Destiny and Free will
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In the Qur'an we see our Creator asking His servants questions. Because of this, some people raise objections such as, "Doesn't Allah already know everything, why does He ask?"
Of course God Almighty knows everything. Even what will happen in the future.
The reason He asks questions is not to learn, but to give His servants what they deserve and to make them live.
A question is not necessarily asked to learn.
1- It is also asked in order to give that person an experience they deserve.
2- Questions are also asked to strengthen expression, to make one think, to give a message, etc.
Aside from that, Allah is already making us experience what we deserve and confronting us with ourselves in this 2-day summary test life. The afterlife itself is based on such "questions whose outcome is known to Allah". Because our Almighty Lord already knows very well what we would do if we were to live in this world forever, and He makes us live a 2-day sample test life that summarizes this. In my work titled "Destiny and Free Will", I analyzed this in the light of verses.
Al-Baqarah 260
Remember when Abraham cried out "My Lord, show me, how do you raise the dead?" "Did you not believe?" he asked. "I believed," he said, "but only to satisfy my heart..." Allah said "Take four of the birds and make them warm and accustomed to you. Then place a piece of them on every mountain. Then call them. They will come to you running. Know that Allah is the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
These are all experiences that serve the plan of making people face the truth and themselves. And questions are part of it. This way you have no right to object in the Hereafter.
Surah A'raf 12 Allah said "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" Iblis said "I am better than him, you created me from the fire, and you created him from mud."
Here again, our Lord gives His creation the experience it deserves.
He knew that Iblis was one of the evil ones and this had to be revealed. So far Iblis had been doing whatever he was told to do, but Allah knew that he would not do so if He confronted him with the option of prostrating himself to Adam, so Allah brought this test to him.
In other words, he was confronted with the evil in his heart and the necessary evidence against him was revealed.
Iblis realizes that he has been trapped and says the following
- He said "I swear by You that You have tempted me, that I will be set upon Your straight path to lead them astray."
When Iblis says, "for you have tempted me," he is referring to this entrapment. Because Allah knew well what Iblis would not do with free will and where he would show his true face, Allah made sure that this Iblis would be put to the test where he would display his evil and show his cruelty.
In short, our Lord is not asking a question here to learn something, but rather to teach and make him experience something. In other words, He gives them what they deserve...
Saba-40. On the Day when He gathers them all together, He will say to the angels, "Were these the ones who worshipped you?
Saba-41. They said, 'You are the Exalted, our guardian (friend) is You, not them. No, they were worshipping the jinn. Many believed in them.'
Here again, Allah does not ask what He does not know, He knows best.
Again, He gives His servants the experience they deserve.
He also explains in these verses how jinns and devils mislead people disguised as angels, spirits, etc. and warns people against these tricks.
Surat al-Ma'idah 116 Allah also said "O Jesus son of Mary! Did you tell the people that they should take me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?" Jesus said "Glory be to You. It is not for me to say what I have no right to say. If I have said it, surely You know it. You know what is in me, but I do not know what is in you. For You, yes You, are the One who knows the unseen!"
In the same way, our Lord is not asking the Prophet Jesus here out of curiosity, He knows the answer, and He knows exactly what Jesus will answer.
Also examples of questions that our Creator asks to strengthen the expression and to make His servants think
ANBIYA
(30) Have not those who disbelieve seen that when the heavens and the earth were joined together, We separated them and created from water all that is alive? Will they still not believe?SURAH FATIR
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Have you not seen that Allah sends down water from the sky? With it We bring forth crops of various colors. Even the mountains have layers of white, red or colored layers. Some roads are black.
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Likewise, people, animals and livestock are of various colors. It is for this reason that it is the scientists among His servants who honor ALLAH properly. ALLAH is Exalted, Forgiving
SURAH TUR
35. Or were they created without anything, or are they themselves the creators?-
or did they create the heavens and the earth? No, they do not have access to the necessary knowledge!
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or are the treasures of your Lord with them, or are they the owners of power and sovereignty?
As I have said, the fact that our Almighty Lord tests us in this world is actually a "confrontation of the servants with themselves", the outcome of which is known to Him. In this way, not only do the servants have no right to object in the Hereafter, but they also taste some small punishments and rewards in this world.
For a better understanding of the subject, you can also take a look at my study titled "fate and free will".
(My Turkish article translated with machine)
https//emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/07/rabbimizin-sorular-sormasndaki-amac.html?m=0
Peace
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You're making things up, for example that Allah asks something even He knows the answer, which is just your opinion, it's not what He said. For example 3440 you quoted in some translation, in which, btw, there's no future tense in original but somehow it exists in that translation.
Do you really think, according to that translation of 2260, that Ibrahim was a mountain-climber? That it was a need for him to understand how Allah rises dead?! Can you understand how Allah rises dead from that example, maybe you can explain that? If I get 4 birds, make them warm and accustomed to me, as you say, and place a piece of them on every mountain and then call them, will they come? Will I understand how Allah rises dead and will my heart satisfy after that?
