Rituals Prayers Methods - how to perform
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Thank you for your reply. Your strong statements made me speechless, I do not know what to believe any more.
I understand that hadiths are mostly fabricated, however historically what were the prophet and his companions doing in terms of prayers and days of the week esp Friday. I mean Quran and Islam were actually started with the prophet and the his companions followed and then after 200 years some one decided to write books called hadiths to explain the lives and calls of the prophet and his followers. Which means essentially we will never know how the prophet and his companions have understood Quran and how they have followed it in their lives.Added later.
What am trying to understand is that during the course of Quran being sent down to the prophet, the people then, did they follow the Quran as the traditional Muslims believe or they followed as you and some of the folks who followed and understand Quran the way as seen in many posts here? In the later case, these Muslims may not be doing rituals or Friday prayers and so on.. the point is leave hadiths.. are there no historical evidences to reflect the lives of Arabs during the time of prophet ( from following message in essence). Now one can not completely reject hadiths as that would be naive, especially where historic incidents are mentioned. Why because we have evidences of early Arabs shaping the Islamic world through conquests and surely you may argue that islam never asked to to indulge in such forcing the religion as institution but then it means one thing that people who lived with the prophet also taken Quran literally and followed it wrongly similar to what Muslims have done so far in majority. Your thoughts plsCheers
Peace fusion..
Quran itself a hadith book.. Hadith books other than of God is not necessary for our salvation coz it is human imagination... That's so fragile..
If you need to know history and if read hadith books, that won't give you a clear picture... Coz hadiths are mostly fantasy.. Ancient history is always mystry.. So don't hunt yo research how Mohamed and his companion prayed..Mohamed didn't know how Isa OR musa OR Ibrahim prayed.. Mohamed was not given anything other than this Quran to perform his Salat.. If he found a way to perform salat within this same book then why others cannot find a way.. Unless meaning of Arabic drastically changed compared to what they understood then anf what we understand now with modern Arabic..
Anyhow salat is to remember God and applaud or rather praise God... It is needless to explain step by step how to praise the creator.. Unless a d otherwise detailed in Quran.. Take it simple.. Just praise your Lord.. God is is merciful.. He won't discard your prayers.. -
Well said because I always wonder how a converted would offer prayers in Arabic.
Wanted to further understand how to reconcile what you both affirmed with the understanding of the following verse7320
, your Lord is well aware that you sometimes spend nearly two-thirds of the night at prayer––sometimes half, sometimes a third––as do some of your followers. God determines the division of night and day. He knows that you will not be able to keep a measure of it and He has relented towards all of you, so recite as much of the Quran as is easy for you. He knows that some of you will be sick, some of you travelling through the land seeking God’s bounty, some of you fighting in God’s way recite as much as is easy for you, keep up the prayer, pay the prescribed alms, and make God a good loan. Whatever good you store up for yourselves will be improved and increased for you. Ask God for His forgiveness, He is most forgiving, most merciful.Thank you
Peace Fusion
The beautiful ayat of 7320 addressed to Muhammad and the rest of us noting
Muhammads great devotion to our creator is an inspiration to us all and we devotees
should do our best to be in contact with our lord for our benefit and understand
the reward that comes with such devotion.Indeed, your Lord knows, , that you stand almost two
thirds of the night or half of it or a third of it, and a group of those with you. And Allah
determines the night and the day. He has known that you will not be
able to do it and has turned to you in forgiveness, so recite what is easy of the Qur'an.
He has known that there will be among you those who are ill and others traveling throughout
the land seeking of the bounty of Allah and others fighting for the cause of Allah.
So recite what is easy from it and establish prayer and give zakah and loan Allah a goodly loan.
And whatever good you put forward for yourselves - you will find it with Allah. It is better and
greater in reward. And seek forgiveness of Allah. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.God bless you
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Something similar here
http//islam-and-muslims.com/islamic-books-online.htmlThe Development Of Islamic Ritual
Editor G. R. Hawting
Excellent articles about salat (called 'prayer' in early Islam
www.scribd.com/doc/37518694/Uri-Rubin-Morning-and-Evening-Prayers-in-early-Islam-by-muslims
http//urirubin.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/docs/Morningreduced.86230109.pdfThanks, any references to khawarij and mutazilah?
