Rituals Prayers Methods - how to perform
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Dear All,
I would like to know your opinions about certain aspects of prayers and please my question is very technical in the sense rather spiritual.
I did search on this forum about these questions and clarifications but did not get any conclusive understanding.
For example, when talking about Salat, different versions of understanding appears, some say the word salat is NOT the ritual which muslims perform (the typical prayer - 5 times), but its more of generic word used in Quran for different perspectives.
However Quran does talk about the actual act of ritual in the sense of (qayam, ruko and sujod) hence I feel God does want the people to perform the ritual? If yes, there is no mention of how exactly ? but since these acts of worship are mentioned so often related to previous nations, I feel perhaps Quran does not see need to point out the actual steps (unlike Ablution where precise steps are mentioned)? why so? is it because its the same prayer (acts/steps) that arabs at the time of prophet knew about? and hence they all know how to perform?
I can understand the sensitive towards Hadiths from Quranic point of view, but the kind of prayer muslims are performing - which ever sects- the act of performance is largely remain same? (no of rakaat and other aspects)?
At the same time whats being said in thise prayers also remains largely undisputed. For example, the prayer to prophet and ahle bait after tashaud is being uttered by shia and sunni with exact words. However Quran does only speak of saying Durod to Prophet and not his family (this is something muslims added).I hope i have tried to explained my point to certain extent. My question is if there is any room for perfoming rituals being a Muslim, then how do you guys perform? from quranic aspect only? No of times, how many rakat, what to say? steps etc? or you just stand and indulge in Qayam rku and sujod and say what ever you want? in which case how is the concept of congressional prayer is explained because that should be conducted in a specific mannger to show the unity and symmetry.
Thank you
Regards
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peace,
This topic has been discussed many times but you are right there are variant views. Please remember that anyone can join a forum and post their view (regardless of their level of intellect or research). In other words you have to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Definition ritual
https//dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/rituala set of fixed actions and sometimes words performed regularly, especially as part of a ceremony
e.g.
Coffee and the newspaper are part of my morning ritual.
The birds were performing a complex mating ritual.For example brushing one's teeth every night before bed can be considered a ritual. There is nothing wrong with a ritual per se BUT if one is doing a ritual because they think it is a obligation from God then it becomes a little more complex, because then we have to ask what is the evidence behind it, especially if one is recommending others to do it (because recommending something that may not be from God and saying it is is very dangerous).
From my Quranic understanding, based on many years of research/debate, here is a brief summary
The Quran describes a regular/timed salat for the mumineen, e.g. a minimum of twice daily
In this regular/timed salat, cleanliness/ablution is a prerequisite . Among other reasons this is likely partly because it would frequently involve a communal gathering. It involves primarily reading/oration of The Quran, while the congregation listens, and bear in mind some chapters of Quran read like a petition/prayer / invoking blessings upon us/community / asking for forgiveness etc so it can include elements of that and also include glorification/praise/SaBiH (again remember simply reading Quran can be considered an act of SaBiH and parts of it read like praise/glorification anyway). Community issues could also be incorporated also, discussed in light of Quran etc.
There is no fixed format in detail - I believe this was left to the community to decide/enact as appropriate. However it should be noted that having no fixed format makes sense if we take it to mean as I have done above.
Some extend and interpret this to mean they can follow the precedent allegedly set by early Muslim communities that has passed down the generations to us, i.e. a ritual prayer in a set format. Once this is cleaned up a little as per Quran, e.g. to ensure other than God is not invoked etc then this could be acceptable. It would only be problematic in my mind if a person considered this the only acceptable format in the eyes of God or made claims that others must do it like this or they are going against God by doing it differently etc. Remember claiming something is from God, and especially commanding others in this way is very dangerous if one is wrong.Some things you mention such as "rakat", "ruku", "sujud" are either not linked with salat or only tangentially linked with the regular/timed salat
Background
https//mypercept.co.uk/articles/ -
My question is if there is any room for perfoming rituals being a Muslim, then how do you guys perform? from quranic aspect only? No of times, how many rakat, what to say? steps etc? or you just stand and indulge in Qayam rku and sujod and say what ever you want? in which case how is the concept of congressional prayer is explained because that should be conducted in a specific mannger to show the unity and symmetry.
Peace Fusion, on another thread I have put forth a suggestion to question the fundamental aspect of religion.
On this thread I share another suggestion with similar theme
Please ponder what is islam and muslim?
Is it really referring to a religion and an identity/label to those who are member of such religion?The topic on this thread is interesting because pondering about "Rituality of Shalat" is how actually my journey started.
