Prophet marriages
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Thanks to all for their kind replies and explanation. Yes it is an old topic and I do not want to repeat the same. My question was from a different perspective as if I put myself at this times and knew the Quran and God being the source of guidance, and then I see a person chosen by God being prophet is performing certain acts then I would not be comfortable... of course its only my own inner satisfaction that I seek all of your wisdom into this subject.
ToEuphoric
I hear you buddy and I knew about putting things into perspectives. For example in villages in India during 1800-early 1900s girls were being married at the age of 14 and by 18 they had multiple children, this is not fake but real accounts. Likewise arabian culture at the time had many ills, one of them being slavery and Islam encourages many acts to gradually freeing slaves etc, same is case of burying girls alive. But for young marriages and if this act was part of the culture then, then the prophet and Quran examples were to gradually abolish it , similar to slavery but instead (if we were to believe in hadiths), it did not.... and hence it continued and then you have many examples of such marriages of rather younger girls married to sheikhs.
So please enlighten me with your Bedouin culture logic... was it to justify the prophet marriage as reported to marry a young girl of some say 6, some say 9 and some say 11 (max).To wakas
Thanks for sharing your links. I would like to ask for your understanding of the verse quoted your referred links.
Chapter 43
وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تُقْسِطُوا۟ فِى ٱلْيَتَـٰمَىٰ فَٱنكِحُوا۟ مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ ٱلنِّسَآءِ مَثْنَىٰ وَثُلَـٰثَ وَرُبَـٰعَ ۖ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلَّا تَعْدِلُوا۟ فَوَٰحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَـٰنُكُمْ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ أَدْنَىٰٓ أَلَّا تَعُولُوا۟ ٣
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then one or those your right hands possess . That is more suitable that you may not incline .Reading the arabic text (owing to my little arabic understanding), it appears to me that the addressee is the person who is somehow being given in charge or care taker of the orphan girls and although he is taking care of them but if he fears some wrong doing in this setup then he may marry them 1..4.
My question is for sure the addressee in the verse above must be a mature man (could be 40s or 50s) and the orphan girls must be some one who is not mature yet. (not like a girl of 20-30 as we dont attribute orphans to such age girl]). So with this does it not imply that it is ok for a mature man to marry an orphan GIRL.? Now if we link the verse 4-3 to 4-6 and the addressee is the same person (man or men] then perhaps it is clear that child ages are NOT allowed but still having an old age man in 50s taking charge or orphans is allowed to marry those orphan girls who just now reach marriage age say 17-19]. hence it is morally allowed as per this understanding for an aged man to marry young girls of his daughter age and there is nothing wrong in this. In which Next time I see an old sheikh in 50s with a wife or wives at ages 16-19 I should just accept it....
To Jkhan.
Can you clarify more when you mentioned "By the way marrying those who are ma malakath aymanakum may not include to these 4 numbers"Thanks
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ignore.
wrong post. -
Peace Fusion.
If one goes with the assumption that all hadiths and historical information about Muhammed are facts then does not check these with Qoran there will be problems and confusion.
What does Qoran say about the life of Muhammed? what are the problematic verses that you struggle with ? His wives ? What details in these verses do not make sense or confuse you?
Then there is the issue of "example" to us. How can someone of the past be an example to us if we do not witness and see how they live?
Did Muhammed follow Qoran? Then we can also follow Qoran that is all we have as a solid example.
What does Qoran say to us instructions and command wise? Follow the best path indicated /instructed in it.
Is there a problem in Qoran s way to live? Where?
What Muhammed did or how he lived is in the past. He will have what he earned...etc
We have Qoran and we will be judged by what we will do .
If you find issues with Qoran ,then that is a different matter. What hadiths, history or anyone writes or says about Muhammed is irrelevant unless you have evidence that Qoran confirms it for you.
GOD bless you.
Peace.Dear Good logic,
The logic says that we cant just put all history behind us and not make use of it to understand and be guided or guide people?
We cant just say all hadiths are fakes and all historical facts are fabricated and we just accept Quran with a translation that suits us?
Quran was revealed over a period of time and for sure it must have some verses which are in response to the incidents which happened in prophets life.
Yes we may not know the actual context of each verse but surely in essence dont you think that those verses of quran , many of em would have been revealed to prophet due to certain prevailing situations or conditions then?