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Quran
3321 Indeed, in the Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example for whoever has hope in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah often.
480 He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.
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Salam Fusion,
Thank you for your reply. Your strong statements made me speechless, I do not know what to believe any more.
Sorry for late reply ...Regarding "strong statements" actually I was just stating the fact that "Friday" is just a name given to a particular day in our current human consensus 7 day per week and hence we cannot say it is God's command to perform Friday prayer.
I understand that hadiths are mostly fabricated,
Yes, sahih hadith books are massively corrupted and highly unreliable as representative of what God's messenger taught us.
however historically what were the prophet and his companions doing in terms of prayers and days of the week esp Friday.
If we already understand that "Friday" is arbitrary by human consensus, then one thing for sure is the so called Friday prayer cannot be God's command as it would mean we are "forcing" God to follow our human consensus. Please note that I am not saying it is wrong to follow human consensus of 7 day per week. The wrong part is when we attribute holiness to one of the day in a week (Friday).
I mean Quran and Islam were actually started with the prophet and the his companions followed
Islam is commonly understood as a label of specific religion which was started with prophet Muhammad.
Verily, the religion with God is Islam, and those who were given the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in reckoning.
The problem with taking Islam as label of specific religion started with prophet Muhammad is it creates a lot of disputes regarding what Islam is since Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, Ahmadiya, etc are all claiming that their religion is Islam. Even some terrorists are claiming that their religion is Islam. This is in contrast with 319 in which we are told by God that those who were given The Book dispute only after knowledge came to them.
Since Quran is in Arabic, we should translate the word Islam in 319.
Verily, the system with God is peacemaking, and those who were given the Book did not dispute except after the knowledge came to them out of jealousy between them. And whoever rejects the revelations of God, then God is swift in reckoning.
Now we have a better understanding of 319. God is telling us that what we are obligated to do is peacemaking. So if we say that peacemaking is what we are obligated to do, then nobody will dispute it. Those who were given The Book will agree that indeed peacemaking is our obligation. But the moment we tell those who were given The Book that Islam is peacemaking, then they will start disputing out of jealousy (sunni will be disputing that Islam is all about following sahih hadith books, shia will be disputing that Islam is all about following divinely appointed imams, etc - other than this is not Islam). They are jealous because Islam as peacemaking turns out to be universal concept which God makes obligation to every single human (and not started with prophet Muhammad - the obligation has always been there). They are jealous because this would mean their group no longer becomes "the favourite" in God's side.
This understanding that Islam is peacemaking fits perfectly in all occurrences of word Islam in Quran.
and then after 200 years some one decided to write books called hadiths to explain the lives and calls of the prophet and his followers. Which means essentially we will never know how the prophet and his companions have understood Quran and how they have followed it in their lives.
Sahih hadith books are books that prophet Muhammad never want us to read. Prophet Muhammad is victorious so his enemies could not prevent him from writing "Sahih Prophet Muhammad". Reading "Sahih Prophet Muhammad" which is written, authorized, verified, and circulated by the prophet Muhammad himself would be much more valid than reading sahih hadith books which are hearsay, written only around 200 years after the demise of the prophet, and never authorized by the prophet himself. Yet, the fact remains prophet Muhammad only left Quran. Then why are seeking books that prophet Muhammad himself never want us to read?
Added later.
What am trying to understand is that during the course of Quran being sent down to the prophet, the people then, did they follow the Quran as the traditional Muslims believe or they followed as you and some of the folks who followed and understand Quran the way as seen in many posts here? In the later case, these Muslims may not be doing rituals or Friday prayers and so on.. the point is leave hadiths.. are there no historical evidences to reflect the lives of Arabs during the time of prophet ( from following message in essence). Now one can not completely reject hadiths as that would be naive, especially where historic incidents are mentioned. Why because we have evidences of early Arabs shaping the Islamic world through conquests and surely you may argue that islam never asked to to indulge in such forcing the religion as institution but then it means one thing that people who lived with the prophet also taken Quran literally and followed it wrongly similar to what Muslims have done so far in majority. Your thoughts plsAnd as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet-human and Jinn devils-to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
Let's not forget that we are commanded to disregard their fabrications.