If Mohammad was a Muslim, how did he performed his 'shalat'?
Did he really recite "I testify that Mohammad is the messenger of God"?
More than that did he really asked others to also recite the same thing, daily?Next come the part about Ibrahim,
If hew was a Muslim, did he really recite in the Tashahhud, a durood towards himself and also Mohammad? A durood towards a person that has not yet even being born yet?
It will then easily branches into another question
How can Ibrahim recite even the Fatiha since it was not even exist during his time?Which then lead to
How, when and by whom this shalat rituals was actually being invented? -
Salat involves, i think,
Remembering/reminding the good moral truths/messages from God
as it involves reading and learning verses the person should follow some discipline, like no alchohol consumption, cleaning and fixed time based on availability of the teacher/imam or if doing alone at the best possible available times.
In a way we made that more ritualistic now, but earlier i think it like spiritual reading, even should have involved establishing certain self disciplining rules and regulations to one's life, so to Establish Salat = learn verses/messages of good moral values
I think, the rituals are secondary and has little values may be invented to simplify the learning process.
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If the word 'shalat' is understood as 'establishing a connection'
And the backdrop of understanding is that God can be found within.Then use any methods that works for you to establish such connection.
There is no 'standardized method' even the idea of one, as proposed by religion is quite ridiculous.
The direction that you face also doesn't matter so does what words to recite or not to recite on whatever language. So does the timing.. choose the time that is appropriate for you.As comparison, the eastern tradition has a practice called 'meditation'.
Instead of 'reciting certain memorized words', the practitioners tried to silence their (monkey) noisy mind. They firmly believe through silencing the mind then the divine consciousness within themselves shall came through thus establishing a connection.Again I'm not saying that meditation is superior and/or inferior than praying.
If the objective is to establish a connection, then use any method that works and comfortable for you.
As what works for each are uniquely varied.There is no superior nor inferior way, correct nor incorrect way.
"The kingdom of God is not something people will be able to see and point to. Then came these striking words “Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.”
-- Luke 17 -
There is no 'standardized method' even the idea of one, as proposed by religion is quite ridiculous.
The direction that you face also doesn't matter so does what words to recite or not to recite on whatever language. So does the timing.. choose the time that is appropriate for you.Man is a social being. In the religious field, men need common practices and rituals that unite them and allow them to be together. I don't see how this is ridiculous. It just becomes ridiculous when the heart does not follow.
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Man is a social being. In the religious field, men need common practices and rituals that unite them and allow them to be together. I don't see how this is ridiculous. It just becomes ridiculous when the heart does not follow.
Put PRIDE element in and it will become ridiculous.
This is correct and others are false.
Mine is correct and others are false.
We are correct and they are false.
We are superior and they are inferior.Example
Face this direction when you pray, those who do not are hypocrites / kuffar / heathen / pagan / enemy of God / will be tortured / the unchosen / doomed to hell. -
Hello All,
I need to say comment or share few more.
If salat is not the practised or established ritual, then why Quran attributed it to many previous prophets as if the ritual was the same from begin (Ibrahim and so on) and there is no need to mention how it is performed.I like to have an understanding of the following verses if salat is NOT an established ritual.
629-10 (i believe it is quite evident that it means group prayer in a prescribed place)
O you who have faith! When the call is made for prayer on Friday, hurry toward the remembrance of God, and leave all business. That is better for you, should you know. And when the prayer is finished, disperse through the land and seek God's grace, and remember God greatly so that you may be successful.2144
We have certainly seen the turning of your face, , toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-haram. And wherever you are, turn your faces toward it . Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.Regards
So I belive its the same prayer or less - pryer of Ibrahim that was asked from all subequent prophets
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If salat is not the practised or established ritual, then why Quran attributed it to many previous prophets as if the ritual was the same from begin (Ibrahim and so on) and there is no need to mention how it is performed.
The "As If" is the keyword, as it's actually an assumption.
Daily ritualized prayer was established first in Judaism by the Sanhedrin/Council of Rabbis, few decades before Jesus was born (around 100 BCE). It was established as 3 times a day. Begin with ablution and so on, the closest in term of rituals regulation and mindset in comparation to today's Islam religion. Just like in Islam the words to recite are prescribed by the Rabbis.
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_prayer
From the gospels it's described that Jesus sometimes participates in such Judaism praying group rituals, he entered a synagogue, join the congregation, and sometimes even came forward to explain the meanings of some verses in the scroll of Torah. It's understandable since Jesus mom, Mary was born in a "priestly" class (Aaronic sisterhood), thus society will also see him as among the 'priestly' class.
