Marrying modern day christians is haram based on Quran

Almaz

then if you use your logic perfectly for 423 why not use the same logic perfectly to 55...
So God has permitted the foods of people of the book ONLY FOR MEN?

It is because they are two different scenarios. It says chaste woman, thats why that part only applies to men. In 2221 and 6010, where the prohibitions are made against kuffar and mushrikeen, it mentions both men and woman. If an exemption was going to be made to marry men from ahl ul kitab then it would’ve been stated. Im not the one that is assuming, it would be an assumption to think that because god made an exemption for woman of ahl ul kitab, then there is an exemption for their men too. If there was an exemption for their men, then it would’ve been stated. There is no exemption for their men, therefore haram

Almaz

Peace

If you read the Arabic of this verse it says 'mushrikeen' not 'kufar' who are forbidden to be married...

'Do not marry polytheistic women until they believe; for a believing slave-woman is better than a free polytheist, even though she may look pleasant to you. And do not marry your women to polytheistic men until they believe, for a believing slave-man is better than a free polytheist, even though he may look pleasant to you. They invite ˹you˺ to the Fire while Allah invites ˹you˺ to Paradise and forgiveness by His grace.1 He makes His revelations clear to the people so perhaps they will be mindful.' 2221

Isn't there a difference between kufar and mushrikeen? Mushrikeen are idol worshippers as I understand and I think there's a distinction between Christians and mushrikeen in the Qur'an (if I remember correctly)...

Salam there is a different verse. Quran 6010

jkhan

Peace

If you read the Arabic of this verse it says 'mushrikeen' not 'kufar' who are forbidden to be married...

'Do not marry polytheistic women until they believe; for a believing slave-woman is better than a free polytheist, even though she may look pleasant to you. And do not marry your women to polytheistic men until they believe, for a believing slave-man is better than a free polytheist, even though he may look pleasant to you. They invite ˹you˺ to the Fire while Allah invites ˹you˺ to Paradise and forgiveness by His grace.1 He makes His revelations clear to the people so perhaps they will be mindful.' 2221

Isn't there a difference between kufar and mushrikeen? Mushrikeen are idol worshippers as I understand and I think there's a distinction between Christians and mushrikeen in the Qur'an (if I remember correctly)...

kufar means deny in general .. it is just a word to deny no correlation with faith..
Shirk is associating not only with idols but in any form which is equaling to God.. Taking a book other than God's for salvation is for me shirk as well ...
in the end DENYING/KUFR is taking place.. no issue..

@ Almaz...
look again the verse Sarah brought...
it says dont marry Shirk woman ... fine.. accepted but ALLOWED ... when the same Shirk woman becomes a believer.... So use common sense..
A Chrisitian (just a race) already a BELIEVER and why can't marry?
Shirk man a family can give their daughter when he reformed and become believer then why can't a believing woman cannot marry believing man who is jew christian... where is your perfect logic

Almaz

of course no logic at all.. no difference to hadith followers.. why to be shameful to say the truth..

Brother, just because you cannot see the logic doesn’t mean it is not there.

I think its better if we keep the discourse respectful, at the end of the day we are both muslims trying to find the truth to the best of our abilities.

jkhan

It is because they are two different scenarios. It says chaste woman, thats why that part only applies to men. In 2221 and 6010, where the prohibitions are made against kuffar and mushrikeen, it mentions both men and woman. If an exemption was going to be made to marry men from ahl ul kitab then it would’ve been stated. Im not the one that is assuming, it would be an assumption to think that because god made an exemption for woman of ahl ul kitab, then there is an exemption for their men too. If there was an exemption for their men, then it would’ve been stated. There is no exemption for their men, therefore haram

So your logic says Men doesn't need to be chaste.. come on give me a break...
Are you man or woman... why you so much support men... you sound like woman..

jkhan

Brother, just because you cannot see the logic doesn’t mean it is not there.

I think its better if we keep the discourse respectful, at the end of the day we are both muslims trying to find the truth to the best of our abilities.

cant help if you find it hard.. i have not used anything illogical or personal attack.. i have spoken the truth.. truth how conventional muslims do perceive in general..

Almaz

kufar means deny in general .. it is just a word to deny no correlation with faith..
Shirk is associating not only with idols but in any form which is equaling to God.. Taking a book other than God's for salvation is for me shirk as well ...
in the end DENYING/KUFR is taking place.. no issue..

@ Almaz...
look again the verse Sarah brought...
it says dont marry Shirk woman ... fine.. accepted but ALLOWED ... when the same Shirk woman becomes a believer.... So use common sense..
A Chrisitian (just a race) already a BELIEVER and why can't marry?
Shirk man a family can give their daughter when he reformed and become believer then why can't a believing woman cannot marry believing man who is jew christian... where is your perfect logic

This is not correct, when the quran talks about kuffur, it is talking about people that deny Islam

Also the verse about shirk does prohibit marriage with mushrikeen.

Almaz

So your logic says Men doesn't need to be chaste.. come on give me a break...
Are you man or woman... why you so much support men... you sound like woman..

You missed the point, my point was not about chastity, my point was that it says woman.

My gender has no bearing on the discussion. Why do you keep resorting to ad hominen attacks

Also it is alot easier for a man to drive a woman away from her faith than vice versa. That is a possible reason why it remains haram for woman.

jkhan

This is not correct, when the quran talks about kuffur, it is talking about people that deny Islam

Also the verse about shirk does prohibit marriage with mushrikeen.

go pls... study all kufr verses and shirk verses in quran then speak.. thats better.. no comment kufr .,..

