Torah and gospel
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Peace Brother centi50...
Verses are loud and clear that Torah and Injeel were in tact for people of Book to follow when Quran was being revealed... But we should not forget that there were every effort to destroy these two books by distorting its verses.. Though God never gave any gauranttee in Quran that He would preserve these two books (Torah and Injeel) ... With time it was distorted foe sure.. But God's verses still may remain in Torah while certain verses distorted meanwhile Injeel is addtessless.. Perhaps portions may remain in Bible.. .. But God clearly guaranteed in Quran He will preserve Quran(Zikr) It shows now everyone needs to follow God's book not any distorted books.. Even Quran was distorted .but Allah preserved it as He promised. .thats none other way but with numeric pattern... How can one claim Quran is preserved while genuine Quran which Prophet Muhammad wrote is no more... Among them 19 is the greatest... Otherwise I don't give up my challenge to anyone... Prove that the Quran you read is in fact the same which was revealed to Prophet... No tangible proof...Note 7430 ... Over it is nineteen.
That's incontrovertible. .When I read 2252 I understand that Satan can throw anything into God revealed Quran... Unless God throw it out. ..How? That's why God preserved with numeric pattern.
2252 itself shows it..
22+52 = 74
52-22 = 30
7430 is the key for QURAN..
Take it or leave it.. But truth is one... None can replace it..Which quran do say God he will preserve
I know the 2 version of the Qur'an the warsh and the Hash
God bless you
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These verses were for a certain group of audience in Arabia at that particular time. But you posted them backwards without any context.
Read the surrounding verses first. And remember all of the translations have mistakes. Most common one is the false belief that the Quran came to confirm the previous scriptures, when in fact it came to correct them.
Quran told them what was correct about their books and what had errors. When it told them to refer to it then it was speaking about a specific issue and not generally.
Again, this was towards an isolated audience and not everyone. The Torah and Bible are not from Allah.
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Peace centi50.
The Bible at the time of Muhammed is the same Bible of today.
Which prophet delivered a scripture called the Bible?
568 IS NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE.
It is talking about the Torah sent through the prophets of Beni Israel and the Injeel sent through Jesus -GOD s words-.
GOD did not send any prophet with the bible.
Or you mean these scriptures were copied in the bible exactly as GOD sent them?What is a scripture? What GOD has revealed. GOD s words only!
So is GOD talking about the Torah and Injeel ? Then it must be two scriptures sent before Mohammed. Not the bible.Qoran is not asking them to bring the bible or to refer to the bible.
People of the book are people who received a scripture from GOD .
Qoran does not tell the people of the book to judge with "men s words". it tells them to judge by GOD s words only specifically, here are the verses and ponder them
568
Say, "O people of the scripture, you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief...
قُل يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ لَستُم عَلىٰ شَىءٍ حَتّىٰ تُقيمُوا التَّورىٰةَ وَالإِنجيلَ وَما أُنزِلَ إِلَيكُم مِن رَبِّكُم وَلَيَزيدَنَّ كَثيرًا مِنهُم ما أُنزِلَ إِلَيكَ مِن رَبِّكَ طُغيٰنًا وَكُفرًا فَلا تَأسَ عَلَى القَومِ الكٰفِرينَLook at the words of the verses, it clearly says with what GOD has revealed. Only GOD s words
547
The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with God's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with God's revelations are the wicked.
وَليَحكُم أَهلُ الإِنجيلِ بِما أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ فيهِ وَمَن لَم يَحكُم بِما أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الفٰسِقونَGOD has not revealed the bible to people of the book!! GOD has revealed the Torah to the prophets of Israel and the Gospel to Jesus. GOD s scripture is only GOD s words. GOD s words never run out. Men add and change/ cover/loose GOD s words and make up religions to hijack the authority for themselves and their made up religion. Jews, Christians and Traditional Muslims have all done that,Judaism, Christianity and Traditional Islam are all made up religions
Consequences of Violating God's Commands and taking words out of context to hijack GOD S WORDS AND FOLLOW THEIR OWN DOCTRINES/OPINIONS.
It was a consequence of their violating the covenant that we condemned them, and we caused their hearts to become hardened. Consequently, they took the words out of context, and disregarded some of the commandments given to them. You will continue to witness betrayal from them, excepting a few of them. You shall pardon them, and disregard them. God loves those who are benevolent.
فَبِما نَقضِهِم ميثٰقَهُم لَعَنّٰهُم وَجَعَلنا قُلوبَهُم قٰسِيَةً يُحَرِّفونَ الكَلِمَ عَن مَواضِعِهِ وَنَسوا حَظًّا مِمّا ذُكِّروا بِهِ وَلا تَزالُ تَطَّلِعُ عَلىٰ خائِنَةٍ مِنهُم إِلّا قَليلًا مِنهُم فَاعفُ عَنهُم وَاصفَح إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ المُحسِنينَChristians, too
Also from those who said, "We are Christian," we took their covenant. But they disregarded some of the commandments given to them. Consequently, we condemned them to animosity and hatred among themselves, until the Day of Resurrection. God will then inform them of everything they had done.
