or temples. because everyone is seeking god via vasta i.e through some path or a person and indulges with non-essential issues like where to put hands, who is right , must choose from 4 mazahib etc etc

Cheers

hawk99

. One other thing that puzzles is why the Quran provides detailed steps of ablution and not prayer ritual?

Thanks

Peace Fusion, lets agree first on our understanding of the word salat.

Sad-Lam-waw = prayer, supplication, petition, oration, eulogy, benediction, commendation, blessing, honor, magnify, bring forth, follow closely, walk/follow behind closely, to remain attached.
In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse’s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).
Central portion of the back, portion from where the tail of an animal comes out, the rump.

Mussalli is an Arabic name for boys that means “one who prays”, “one who performs the Salah prayer”.

So maybe you'll agree that the purpose of salat is to be in contact with our lord.
Based on the definition do you agree that the ways we contact our lord varies?

peace

Emre_1974tr

IN THE QURAN PRAYER, FASTING, HAC AND ZAKAT (With machine translation from the book "Religion in the Quran" written in Turkish)

https//translate.google.com/translate?sl=tr&tl=en&u=http//www.kurandakidin.com/2011/10/36-kuranda-inanc-konulari-namaz-zekat-oruc-ve-hac/

Quran giving all details...

Jafar

So maybe you'll agree that the purpose of salat is to be in contact with our lord.
Based on the definition do you agree that the ways we contact our lord varies?

There is a certain generic framework that we can follow.
Start with WHY and WHAT before going into the details of HOW or even WHEN.

From WHAT I would concur that indeed, it's making a 'connection'.

As for WHY, it's because the figure that you see in the mirror are temporary, so better make a connection to that who will survive even after the figure has become dysfunctional or dead.

Then HOW, there are variety of method.

One that intrigue me at the moment is the method of 'silencing one's mind', as the 'noisy mind' is part of that which will not survive death. If one try to silence the mind, one will find that the mind will not shut up, it will keep on thinking or saying things, like in the loop. One will then come into a realization of who is this person inside my mind that would not shut up although I have told him/her to shut up. The one who ordered the mind to shut up, is the one who will survive (physical) death. Some people named it as the 'divinity within'.

Iyyaka

One that intrigue me at the moment is the method of 'silencing one's mind', as the 'noisy mind' is part of that which will not survive death. If one try to silence the mind, one will find that the mind will not shut up, it will keep on thinking or saying things, like in the loop. One will then come into a realization of who is this person inside my mind that would not shut up although I have told him/her to shut up. The one who ordered the mind to shut up, is the one who will survive (physical) death. Some people named it as the 'divinity within'.

Peace,
I think that in meditation you can calm your mind or concentrate on an object/practice, but I don't think you can stop totally and durably the thoughts.
The goal is to not let yourself be captured by these thoughts without any positive or negative preconceived ideas about them (very hard..)
This is my modest contribution to my experience of meditation or what the experienced people have said about it.

Jafar

Peace,
I think that in meditation you can calm your mind or concentrate on an object/practice, but I don't think you can stop totally and durably the thoughts.
The goal is to not let yourself be captured by these thoughts without any positive or negative preconceived ideas about them (very hard..)
This is my modest contribution to my experience of meditation or what the experienced people have said about it.

The awareness that the mind is NOT ME (slight dis-identification with the mind) and also the attempt itself can be considered as a big progress.
Another trick is to count the words that appear in the mind.
Once attempted the mind will then be silent, as it's the one who do the counting.
The counting will be 0 until you release the mind to focus towards something else.