Yet he didn't stressed the importance of joining such congregation, he authored his own prayer now known as "Lord's prayer" where he even named God with different name, "Father" and not "YHVH" or "Adonai" as it was commonly known in Judaism. And he recommend his students to pray in isolation.
“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men … but when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father"
-- Matthew 6And he did the same thing, he spent many nights praying alone by himself...
Moving on...
Just like what happened in Islam and Christianity there is no single consensus on words to recite, timing, movement etc.. Every branches of Judaism developed their rites differently over the time.
Well to be honest, Islam and Christianity is also a sub branches of Judaism.Even Jesus developed his own 'method of praying' as mentioned above for example.
Which is different compared to "standardized Judaism method" and most probably also different than compared to his own cousin (John) or even his own mom (Mary).Nonetheless the view that Abraham does the exact same daily ritualized prayer as them DO NOT exist in Judaism and Christianity mindset. Such view only exist in the religion of Islam.
Wonder why...
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Put PRIDE element in and it will become ridiculous.
This is correct and others are false.
Mine is correct and others are false.
We are correct and they are false.
We are superior and they are inferior.Yes Pride is a danger for a person who pray like for anyone else - not doing a ritualized and formal prayer and criticizing others for it may also be a form of pride.
It is a personal matter, one cannot generalize in my opinion.The Quran warned us of 2 dangers about the ritual prayer depending on whether we practice it or not
- "practicer"
The danger is to be only focused on the external and formal aspect of it
while neglecting their ritual Prayer,
who are full of ostentation/faste,
and refuse the necessities of life.=> Your relationship with God should lead you to humility, and a relationship with others based on charity and compassion. Otherwise, Yes it is only pride..
- "Non-practicer"
See only the external and formal aspect without understanding the interest of it.
When you call for the ritual Prayer, they take it as a mockery and a game. This is because they are people who do not understand.
Example
Face this direction when you pray, those who do not are hypocrites / kuffar / heathen / pagan / enemy of God / will be tortured / the unchosen / doomed to hell.About the direction of the prayer, we just have to be consistent in our attitude.
If we take the Qur'an as our guide, then the direction of prayer has been mentioned in Surah 2. So, follow it, as much as you can.
Then, to each his own guide indeed. - "practicer"
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Salat is a good thing, both phyically and mentally. Contacting Allah
alone or with others is beautiful and I enjoy it very much. We can
fight/argue about the origins of contact with our lord, in the end
its a personal choice. We can contact our lord sitting, laying on our
sides, while riding or traditionally.Allah knows best
God blesspeace
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Yes Pride is a danger for a person who pray like for anyone else
This one I somehow agree..
Although the word 'danger' correlate with FEAR which I found interesting...Pride has an implication of attachment.
Attachment can be to anything, to any form of identification, way of praying, direction of praying, mantra of praying, frequency of praying, sect, religion, books, deities, idols, physical bodies and billions other form of identification.Pride more often correlate with controlling others and control correlate with fear.
As the most effective means to control others is through fear.
In such way, Pride does spread fear and in effects invites fear as what goes around does comes around.Can be easily observed for people with pride as they usually and easily sends out threat to others.
Example
Face this direction when you pray, those who do not are hypocrites / kuffar / heathen / pagan / enemy of God / will be tortured / the unchosen / doomed to hell.Just a simple example among many..
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Dear Colleagues,
I have seen replies but am afraid no one actually talks about the exact Quran verses I quoted which points towards salat being a congregational prayer(at least Friday ones).
If this is a website to talk about Quran alone as The Guidance then we should also talk about trying to understand those verses in addition to what we feel private about religion as whole.
Regards
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Hi Fusion,
You might like the works of Fazlur Rahman, he believes in the “living traditions” basically acts that have been passed on through generations that remain mostly or probably intact to how early muslims practised.
You will not find in the Quran step by step procedure of how to perform Salat. And people on this forum approach salat differently. So you will get varied responses probably not the answer you were looking for.
In terms of how the general muslim population prays, the one leading the prayer recites quran aloud, everything else is silent. Isn’t that interesting? Moreover, people do nawafal (supplementary) prayers which isn’t congregational even though they are in congregation.
For uniformity the one leading the prayer can state how they would pray. Prayer is for God’s remembrance 2014. 629 doesn’t explain how a congregation prayer is to be made.
