Fasting until night not sunset
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peace
3637 واىه and sign لهم for them الىل the night نسلخ we withdraw منه from it النهر the daytime فاذا so when of/behold هم themselves مظلمون dimness being
above is allegoric doesn't mean completely dark
literal definition once the sun falls below horizon
911 والشمس wal-shamsi/and (by) the sun (f) وضحها waduhaha/and (by) brightness its (f)
912 والقمر wal-qamari/and (by) the moon (m) اذا idha/when of تلها talaha/follows it (f)
913 والنهر wal-nahari/and (by) the daytime (m) اذا idha/when of جلها jallaha/display it (f)
914 والىل wa-al-layli/and (by) the night (m) اذا idha/when of ىغشها yaghshaha/covered it (f) -
1310 It is the same concerning you whether one conceals speech or one publicizes it and whether one is hidden by night or conspicuous by day.
night and day verses are very clear in Quran and making it complicated unnecessarily is effort worth nothing...
chapter 91 is very clear as we have discussed many times in this forum.. it is SUN+BRIGHTNESS/LIGHT... that's what get covered by NIGHT...
if in the First verse of chapter 91 only SUN is there it very fair enough feminine word usage is referring to SUN... but Wa'shamsi Waduhaha is one verse.. it is two in one.. it is dual.. feminine and masculine is intermingled, ... then from second verse onwards only God uses word 'Idha" (when)...
it is obvious... and non one can take it as only sun.. God didn't use only SUN in the first verse of 9101... more than enough evidence.. God is swearing BY not only SUN but also BY BRIGHTNESS...
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It's not assuming, everyone knows what night is. If you're saying night has light in it then what is total darkness called?
You have added another assumption = "everyone knows what night is". If you really think so, go to a park or somewhere where there are people and AFTER the sun has set, give it a minute or two, (i.e. it is clearly twilight), and ask 10 random people "what would you call this time daytime or nighttime? Let us know out of 10 how many say daytime.
And as to your question Quran tells us "ghasaq al layl" in 1778 (i.e. without twilight).
Please note that "min" is a partitive (denoting a grammatical construction used to indicate that only a part of a whole is referred to)
And a sign for them is the layl, We strip/peel/remove from it the nahar, whereupon they are those in darkness.
Also note that "whereupon" is from "fa idha" which literally means "so/then when" where "idha" is a time adverb. One can read many occurrences of "fa idha" in Quran
https//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=%3Ci*aA#(36377) -
chapter 91 is very clear as we have discussed many times in this forum.. it is SUN+BRIGHTNESS/LIGHT... that's what get covered by NIGHT...
if in the First verse of chapter 91 only SUN is there it very fair enough feminine word usage is referring to SUN... but Wa'shamsi Waduhaha is one verse.. it is two in one.. it is dual.. feminine and masculine is intermingled, ... then from second verse onwards only God uses word 'Idha" (when)...
and your point is?
واذ wa-idh/and when (time adverb past episode/event)
واذا wa-idha/and when of (time adverb present/future)
does the moon follow it i.e. the sun, yes!
does the daytime display it i.e. sun, yes!
does the night cover it i.e. the sun, yes!
can you see it i.e. sun below horizon, no! -
if in the First verse of chapter 91 only SUN is there it very fair enough feminine word usage is referring to SUN... but Wa'shamsi Waduhaha is one verse.. it is two in one.. it is dual.. feminine and masculine is intermingled, ... then from second verse onwards only God uses word 'Idha" (when)...
it is obvious... and non one can take it as only sun..
Evidence from Quranic/Arabic grammar book please, or unequivocal examples from Quran. Otherwise your claim is simply baseless conjecture.
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You have added another assumption = "everyone knows what night is". If you really think so, go to a park or somewhere where there are people and AFTER the sun has set, give it a minute or two, (i.e. it is clearly twilight), and ask 10 random people "what would you call this time daytime or nighttime? Let us know out of 10 how many say daytime.
And as to your question Quran tells us "ghasaq al layl" in 1778 (i.e. without twilight).
