The Ultimate Guide to Conquer Desires

[Jafar]

Jafar and jkhan, thank you for your meaningful and helpful/useful posts and for taking the time to write them.

These are questions to contemplate about desires...

Why do many people in modern times struggle with how to conquer their desires and want to conquer them? Why did many people in ancient times had the exact same challenge? Why do many people who want to conquer their desires think it's an uphill battle? Why do many people find it hard to resist the allure of desires such as lust? Why do many people think this psychological force has an incredibly strong pull and succumb to it regularly or from time to time? Is the notion of complete self-control regarding desires just a myth?

You're welcome.
By the word 'desire' here do you actually refer specifically to sexual desire?
Ok then let's dive in to that.

Let's take an example, the life of Siddharta, do you know how he "conquered" sexual desire?
Not by fighting it but by achieving such desire in great abundance.

Siddharta was a wealthy prince, he has a beautiful wife and many concubines..
Yet he then thought those are not what he actually looking for and he desire something else... he desire an enlightenment.
He then leave his wife, concubines and all the luxury that he has because he has desired something else..

During the later stage of his life when he said "Suffering caused by desire" is in no way a reference that "desire" is bad or evil. It's just a statement of fact. Even 'desiring an enlightenment' is also a desire by itself, which then drive SIdda

Desire drive action (karma), and each action has it's own implication.
When the receiver of implication like the implication he label it as "good".
When the receiver of implication do not like the implication he label it as "bad".

Let's take a simple desire which caused simple action.

A man is hungry so he desire to eat, he then goes to KFC to buy and eat a fried chicken.
Is the event "good" or "bad"? Let's dive in...

The event is "good" for KFC and it's stakeholders, because the action correlates well with their goal and objective, selling chicken in exchange for money.
The event is "good" for the hungry man as KFC's chicken fulfill his desire to eat.
The event is "bad" for the chicken, because he doesn't like to be murdered and put his body to be eaten by the hungry man.

To minimize the "bad" implication from the perspective of the chicken, the man thought that the best he can do is to send blessing and say thank you to the chicken prior eating them.
The man above has performed mindfulness of implications from a karma (action) that he performed.

As such 'desire' by itself is not good or bad, it's the action (karma) for achieving the desire that can have implications and consequences which might be potentially be good or bad based on perspective.

Back to 'sexual desire', as mentioned it is not good or bad, but how the action (karma) for achieving the desire can have implications which potentially be good or bad based on perspective. One need to be mindful of such implications.

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace jkhan, and fellow members

For me having desire is absolutely fine and it is how things work within human mind and body... without having desire there is no life for sure with meaning...

Whatever God created in it is desire for human being and that's how it has been created..
but unfortunately you have picked the wrong verse to elaborate ... The verse you opted for this topic is totally irrelevant to genuine desire of human being.. there is no need to conquer desire.. if you really meant to suppress the desire by your topic then it is absolutely not necessary at all...... what for..

The verses 1536-42 are totally relevant to the topic of this thread (notably verse 1542), and that's what's crucial here. Verse 1542 contains the most important principle regarding how to conquer desires. Verse 1542 says that the devil has no authority/power over the devoted/faithful (l-mukh'laṣīna) servants of God. Therefore, verse 1542 clearly and indisputably shows that the devoted/faithful servants of God won't succumb to desires such as lust (in other words, they have complete self-control). First case in point A devoted/faithful servant of God won't succumb to lust and read/watch sexual materials such as erotic/pornographic videos, photographs, writings or the like. Second case in point A devoted/faithful servant of God won't succumb to lust and have premarital sex (possibly including premarital physical/romantic relationships as well). Third and final case in point A devoted/faithful servant of God won't succumb to lust and have extramarital sex and/or extramarital physical/romantic relationships.

I counsel you to earnestly read verses 1536-42 and verses 1223-24, compare them with one another and contemplate on their profound meanings.

He said "my lord, respite me until the day they are resurrected. He said "you are given respite." "Until the day of the time appointed." He said "my Lord, for that by which you have caused me to be misled, I will beautify for them what is on the earth, and I will mislead them all." "Except your servants from among them, the devoted ones (l-mukh'laṣīna)." He said "this shall be a straight path to me." "For my servants, you shall have no authority over them, except those who are misled and follow you."
(Verses 1536-42)

And the woman, in whose house he was staying, attempted to seduce him away from himself. And she closed the doors and said "I have prepared myself for you." He said "I seek refuge with God, He is my Lord, He has made good my stay; the wicked do not succeed." And she was obsessed with him, and he did obsess with her - had it not been that he saw the proof of his Lord - it was thus that We turned evil and immorality away from him; he is of our loyal (l-mukh'laṣīna) servants.
(Verses 1223-24)

The cross-reference of the word/term (l-mukh'laṣīna) in verse 1540 with the exact same word/term (l-mukh'laṣīna) in verse 1224 (which contextually refers to the story of Joseph and the married woman who tried to seduce him), clearly and indisputably shows that the devoted/faithful servants of the God won't succumb to desires such as lust. Verses 1223-24 say that Joseph did not succumb to lust when the married woman tried to seduce him. In addition to that, verse 1224 says that Joseph was one of the devoted/faithful (l-mukh'laṣīna) servants of the God. Therefore, verse 1224 clearly and indisputably shows that the devoted/faithful servants of the God won't succumb to desires such as lust.

In summary, verses 15-36-42 and verses 1223-24 clearly and indisputably show that the devil has no authority/power over the devoted/faithful (sincere) servants of God. Moreover, these verses clearly and indisputably show that only he who is/becomes a devoted/faithful (sincere) servant of the God is able to conquer desires such as lust (namely to attain complete self-control). In other words, according to the verses mentioned above, a devoted/faithful (sincere) servant of the God will never succumb to lust.

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace all,

jafar and jkhan, I will reply to your newest posts here, if the God wills it. But unfortunately, I can't do it today due to lack of time.

For the time being, allow me to share a quote here. I consider this quote to be relevant with regard to the topic of this thread.

