Is astral projection real
-
Peace
Astral projection as I understand it is when your soul is able to leave your body and travel to different places whilst you're awake...
When the Qur'an mentions Iblis and his tribe can see you but you can't see him, are part of his tribe human too?
'O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that he might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.' 727
-
No, we have not got souls/ghosts
http//emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/07/nobody-has-got-ghost-according-to-quran.html
-
No, we have not got souls/ghosts
http//emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/07/nobody-has-got-ghost-according-to-quran.html
In the link mentioned you stated there
In the Quran, people have “nafs”, which is the equivalent of “life energy”, “ego”, “character”. People are born, they die and they will be “physically” recreated in the HereafterAccording to you there is no such thing as a soul but its Nafs which you explained above. This is something interesting and I would like to know more.
Can you explain the following verse in the same context of "life energy",ego,character?3942
ٱللَّهُ يَتَوَفَّى ٱلْأَنفُسَ حِينَ مَوْتِهَا وَٱلَّتِى لَمْ تَمُتْ فِى مَنَامِهَا ۖ فَيُمْسِكُ ٱلَّتِى قَضَىٰ عَلَيْهَا ٱلْمَوْتَ وَيُرْسِلُ
ٱلْأُخْرَىٰٓ إِلَىٰٓ أَجَلٍۢ مُّسَمًّى ۚ إِنَّ فِى ذَٰلِكَ لَـَٔايَـٰتٍۢ لِّقَوْمٍۢ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ˹It is˺ Allah ˹Who˺ calls back the souls ˹of people˺ upon their death as well as ˹the souls˺ of the living during their sleep. Then He keeps those for whom He has ordained death, and releases the others until ˹their˺ appointed time. Surely in this are signs for people who reflect.
When we are in deep sleep, our consciousness is suspended or say becomes dormant. Hence our conscious mind stops functioning and as soon as we wake up, out conscious mind starts functioning again. While in case of death, the conscious mind as well as body is permanently disconnected/dislodged as far as this life on earth is concerned.
I think whether you call it conscious or nafs or soul the concept is the same, it is "something" that is taken away back by God either when we die or when we sleep? what do you think?
cheers
-
In the link mentioned you stated there
In the Quran, people have “nafs”, which is the equivalent of “life energy”, “ego”, “character”. People are born, they die and they will be “physically” recreated in the HereafterAccording to you there is no such thing as a soul but its Nafs which you explained above. This is something interesting and I would like to know more.
Can you explain the following verse in the same context of "life energy",ego,character?3942
ٱللَّهُ يَتَوَفَّى ٱلْأَنفُسَ حِينَ مَوْتِهَا وَٱلَّتِى لَمْ تَمُتْ فِى مَنَامِهَا ۖ فَيُمْسِكُ ٱلَّتِى قَضَىٰ عَلَيْهَا ٱلْمَوْتَ وَيُرْسِلُ
ٱلْأُخْرَىٰٓ إِلَىٰٓ أَجَلٍۢ مُّسَمًّى ۚ إِنَّ فِى ذَٰلِكَ لَـَٔايَـٰتٍۢ لِّقَوْمٍۢ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ˹It is˺ Allah ˹Who˺ calls back the souls ˹of people˺ upon their death as well as ˹the souls˺ of the living during their sleep. Then He keeps those for whom He has ordained death, and releases the others until ˹their˺ appointed time. Surely in this are signs for people who reflect.
When we are in deep sleep, our consciousness is suspended or say becomes dormant. Hence our conscious mind stops functioning and as soon as we wake up, out conscious mind starts functioning again. While in case of death, the conscious mind as well as body is permanently disconnected/dislodged as far as this life on earth is concerned.
I think whether you call it conscious or nafs or soul the concept is the same, it is "something" that is taken away back by God either when we die or when we sleep? what do you think?
cheers
3942 God takes the person when it dies, and during their sleep. He then keeps those that have been overtaken by death, and He sends the others back until a predetermined time. In that are signs for a people who will think.