وَمِنَ الَّذينَ قالوا إِنّا نَصٰرىٰ أَخَذنا ميثٰقَهُم فَنَسوا حَظًّا مِمّا ذُكِّروا بِهِ فَأَغرَينا بَينَهُمُ العَداوَةَ وَالبَغضاءَ إِلىٰ يَومِ القِيٰمَةِ وَسَوفَ يُنَبِّئُهُمُ اللَّهُ بِما كانوا يَصنَعونَHence GODis invitation to the Jews and Christians at the time of Mohammed and the following generations
O people of the scripture, our messenger- Qoran-r has come to you to proclaim for you many things you have concealed in the scripture, and to pardon many other transgressions you have committed. A beacon has come to you from God, and a profound scripture.
يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ قَد جاءَكُم رَسولُنا يُبَيِّنُ لَكُم كَثيرًا مِمّا كُنتُم تُخفونَ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَيَعفوا عَن كَثيرٍ قَد جاءَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ نورٌ وَكِتٰبٌ مُبينٌ
With it, God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path.
يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍGOD is consistent and clear that His one and only religion sent through all His prophets/Messengers is submission to Him Alone, following His words Alone and accepting His authority Alone./Not the man made religions of Judaism, Christianity or Traditional Islam or...etc
According to the argument, because Qoran is asking them to refer to "What GOD has revealed" then It must be what they have with them and are already following it?
Then why the need for Qoran to correct them and admonish them for abandoning GOD s guidance?
Qoran is also inviting them to follow this new revelation from GOD that confirms what was sent to them.Here is an example quoting verse 136 of Chapter 2 of the Qoran, which says, ‘Say, “We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters.”’
Jews and Christians particularly, will find the information in the Qoran quite familiar to what they already know from their scripture. Often referred to as ‘people of the scripture’ in the Qoran,
they will recognize it as a closely connected continuation of the Old and New Testaments. Many names, instructions, lessons, practices and history from these Testaments have been reiterated in the Qoran. Mary is the only woman mentioned by name in the Qoran with an entire chapter (19) named after her. In fact, the Quran specifies that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians), will actually get twice the reward for recognizing and continuing with what is essentially the last segment of their own scripture.Quoting from the Qoran, Chapter 28, verses 52 to 54 ‘Those whom we blessed with the previous scriptures will believe in this. When it is recited to them, they will say, "We believe in it. This is the truth from our Lord. Even before we heard of it, we were submitters." To these we grant twice the reward, because they steadfastly persevere. They counter evil works with good works, and from our provisions to them, they give.’
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
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Languages are different.
For example, Allah in Arabic is GOD in English or Dieu in French or...
Same with names of prophets or names of things...etc
Or have I misunderstood this,quote"It's important to keep the Quran how it is rather than "Christianizing" it, especially the names of the Quranic prophets.
Much of the Quran has been corrupted through false Christian interpretations. Especially about Eissa."
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Quran saying The elites always kept the books from you.
Quran 691 They did not value God as He deserves to be valued, for they said, "God has never sent down anything to any human being." Say, "Who then has sent down the book which Moses had come with, a light and guidance for the people? You treat it just as scrolls of paper; you show some of it and conceal much, though you were taught what neither you nor your fathers knew." Say, "God has." Then leave them playing in their folly.
Matthew Mark or Yuhanna always wrote hadith books.
Mattheww or Mark are like Bukhari. They are hadith writers. Christians and Jews have not got holy books today.
God's word hasn't changed. Your priests have adopted fake books. They gave you the hadith books as the Bible and deceived you.
Bible (Gospels and false Torah) is not Injeel or Torah. Bible is a hadith book collection.
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Salam jkhan
If Torah and injeel was distorted then why God tell the Jews why God tells for the Jews to judge by Torah. God will tell one go and judge with a corrupted task
Blees all
Salam..
You are repeating the question as if you don't get what I have written...
Thank you.. -
Which quran do say God he will preserve
I know the 2 version of the Qur'an the warsh and the Hash
God bless you
That's really a piece of joke. Isn't it?
Which Quran He revealed and that Quran He gave a word to Guard it... Choose the right one which is preserved... Most of all take the guidance from it..
Thank you.. -
Peace centi50.
Which Qoran do you think is from GOD? why?
For example the Arabic language itself went through changes and is different from the Arabic used by the prophet, like added diacritics ...etc
https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_diacritics
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Peace Brother centi50...
Verses are loud and clear that Torah and Injeel were in tact for people of Book to follow when Quran was being revealed... But we should not forget that there were every effort to destroy these two books by distorting its verses.. Though God never gave any gauranttee in Quran that He would preserve these two books (Torah and Injeel) ... With time it was distorted foe sure.. But God's verses still may remain in Torah while certain verses distorted meanwhile Injeel is addtessless.. Perhaps portions may remain in Bible.. .. But God clearly guaranteed in Quran He will preserve Quran(Zikr) It shows now everyone needs to follow God's book not any distorted books.. Even Quran was distorted .but Allah preserved it as He promised. .thats none other way but with numeric pattern... How can one claim Quran is preserved while genuine Quran which Prophet Muhammad wrote is no more... Among them 19 is the greatest... Otherwise I don't give up my challenge to anyone... Prove that the Quran you read is in fact the same which was revealed to Prophet... No tangible proof...Note 7430 ... Over it is nineteen.