"Greed turns love into lust, leisure into sloth, hunger into gluttony, honor into pride, righteous indignation into anger, and admiration into envy. If it weren’t for greed, we would suffer fewer of the other vices." - James Ogilvy

Let me share some verses from the quran here too. These verses are relevant to the topic of this thread, in my opinion.

He said "my lord, respite me until the day they are resurrected. He said "you are given respite." "Until the day of the time appointed." He said "my Lord, for that by which you have caused me to be misled, I will beautify for them what is on the earth, and I will mislead them all." "Except your servants from among them, the devoted ones." He said "this shall be a straight path to me." "For my servants, you shall have no authority over them, except those who are misled and follow you." 1536-42

And I will misguide them and make them desire, and I will command them, so that they will mark the ears of the livestock, and I will command them so they will make changes to the creation of God. Whoever takes the devil as a supporter other than God, then he has indeed lost a great loss. He promises them and makes them desire, but what the devil promises them is only vanity. 4119-120

And have patience upon yourself regarding those who call on their Lord at dawn and dusk seeking His face, and let not your eyes overlook them that you seek the beauty of this worldly life. And do not obey he whom We have made his heart heedless of Our remembrance and he followed his desire, and his fate was lost. 1828

And if the truth were to follow their desires, then the heavens and the earth and all who are in them would have been corrupted. No, We have come to them with their reminder, but from their reminder they are turning away. 2317

And those who provided them with shelter, and were believers before them; they love those who immigrated to them, and they find no hesitation in their hearts in helping them, and they readily give them priority over themselves, even when they themselves need what they give away. Indeed, those who overcome their desires are the successful ones. 599

Have you seen the one who has taken his desire as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him? 2543

But if they fail to respond to you, then know that they follow only their desires. And who is more astray than he who follows his desire, without guidance from God? God does not guide the wicked people. 2850

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan, and fellow members

The verses 1536-42 are totally relevant to the topic of this thread (notably verse 1542), and that's what's crucial here. Verse 1542 contains the most important principle regarding how to conquer desires. Verse 1542 says that the devil has no authority/power over the devoted/faithful (l-mukh'laṣīna) servants of God. Therefore, verse 1542 clearly and indisputably shows that the devoted/faithful servants of God won't succumb to desires such as lust (in other words, they have complete self-control). First case in point A devoted/faithful servant of God won't succumb to lust and read/watch sexual materials such as erotic/pornographic videos, photographs, writings or the like. Second case in point A devoted/faithful servant of God won't succumb to lust and have premarital sex (possibly including premarital physical/romantic relationships as well). Third and final case in point A devoted/faithful servant of God won't succumb to lust and have extramarital sex and/or extramarital physical/romantic relationships.

I counsel you to earnestly read verses 1536-42 and verses 1223-24, compare them with one another and contemplate on their profound meanings.

He said "my lord, respite me until the day they are resurrected. He said "you are given respite." "Until the day of the time appointed." He said "my Lord, for that by which you have caused me to be misled, I will beautify for them what is on the earth, and I will mislead them all." "Except your servants from among them, the devoted ones (l-mukh'laṣīna)." He said "this shall be a straight path to me." "For my servants, you shall have no authority over them, except those who are misled and follow you."
(Verses 1536-42)

And the woman, in whose house he was staying, attempted to seduce him away from himself. And she closed the doors and said "I have prepared myself for you." He said "I seek refuge with God, He is my Lord, He has made good my stay; the wicked do not succeed." And she was obsessed with him, and he did obsess with her - had it not been that he saw the proof of his Lord - it was thus that We turned evil and immorality away from him; he is of our loyal (l-mukh'laṣīna) servants.
(Verses 1223-24)

The cross-reference of the word/term (l-mukh'laṣīna) in verse 1540 with the exact same word/term (l-mukh'laṣīna) in verse 1224 (which contextually refers to the story of Joseph and the married woman who tried to seduce him), clearly and indisputably shows that the devoted/faithful servants of the God won't succumb to desires such as lust. Verses 1223-24 say that Joseph did not succumb to lust when the married woman tried to seduce him. In addition to that, verse 1224 says that Joseph was one of the devoted/faithful (l-mukh'laṣīna) servants of the God. Therefore, verse 1224 clearly and indisputably shows that the devoted/faithful servants of the God won't succumb to desires such as lust.

In summary, verses 15-36-42 and verses 1223-24 clearly and indisputably show that the devil has no authority/power over the devoted/faithful (sincere) servants of God. Moreover, these verses clearly and indisputably show that only he who is/becomes a devoted/faithful (sincere) servant of the God is able to conquer desires such as lust (namely to attain complete self-control). In other words, according to the verses mentioned above, a devoted/faithful (sincere) servant of the God will never succumb to lust.

Still I say I have given the clear explanation in my threads... The verse related to iblees is not relevant with your topic.. No one need to conquer desire unless trying to achieve in evil way or forbidden or impossible...

Desire is God's gift to all His creatures... It was not given to suppress it but enjoy it...
If your concern is only SEXUAL desire.. Then Quran has given clear instructions with whome a human being can have sexual desire... Breaching it leads astray. So simple.. Sexual desire is harmless.. How you achieve it depends...
Thank you.

[Euphoric]

There's whim and there's desire. Whim is impulsive while desire is a want or wish.

Whims shouldn't be followed while desire should be kept under control.

Mukhlaseen means those who purify, to separate and get rid of adulteration.

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace jkhan, and fellow members

Apart from that two conditions (FORBIDDEN + IMPOSSIBLE) .. Desiring to achieve something in evil way as I explained in my first post..

These THREE makes a person to go against God.. Other than that having desire of any nature is absolutely fine..

Your claim sounds reasonable when you say that those three (things) make a person go against God. But are you sure that other than that, having desire of any nature is absolutely fine from the quran's point of view? If having desire of any nature is absolutely fine from the quran's point of view, then why has the word desire been portrayed in a negative light in multiple verses in the quran? In fact, the word desire has been portrayed in a negative light in several verses in the quran (1828, 2016, 2543, 2850, 4523, 7175-176).