Please note that "min" is a partitive (denoting a grammatical construction used to indicate that only a part of a whole is referred to)
And a sign for them is the layl, We strip/peel/remove from it the nahar, whereupon they are those in darkness.
Also note that "whereupon" is from "fa idha" which literally means "so/then when" where "idha" is a time adverb. One can read many occurrences of "fa idha" in Quran
https//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=%3Ci*aA#(36377)If you think they agree with you then you should have left night as night and they would have come to the same conclusion that night is sunset. You don't need to force sunset as the interpretation but you do because you change the word.
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and your point is?
واذ wa-idh/and when (time adverb past episode/event)
واذا wa-idha/and when of (time adverb present/future)
does the moon follow it i.e. the sun, yes!
does the daytime display it i.e. sun, yes!
does the night cover it i.e. the sun, yes!
can you see it i.e. sun below horizon, no!Well Moon rotates the Earth, circling the Earth and Earth Circles the Sun … And everything moving in space… nothing follows anything.. Everything moves.. So obviously Moon doesn’t FOLLOW the Sun According to Heliocentric Model.. so don’t ask me… ask in what you believe… Following and Circling are two different things..
Unfortunately Again I repeat.. SUN + BRIGHTNESS = SUNLIGHT… God talks about both in the verse 911..
Of course Nahar / Day displays Brightness and gradually the Sun, and then Sun disappears and so does the brightness in the end… So literally NAHAR displays SUNLIGHTOf course NIGHT / Lail makes disappear / make it absent the SUNLIGHT.. … try to grasp..
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do you see sun – a luminescent bright radiant lamp below horizon, no!
105 جعل made الشمس the sun (f) ضىا diyaan/luminescence of
7116 وجعل and made الشمس the sun (f) سرجا sirajan/radiant lamp of
911 والشمس and (by) the sun (f) وضحها and (by) brightness hers/its (f)2130 اولم do they not ىر see ... 2133 ... للىل the night والنهر and the daytime والشمس and the sun والقمر and the moon كل each (all mentioned prior) فى in فلك ship ىسبحون sailing
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU
https//blogs-images.forbes.com/startswithabang/files/2018/08/not-vortex-small.gif?
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do you see sun – a luminescent bright radiant lamp below horizon, no!
105 جعل made الشمس the sun (f) ضىا diyaan/luminescence of
7116 وجعل and made الشمس the sun (f) سرجا sirajan/radiant lamp of
911 والشمس and (by) the sun (f) وضحها and (by) brightness hers/its (f)2130 اولم do they not ىر see ... 2133 ... للىل the night والنهر and the daytime والشمس and the sun والقمر and the moon كل each (all mentioned prior) فى in فلك ship ىسبحون sailing
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_NTU
https//blogs-images.forbes.com/startswithabang/files/2018/08/not-vortex-small.gif?
Poor chap you are.. You see it or you don't see it, it is luminous always.. Nothing can can take away its brightness... All our weak vision... It never goes below horizon but it seems... So God's verses clear.. By the sun and its Brightness...
For example God says Moon is Muneer/light.. Is Moon Muneer always? You can see moon at day time without any light on it.. Does it Muneer? God didn't say Moon is Muneer at NIGHT?.. So dude be positive in what you say... Below horizon object may dissapear for our vision.. But brightness didn't go away ..and the brightness is only from Sun.. When both dissapears it called Night... Yes sun is Siraj always and needless to say sun is Siraj at DAY time....Let me ask this again.. Will I get weak answer or strong answer..
2187 Literally sex is allowed at the NIGHTS / Lail of fasting 2187 .. Do you know definition of Night.. Lol rotfl
I got a bizzare answer from someone I can't remember last time saying people are busy at Fajr to sun rise so no time for sex... rotflWhat difference it makes if God kept fasting from Sun rise to sunset literally as per your Day... Why God so specific going into Fajr and white thread manifest from darkness. So one end people have to verify before stopping eating at Fajr.. Other end well just wait for sunset.. Literally waiting for sunset.. But God never used sunset.. You wait for sunset but God never said sunset..did He? But you take and give definition to night that begins at sunset..