That's incontrovertible. .When I read 2252 I understand that Satan can throw anything into God revealed Quran... Unless God throw it out. ..How? That's why God preserved with numeric pattern.
2252 itself shows it..
22+52 = 74
52-22 = 30
7430 is the key for QURAN..
Take it or leave it.. But truth is one... None can replace it..Salma bro jkhan.
You wrote "Even Quran was distorted .but Allah preserved it as He promised. .thats none other way but with numeric pattern"
Quran is distorted? You mean errors?
What about warsh and hafs version
Which did God reveal?
https//www.free-minds.org/which-quran
God bless all
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Hey John, do you get your missionary salary monthly or for every post you post on the forums?
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Salma bro jkhan.
You wrote "Even Quran was distorted .but Allah preserved it as He promised. .thats none other way but with numeric pattern"
Quran is distorted? You mean errors?
What about warsh and hafs version
Which did God reveal?
https//www.free-minds.org/which-quran
God bless all
Peace Centi..
Now your concern is clear...
So here Hafs or warsh is your issue.. Not any other version.. Do both versions identical in meaning? Perhaps Yes perhaps slight difference... That difference you have to trace.. Both versions have the verses 9128-129 but we don't accept both.. So which version I take? That's the thing.. not only verses being in tact will help preserving the book of God but meaning of those should also not change.. If the meaning of Ummi or Zakath etc etc were something else while it was delivered and it became entirely contrary to what God meant by the verses then it also doesn't mean God preserved the book.. Unless God let know at least to His believers.. God's book preserved or not preserved it won't make any difference to those who anyway reject.. Isn't it?
So God's physical book which was written by Prophet Mohammed was distorted.. No argument on it.. Coz the Quran I was reading in my childhood had 8 verses for chapter one.. That's Ameen.. Needless to explain physical quran can go through any denigraded state.. But reality will not change..
Remember God has revealed the book and that can only be reached by His true servants..
If you want a simple answer most probably I am taking Hafs as they say.. But I take only Quran which God revealed.. That's why I don't take which do not belong in it.. Neither Hafs nor warsh discard verses of 9128-129 so.. Take what is right.. For this guidance of God plus numerically structured pattern do help for us living after more than thousand year ..Note most of those who say Quran was revealed in verses then later on collected as chapters bla bla.. No..
Quran verses were actually revealed in chapter... Whenever God revealed He revealed one chapter at a time and the verses of that chapter was revealed continuously.. Most probably small chapters were revealed all at once.. I say with full of confidence..
Yes.. Chapter order was decided by God after all were revealed in order for people to read as a book. But God revealed chapters one by one..
All verses where chapter/ Sura do occur in Quran is a proof for my above statement...So centi50 ..Quran is error free for true believers.. Find it... Everything is error for disbelievers...
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Salma bro jkhan.
You wrote "Even Quran was distorted .but Allah preserved it as He promised. .thats none other way but with numeric pattern"
Quran is distorted? You mean errors?
What about warsh and hafs version
Which did God reveal?
https//www.free-minds.org/which-quran
God bless all
That paper was written before we found out Hafs was correct.
Both Jews and Christians already had their infighting going on at the time. Holy texts arent easy to get rid of. Original ones had to be there with certain groups. But apparently, even from distorted bible it is possible to get that Jesus taught people to be whole which in Arabic means muslim. I think christians do a good job of being that.
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What about warsh and hafs version
peace,
hafs died 796 CE
warsh died 812 CEuse cross-reference/context and oldest manuscripts
e.g., 214 قل qul/say (hafs) OR قال qala/he said (warsh)
context answer who said? it is obvious which is correct
Tübingen, Universitätsbibliothek Ma VI 165 (649-675 CE 100 years before hafs)
214 see 2nd line from top 2nd word قل qul/say
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/21/vers/1?handschrift=107e.g., warsh 5724 word هو he missing?
2264 الله the God لهو surely he الغنى the ample الحمىد the praiseworthy
3126 . . . . الله the God هو he الغنى the ample الحمىد the praiseworthy
3515 والله and the God هو he الغنى the ample الحمىد the praiseworthy5724 فان so indeed الله the God هو he الغنى the ample الحمىد the praiseworthy
606 فان so indeed الله the God هو he الغنى the ample الحمىد the praiseworthyBerlin, State Library Wetzstein II 1913 (Ahlwardt 305) — 662-765 CE
5724 see 3rd line from bottom 1st word هو he
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/57/vers/24?handschrift=163606 see 2nd line from bottom 2nd word هو he
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/60/vers/6?handschrift=163which is the injeel? http//www.earlychristianwritings.com/
Berlin, Staatsbibliothek ms.or.fol. 4313 606-652 CE
https//corpuscoranicum.de/handschriften/index/sure/5/vers/68?handschrift=15https//i.postimg.cc/nhSdLqd0/ch5v67-76.jpg