If we desire, we can spend 15 hours a day watching TV shows, and/or playing video games and/or being on social media platforms. Doing these things 15 hours a day, isn't forbidden and impossible and neither has it anything to do with achieving something in an evil way. But if a man desires to spend 15 hours a day doing these things, is it an absolutely fine desire from the quran's point of view? Also, what about gluttony, is it an absolutely fine desire from the quran's point of view? No, absolutely not. It is evident that gluttony isn't an absolutely fine desire from the quran's point of view (6141 and 731). Therefore, having desire of any nature isn't absolutely fine from the quran's point of view.

I'm sure that you are aware that doing particular actions and choosing a particular course makes a man come closer to God (3437). Besides, the quran shows us that there are several paths that one can take. Furthermore, those paths aren't equal whatsoever (261, 314-15, 924, 1846 and 1976). To put it in another way, some paths are more treasured and advantageous (beneficial) than others. To give an example, worldly goods aren't forbidden in the quran, aren't impossible to acquire and it's possible to aquire them in a good way. Regardless of this fact, the quran considers belief in God and doing good deeds far more important than acquiring worldly goods (314-15, 924, 1846 and 1976). Humans need worldly goods such as food, clothing, tools, houses an so on in order to survive and grow (thrive). Also, the quran doesn't advocate poverty (2268, 928 and 1726-30). Nevertheless, the quran counsels us to put belief in God and doing good deeds far above the pursuit of acquiring worldly goods (314-15, 924, 1846 and 1976). Therefore, it isn't an absolutely fine desire, to put the pursuit of acquiring worldly goods above belief in God and doing good deeds, from the quran's point of view. Thus, having desire of any nature isn't absolutely fine, from the quran's point of view.

If one wants to have 10 times sexual intercourse with wife while she is willing and if they are capable what is wrong in it? Absolutely fine desire..
Desire is inbuilt and no one can leave it outside the body and mind.. It may differ depend on people's choice.. Worthless effort to keep it away.. ..

What do you mean by 10 times? Do you mean 10 times an hour, 10 times a day, 10 times a week or 10 times a month? Please be specific. The quran doesn't forbid a man to have sexual intercourse 10 times or more with his wife during an hour or during a day, if she is willing and if they're capable of doing it. But if a man has sexual intercourse 10 times or more with his wife during an hour or during a day, it might be an excessive desire, from the quran's point of view. Let me say it again, the quran doesn't forbid a man to have sexual intercourse 10 times or more with his wife during an hour or during a day, if she is willing and if they're capable of doing it. Nevertheless, it's not optimum and neither is it encouraged/recommended, from the quran's point of view. The quran urges us to keep desires in check (2543 and 7940-41).

jkhan, I have some rhetorical questions for you regarding the point you raised about a man's sexual intercourse with his wife (spouse). Do you mean having sexual intercourse 10 times with ones spouse with aim of procreation or with the aim of recreation? Or do you mean having sexual intercourse 10 times with ones spouse with the aim of procreation and recreation? What's the purpose of sex according to the quran? Is sex for procreation or recreation according to the quran? Or is sex for both procreation and recreation according to the quran? While on the subject, let's see what the quran says about the natural purpose of sex.

Your wives are your tilth; go, then, unto your tilth as you may desire, but first provide something for your souls, and remain conscious of God, and know that you are destined to meet Him. And give glad tidings unto those who believe. 2223

Possible interpretations of verse 2223 in the quran

1. The quran suggests that the wives of married men are their tilth in relation to sex. The word tilth is a metaphor. So when it comes to sex, the wives of married men are likened to a tilth, which is the physical condition of soil when it's suitable for planting or growing a crop. Farmers go their tilth with the intention of growing a crop. Likewise, married men can approach their wives as they desire in relation to sex, as long as they maintain goodness and as long as they have sexual intercourse with the intention of procreation (namely to produce offspring). Thus, the natural purpose of sex is procreation, according to this interpretation.

2. The quran suggests that married men can approach their wives as they desire in relation to sex, as long as they maintain goodness. Therefore, the purpose of sex isn't only for procreation, but for recreation as well. The quran doesn't mention explicitly that the purpose of sex is for procreation. Also, it never mentions that sex is forbidden with regard to recreation. Therefore, married men can have sex with their wives for recreation (namely without the intention of producing offspring). Thus, the natural purpose of sex is recreation (in addition to procreation), according to this interpretation. Incidentally, scientific advancements have made it possible for married couples to have sex without worrying about producing offspring. A married man can use condoms as contraception, and the wife of a married man can use different types of contraception such as birth control pills, the birth control ring, the contraceptive implant, the contraceptive diaphagram, the cervical cap and an intrauterine device (IUD). Married couples can also use natural methods of contraception (namely family planning). Some people prefer to use artifical contraception, while others prefer to use natural methods of contraception.

Whether sex is for procreation or recreation or for both procreation and recreation from the quran's point of view, doesn't mean that it's pointless to keep desires in check (namely to keep them under control or to conquer them). You might be right when you say it's a worthless effort to keep desires away (namely to get rid of them). But there are many good reasons to keep desires in check. Numerous people think it's not a worthless effort to keep desires in check. Numerous people think it's both possible and beneficial to master ones desires instead of letting oneself be controlled by them. Numerous people think there's no freedom without self-control and that an uncontrolled man can't steer his life on the right course. Numerous people think the higher degree of self-control a man has, the better he will be able to succeed in his worldly and spiritual endeavours. Numerous people think the time spent on following desires that aren't advantageous (beneficial) can instead be spent on more important matters. Numerous people think desires that are excessive can be harmful and can lead to decadence. Numerous people think excessive desires such as the desire to overeat is bad, and that this desire should be controlled. Numerous people think an excess of anything is bad, and that excessive desires are no exception to this principle. I am sure that you can see by now that it's worthy and advantageous (beneficial) to conquer desires.