When God commands us to disregard their fabrications, there must be reason behind it.
By disregarding sahih hadith books, actually I can learn much more from sahih hadith books compared to when I regard them. To illustrate this, if I regard hearsay as hearsay then I can learn a lot what the hearsay is trying to achieve, the context surrounding the hearsay, what the hearsay is trying to distort, what is the motive to fabricate the hearsay, etc. But when I regard hearsay as true information then it would lead me to wrong conclusion.
Wassalam,
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Salam Athar2022,
Quran
3321 Indeed, in the Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example for whoever has hope in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah often.
480 He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.
Agree with the verses you quoted.
What Sunnis usually fail to understand is the excellent example is not supposed to be found in sahih hadith books. From sahih hadith books, actually I can show many horrible examples of "the messenger of Allah".
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https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611629.0
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I just quoted the Orders of Almighty, did not say anything else, lets not impose our thinking on others, lets follow the Quran with an open mind
Here are the verses again, very clear
Quran
3321 Indeed, in the Messenger of Allah you have an excellent example for whoever has hope in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah often.
480 He who obeys the Messenger has obeyed Allah ; but those who turn away - We have not sent you over them as a guardian.
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Peace ade_cool
Indeed the verses are telling us most of what we need to know
3321 says we should follow the example of the messenger in having hope in Allah and remember Allah often i.e follow the message he brought.
480 says to obey the messenger is to obey Allah and to obey Allah is to follow the message from Allah he brought. i.e Qoran.
Delivering the Quran was such a momentous and noble mission that the Prophet did not have any time to do anything else. Moreover, the Prophet was enjoined in the strongest words from issuing any religious teachings besides the Quran (6938-47). He was even enjoined from explaining the Quran (7515-19) - God is the only teacher of the Quran (551-2) and the Quran is the best Hadith (3923 & 456).
These Quranic facts are manifested in the historical reality that the words and actions (Hadith & Sunna) attributed to the Prophet did not appear until many years after his death. The Quran has prophesied the fabrication of Hadith and Sunna by the Prophet's enemies (6112-115). The Quran teaches us that it was God's will to permit the invention of Hadith and Sunna to serve as criteria for exposing those who hijack GOD s authority and follow other than the message of Allah Alone.
Or did the prophet leave books of hadiths and sunna to be written down as well as qoran?As for idolising the prophet, did Allah order it? where? I cannot find it but I can find what the prophet will say
The messenger* said, "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Ya Allah guide us to the right path,
The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have earned Your anger or of those who are astray.
Aameen.Please read the Original text that is in Arabic, Alhamdulillah, if Allah had not preserved this Book, people would have changed it according to their needs, May Allah save us all from deviation, specially myself first, Aameen.
Quran 3321
لَّقَدۡ كَانَ لَكُمۡ فِى رَسُولِ ٱللَّهِ أُسۡوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ۬ لِّمَن كَانَ يَرۡجُواْ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلۡيَوۡمَ ٱلۡأَخِرَ وَذَكَرَ ٱللَّهَ كَثِيرً۬ا (٢١)Quran 480
مَّن يُطِعِ ٱلرَّسُولَ فَقَدۡ أَطَاعَ ٱللَّهَۖ وَمَن تَوَلَّىٰ فَمَآ أَرۡسَلۡنَـٰكَ عَلَيۡهِمۡ حَفِيظً۬ا (٨٠)Ya Allah guide us all to the straight path,
correct me where I am wrong and correct others where they are, Aameen.The words "Atee-Allah-wa-Atee-ur-Rasul" "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger" are repeated again and again in the Quran.