Many of the universal verses I do agree are for humanity as a whole but then there are verses which are revealed to address a situation which quran may not give the whole context... hence we revert to hadiths or the history for our understanding and we cant take THOSE verses in universal context.
For example take the verse Chapter 43 it must have been revealed to address a prevailing situation then. So scholars have but to re enact the scene.
For example GA Pervez translated the 43 as below"But the problem of orphans (or those left alone in the society) is not solved simply by taking care of their property – it has other implications as well. For instance, if a situation arises, out of a war or otherwise – where a large number of men die, leaving behind widows and orphans, or you have a large number of marriageable women who cannot find husbands (4/127) and they cannot marry outside your circle; so if you cannot find an equitable solution to this problem then permission is hereby given to you to relax the Law of monogamy and those amongst you who can afford it and can treat all justly can marry two or three or four women of their liking. But if you fear that you cannot do justice, then only one or the female captives who are already in your charge. This will relieve you from the burden of a large family. "
Thank you
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Dear Good logic,
The logic says that we cant just put all history behind us and not make use of it to understand and be guided or guide people?
We cant just say all hadiths are fakes and all historical facts are fabricated and we just accept Quran with a translation that suits us?
Quran was revealed over a period of time and for sure it must have some verses which are in response to the incidents which happened in prophets life.
Yes we may not know the actual context of each verse but surely in essence dont you think that those verses of quran , many of em would have been revealed to prophet due to certain prevailing situations or conditions then?
Many of the universal verses I do agree are for humanity as a whole but then there are verses which are revealed to address a situation which quran may not give the whole context... hence we revert to hadiths or the history for our understanding and we cant take THOSE verses in universal context.
For example take the verse Chapter 43 it must have been revealed to address a prevailing situation then. So scholars have but to re enact the scene.
For example GA Pervez translated the 43 as below"But the problem of orphans (or those left alone in the society) is not solved simply by taking care of their property – it has other implications as well. For instance, if a situation arises, out of a war or otherwise – where a large number of men die, leaving behind widows and orphans, or you have a large number of marriageable women who cannot find husbands (4/127) and they cannot marry outside your circle; so if you cannot find an equitable solution to this problem then permission is hereby given to you to relax the Law of monogamy and those amongst you who can afford it and can treat all justly can marry two or three or four women of their liking. But if you fear that you cannot do justice, then only one or the female captives who are already in your charge. This will relieve you from the burden of a large family. "
Thank you
Peace... Bro..
MA malakat aymanakum normally translated as those right hand possess...
BTW... Don't complicate the verse 43 brother it never permits or even hints to marry girls ..
It clearly sounds if you read carefully with grammar and context (for me) when a woman becomes widow for whatever reasons it seems some people have taken responsibility of orphans (boys and girls) but if anyone find it hard to take care of these (yatama) orphans in a way they deserve and if they fear they are finding it difficult and handling poorly they have the option of marrying the women (mothers) of those orphans.. That's so obvious...
Meanwhile.. God has clearly stated who are allowed to marry in that list girls who are underaged is not at all mentioned.. everywhere it is mentioned women.. Not even mentioned yatama... Read again 43 and ponder.
So when a person marry a widow woman/en then looking after these orphans will become more simple. It benefits both women and orphans and the husband marries. Rather than just take care of orphans...
Don't think that while mother is alive how can children be orphans... That happened in many society... And still happens and even orphanage do accept fatherless children while mother is around.. Thank you.. -
God's law is not based on fruitless and ignorant cultures... God always corrected the wrong path with His right path... Not everyone in Arabia were Badu and not necessary they all follow Bedouin culture..
What an absolutely ignorant comment. You're forcing your opinion and creating a God out of it. That's shirk in itself.
God doesn't follow your false beliefs. God isn't the way you want him to be. You're a lowly creation that cannot force God into anything.
If you find something abhorrent doesn't mean God will find it abhorrent.
Everyone followed Bedouin culture and customs. The entire Arabic language is Bedouin.
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ToEuphoric
I hear you buddy and I knew about putting things into perspectives. For example in villages in India during 1800-early 1900s girls were being married at the age of 14 and by 18 they had multiple children, this is not fake but real accounts. Likewise arabian culture at the time had many ills, one of them being slavery and Islam encourages many acts to gradually freeing slaves etc, same is case of burying girls alive. But for young marriages and if this act was part of the culture then, then the prophet and Quran examples were to gradually abolish it , similar to slavery but instead (if we were to believe in hadiths), it did not.... and hence it continued and then you have many examples of such marriages of rather younger girls married to sheikhs.