By the way, it goes without saying that the majority of people believe sex is for both procreation and recreation. To put it in another way, the majority of people believe one can have sex to procreate (with the purpose of producing offspring) and that one can have sex for pleasure (without the purpose of producing offspring). Throughout history, only a minority of people believed sex is solely for procreation. Did you know that philosophers such as Musonius rufus, Thomas aquinas, Immanuel Kant, Augustine of Hippo and Ghulam Ahmad Parwez believed that the purpose of sex is procreation? Why do you think that only a minority of philosophers believed that the purpose of sex is procreation? Further, there seems to be a lack of scientific evidence in support of the claim that sex is solely for procreation. Why? Was it because they adhered to monasticism and ascetism? I counsel you to contemplate on these questions.

I will reply to the rest of your post in my next post...

[The_Middle_Path]

After all.. What is the benefit of leaving it away or conquering desire? What one expect in this world and in the lifeafter by conquering desire?

There are many benefits of conquering desires. By way of illustration, a man who desires to buy and eat chocholate (with white refined sugar and GMO soy lecithin) every day, will benefit both economically and health wise by conquering his desire. To put it in another way, a man who buys and eats a chocholate daily due to his immense desire for this food product, will benefit both economically and health wise if he stops buying and eating chocholate every day. Also, some companies in the cocoa industry profit from slave labor. So if the man stops buying chocholate made with slave labor, then he stops supporting slave labor. If enough people stop buying chocholate made with slave labor, then those companies that use slave labor, will be forced to change their unethical ways in order to continue making profit. This will benefit those who work on cocoa farms immensely.

When it comes to desires, numerous people think there are physical, mental and spiritual benefits of practicising sexual abstincence/semen retention. Throughout history, a lot of great minds practiced some form of sexual abstinence/semen retention. The following thinkers practiced some form of of sexual abstinence/semen retention; Hippocrates, Galen, Pythagoras, Plato, Leonardo Da Vinci, A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, Nikola Tesla, Steve Jobs, Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, Soren Kierkegaard, Friedrich Nietzsche, Michelangelo, Aristotle, Baruch Spinoza, Ludwig Van Beethoven, William Shakespeare, Isaac Newton, Herbert Spencer, Saigo Takamori, Henry David Thoreau, Mohandas Gandhi and Orville and Wilbur Wright. If you'd like to read some articles about the benefits of sexual abstinence/semen retention from the SR community, please check here and here.

If you'd like to read some books about the benefits of sexual abstinence/semen retention, then please check the books below.

I heartily recommend the following books

• The coiled serpent by C.J. Van Vliet
• Brain Gain by His Holiness Danavir Goswami
• Libido Dominandi by Michael Jones
• Practical methods to insure success by Hiram E. Butler
• Continence and its creative power by Swami Jagadiswarananda
• Science Discovers The Physiological Value Of Continence by Raymond W. Bernard

I think the articles and books above are interesting and educational and contain some useful/helpful information about the benefits of sexual abstinence and conquering desires such as lust. But I don't agree with everything that's mentioned in those articles and books. The articles and books above are archaic and a little extreme, in my opinion. But I still think it's worth reading them. However, I think its prudent/reasonable to read them with a grain of salt. Also, I'd never put the knowledge in those articles and books on a pedestal. As I have previously mentioned in this thread, I think the most profound information about how to conquer desires is in the quran.

Is there any promise from God or gods or nature that one will get benefit immensely by conquering desire?

The quran declares that the benefit of conquering desires is the attainment of paradise (7940-41).

I'd like to end this post with a few quotes on desires.

"Complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation." - Augustine of Hippo

"Ever fed, never satisfied. Never fed, ever satisfied." - Paramahansa Yogananda

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace Jafar, and fellow members

You're welcome.
By the word 'desire' here do you actually refer specifically to sexual desire?
Ok then let's dive in to that.

Yes, I was referring to lust, but also desires such as greed, pride, indolence and anger.

Let's take an example, the life of Siddharta, do you know how he "conquered" sexual desire?
Not by fighting it but by achieving such desire in great abundance.

Thanks for sharing the story of Siddharta. I have read it in the past. But it's nice to read it again. Although the historical Siddharta might have might have been a little different than the Siddharta depicted in the ancient buddhist texts that probably have been changed/rewritten (tampered with), I think there are some very enlightening teachings in those texts. I like several stories from the philosophy of the east. Because I think there is a lot of profound insights in them. Actually, two of the most interesting and educational stories I have read about how to conquer desires, are from the philosophy of the east. I consider them to be really good. One of stories is by Swami Jagadiswarananda and the other one is by Lu Sheng-Yen. Since you seem to like the philosophy of the east, I think you might like the stories. If you'd like to read the stories, you can read them in thislink and in thislink.

As such 'desire' by itself is not good or bad, it's the action (karma) for achieving the desire that can have implications and consequences which might be potentially be good or bad based on perspective.

What you say make sense and I mostly conqur with you. At the same time, it seems that desires such as lust, indolence/sloth, gluttony, pride and anger are not positive desires. Additionally, they can lead to negative consequences (karma). Also, there seem to be a difference between desires and needs.

Back to 'sexual desire', as mentioned it is not good or bad, but how the action (karma) for achieving the desire can have implications which potentially be good or bad based on perspective. One need to be mindful of such implications.

What you say make sense. The consequence (karma) for achieving the desire can have implications which are potentally good or bad based on effects as well as perspective, in my opinion. If the effects are bad, the desire is bad, if the effects are good, the desire is good, in my opinion. Furthermore, I think perspective is crucial with regard to achieving the desire. So your view is definitely reasonable/prudent.

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace fellow members,

There are some quotes that I want to share with you all. I think the quotes are relevant to the topic of this thread. Also, I think the quotes shed some light on the topic of desires. But I don't agree with everything in them. The quotes are archaic and a little extreme, in my opinion. Nevertheless, I still think it's worth reading them.

"Where lusts and desires are deep, the springs of the heavenly are shallow."