You make some crazy claims first, which is ok, best things always shock on the first, but then you fail to explain anything and go to "ad hominem". I know many bad things about me which you cannot know, even if you make your worst guess about me, but that won't change anything Allah said to us, you and me and all others wanted to hear Him.
You're writing about destiny as fatalism and qaderism and that Allah knows something which doesn't exist, It's ok if it's your belief out of anything you want. If you think that your views are supported by the Qur'an then it's not just yours, the Qur'an is for all of us to think about and discuss it as we personally understand it, you cannot attack others ad hominem for that. I don't mind you believe whatever you like, I don't go to discuss sunnies about hadeeth cuz I don't mind them believe in hadeeth because they're man-made and for those who accept them. But the Qur'an is for all humans to ponder over, to discuss and to take lessons and guidance. If it hurts you to discuss the Qur'an then don't mention some silly translations about Ibrahim as mountaineer. Btw, is it literally EVERY MOUNTAIN for him to climb, because I see it impossible for a man to climb them all in a life-time, just to put a piece of some bird to be called after.
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No, you have nothing to do with verses Azra. You are nothing but a bigot who blindly tries to defend your doctrine.
Secondly, you still don't even read what is said. The future is not something that is not for Allah. For us, something that has not happened yet will come. For God there are no different time periods, present, future, past. He does not travel forward in time like we do. He is not in time or space. He does not learn something later, He does not gain experience by experiencing something. He already knows.
You have not yet believed in Allah. Because the being you believe in is a limited being. Not the God of the Qur'an, , not the Allah that is shown to us by our inner verses and our intellect, but the God you believe in.
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Dear Emre,
You have started the thread and if you do not want people to question its fine, perhaps as you mentioned those who read your article and understood it well... am happy for those....
I have not yet fully understood the grasp of fate, predestined, good and evil vs free will and I pray to almighty to make me understand one day.
For now, when I look at my life , family and his blessings, I thank the creator for giving me this life and keeping my family safe and healthy.
Please keep it up and I really value reading your threads honestly.
I will end with the verse which makes me feel happy.
763 إِنَّا هَدَيْنَـٰهُ ٱلسَّبِيلَ إِمَّا شَاكِرًۭا وَإِمَّا كَفُورًا
Cheers
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Dear Emre,
You have started the thread and if you do not want people to question its fine, perhaps as you mentioned those who read your article and understood it well... am happy for those....
I have not yet fully understood the grasp of fate, predestined, good and evil vs free will and I pray to almighty to make me understand one day.
For now, when I look at my life , family and his blessings, I thank the creator for giving me this life and keeping my family safe and healthy.
Please keep it up and I really value reading your threads honestly.
I will end with the verse which makes me feel happy.
763 إِنَّا هَدَيْنَـٰهُ ٱلسَّبِيلَ إِمَّا شَاكِرًۭا وَإِمَّا كَفُورًا
Cheers
Dear friend;
I want people to question, of course. What I criticize here are those who do not question.
Thank you for your interest. Please keep reading here. I am happy if I can help you in the smallest way.
Greetings and love
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Holy Quran
3134 With God is the knowledge regarding the moment. He sends down the rain, and He knows what is inside the wombs. No person knows what it may gain tomorrow, nor does any person know in which land it will die. God is Knowledgeable, Ever-aware.
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From my article
He also knows from the very beginning who will have the best morals and who will be worthy of being chosen as prophets. This goes without saying.
In the story of Moses, this "2-day summary test, confrontation with what is in the heart" is also evident
Surah 28 - Qasas
In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful and the Most Gracious.
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Ta, Sîn, Mîm.
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These are the verses of the Book, which declare clearly to you.
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We will recite to you a portion of the story of Moses and Pharaoh in truth for a people who will believe.
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The truth is that Pharaoh had established himself in that place and divided its people into groups. He despised and oppressed a group of them He slaughtered their male children and treated their women shamelessly/exploited their wombs/released their women into the world. He was indeed one of those who spread mischief.
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And We desire that We may bestow mercy on those who are oppressed in the earth, and make them leaders, and make them heirs.
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And give them means and power in the earth. And We will show Pharaoh and Haman and their armies what they feared.
(Since Allah knows how His servants will react to which option, He is implementing His plan to give their free will what they deserve)
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And We revealed to the mother of Moses breastfeed him! And when you feel fear against him, let him fall into the river. Do not fear, do not grieve! We will bring him back to you and make him one of the Messengers."
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Finally, Pharaoh's family found him as a lost thing and took him. He was to be an enemy and a worry for them. The truth is that Pharaoh and Haman and their armies were on the wrong path.
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Pharaoh's wife said "He is a light in my eyes and in yours. Do not kill him, for he may be useful to us, or we may adopt him as a child." They did not realize it.