As we can see, the verse does not actually refer to a soul.
No, the nafs or the life energy is not the soul.
Even in sleep it is at the point of being canceled, and at death it disappears completely.
2135 Every person/nafs will taste death. We burden you with evil and good as a test, and it is to Us that you will return.
The nafs is our self that disappears at death. It is not a ghost that continues its life after we die.
Nafs is our psycho-biological character.
and;
https//www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3772.0
https//www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3779.msg18108#msg18108
Peace
-
There're some assumptions in what you all wrote
- šeyTaan = Iblees
Even if Iblees is šeyTaan and jinn it doesn't work opposite, because he's one of šeyaaTeen and one of jinns.
- Soul = nefs and Soul = enfus
Even they share the root, nefs and enfus has different meanings. Nefs (and the root) describes a reason in a person for (not) doing some action, for example somebody argues because it is in his nefs. This word cannot mean "soul" simply because Allah has His nefs. I would agree on Emre's translation as "character", but I don't agree with Freud's "ego". Ego is better described with "enfus", since it means "self" and also "selves" (word doesn't have number).
- no other word for "soul"
As matter of fact, there're two more words, I think Turks use them, so Emre probably heard about them. We, Muslims on Balkans, use(d) them. One is jaann (used in the Qur'an), in which case it describes something out of our perception, something we can't figure out. It's part of us we can't "see" good. The other word is "rooH", translated mostly as "spirit", which I can agree because we have just a little knowledge of it and can't describe it perfect. As I said, maybe Turks use some word like "ervahi" we use to say, for example "a son is a copy (ervahi) of his father". Its root describes motion by copying moves, and best described is in a wind (riyaaH). We have "of Allah's rooH", which are like embryos of His names that we can develop, as we develop as persons in our life.
The only way to interact with Allah is by His name, by understanding Names we developed in us. If we develop raHmet we can connect with Him by raHmet, if we develop knoledge, wisdom, strength, coherency, love, mercy, etc. we can connect with Him by them.
- 3942 is about taking souls
As said, el-enfus means the Selves, all our selves. Our freedom of choice is in our enfus, but Allah allows what will happen. We're controlling some of our body by enfus, which is our nefs without thinking. During the sleep (menaam) our enfus "dies" and Allah takes full control over us. This is why we can dream about something which is totally different from what we really are. This time is when our retrospective memory is being written, and we can compare this with a computer saving a lot of data if something else the user (enfus) works on a computer he can slow down saving data or corrupt them, this is why we're (our enfus) offline. The same is when a person dies, his enfus is offline, has no control over anything, as we know.
But, I think that Sarah is right about "astral projection", even that phrase is not exact. We live in two (or more) worlds one is this material world Allah created for us, and the other is our mind's world. We were born as "tabula rasa" (we know nothing) and we're constructing this world in us from a scratch, by understanding material world, putting in it our nefs, of rooH we have, our wishes, our fears, and so on. This world has the Earth and the Sky with layers, as material world, and we can have our consciousness on its Earth or above it through the Skies. We can look at everything from these perspectives, even on Allah's names. The final point of our world is "sidret-ul-mentehaa" (literally final point), since we're limited in everything. We can experience "out of the body" whenever we go further then we were before and looking at ourselves from that new perspective. People mostly don't understand this, but it's whenever we figure out that we done something wrong before and we could do it better "now". This travel is the only way to develop our nefs and to develop rooH's embryo.
The best tool for this trip is the Qur'an, this is why it was "send down", because its origin is above "sidret-ul-muntehaa". This is the unique "book", since whenever we understand anything from it by our "earthly perspective", we can take it to the Skies and look on it from a different perspective (1 earthly, 7x7 heavenly).