• Zhuangzi

"If you want to destroy any nation without war, make adultery or nudity common in the young generation."

• Saladin

"Michelangelo’s contemporary Ascanio Condivi, who was also his biographer, described Michelangelo as having “monk-like chastity.”

• Anthony Hughes, author of “Michelangelo (Art and Ideas)

"As long as the satisfaction of the appetites and lusts of the flesh is included in man’s ideals and aims, he never can rise above the plane of animalism."

• C.J. Van Vliet

"The way to chastity is not to struggle with incontinent thoughts but to avert the thoughts by some imployment (sic), or by reading, or by meditating on other things, or by convers."

• Isaac Newton

"You may wonder what made them do this, you may wonder if I had some strange power. Let me tell you that I did have a power and this is it — never once in my life did I allow myself to have even one sexual thought. I trained my mind, my thinking, and the powers that man usually uses along that line I put into a higher channel, and it developed a force so strong that nothing could resist it."

• Swami Vivekananda

"Socrates first prescribes abstinence from sexual pleasure. A conventionalized treatment of his view on sex then follows which illustrates and amplifies the earlier summary treatment of its dangers…Xenophon makes the wrong move and finds that though sex may be a pleasure, it makes you a slave."

• Vivienne, author of The Framing of Socrates The Literary Interpretation of Xenophon’s Memorobilia.

"Although Saigo would remarry twice, father five children, and keep a company of Kyoto geisha, in 1854 he prided himself on avoiding women entirely. He saw abstinence as empowering rather than constraining he swore, for example, to keep a monk’s vow of celibacy if his lord, Shimazu Nariakira, had a healthy male heir. In his youth Saigo saw sex not as pleasurable dissipation or intimacy but as an impediment to happiness and loyalty."

• Mark Ravina, author of the Last Samurai The life and battles of Saigo Takamori

"Freud held the opinion (based on personal experience and observation) that sexual activity was incompatible with the accomplishing of any great work. Since he felt that the great work of creating and establishing psychotherapy was his destiny, he told his wife that they could no longer engage in sexual relations. Indeed from about the age of forty until his death Freud was absolutely celibate “in order to sublimate the libido for creative purposes."

• Ernest Jones, author of The life and work of Sigmund Freud

"I don’t ejaculate for six weeks before the fight. No sex, no masturbation, no nothing."

• David Haye, world heavy weight boxing champion

"There's a kid named Cassius Clay(Ali). If you bet on him every time he fights, you'll be a rich man. I believe his thing is sexual control. Any kid who can control his sex can win the title."

• Harry Wiley, olympic boxing coach

"I have nothing but approval for sex and love between two people who want to do it.. But sex for the sake of sex is an unnecessary expenditure of energy. The worst things is to have sex without fulfilling nature's purpose. In other words, sex is the instrument of procreation."

• Helio Grace, martial artist and cofounder of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

"A wrestler must be celibate because semen is regarded as the primary source of strength.”

• The Great Gama, undefeated world champion wrestler

"Do no dissipate in any form whatever. You should sleep alone, and from eight to nine hours. Get up at 530 and take a walk."

• Martin “Farmer” Burns” World Champion “catch-as-catch-can” wrestler, coach, writer and teacher

"Moderation in sexual intercourse is very important. Sexual abstemiousness should be strictly observed during the early age of manhood and development. He who observes this recommendation will soon benefit by the immense prerogatives of chastity. A few years ago a colleague of mine said to me “Nonsense, that is only human nature.” This “clever” man, however reached only a secondary position as a strong man, and now, at the age of thirty, he is actually degenerating as an athlete."

• Georg Hackenschmidt, strongman, wrestler and sports philosopher, who is acknowledged as professional wrestling's first world heavyweight champion

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace Euphoric,

There's whim and there's desire. Whim is impulsive while desire is a want or wish.

Whims shouldn't be followed while desire should be kept under control.

Mukhlaseen means those who purify, to separate and get rid of adulteration.

Thank you for your meaningful and helpful/useful post.

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan, and fellow members

Your claim sounds reasonable when you say that those three (things) make a person go against God. But are you sure that other than that, having desire of any nature is absolutely fine from the quran's point of view? If having desire of any nature is absolutely fine from the quran's point of view, then why has the word desire been portrayed in a negative light in multiple verses in the quran? In fact, the word desire has been portrayed in a negative light in several verses in the quran (1828, 2016, 2543, 2850, 4523, 7175-176).

If we desire, we can spend 15 hours a day watching TV shows, and/or playing video games and/or being on social media platforms. Doing these things 15 hours a day, isn't forbidden and impossible and neither has it anything to do with achieving something in an evil way. But if a man desires to spend 15 hours a day doing these things, is it an absolutely fine desire from the quran's point of view? Also, what about gluttony, is it an absolutely fine desire from the quran's point of view? No, absolutely not. It is evident that gluttony isn't an absolutely fine desire from the quran's point of view (6141 and 731). Therefore, having desire of any nature isn't absolutely fine from the quran's point of view.

I'm sure that you are aware that doing particular actions and choosing a particular course makes a man come closer to God (3437). Besides, the quran shows us that there are several paths that one can take. Furthermore, those paths aren't equal whatsoever (261, 314-15, 924, 1846 and 1976). To put it in another way, some paths are more treasured and advantageous (beneficial) than others. To give an example, worldly goods aren't forbidden in the quran, aren't impossible to acquire and it's possible to aquire them in a good way. Regardless of this fact, the quran considers belief in God and doing good deeds far more important than acquiring worldly goods (314-15, 924, 1846 and 1976). Humans need worldly goods such as food, clothing, tools, houses an so on in order to survive and grow (thrive). Also, the quran doesn't advocate poverty (2268, 928 and 1726-30). Nevertheless, the quran counsels us to put belief in God and doing good deeds far above the pursuit of acquiring worldly goods (314-15, 924, 1846 and 1976). Therefore, it isn't an absolutely fine desire, to put the pursuit of acquiring worldly goods above belief in God and doing good deeds, from the quran's point of view. Thus, having desire of any nature isn't absolutely fine, from the quran's point of view.