"Obey Allah AND obey the Messenger"
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Why did GOD not say to obey the "nabi"/prophet in Qoran?
It is always obey the messenger!If we ponder all the verses properly we find that there is a very good reason.
The Nabi/prophet can only be messenger when he is delivering the message but he is a nabi even when not delivering a message in between.If there was no message to deliver, he will not be the messenger.So the messenger only delivers the message of GOD..i.e GOD s words not his own words. GOD s messenger has only the message of GOD not his message or anyone else s .So what is GOD s message to us? Men s books or GOD s book?
Is GOD s message not Qoran only?So obey the messenger is obey the message of GOD only.
GOD is always precise and accurate..
When GOD wants us to obey any authority, it is on everyday social matters like parents experts,etc... not for our salvation. GOD is the only authority for our deen/salvation that is why he wants us to obey only the message /Qoran brought by the messenger.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Salam,
Hope you are doing good by the grace of Allah, Insha-Allah.
-The question here is why not just "Obey Allah" and why "Obey Allah AND Obey the Messenger" ?
-Why Quran orders that in the life of the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) we have an excellent example to follow ?Coming to the topic "Rituals Prayers Methods - how to perform"
There are orders in the Quran
Quran 243
Bow down with those who bow down.
Quran 1587
And We have certainly given you, , seven of the often repeated and the great Quran.
Quran 3356
Surely, Allah and His angels send blessings to the Prophet. O you who believe, do pray Allah to bless him, and send your Salam to him in abundance.We have been offering Salah behind Rasul-Allah(S.A.W.W) from the beginning.
The Prophet stood (Qiyam), did the Ruku (bowing down), did the Sajdah (prostration).So many sects in Islam, not a single of them denies it, NONE.
There are Christians who deny the Trinity but No Muslim denies the practice of Salah, there maybe a slight variation but the general rules are the same.
The order on Salah has been repeated again and again in the Quran.Now ponder upon this Verse of the Quran (very very important)
The word Dua in Quran stands for praying, Salah stands for the Worship of Allah.Quran 1440
رَبِّ ٱجۡعَلۡنِى مُقِيمَ ٱلصَّلَوٰةِ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِىۚ رَبَّنَا وَتَقَبَّلۡ دُعَآءِ (٤٠)
My Lord, make me steadfast in Salah, and my offspring as well. And, Our Lord, grant my Dua.1440, I will remember these numbers now for the rest of my life Insha-Allah, there are 1440 minutes in 24 hours, Subhan-Allah.
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Let me clarify so that there will be no misunderstanding about what I am saying
GOD s messenger had not brought a message called sunna and hadiths.
The words of the Quran speak in 1964, saying,
We do not come down except by the command of your Lord. To Him belongs our past, our future, and everything between them. Your Lord is never forgetful.
God did not forget, for example, to tell us about sunna and hadith But you do not find them anywhere in Quran given to the messenger. Yet, the fabricators of such false doctrine as Hadith & Sunna have come up with religious teachings dictating orders never authorised by GOD.
The Quran proclaims that it is complete, perfect, and fully detailed (619, 38, 114, 115; 5045), and that religious regulations not specifically instituted in the Quran constitute a religion other than GOD S RELIGION..
The messenger was given Quran only to be delivered ,Obey Allah and obey the messenger go hand in hand to emphasise the importance of GOD s message i.e GOD WORDS ALONE TO BE FOLLOWED.
17 ;46..And when you preach your Lord, using the Quran alone,* they run away in aversion.
Of course Quran orders and commands are not disputed by me here
.Also GOD s verses come with context like 33 56 was an order during the life of Mohammed like "do not raise your voices above that of the prophet and do not shout from outside to get his attention..."
God and His angels help and support the prophet. O you who believe, you shall help and support him, and submit a total submission. i.e FOLLOW GOD s MESSAGE AND EMBRACE TRUE iSLAM..