Almaz

So your logic says Men doesn't need to be chaste.. come on give me a break...
Are you man or woman... why you so much support men... you sound like woman..

There are other verses in the quran that says chaste men are for chaste woman. I don’t remember exactly

jkhan

You missed the point, my point was not about chastity, my point was that it says woman.

My gender has no bearing on the discussion. Why do you keep resorting to ad hominen attacks

Also it is alot easier for a man to drive a woman away from her faith than vice versa. That is a possible reason why it remains haram for woman.

So believing men of Christians do change women after they marry... So Believing men is just for names.. Only Ummi believers are trustable and not Jews or Christians or sabian who are genuinely believers... well ..
think in different level dude.. asking the gender of a person is not ad hominen attack.. just get some ideas of the person who debates relevant gender issues.. try to grasp..

jkhan

Let me ask a common question.. so hope you would get ....

Are CONVERTED CHRISTIANS (MUSLIMS) allowed to marry for believing women? If Yes why...

So you try to say keeping once ethnic group (Jew/Christian) is not allowed in Quran?

Do you really think during the time of Mohamed Christians do convert to Islam? No way...
People can get converted if they don't believe in God only.. that makes sense

Almaz

go pls... study all kufr verses and shirk verses in quran then speak.. thats better.. no comment kufr .,..

To claim that kufr in 6010 does not refer to disbelief in Islam is willful ignorance.

Almaz

Let me ask a common question.. so hope you would get ....

Are CONVERTED CHRISTIANS (MUSLIMS) allowed to marry for believing women? If Yes why...

So you try to say keeping once ethnic group (Jew/Christian) is not allowed in Quran?

Do you really think during the time of Mohamed Christians do convert to Islam? No way...
People can get converted if they don't believe in God only.. that makes sense

Of course if they convert to Islam, they can marry muslims. May allah bless them and their marriages. Because now they are no longer christians and they are believers. My point was about marrying men from ahl ul kitab that disbelieve in Islam

Almaz

kufar means deny in general .. it is just a word to deny no correlation with faith..
Shirk is associating not only with idols but in any form which is equaling to God.. Taking a book other than God's for salvation is for me shirk as well ...
in the end DENYING/KUFR is taking place.. no issue..

@ Almaz...
look again the verse Sarah brought...
it says dont marry Shirk woman ... fine.. accepted but ALLOWED ... when the same Shirk woman becomes a believer.... So use common sense..
A Chrisitian (just a race) already a BELIEVER and why can't marry?
Shirk man a family can give their daughter when he reformed and become believer then why can't a believing woman cannot marry believing man who is jew christian... where is your perfect logic

Brother, Christianity is not a race, it is a religion.

Euphoric

god prohibited us from marrying kufar.

Correction.
6010 wasn't addressing us, it was directed at those who had aamanu whom it calls on in the beginning.

6010 was prohibiting a specific group of people in that time and not the general Muslims.

Consider 4914 where some had falsely claimed aamana.

Almaz

Correction.
6010 wasn't addressing us, it was directed at those who had aamanu whom it calls on in the beginning.

6010 was prohibiting a specific group of people in that time and not the general Muslims.

Consider 4914 where some had falsely claimed aamana.

What makes you say that it was only directed to a specific group of believers? Amanu mean believe, we are believers therefore it applies to us too. In the second part of the verse it says kuffar are not lawful for us, nor are we lawful for them. It applies to all muslims.

Euphoric

What makes you say that it was only directed to a specific group of believers? Amanu mean believe, we are believers therefore it applies to us too. In the second part of the verse it says kuffar are not lawful for us, nor are we lawful for them. It applies to all muslims.

6010 has a context that can be found by reading the full ayah along with its surrounding ayaat. It's wasn't a general address.

Aamanu does not mean to believe, it has a different meaning in the Quraan connected to the Messenger. No one today is from the aamanu.

Quraan has time bound and people specific ayaat that don't apply to others. It wasn't meant to be universal.

jkhan

Brother, Christianity is not a race, it is a religion. bravo

Well.. Sorry for delay in reply..

So according 55 when the verse was revealed Nazaras and Yehudi believing men cannot marry ummi believing women..
What is wrong in Nasara and Yehudi believing men?
If not allowed why would Nasara believing fathers should give their believing daughters to ummi believing men.. So they trust ummi believing men and ummi believing men don't trust nasara Yehudi believing men... Belief is not in ethnnicty...cetywin things alpha doesn't want to repeat just coz QURAN is numerically perfected and certain things not necessary at all to repeat..
Let me put in practical way.. Let's go back to the time of Mohamed..
A believing man's family go to Nasara believing mans family asking His daughter in marruage after this verse.. Let's hope they agreed to give their daughter.. And the nasara believing family cones to ummi believing family asking their daughter for their believing son nasara.. These ummi family rejects saying you are not allowed to marry our women..
What a shame... What is the reason...
I know many people say by this verse only men are allowed.. But they failed to grasp the reality.. When one believes in God and do righteous good deeds every believer is same... Be it Yehudi nasara ummi or whatever..
Or we have to deduce that this is a cunning verse made up only to the benefit of men of ummi... Gof us perfect and his verses are perfect... But people failed to grasp them..
Thank you...

jkhan

6010 has a context that can be found by reading the full ayah along with its surrounding ayaat. It's wasn't a general address.

Aamanu does not mean to believe, it has a different meaning in the Quraan connected to the Messenger. No one today is from the aamanu.

Quraan has time bound and people specific ayaat that don't apply to others. It wasn't meant to be universal.

Yes I do agree with you to certain extent.. But not every verse of Amanu... There are many Amanu verses which are common to all believers... Timeless..