Sorry for my bad English, especially for this is very hard topic to talk about even in somebody's language. I haven't provide aayaat since I think they're well known to any student of the Qur'an, but if needed I can. I wish you all best in any moment you try to understand the Qur'an better, and wish us all to be best possible students and people who accept learned and enrich our nufoos (pl. or nefs) by it.
-
In Quran spirit=revelation.
1- Spirit is revelation,
2- holy spirit (the angel messenger conveying the message, revelation angel)
3- and revelation book (Quran).
Spirit= revelation.
Let's give examples.
1- Revelation
Quran "So when I perfect him, and blow of My Spirit in him, you shall fall prostrate to him."2- Revelation Angel (Cebrail).
Quran 1917. Thus, she kept herself in seclusion from people. Then We sent to her Our spirit, and it appeared before her in the form of a perfect man.3- Revelation Book/Quran
Quran 4252 And thus We have revealed to you an inspiration of Our command. You did not know what is the Book or faith, but We have made it a light by which We guide whom We will of Our servants. And indeed, , you guide to a straight path -spirit = revelation.
And basic verses in our body like AdamQuran 3030So direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth. the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created people. No change should there be in the creation of Allah . That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know.
We are obliged to direct the truth through the verses inside
We have not got souls/ghosts.
Everything created is material.
Even the Hereafter Universe called the Lord's Floor and the Paradise/Paradises and hell within it are matter.
Satan is the adjective name given to the wicked, deviant ones of jinn and humans.
Iblis is the special name of that famous jinn devil(The Jinn who made Adam and his wife eat the forbidden fruit). That is a personal name.
Surah Nas briefly explains the subject
Holy Quran
1141 Say "I seek refuge with the Lord of the people,"
1142 "The King of the people,"
1143 "The god of the people,"
1144 "From the evil of the sneaking whisperer,"
1145 "Who whispers into the chests of the people."
1146 "From the Jinn and the people."
If humans were created from earth/clay, the jinn were created from fire. They are material and biological beings like us. They just have different physical properties than us (such as being invisible).
-
3942 God takes the person when it dies, and during their sleep. He then keeps those that have been overtaken by death, and He sends the others back until a predetermined time. In that are signs for a people who will think.
As we can see, the verse does not actually refer to a soul.
No, the nafs or the life energy is not the soul.
Even in sleep it is at the point of being canceled, and at death it disappears completely.
2135 Every person/nafs will taste death. We burden you with evil and good as a test, and it is to Us that you will return.
The nafs is our self that disappears at death. It is not a ghost that continues its life after we die.
Nafs is our psycho-biological character.
and;
https//www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3772.0
https//www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=3779.msg18108#msg18108
Peace
Peace
How can you be so sure that the nafs is based in the physical world and not the spiritual?
Also, how does that explain near-death experiences such as this one
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCp1HSqs4tg
I've seen multiple videos like this and they all say the patient was in a coma and with their eyes shut, they were floating above their own body and could see everything that was happening. When they would tell the doctors what they saw, it was confirmed to be true. How can that happen if the soul is biological and just the result of your brain being 'switched on'? We're not robots that function only when you switch them on with electricity. Even though parts of our brain do run on electrical charges through neurons, this still doesn't explain why a robot has no consciousness and we do. Why is it that scientists cannot create a fly? It's because they can't create consciousness.
I'm not saying I'm correct, what I am saying is that I've always understood the soul to be something non-material and spiritual, not just the result of our brains functioning. So you'd have to convince me a non-physical dimension doesn't exist but you can't prove that it does not.
-
1529 And when I have proportioned him and breathed into him of My (Allah's) Ruh then fall down to him in prostration."
In Arabic Nafs can be a man / person / self / soul
This word is used in different ways in Arabic..
Mostly in Quran it may refer to the real person who is inside a physic...But God has created a body first which was not only lifeless but soulless as well..
Mostly a nafs may mean body + life... I don't deny that. Simply a real person.. But life LIFE = ENERGY + SOUL...
But when one study in deep there is no living body without a literal soul which is in fact Ruh.. Yes we may in Arabic call Ruh as nafs in general which is literally soul.