*3356 The word ``prophet'' (Nabi) consistently refers to Muhammad only when he was alive. Satan used this verse to entice the Muslims into commemorating Muhammad, constantly, instead of commemorating God as enjoined inO you who believe, you shall remember God frequently.*
يٰأَيُّهَا الَّذينَ ءامَنُوا اذكُرُوا اللَّهَ ذِكرًا كَثيرًا
You shall glorify Him day and night.
وَسَبِّحوهُ بُكرَةً وَأَصيلًا
He is the One who helps you, together with His angels, to lead you out of darkness into the light. He is Most Merciful towards the believers.
هُوَ الَّذى يُصَلّى عَلَيكُم وَمَلٰئِكَتُهُ لِيُخرِجَكُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ وَكانَ بِالمُؤمِنينَ رَحيمًا
Their greeting the day they meet Him is, "Peace," and He has prepared for them a generous recompense.
تَحِيَّتُهُم يَومَ يَلقَونَهُ سَلٰمٌ وَأَعَدَّ لَهُم أَجرًا كَريمًاSee GOD and HIS Angels also yusallu on the believers of His message.This is not about parroting words that have no meanings and do not make sense.
Or is GOD and His Angels doing that ?our god is whatever occupies our thoughts most of the time. Hence the commandment to commemorate God and glorify Him day and night.
We should both ponder on the verses of Quran.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Walikum Salam,
It is a very simple command, repeated again and again"Obey Allah AND Obey the Messenger".
The Messenger is going to show me how to offer Salah and not Almighty Himself.
May i know how to obey Allah without Messenger? From where you will get the verse claiming "Obey Allah AND Obey the Messenger".
Salam,
Hope you are doing good by the grace of Allah, Insha-Allah.
-The question here is why not just "Obey Allah" and why "Obey Allah AND Obey the Messenger" ?
-Why Quran orders that in the life of the Prophet (S.A.W.W.) we have an excellent example to follow ?so messenger showed how to perform salat...but God didn't explain it in quran but showed to Messenger.. So it means Messenger got some message explaining how to perform salat.. so not only salat many a thing in life.. such how fast how to perform haj or some personal things like how to do sex etc. etc.. okay fine..
So.. we are living in a period where that messenger is no more.. So you mean to say find something which is is written in a book about what he spoke what he did.. So any book claiming this is how Prophet told how to perform salat... So follow those books.. that's your argument.. So, why shia rejects shunni books.. are you the one who confirm this is the right way to perform salat?
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You are entitled to follow your choice. My amicable advice
Quran No Ambiguity
We have cited for the people every kind of example in this Quran, that they may take heed.
وَلَقَد ضَرَبنا لِلنّاسِ فى هٰذَا القُرءانِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَذَكَّرونَ
An Arabic Quran, without any ambiguity, that they may be righteous.
قُرءانًا عَرَبِيًّا غَيرَ ذى عِوَجٍ لَعَلَّهُم يَتَّقونَ
God cites the example of a man who deals with disputing partners (Hadith/sunna/men s books...), compared to a man who deals with only one consistent source (Quran). Are they the same? Praise be to God; most of them do not know.
ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا رَجُلًا فيهِ شُرَكاءُ مُتَشٰكِسونَ وَرَجُلًا سَلَمًا لِرَجُلٍ هَل يَستَوِيانِ مَثَلًا الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ بَل أَكثَرُهُم لا يَعلَمونَHadith A Gross Blasphemy
You (Muhammad) will surely die, just like they will die.(Only the Almighty is the everliving)
إِنَّكَ مَيِّتٌ وَإِنَّهُم مَيِّتونَ
On the Day of Resurrection, before your Lord, you people will feud with one another.
ثُمَّ إِنَّكُم يَومَ القِيٰمَةِ عِندَ رَبِّكُم تَختَصِمونَ
Who is more evil than one who attributes lies to God, while disbelieving in the truth that has come to him? Is Hell not a just requital for the disbelievers?