Well dude.. Just so curious.. Who clarifies you what is sunset.. Is just little portion of sun set so night begins. You swallow your food.. . Or fully dissapear.. Same for Rising. As far as I know little portion sun start dissapear people do start breakfast...
Let me extend further... Coz I need clarification from those who are against my understanding coz I am ready to leave my understanding to whatever the best understanding.. So I follow best be it through me or others..Two ends of Nahar is mentioned in Quran.. One for you according to your tone should be Sun rise why the other becomes Sunset.. While it is the same for Night.. The rise of sun and setting of sun are two ends of Night according to your acceptance .. Calling it merely two ends of Nahar won't make any sense. Two ends of Nahar makes sense by all means that they are two twilight (civil) periods of nahar..
Common sense.. If we consider you are right then neither Sunset nor sun rise make it ends of Nahar.. It is a circle of black and white.. And it is not a straight line of black and separate white line.. In a circle of black and white if one goes and stand any end it is end of both black and white.. So calling sunset and sunrise two ends of nahar is sheer meaningless..
but note well.. Nahar in which are twilights is definitely two ends of nahar. It never belongs to Night.. One which belongs can only take the possession to call two ends.. So simple but you are blinded... Coz sun set of sunrise neither belongs to nahar or Lail according to your definition of night and day...BTW thank you for the animated picture.. There are more real looking animated videos.. Try one of those.. This looks old fashioned...
Oops I forgot to say what I really wanted to say when I looked t your animated fancy video... You know what I remembered... It is like this...
"Washamsi wadhuhaha ...
"Wal Ardhi idha thalaha...Well... That's missing isn't it...
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Earth is not a flat coin (heads and tails)
It’s simple as daylight
Sun (f) visible “white thread” then start
913 والنهر wal-nahari/and (by) the daytime (m) اذا idha/when of جلها jallaha/display it (f)Sun (f) dips below horizon (not visible) stop
914 والىل wa-al-layli/and (by) the night (m) اذا idha/when of ىغشها yaghshaha/covered it (f)peace
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Interesting that sunnis pray at sunset (maghrib) and break their fast after sunset but also pray the night prayer (isha) like hour or hour and a half after sunset. But when it says fast until the night they don't fast until Isha prayer but only until maghrib. Very inconsistent.
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Interesting that sunnis pray at sunset (maghrib) and break their fast after sunset but also pray the night prayer (isha) like hour or hour and a half after sunset. But when it says fast until the night they don't fast until Isha prayer but only until maghrib. Very inconsistent.
Just leave Sunnis aside.. They do so many things neglecting clear words of Quran... It is fruitless talking about their practices... At least people who believe in Quran alone do argue.. Perhaps not known to them yet that breakfast to Night.. But sometimes some people may be adament...
Anyway the job of Object sun is to be Glory and be brilliance.. That's its light.. If one doesn't understand that Civil light at dawn and dusk is coz of Sun and its glory then he failed his perception...
I was at the beach last weekend.. Sun did set beautifully.. I could see all as I did see while object sun was in my vision... After 25 mnts.. I started to feel darkness creeping in the atmosphere... This is common.. Isn't it.. But I stayed there one more hour.. The west where sun set had little effect of light even when I was to leave.. But when I turned east.. The sky was pitch dark... West sky at the same time with some effect of light.. Two different things in two different direction...Try to understand those who say sunset is night.. Civil light which is coz of Sun can never be night... Aeronautical twilight is fine.. Whichever even at dawn or dusk when darkness is heavy that's night.. Even sky has little effect.. Coz which ever overpowers the other.. Same at dawn.. Though little darkness is there at dawn but glory of sun overpowers that cannot be night...
Quran verses are clear.. Read them all and be satisfied.. God will people get guided..
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Just leave Sunnis aside.. They do so many things neglecting clear words of Quran... It is fruitless talking about their practices... At least people who believe in Quran alone do argue.. Perhaps not known to them yet that breakfast to Night.. But sometimes some people may be adament...
Anyway the job of Object sun is to be Glory and be brilliance.. That's its light.. If one doesn't understand that Civil light at dawn and dusk is coz of Sun and its glory then he failed his perception...