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IN THE QURAN PRAYER, FASTING, HAC AND ZAKAT (With machine translation from the book "Religion in the Quran" written in Turkish)
https//translate.google.com/translate?sl=tr&tl=en&u=http//www.kurandakidin.com/2011/10/36-kuranda-inanc-konulari-namaz-zekat-oruc-ve-hac/
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Hi Fusion,
You might like the works of Fazlur Rahman, he believes in the “living traditions” basically acts that have been passed on through generations that remain mostly or probably intact to how early muslims practised.
You will not find in the Quran step by step procedure of how to perform Salat. And people on this forum approach salat differently. So you will get varied responses probably not the answer you were looking for.
In terms of how the general muslim population prays, the one leading the prayer recites quran aloud, everything else is silent. Isn’t that interesting? Moreover, people do nawafal (supplementary) prayers which isn’t congregational even though they are in congregation.
For uniformity, the one leading the prayer can state how they would pray. Prayer is for God’s remembrance 2014. 629 doesn’t explain how a congregation prayer is to be made.
I hear you and know what you saying. However, am not looking for a yes or no answer but to discuss deep dive.
I have provided verses from Quran which hint at congregational prayer. One other thing that puzzles is why the Quran provides detailed steps of ablution and not prayer ritual? at the same time asking believers to perform salat regularly at prescribed times and not to mention the Friday prayer as specific.Thanks
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Salam Fusion,
Dear Colleagues,
I have seen replies but am afraid no one actually talks about the exact Quran verses I quoted which points towards salat being a congregational prayer(at least Friday ones).
Regards
I have a very different opinion regarding Salat and I saw that it's not relevant to your question since I think you do believe that Salat is like Namaz and your question is about how to perform, right?
But I would suggest you to examine first the word Yaumil Jumu'ati in 629. Does it really means Friday or the sixth day of the week?
Let me collect these verses together with the same words means "The Day of Gathering" so you can draw your own conclusion,
427 And thus We have inspired to you a Qur'an in Arabic, so that you may warn the mother of towns and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Gathering <yaumal jam'i> that is inevitable. A group will be in Paradise, and a group in Hell.
The Day of Gathering here means something that's inevitable and need to be warned.. Does it mean Friday or sixth day of the week?
Let's look at another verse,
649 The Day when He will gather you < yawmal yajmaukum>; the Day of Gathering <liyawmil jam'i>; that is the Day of mutual gain/loss. And whoever believes in God and does good works, He will forgive his sins, and will admit him into estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. Such is the great triumph.
Here it is very clear that The Day of Gathering here is a day that has not come yet, because on this day all mankind will be gathered on the last day.
So in here the day of gathering is also not the Friday or sixth day of the week.Now let's go back two chapters with the same verse number from 649 to 629,
629 yāayyuhā alladhīna āmanū idhā nūdiya lilṣṣalati min yawmi l-jumuʿati....
Most people would interpret yawmil jumu'ati <The Day of Gathering> here as Friday, or sixth day of the week.
But keep in mind that Friday's naming of the sixth day of the week is due to the interpretation of this verse. They randomly choose the sixth day to be agreed as yaumil jumuah or The Day of Gathering .
Maybe not random either, but most likely influenced by hadith which is based on competition with other belief, Sabbath for Jews and Sunday for Christian.
Let me show you the hadith,
Narrated Abu Huraira
I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (p.b.u.h) saying, "We (Muslims) are the last (to come) but (will be) the foremost on the Day of Resurrection though the former nations were given the Holy Scriptures before us. And this was their day (Friday) the celebration of which was made compulsory for them but they differed about it. So Allah gave us the guidance for it (Friday) and all the other people are behind us in this respect the Jews' (holy day is) tomorrow (i.e. Saturday) and the Christians' (is) the day after tomorrow (i.e. Sunday)."
How is it possible for the Jews to be behind when the week count starts at 1 (ahad)?
- yawm alaHad means Day1 - Sunday (Christian)
- yawm alithneen means Day 2 - Monday
- yawm atthhulatha' means Day 3 - Tuesday
- yawm alarbi3a' means Day 4 - Wednesday
- yawm alkhamees means Day 5 - Thursday
- yawm aljuma3a means Day of Gathering - Friday (Hadith)
- yawm assabt means Day 7 - Saturday (Jews)
These day's name of the week are of course, related to numbers! Starting with Sunday as the first day of the week, the week mostly counts upward to seven. However the hadith ignores this fact and chooses the sixth day of the week (which should be named Yawm Alsittah or Day 6) changed the name to Yawm AlJumuah, just for the reason that "today comes before tomorrow, so we are better" ;D
But it is interesting to see another reason from the following hadith,
“The best day on which the sun has risen is Friday; on it Adam was created and on it he was made to enter Paradise.