فَمَن أَظلَمُ مِمَّن كَذَبَ عَلَى اللَّهِ وَكَذَّبَ بِالصِّدقِ إِذ جاءَهُ أَلَيسَ فى جَهَنَّمَ مَثوًى لِلكٰفِرينَQuran Absolute Truth
As for those who promote the truth, and believe therein, they are the righteous.
وَالَّذى جاءَ بِالصِّدقِ وَصَدَّقَ بِهِ أُولٰئِكَ هُمُ المُتَّقونَ
They will get everything they wish, at their Lord. Such is the reward for the righteous.
لَهُم ما يَشاءونَ عِندَ رَبِّهِم ذٰلِكَ جَزاءُ المُحسِنينَ
God remits their sinful works, and rewards them generously for their good works.
لِيُكَفِّرَ اللَّهُ عَنهُم أَسوَأَ الَّذى عَمِلوا وَيَجزِيَهُم أَجرَهُم بِأَحسَنِ الَّذى كانوا يَعمَلونَProfound Question
Is God not sufficient for His servant? They frighten you with the idols they set up beside Him. Whomever God sends astray, nothing can guide him.
أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِكافٍ عَبدَهُ وَيُخَوِّفونَكَ بِالَّذينَ مِن دونِهِ وَمَن يُضلِلِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن هادٍ
And whomever God guides, nothing can send him astray. Is God not Almighty, Avenger?
وَمَن يَهدِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن مُضِلٍّ أَلَيسَ اللَّهُ بِعَزيزٍ ذِى انتِقامٍBest of luck.
Thank you for the conversation.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Quran
331 Say (O Prophet) “If you really love Allah, then follow me, and Allah shall love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Most-Forgiving, Very-Merciful.”
332 Say “Obey Allah and the Messenger.” Then, should they turn back, Allah does not love the disbelievers.” -
Quran
331 Say (O Prophet) “If you really love Allah, then follow me, and Allah shall love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Most-Forgiving, Very-Merciful.”
332 Say “Obey Allah and the Messenger.” Then, should they turn back, Allah does not love the disbelievers.”You don't perceive how it deserve... or you are deceiving yourself.. try to answer my previous thread rather than bringing verses.. coz definitely know these verses.. we don't deny..
okay take above two verses.. How do we know that these verses are from Allah or Messenger? Just again.. How do we convince that the above verses from Allah or Messenger?
i am not trying to strangle you.. just answer perhaps you may be relieved from your misunderstanding or may allah guide you... just answer questions directly...i highlighted the question in order for you to think -
We all know that very well
Quran
It is we who sent down the Quran and it is We who shall Guard it.And by the way if you read my Reply number 51, you will get your answer, I am a Follower of Rasul-Allah (Peace be upon him), we Muslims have been praying behind Rasul-Allah since he (S.A.W.W) taught us.
Sunnis, Shias, everyone, Alhamdulillah.May Allah guide me where I am wrong and may Allah guide you where you are, Aameen.
Know that you are NOT the Mr. know it all, Allah knows everything, Your intention and my intention, Allah knows it very well. -
We all know that very well
Quran
It is we who sent down the Quran and it is We who shall Guard it.And by the way if you read my Reply number 51, you will get your answer, I am a Follower of Rasul-Allah (Peace be upon him), we Muslims have been praying behind Rasul-Allah since he (S.A.W.W) taught us.
Sunnis, Shias, everyone, Alhamdulillah.May Allah guide me where I am wrong and may Allah guide you where you are, Aameen.
Know that you are NOT the Mr. know it all, Allah is.look brother .. i didn't claim i am Mr. Know.. just concentrate my question..coz you are the one here making claims... so if we want to accept you, you need to respond in support of that to the question we ask in return...
you are referring the verse 1509... so i again ask, whose statement this verse is? Is it from Allah OR Mohamed... or Both? simply say Yes it is Allah's or say It is Mohamed's or say Yes it is Both... Did allah spoke here anything other than what Messenger spoke? Or did Messenger speak anything other than what Allah spoke? what's wrong with your logic..
I don't understand some peoples mentality.. why they suddenly get upset..