If we are to somehow agree with you, that body has no soul then logical question one would pose is, there is no need of Malaika at the time of death to take him or her.. Presence of malaika or authorized malaika to make one die has a huge meaning. .. If death is automatic action, then requirement of malaika is needless.
As per you When energy sources die, ultimately human dies.. For example if we experience void of oxygen or rather air we die... Then for what reason malaika need to come and say Salam etc and to take what... Coz as per you human body is soulless and should die and that's it.. Like a battery and it works and energy source finish and battery dead. Human body is different not like battery and its energy.
Verses you brought in sura 36 yasin.. Note well ... The person's dead body is on this earth and immediately he speaks ... Everyone should taste death ... that's God's law.. And if a person speaks as soon as he dies it can only be his ruh/ real soul /nafs...
When evil people die they say send (arsal) us back .. Well. . You can send only if you are dead. So while the body is on the earth they request to go back so that they do righteous good.. What makes these evil people speak without body?..God says there is a barzakh till the day of resurrection for those who are dead they won't be able to return back.. Why need a barzakh if body has no soul.. If dead and chapter closed no need all these.. God recreates. He brings back the dead to alive.. Note well dead to alive... . Until then they were behind barzakh...
Yes there are people who live in Janna like those who were directly taken at the time of death to janna.. Like messengers martyr and who knows very very good people.. But we don't know (Ghaib) how they are alive in what shape/condition.. What exactly the Ruh is without absolute physical body where they were originally placed.. .. That will only happen on the day of judgement . . Coz every person will deserve according to what they did.. After God's decision/judgement only each will get their deseved destination forever.
One should never complicate the status soon after death of a good person or bad person..
When angel says at the time of Janna enter Janna doesn't mean it is the final... They have come to take our lives and they find these people were believers and they say Salam and enter Janna.. Coz the souls they take should reach to its deserved location up until the judgement day...@Fusion..
3942 "
Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die during their sleep. Then He KEEPS /WITHHOLDS (Yumshiku) those for which He has decreed death and SENDS (ARSAL) the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought."Allah takes souls two particular times towards Him.. So clear.. God could have simply said this verse without correlation of Sleep...it clearly indicates human has Body + Energy + Soul...
In deep sleep Body + Energy only exists .. God takes the soul away...
But in death of a body also God takes the soul only.. No difference... But the difference is Body has lost its Energy due to whatever reasons in death..
In death God WITHHOLD and withhold what? Soul.. If No soul what God in fact withhold? but in sleep God TAKES and not WITHHOLD instead Sends (ARSAL) back the soul to body... Same way Dead people requests to send them back as I said earlier..
This is sign for people... Note the last part of the verse..
If there is no soul to body what sign on this...
Is death and deep sleep same? No way.. Not at all.. They both never ever resembles in any angle..
The sign is soul..
Soul departs and re-enters.. That's deep sleep..
Soul departs and never enters that's death..
If no soul and if God takes then sleep should be like dead person.. No breathing no movement nothing at all but when God returns they should be back as normal.. It doesn't happen.. So what is the reason for Allah to put this verse in this manner.. Reason is we have a Ruh which literally in normal language soul..Body + Energy + Soul is reality..
Mostly people of cave were Body + Energy only... Souls departed for ages.. And God returned them back to bodies..
Even in cave people story there is a great sign.. When the souls is inside the body only you will feel hunger and thirsty ... While sleeping no need.. Even killing an innocent boy in the same chapter is a very good indication that soul is the reason for the killing of that boy... Not the age of the body or energy.. But soul.. Soul was evil.. -
Greetings,
I am really thankful to all of you, for making your statements and research in this discussion of Soul. As I said before am only learning through this website.
I would like to add one more thing, to get explanation of the following verse , because God promises on this verse that Malika (or shall I say Heavenly forces?) descend on such a person who sas achieved such a height of faith. So natural question would be is this phenomenon physical or spiritual?