Peace MP….

Your topic is conquer desire… Desire shouldn’t be conquered.. coz desire is part and parcel of life.. Excessive nature in anything is not desire … I want to eat Chocolate cake … I sense a desire.. so I go to a café and enjoy a piece or couple of pieces of them… desire accomplished… what if I eat again and again on the same day and continue everyday… it is not desire … it is madness and excess… Don’t complicate desire with excessive approach.. Excess always not good… and never recommended by God… They eat like cattle… what does it mean? One thing for sure is excess…
This is the definition of DESIRE “a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen”
So.. try to grasp within that…
Let me turn towards the point I raised having sex 10 times… I in fact meant having 10 times having sex in a complete day (24hrs)… having sex is a desire… satisfaction is key… even when a couple is on the bed together.. They may do few times.. and in the end they may end up doing several times.. But only having sex is not life… life is versatile… while keeping everything in balance and involving in sex until they satisfy is no harm.. it is not excess .. Excessiveness is when they forget the rest of the life and responsibility and remembrance of God etc and only doing one thing most of the time and leaving other matters aside…So excess in anything even in charity is bad.. Don’t give everything and be mad in the end without anything for you… If a person kill one and it is allowed only to kill one, no excess…
2567 And those who, when they spend, do so not excessively or sparingly but are ever, between that, moderate” 3147 Our Lord, forgive us our sins and the excess in our affairs and plant firmly our feet and give us victory over the disbelieving people.”

So, Brother / Sister MP… what you have brought in this particular thread is totally not relevant to your topic and what I have explained saying (FORBIDDEN, IMPOSSIBLE and EVIL WAY)… coz EXCESS is non of the these but something which God doesn’t like and not recommend.. perhaps you get me what I say..
so the examples you brought, like watching TV 15 hours is definitely excess unless he or she not misses any other of his responsibility or remembrance of God... suppose if there is a Tennis match going extending up to 6 hours or a cricket match taking almost 8 hour people tend to watch.. it happens... but we can't leave any of our responsibility or remembrance of God but in between you may watch.. no harm.. it is not excess coz you have not discarded anything during the day and still watched TV.. Watching TV is just a stagnant activity .. so during watching you can do many things.. you can praise Lord etc etc.. I wonder who has time to watch TV everyday 15 hours without leaving the seat.. that's madness..
for example those who work going to office stay there for almost 8 hours and mostly doing only office work leaving all other personal works..it is not excess it is a commitment.. for that he or she is committed.. but those who have little free time like can involve in other works as well.. coz you get free time naturally in office... you can praise Lord.. you can do anything which is good other than office work.. but when the work is there do what you have to do.. it is not excess though chunk of your time is spent in office..

for your rhetorical question, i would respond when i am free in office..

[jkhan]

@ MP

It is both for recreation (fundamentally) and in the end it may end as procreation depends on personal choice and God’s Will …
I would like to leave animals aside in this topic… coz I have no idea for what purpose a male cat do have sex with a female cat and in the end male cat have no connection to both female cat and its kitten.. let’s talk about human here..
In sex definitely there is pleasure needless to elaborate.. even without sex being together … one would ask for what purpose a husband does kiss his wife.. it has pleasure.. if all these pleasures in the form of RECREATION not permitted if the purpose of couple is not meant for PROCREATION .. Coz of your concern so many questions will be raised..
1… When a couple involve intercourse they don’t know whether they will have a child in the end by their pleasure act.. it is in the hands of God…. Their act of sex won’t create, but God creates what He Wills. their act is mere pleasure.. but when she gets pregnant they are happy.. new feelings..
2…. When the couple meet doctor, Dr. may say it is perhaps impossible that you both can have a baby… so… what you recommend not to have sex.. or Keep on having.. perhaps after ages you may get a baby… so.. clear injustice.. these couple enjoy since they don’t have baby while those who have a baby cannot…
3… What about family planning… Do you think family planning is not recommended.. suppose a couple wants only one kid depending on their capacity.. so they have already one kid.. So every time they both be together in their chamber, you want them to control their feeling while sleeping together a man and woman on the same bed being husband and wife they want to be extra vigilant not to have sex.. that’s far from truth.. impossible for a long period..
4… So using contraceptive sheaths are not recommended since the purpose of condom is only birth control while indulge in pleasure …
5… leave the newly married aside.. if the purpose of sex is only for procreation, what about considerably old couples when their children are teens.. do they just live without even thinking about sex at all… This is unnecessary stress to life which God never ever restricted..
Etc etc. etc..
If Procreation is the only purpose of having sex, why God would naturally apply pleasure while having sex.. why the moment everyone is involved in sex is embodied with immense pleasure.. God could have created the sex of human being without pleasure just for procreation… This is a great gift from God to all his creatures.. God has given pleasure in everything..
You may wonder in the hereafter there may possibly be no children though God chooses couples .. they may live together forever in Janna but most probably without children but for sure intercourse may take place when we closely look at the verses…So it is recreation and not procreation in the hereafter.. Procreation is God’s Job.. We can’t create.. We enjoy and if we want children we look forward to it ..
I cannot agree with anyone if they say sex should be only for procreation.. never.. If it is only for Procreation I suggest to anyone just have sex only once in life time and wait perhaps God will you will have a child.. in case it didn’t happen after few months.. Try once more.. Until you find your wife pregnant.. No need to have sex everyday until she gets pregnant.. Recreation is manifest even those whose purpose of sex is only Procreation..
Simply don’t stress on things that God has not restricted… while God is so merciful and kind and He has given us ways of pleasure and enjoy it.. be thankful… so simple..

[jkhan]

There are many benefits of conquering desires. By way of illustration, a man who desires to buy and eat chocholate (with white refined sugar and GMO soy lecithin) every day, will benefit both economically and health wise by conquering his desire. To put it in another way, a man who buys and eats a chocholate daily due to his immense desire for this food product, will benefit both economically and health wise if he stops buying and eating chocholate every day. Also, some companies in the cocoa industry profit from slave labor. So if the man stops buying chocholate made with slave labor, then he stops supporting slave labor. If enough people stop buying chocholate made with slave labor, then those companies that use slave labor, will be forced to change their unethical ways in order to continue making profit. This will benefit those who work on cocoa farms immensely.