On Friday, also, Adam was expelled from Paradise.
And the hour (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) will take place on no day other than Friday.” (Muslim)
It seems that they read the Taurat and knew that Adam was created on the sixth day, and they knew that actually Yaumil Jumuati was not the sixth day of the week but the last day or the day of resurrection. But some of them were not truly believers, and they said,
481 And they say "Obedience," but when they come out from being with you, a group of them prepares for other than what you have said, and God records what they planned. So turn away from them and put your trust in God. God is enough for your trust.
And then the meaning of Yawmil Jumuah shifted from the last day to the sixth day of the week.
Ok, back to 629.
Say the meaning of salat is to pray or namaz. And we know that Yaumil Jumuah (the day of gathering) is the last day, then the call for salat is of course useless.. It's too late to pray when it's time for the gathering day (Yaumil Jumuah) or the day of resurrection.
So how do we deal with this?
I have put a lot of my opinion regarding this in this forum. But this requires understanding that Salat is not a ritual form like namaz . You can find my old posts in here,
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596565.msg293617#msg293617
and in here regarding 629, just follow the discussion on this thread.
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611531.10
Peace
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Ok, back to 629.
Say the meaning of salat is to pray or namaz. And we know that Yaumil Jumuah (the day of gathering) is the last day, then the call for salat is of course useless.. It's too late to pray when it's time for the gathering day (Yaumil Jumuah) or the day of resurrection.Peace,
reread the textual context of verse 9 by linking it to verses 10 and 11 and you will easily see that your understanding (in bold above) is false
- O ye who had faith! When the call is proclaimed to the ritual Prayer on the Day of Assembly/gathering, hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic) That is best for you if ye but knew!
- And when the ritual Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah and remember Allah frequently that ye may prosper.
- But when they see some bargain or some pastime, they disperse headlong to it, and leave thee standing. Say "That which Allah has is better than any pastime or bargain! and Allah is the Best to provide (for all needs)."
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Just look at the context of the verses in surah 62. It has nothing to do with day of resurrection. But it has to do with a congregational day of "the salat"
To All Believers 69-11
O you who believe, when the Salat is announced on THE CONGREGATIONAL DAY, you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
يٰأَيُّهَا الَّذينَ ءامَنوا إِذا نودِىَ لِلصَّلوٰةِ مِن يَومِ الجُمُعَةِ فَاسعَوا إِلىٰ ذِكرِ اللَّهِ وَذَرُوا البَيعَ ذٰلِكُم خَيرٌ لَكُم إِن كُنتُم تَعلَمونَ
Once The Salat is completed, you may spread through the land to seek God's bounties-Back to business-, and continue to remember God frequently, that you may succeed.
فَإِذا قُضِيَتِ الصَّلوٰةُ فَانتَشِروا فِى الأَرضِ وَابتَغوا مِن فَضلِ اللَّهِ وَاذكُرُوا اللَّهَ كَثيرًا لَعَلَّكُم تُفلِحونَ
When some of them come across a business deal, or some entertainment, they rush to it and leave you standing! Say, "What God possesses is far better than the entertainment or the business. God is the best Provider."
وَإِذا رَأَوا تِجٰرَةً أَو لَهوًا انفَضّوا إِلَيها وَتَرَكوكَ قائِمًا قُل ما عِندَ اللَّهِ خَيرٌ مِنَ اللَّهوِ وَمِنَ التِّجٰرَةِ وَاللَّهُ خَيرُ الرّٰزِقينَIs this not during a day of the week ? do the days not repeat weekly? Or is one saying this is on a specific day only? What kind of business is going to hold you up on the day of resurrection?
What is this "the Salat" here?
It must be some congregational salat they met to do together during the day when they were working or selling or getting on with some daily tasks?
Then gone back to their business when it finished! Something to do with remembering GOD together!!The only logical explanation in my opinion, is that the believers gathered together one day per week to do this salat together, It cannot have been once a year or on resurrection day or ... If there was a day of congregational prayer specifically for everyone to come together for the salat and the days of the week repeat ,then it must have been weekly.
Once we find out what "the Salat" is ,this will make more sense, at least it makes sense to me. One of "the Salat" every week was deemed important for all or the majority of the believers to gather together for commemoration/connection of/to GOD alone and for a powerful motivational and moral support of each other.. Done during the day when the majority if not everyone is out and about.
GOD bless you all.
Peace.