4130 am only posting arabic, because there are many versions of translations.إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوا۟ رَبُّنَا ٱللَّهُ ثُمَّ ٱسْتَقَـٰمُوا۟ تَتَنَزَّلُ عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةُ أَلَّا تَخَافُوا۟ وَلَا تَحْزَنُوا۟ وَأَبْشِرُوا۟
بِٱلْجَنَّةِ ٱلَّتِى كُنتُمْ تُوعَدُونَ -
Greetings,
I am really thankful to all of you, for making your statements and research in this discussion of Soul. As I said before am only learning through this website.
I would like to add one more thing, to get explanation of the following verse , because God promises on this verse that Malika (or shall I say Heavenly forces?) descend on such a person who sas achieved such a height of faith. So natural question would be is this phenomenon physical or spiritual?
4130 am only posting arabic, because there are many versions of translations.إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوا۟ رَبُّنَا ٱللَّهُ ثُمَّ ٱسْتَقَـٰمُوا۟ تَتَنَزَّلُ عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةُ أَلَّا تَخَافُوا۟ وَلَا تَحْزَنُوا۟ وَأَبْشِرُوا۟
بِٱلْجَنَّةِ ٱلَّتِى كُنتُمْ تُوعَدُونَPhysical of course but it happens on the day of judgement. Read carefully all surrounding verses.
Thank you.. -
Greetings,
I am really thankful to all of you, for making your statements and research in this discussion of Soul. As I said before am only learning through this website.
I would like to add one more thing, to get explanation of the following verse , because God promises on this verse that Malika (or shall I say Heavenly forces?) descend on such a person who sas achieved such a height of faith. So natural question would be is this phenomenon physical or spiritual?
4130 am only posting arabic, because there are many versions of translations.إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ قَالُوا۟ رَبُّنَا ٱللَّهُ ثُمَّ ٱسْتَقَـٰمُوا۟ تَتَنَزَّلُ عَلَيْهِمُ ٱلْمَلَـٰٓئِكَةُ أَلَّا تَخَافُوا۟ وَلَا تَحْزَنُوا۟ وَأَبْشِرُوا۟
بِٱلْجَنَّةِ ٱلَّتِى كُنتُمْ تُوعَدُونَOf course it's physical. And he's talking about now, not in the apocalypse.
I repeat, angels, jinns, human beings...they are all physical and material. Even Paradise and hell are material.
The belief in an immaterial spirit world comes from satanic and perverted spiritism.
The verse you cited also talks about material angels supporting the good while they are still in the world. If you read the whole paragraph you can easily see the truth.
There are no spirits/souls, there are no ghosts.
By the way, we also see in the verses that the jinn have an advanced civilization, both underwater and space travel. They were created long before us and it is normal for them to be advanced in science and technology.
Peace
-
Peace,
We live inside of our bodies, and you can call us what you like i.e., soul, spirit, etc., that is why we say "my" foot, my knee, my arm because our bodies belong and are separate from you name it soul, spirit, etc. When we dream our bodies does not accompany us.
Peace
When the Qur'an mentions Iblis and his tribe can see you but you can't see him, are part of his tribe human too?
'O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that he might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not.' 727
The jinn are physical beings. you can't see them because they dwell inside of people, same for humans while Satan resides inside of both, that is why you have good jinn as well as good humans. Satan is not some outside force that influences people but dwells inside of each of us who must be controlled.
God bless you
peace -
Of course it's physical. And he's talking about now, not in the apocalypse.
I repeat, angels, jinns, human beings...they are all physical and material. Even Paradise and hell are material.
The belief in an immaterial spirit world comes from satanic and perverted spiritism.
The verse you cited also talks about material angels supporting the good while they are still in the world. If you read the whole paragraph you can easily see the truth.
There are no spirits/souls, there are no ghosts.