When it comes to desires, numerous people think there are physical, mental and spiritual benefits of practicising sexual abstincence/semen retention. Throughout history, a lot of great minds practiced some form of sexual abstinence/semen retention. The following thinkers practiced some form of of sexual abstinence/semen retention; Hippocrates, Galen, Pythagoras, Plato, Leonardo Da Vinci, A. P. J. Abdul Kalam, Nikola Tesla, Steve Jobs, Albert Einstein, Sigmund Freud, Soren Kierkegaard, Friedrich Nietzsche, Michelangelo, Aristotle, Baruch Spinoza, Ludwig Van Beethoven, William Shakespeare, Isaac Newton, Herbert Spencer, Saigo Takamori, Henry David Thoreau, Mohandas Gandhi and Orville and Wilbur Wright. If you'd like to read some articles about the benefits of sexual abstinence/semen retention from the SR community, please check here and here.

If you'd like to read some books about the benefits of sexual abstinence/semen retention, then please check the books below.

I heartily recommend the following books

• The coiled serpent by C.J. Van Vliet
• Brain Gain by His Holiness Danavir Goswami
• Libido Dominandi by Michael Jones
• Practical methods to insure success by Hiram E. Butler
• Continence and its creative power by Swami Jagadiswarananda
• Science Discovers The Physiological Value Of Continence by Raymond W. Bernard

I think the articles and books above are interesting and educational and contain some useful/helpful information about the benefits of sexual abstinence and conquering desires such as lust. But I don't agree with everything that's mentioned in those articles and books. The articles and books above are archaic and a little extreme, in my opinion. But I still think it's worth reading them. However, I think its prudent/reasonable to read them with a grain of salt. Also, I'd never put the knowledge in those articles and books on a pedestal. As I have previously mentioned in this thread, I think the most profound information about how to conquer desires is in the quran.

The quran declares that the benefit of conquering desires is the attainment of paradise (7940-41).

I'd like to end this post with a few quotes on desires.

"Complete abstinence is easier than perfect moderation." - Augustine of Hippo

"Ever fed, never satisfied. Never fed, ever satisfied." - Paramahansa Yogananda

Again MP you are repeating keeping the excess in your mind... God has clearly stated excess in anything is not good... Coz our body and mind is not created to adjust for excess.. try to grasp it in your own way.. There is no benefit in conquering DESIRE... yes, conquer the excess.. fine.. it should be done.. that's better in any angle.. but not desire..

by the way highlighted verse never speaks of desire.. it is inclination / tendency

7940-1 But as for he who feared the position of his Lord and prevented the soul from inclination / tendency, Then indeed, Paradise will be refuge.

get the correct meaning of Hawa by this verse 4135 "So follow not (hawa)inclination, lest you not be just.... "

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace jkhan,

Your topic is conquer desire… Desire shouldn’t be conquered.. coz desire is part and parcel of life.. Excessive nature in anything is not desire … I want to eat Chocolate cake … I sense a desire.. so I go to a café and enjoy a piece or couple of pieces of them… desire accomplished… what if I eat again and again on the same day and continue everyday… it is not desire … it is madness and excess… Don’t complicate desire with excessive approach.. Excess always not good… and never recommended by God… They eat like cattle… what does it mean? One thing for sure is excess…
This is the definition of DESIRE “a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen”
So.. try to grasp within that…

Thank you for your reply.

In my studies of the Quran, I have found several verses which urge us to conquer desires (2543 and 7940-41). To put it in another way, there are several verses in the quran which urge us to keep desires. It seems that if desires are not kept in check, they can become excessive. Case in point Man A desires to eat chocholate. But he keeps his desires in check and only eats chocholate 1-2 times per week. Man B desires to eat chocholate. But he doesn't keep his desires in check and ends up eating chocholate 2-4 times every day. Both Man A and Man B desire to eat chocholate, but one of them keeps his desires in check, while the other one doesn't keep his desires in check. Thus, excessives desire are a reality. If you don't agree with regard to this, then let's agree to disagree.

By the way, please read the definition of the word "conquer" from Collins dictionary below.

conquer (ˈkɒŋkə )

verb

1. to overcome (an enemy, army, etc); defeat
2. to overcome (an obstacle, feeling, desire, etc); surmount
3. (transitive)
   to gain possession or control of by or as if by force or war; win
4. (transitive)
   to gain the love, sympathy, etc, of (someone) by seduction or force of personality

(Source https//www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/conquer)

[The_Middle_Path]

Again MP you are repeating keeping the excess in your mind... God has clearly stated excess in anything is not good... Coz our body and mind is not created to adjust for excess.. try to grasp it in your own way.. There is no benefit in conquering DESIRE... yes, conquer the excess.. fine.. it should be done.. that's better in any angle.. but not desire..

One either conquers desires (keeps them under control), or the desires can end up becoming excessive. It's as simple as that.

by the way highlighted verse never speaks of desire.. it is inclination / tendency

7940-1 But as for he who feared the position of his Lord and prevented the soul from inclination / tendency, Then indeed, Paradise will be refuge.

get the correct meaning of Hawa by this verse 4135 "So follow not (hawa)inclination, lest you not be just.... "

But unto him who shall have stood in fear of his Sustainer's Presence, and held back his inner self from base desires, paradise will truly be the goal!
7940-41

The word/term (l-hawā) in verse 79.40, is derived from the root Ha-Waw-Ya. Based on my knowledge of the quran, the word/term l-hawā means vain/base desires, not inclination.

If you claim that the word/term (l-hawā) in verse 7940 means inclination rather than base/vain desires, then please prove it.

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace fellow members,

If you'd like to read more books about the benefits of sexual abstinence/restraint, then please check the books below.