So please enlighten me with your Bedouin culture logic... was it to justify the prophet marriage as reported to marry a young girl of some say 6, some say 9 and some say 11 (max).You're already operating on false assumptions and belief.
The point is your personal beliefs and feelings do not matter. Whether you agree with it or not has absolutely zero value or even consideration. Morality is based on Allah's rules.
What if the Prophet DID marry a young girl? In fact, it's most likely he did marry a young girl than he didn't as most historical accounts point to it.
Prophet was allowed to do things that the average person was not. So no verse in the Quran prohibits that.
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Peace Fusion.
You say, quote
"The logic says that we cant just put all history behind us and not make use of it to understand and be guided or guide people?
We cant just say all hadiths are fakes and all historical facts are fabricated and we just accept Quran with a translation that suits us?
Quran was revealed over a period of time and for sure it must have some verses which are in response to the incidents which happened in prophets life."We cannot be guided by anyone or anything else other than GOD and using only His revelations/instructions as far as our salvation is concerned.
As for hadiths , history, Science, ...Men s versions of things they are there for filtering it and taking the best from it. Use for other than salvation. Of course some of these may be very good and beneficial in our life.
If one wants to mix another authority for their salvation with GODs authority and wants to use other than Qoran/scripture for guidance, it is their choice.I am only saying check with Qoran what anyone is saying about the instructions and commands of GOD.
We are clearly told Muhammed followed GOD s commands and instructions /Qoran. So where does Qoran give the age of any of his wives?
Besides if GOD ask us to follow the best path indicated for us in Qoran, then Muhammed would have done the same.
Do you find anything contradicting GODs instructions that Muhammed did or followed according to Qoran apart from what he was being told to correct when in error?
That is the main thing .
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
You're already operating on false assumptions and belief.
What if the Prophet DID marry a young girl? In fact, it's most likely he did marry a young girl than he didn't as most historical accounts point to it.
Prophet was allowed to do things that the average person was not. So no verse in the Quran prohibits that.
So that means you have absolutely no issue with the following historical account.
https//sunnah.com/bukhari5134
Narrated `Aishathat the Prophet (ﷺ) married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said I have been informed that `Aisha remained with the Prophet (ﷺ) for nine years (i.e. till his death).
حَدَّثَنَا مُعَلَّى بْنُ أَسَدٍ، حَدَّثَنَا وُهَيْبٌ، عَنْ هِشَامِ بْنِ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ سِتِّ سِنِينَ، وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهْىَ بِنْتُ تِسْعِ سِنِينَ. قَالَ هِشَامٌ وَأُنْبِئْتُ أَنَّهَا كَانَتْ عِنْدَهُ تِسْعَ سِنِينَ.
That means the age was 9 years old when the sexual relationship happened..... I just cant get around even if they say this was the NORM in those times. Its morally wrong. Not to me only but do a survey and you would get 99% raising eyebrows on such a marriage.
Anyway I am not saying anything except what I agree with good logic and jaffer that characteristics of Prophet as told in Quran contradicts the historical events.
A 53 year old prophet marrying a 6 years and indulge in a relationship at her 9 years is beyond my understanding.
And I see that the above hadith is what almost all schools of thought agreed through out history - recently only few people are trying to prove that she was 17-19 years.Two video. please turn one english subs.
Traditional schools of thought
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLWxhn3PmvkRefuting the traditional approach
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LAS1PuQE7kThanks
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Peace Brother Fusion,
I am not bothered by his-story. I am more concerned with my salvation. At least Musa's murder case is scriptural. Muhammad's wives ages are not scriptural. therefore irrelevant. If history is one's source of salvation or needed to prove scripture, I have no problem with their choice but for me only what Allah says is absolutely true, outside of that to me the rest is speculation.
peace
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God's law is not based on fruitless and ignorant cultures... God always corrected the wrong path with His right path... Not everyone in Arabia were Badu and not necessary they all follow Bedouin culture..
above is my comment...
What an absolutely ignorant comment. You're forcing your opinion and creating a God out of it. That's shirk in itself.