I was at the beach last weekend.. Sun did set beautifully.. I could see all as I did see while object sun was in my vision... After 25 mnts.. I started to feel darkness creeping in the atmosphere... This is common.. Isn't it.. But I stayed there one more hour.. The west where sun set had little effect of light even when I was to leave.. But when I turned east.. The sky was pitch dark... West sky at the same time with some effect of light.. Two different things in two different direction...Try to understand those who say sunset is night.. Civil light which is coz of Sun can never be night... Aeronautical twilight is fine.. Whichever even at dawn or dusk when darkness is heavy that's night.. Even sky has little effect.. Coz which ever overpowers the other.. Same at dawn.. Though little darkness is there at dawn but glory of sun overpowers that cannot be night...
Quran verses are clear.. Read them all and be satisfied.. God will people get guided..
ThanksIt's still good to remind sunnis or anyone else who thinks it says sunset. I think I made a pretty good point since I was banned from a sunni group. Very typical of them to try and silence the truth.
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Interesting that sunnis pray at sunset (maghrib) and break their fast after sunset but also pray the night prayer (isha) like hour or hour and a half after sunset. But when it says fast until the night they don't fast until Isha prayer but only until maghrib. Very inconsistent.
To be fair Quran doesn't say "fast until isha", so for them it will depend upon if they consider any difference between when layl begins and when isha begins. If they consider them equivalent then they will be inconsistent.
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To be fair Quran doesn't say "fast until isha", so for them it will depend upon if they consider any difference between when layl begins and when isha begins. If they consider them equivalent then they will be inconsistent.
The discussion didn't last long because they said night is an hour after sunset which is when isha is, so they knew they were being inconsistent and banned me.
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To be fair Quran doesn't say "fast until isha", so for them it will depend upon if they consider any difference between when layl begins and when isha begins. If they consider them equivalent then they will be inconsistent.
Well... You a very ambiguous person when you are adament on your view...
You say to be fair Quran doesn't say "fast until Isha".. So I remind you to be fair "Quran didn't say fast ila/ to sunset'...
So for you fastbreak when sun set is right though it is not mentioned.. But it depends for them and mentioning about consistency....
Well Waqas.. Question is when Isha start for you? If I am not mistaken with my memory, Isha starts for you with Sunset.. Isn't it? So Lail start at sunset and isha start at sunset and breakfast start at sunset.. Wow what consistency...
So Guribath shams is literally isha and Guribath shams is night as well.. How come isha is super fast when just sun dissapears?Matter is clear.. Both of you I mean Waqas and sunni same track.. They both breakfast at sunset avoiding what Quran says Ila Lail.. But brave enough to say "to be fair Quran didn't say fast until Isha" ... Did Quran say fast until sunset? Where is your fairness?
I don't expect an answer from you.. Anyway.. You will never grasp with your negligence of clarity of Quran...
Strange thing is people are very quick to point out mistakes of Sunni's but it doesn't digest when Quran alone people's mistakes are pointed out..Okay.. Be happy with night begining at sunset end at sunrise.. It is a subject each individuals should self perceive with signs of God and Quran verse... Can't help..
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jkhan, what is the point in saying all that when you can simply add credibility to your position by answering the simple grammar question I asked you.
Is it because you have absolutely no evidence for your claim? What is perhaps worrying (for you) is that you claim it is so clear yet have absolutely no evidence for your position on the grammar issue.
I'm only interested in evidence-based discussion.
And as for the magical word "sunset" being specific enough to be incorporated in the command "fast until X" you can enjoy the specificity here
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610977.30
A thread which you engaged in. -
jkhan, what is the point in saying all that when you can simply add credibility to your position by answering the simple grammar question I asked you.
Is it because you have absolutely no evidence for your claim? What is perhaps worrying (for you) is that you claim it is so clear yet have absolutely no evidence for your position on the grammar issue.
I'm only interested in evidence-based discussion.
And as for the magical word "sunset" being specific enough to be incorporated in the command "fast until X" you can enjoy the specificity here
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610977.30
A thread which you engaged in.What grammar Question?
I have stated coz you deserve since you said it is fair Quran not stated to fast until Isha.. I have based on that my answer.. Take it or leave it... It is not an issue..