I heartily recommend these books

• Sexual Force or the Winged Dragon by Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov
• Self-Restraint vs Self-Indulgence by Mahatma Gandhi
• Climbing mount purgatorio by Shaykh Hamza Yusuf
• Sex and culture by J.D. Unwin

By the way, I'd like to share some information about the book "Sex and culture by J.D. Unwin" here. I don't agree with everything in the book. Nevertheless, I still think it's worth reading it. Because it contains some crucial historical information.

In Sex and Culture Unwin studied 80 primitive tribes and 6 known civilizations through 5,000 years of history and found a positive correlation between the cultural achievement of a people and the amount of sexual restraint which they observed. The author finds that the most culturally successful groups always exhibit lifelong monogamous relationships which include sexual abstinence outside of marriage. According to Unwin, after a nation becomes prosperous it becomes increasingly liberal with regard to sexual morality and as a result loses its cohesion, its impetus and its purpose, ultimately having a negative effect on society "The whole of human history does not contain a single instance of a group becoming civilized unless it has been absolutely monogamous, nor is there any example of a group retaining its culture after it has adopted less rigorous customs."

(Source http//www.artandpopularculture.com/J._D._Unwin)

[jkhan]

Peace jkhan,

Thank you for your reply.

In my studies of the Quran, I have found several verses which urge us to conquer desires (2543 and 7940-41). To put it in another way, there are several verses in the quran which urge us to keep desires. It seems that if desires are not kept in check, they can become excessive. Case in point Man A desires to eat chocholate. But he keeps his desires in check and only eats chocholate 1-2 times per week. Man B desires to eat chocholate. But he doesn't keep his desires in check and ends up eating chocholate 2-4 times every day. Both Man A and Man B desire to eat chocholate, but one of them keeps his desires in check, while the other one doesn't keep his desires in check. Thus, excessives desire are a reality. If you don't agree with regard to this, then let's agree to disagree.

By the way, please read the definition of the word "conquer" from Collins dictionary below.

conquer (ˈkɒŋkə )

verb

1. to overcome (an enemy, army, etc); defeat
2. to overcome (an obstacle, feeling, desire, etc); surmount
3. (transitive)
   to gain possession or control of by or as if by force or war; win
4. (transitive)
   to gain the love, sympathy, etc, of (someone) by seduction or force of personality

(Source https//www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/conquer)

absolute repetition my dear... can't help unless you look at it how it deserve..

[jkhan]

One either conquers desires (keeps them under control), or the desires can end up becoming excessive. It's as simple as that.

That's what is called excess.. so the fault is not in desire but in excess... try to grasp pls... whatever

okay let me put it this way .. River is river as long it stays with its limit... it means be a river.. but when it goes beyond river bank then it is not a river, it is flood... so being a river is absolutely fine.. (DESIRE).... but breaking the edges / river bank and overflow won't help.. EXCESS / TRANSGRESS

But unto him who shall have stood in fear of his Sustainer's Presence, and held back his inner self from base desires, paradise will truly be the goal!
7940-41

The word/term (l-hawā) in verse 79.40, is derived from the root Ha-Waw-Ya. Based on my knowledge of the quran, the word/term l-hawā means vain/base desires, not inclination.

If you claim that the word/term (l-hawā) in verse 7940 means inclination rather than base/vain desires, then please prove it.

Well ... i am patient with you, so i keep replying though i have replied in clarity..
okay let me clarify further...

7937-41
So as for he who transgressed (Thagha)
And preferred(Athara) the life of the world,
Then indeed, Hellfire will be refuge
But as for he who feared the position of his Lord and prevented the soul from inclination (Hawa),
Then indeed, Paradise will be refuge

read above verses which you have concern...note the word Thagha/Transgress.. then after transgress only one prefers the life of this world... preferring the life of this is no harm.. love what you do .. love what you live.. that's natural.. but don't transgress.. what transgress here? everything in life of this world.. Choosing Evil Path, Choosing Forbidden, Choosing Impossible etc etc.. and in the end relevant to this thread Choosing Excess...

Don't you like the life of this world? Of course i do but not the expense of the life hereafter.. How would you lose or end up in Hell fire? by transgressing and fall trap to life of this world in love...
So manifest..

Opposite to this, who is successful? the one who fears the stand / position of God and prevent the soul from inclination ... inclination to what? inclination to what others transgressed and failed..

meaning / definition of INCLINATION "a person's natural tendency or urge to act or feel in a particular way; a disposition or propensity."

so MP... desire is just part of Inclination... so Hawa / Inclination and Yurid / (Wish/desire/intend)..
in some verses hawa may look to mean desire but if you look at it deeply it is inclination that propel them to desire...

DESIRE Meaning "a strong feeling of wanting to have something or wishing for something to happen."

huge difference between INCLINATOIN and DESIRE...
handshake

[The_Middle_Path]

Let me add two words that I forgot to add in one of the sentences in one of my previous posts in this thread. I will highlight the two words in bold in my previous post.

In my studies of the Quran, I have found several verses which urge us to conquer desires (2543 and 7940-41). To put it in another way, there are several verses in the quran which urge us to keep desires in check. It seems that if desires are not kept in check, they can become excessive. Case in point Man A desires to eat chocholate. But he keeps his desires in check and only eats chocholate 1-2 times per week. Man B desires to eat chocholate. But he doesn't keep his desires in check and ends up eating chocholate 2-4 times every day. Both Man A and Man B desire to eat chocholate, but one of them keeps his desires in check, while the other one doesn't keep his desires in check. Thus, excessives desire are a reality. If you don't agree with regard to this, then let's agree to disagree.

[The_Middle_Path]

Peace jkhan,

Thank you for your replies.

In my view, you haven't been able to prove that the word/term (l-hawā) in verse 7940 means inclination rather than base/vain desires.

Anyhow, I'm not going to get into a further semantic dispute about what the word/term hawa means. Nevertheless, I'm grateful for your meaningful and helpful/useful posts. I appreciate them.