God doesn't follow your false beliefs. God isn't the way you want him to be. You're a lowly creation that cannot force God into anything.
If you find something abhorrent doesn't mean God will find it abhorrent.
Everyone followed Bedouin culture and customs. The entire Arabic language is Bedouin.
Look dude... your arrogant approach won't solve critical issues within your mind... at the same time i am not insisting anyone take the view of mine rather i present my understanding so does everyone presents their understanding not beyond that... but every understanding should have a logic and should not go contrary to basic principles of the book..
Blue highlighted what is wrong in it? elaborate rationally if you wish..
Red highlighted... Go read all Badwi verses in Quran and come to conclusion who are Bedouin... In general who are these nomadic people wherever in the world..."
12100 "And he raised his parents upon the throne, and they bowed to him in prostration. And he said, "O my father, this is the explanation of my vision of before. My Lord has made it reality. And He was certainly good to me when He took me out of prison and brought you from bedouin (Badwi ) life after Satan had induced between me and my brothers. Indeed, my Lord is Subtle in what He wills. Indeed, it is He who is the Knowing, the Wise."
While there are Badwi (Migrating Style) lifestyle during the time of Yaqub and Yousuf, in cities there were Sedentary lifestyle well accepted ... Sedentary lifestyle only makes in any culture big empires and their own languages.. Meanwhile Arabic is well known to be born from Aramaic or Semitic languages.. A pure sound language style cannot be born through a nomadic or for that matter from Badwi lifestyle since they tend to shift place to place and mingle with numerous cultures..
Almost all prophets were sent to Townships and not Badwis... Township should have their own language to be sent with messengers...
Where is your proof to substantiate that through Quran that from Badwi only Arabic language is rooted.. No way... No pure language can be born through Badwi style or even nomadic styles which can overpower empire/territorial lifestyle... Badwi / nomadic languages are transitory according to places and tend to fade off with time..Why everyone needs to follow Bedouin lifestyle while established townships are already around... Who would prefer Bedouin lifestyle rather than who doesn't have a permanent place and solid environment to livelihood..
Established people don't move in the yester year.. unless they face with huge natural disasters..Rest of your statements are aroused without being patience of mind and not being able to accommodate opposite opinions..
Note A'RAB in quran always appeared very later revelations.. mainly in chapter 09 and 33 & 48 these were very late revelations in my understanding of quran.. A'rab are not Bedouins by any means.. They are well settle bunch of people possibly with wealth...
Thank you... -
Needless to go into details of what happened in India over the issue of Prophet marrying Ayesha at the age where she was only a child and the person (who is a woman of some minster of govt) only said that she mentioned what is mentioned in so many islamic books/hadiths.
My question isWhy prophet married so many women around 10-12 I heard. Was it to set an example of marrying widows and orphans? i cant get around this. This means it would be a sunna for every muslim man to just repeat the same and marry multiple? I heard its 4 as limit per Quran but then why Prophet kept more than 4 wives at a time(violation of quran verse)? Sunni says this was special permission for Prophet, again not understanding the wisdom.
Even if Ayehs age was 18-23, still why did the prophet find it necessary being in 53+ to marry a girl age of her daughter? i mean it is legally allowed but morally prophet should set an example of Not?. In todays time if a man in 50s marry a girl of his daughter age, people do not generally like this concept? morally not a wise thing to set an example. hence we see many sheiks or so called scholars in 50s marrying teen age girls? - because of what was reported with the prophet.
The only motive as i could understand is for lust of young girl by the so called old age men? However I read that in hadiths AYEHSA was proposed by the God thru angel as a wife for the prophet..? Am not saying i believe in these tales but then sunni people had to come up with such hadith to justify while in the first place if prophet did not marry such young girl, this would not be need.Please note am not disrespecting or anything, its just i cant get past this concept that if i was in those times and i see the prophet am following setting an example, in his 50s marrying a virgin girl more than half his age? Would be uncomfortable?
Unless the whole historical facts are WRONG. As some says even the age of khadija being 40+ and widowed is also fabricated.
please commentIts based on hadith sources. Not reliable.
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peace,
To wakas
Thanks for sharing your links. I would like to ask for your understanding of the verse quoted your referred links.I recommend re-reading the links, and translations carefully, as it seems you have misunderstood even the basics in them
https//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=31
https//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=40