By the way, we also see in the verses that the jinn have an advanced civilization, both underwater and space travel. They were created long before us and it is normal for them to be advanced in science and technology.
Peace
So basically all creations of God has got physical body in which case has there been any encounter recorded of humans communicating with other physical beings (angels/jinns)?
-
So basically all creations of God has got physical body in which case has there been any encounter recorded of humans communicating with other physical beings (angels/jinns)?
I have even encountered it myself.
There are many claims of recordings, but many of them are fake.
There is also the fact that the jinns, the evil/satan ones, often disguise themselves as other beings. Sometimes they claim to be the spirit of so-and-so, sometimes they claim to be an alien or even a divine being. Their aim is usually to mislead people.
-
I have even encountered it myself.
There are many claims of recordings, but many of them are fake.
There is also the fact that the jinns, the evil/satan ones, often disguise themselves as other beings. Sometimes they claim to be the spirit of so-and-so, sometimes they claim to be an alien or even a divine being. Their aim is usually to mislead people.
Since you mentioned it, pray share your encounter experience?
-
Since you mentioned it, pray share your encounter experience?
It's a long story. All I want to say now is that he had the appearance of a human and could read my mind telepathically.
-
Peace,
We live inside of our bodies, and you can call us what you like i.e., soul, spirit, etc., that is why we say "my" foot, my knee, my arm because our bodies belong and are separate from you name it soul, spirit, etc. When we dream our bodies does not accompany us.
The jinn are physical beings. you can't see them because they dwell inside of people, same for humans while Satan resides inside of both, that is why you have good jinn as well as good humans. Satan is not some outside force that influences people but dwells inside of each of us who must be controlled.
God bless you
peacePeace
How can a physical being be inside of a human? Jinn did dwell in the sky, remember.
-
Of course it's physical. And he's talking about now, not in the apocalypse.
I repeat, angels, jinns, human beings...they are all physical and material. Even Paradise and hell are material.
The belief in an immaterial spirit world comes from satanic and perverted spiritism.
The verse you cited also talks about material angels supporting the good while they are still in the world. If you read the whole paragraph you can easily see the truth.
There are no spirits/souls, there are no ghosts.
By the way, we also see in the verses that the jinn have an advanced civilization, both underwater and space travel. They were created long before us and it is normal for them to be advanced in science and technology.
Peace
If they're physical yet invisible, why hasn't anybody ever bumped into these physical beings and wondered what they bumped into?
-
It's a long story. All I want to say now is that he had the appearance of a human and could read my mind telepathically.
'And when We decreed for him death, nothing indicated to them his death except a creature of the earth eating his staff.1 But when he fell, it became clear to the jinn that if they had known the unseen, they would not have remained in humiliating punishment.' 3414
If they could read minds, they would have realised prophet Sulaiman was no longer alive.
-
The discussions are getting very interesting. Seems every one has a different opinion about the concepts mentioned in Quran.
For example translation of the verse 3414 I found from GA Pervez who was also regarded as following Quran only.- After Solomon’s death, his son ascended the throne. The son, unlike his father or grand father, was an ordinary below average human being (3834). As such the grandeur, might and authority of Daud and Sulaiman's period just vanished away (and ten of the Bani-Israel's tribes revolted against him). Similarly the uncivilzed tribes who were working hard in complete submission, realized this fact and became rebellious, feeling sorry that they had remained subjugated to a weak person. Had they known this earlier (that power and might is just in name and that he had lost all his strength), they would never have continued suffering such humiliating servitude.
It appears to definition of Jinn is not authentic among Quranists, for example in above excerpt from GA Pervex Jinn are Humans of different uncivilized being.
I just rememver the verse when it was mentioned in one of the replies posted lately and thouht to share this not intending to divert from the subject.
Hence I feel the definition of Jinn is not agreed upon....
Refhttps//www.parwez.tv/abid/mufhoom_1/by_G_A_parwez/Exposition%20of%20Quran.htm