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And the heart of the mother of Moses was empty in the morning. She was in a state that she would have revealed it if We had not given her a binding in her heart so that she might be among the believers.
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His mother said to Moses' sister, "Watch him." So she watched him from the sidelines. They were not aware of it.
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And We had forbidden him women who suckled before, so his sister said "Shall I introduce to you a household who will take care of him for you, and take it upon themselves to educate and teach him?"
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Finally We returned Moses to his mother so that she may be enlightened and not grieve and know that Allah's promise is true. But many do not know this.
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And when Moses reached the age of valor, We gave him wisdom and knowledge. Thus do We reward those who think well and act well.
(Then Pharaoh and his followers face the evil in their hearts and leave the land of testing in the middle of the closing sea)
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We made them leaders calling to the Fire, and they will not be helped on the Day of Resurrection.
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We put a curse on their backs in this worldly life. On the Day of Resurrection they will be among the disfigured.
In the story of Joseph, again we see that our Lord knows the future and that in this 2-day representative and summary test, He ensures that people get what they deserve with their free will
YUSUF
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Joseph once said to his father, "My father, I saw the eleven planets, the sun and the moon, and I saw them prostrating themselves to me."
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(His father Jacob said "My child," he said, "do not tell your dream to your brothers, lest they plot against you. For Satan is a clear enemy to man.
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"So your Lord chooses you, and teaches you the interpretation of dreams, and completes His favor upon you and the family of Jacob, as He completed His favor upon your fathers Abraham and Isaac before you. Your Lord is All-Knowing, All-Wise."
Since our Lord knows how people will react to whatever choice is put before them, He is giving Joseph and those around him the adventure that will enable them to confront themselves in this way.
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The one who bought him in Egypt said to his wife, "Take good care of him, lest he be of use to us, or we adopt him as a son." So We established Joseph on the earth and taught him the interpretation of dreams. God is the One who accomplishes His work, but most of the people do not know it.
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And when he grew up, We gave him wisdom and knowledge, and thus do We reward those who do good.
Again, with the free will of people, fate weaves its web and events follow one another in line with the plan of our Lord.
Even the fact that Joseph was shown the future through dreams, in itself, shows that it was already known what was going to happen. Our Lord knows who will do what in the face of which option, and He presents such options, representing what that person would do if he lived forever - if he were tested - that in this 2-day world, people are confronted with the good or evil in them with the option they choose.
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He said "What you have sown for seven years, leave it in its ears and store it up, except a little of it which you eat."
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Then seven dry years will come after it, and it will devour what you have stored up for those years, except a little of what you have stored up
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"And after that comes a year in which the people will be refreshed and in which they will press (fruit) and milk (animals)."
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The king said "Bring him, and I will appoint him to work for me." And when he had spoken to him, he said, "You are a trustworthy man who has a high position with us today."
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He said "Put me in charge of the country's finances. Surely I can guard well and know well."
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So We established Joseph in that land, and he could move about as he pleased. We shower Our mercy on whom We will. We do not leave those who do good without reward.
Our Lord continues to carry out His plan.
After Joseph was reunited with his family, he witnessed the fulfillment of the dream he had told his father about
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He raised his parents on the throne. They all prostrated for him. He said "My father, this is the fulfillment of the dream I had before. My Lord has fulfilled it, and He has done me good by bringing me out of prison and bringing you from the desert after Satan had driven a wedge between me and my brothers. Indeed, my Lord is very compassionate to whom He wills. He is All-Knowing, All-Wise."
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"My Lord, You have given me sovereignty and taught me the interpretation of dreams. You are the Creator of heaven and earth. You are my Wali (owner) in this world and the Hereafter. Take my life as a Muslim and include me among the righteous."
There are also examples of even more accelerated trials that Allah uses to confront His servants with what is within themselves and to show them what they deserve.
In fact, these two days of brief trials are being prepared and finalized in a way that corresponds to what we would do if we were tested forever.
Our Lord sometimes tries the wrongdoers with requests outside of His ongoing law in order to confront them with the evil in them one last time. More precisely, He confronts them with this reality because He knows what they will do.
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Oh, if you could only see them standing by the Fire and saying "What if we were sent back, and did not deny the verses of our Lord and were of the believers?"
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The truth of the matter is that what they used to conceal has been brought against them, and if they were sent back, they would certainly repeat what they were forbidden. Indeed, they are liars.(Anam)
In other words, even if the wrongdoers are tested millions of times, they will still lose the test. Anyway, this 2-day scenario makes us face the goodness or treachery-evilness in our hearts. Otherwise Allah already knows what we deserve.
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Oh, if you could only see them standing by the Fire and saying "What if we were sent back, and did not deny the verses of our Lord and were of the believers?"
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The truth of the matter is that what they used to conceal has been brought against them, and if they were sent back, they would certainly repeat what they were forbidden. Indeed, they are liars.(Anam)
In other words, even if the wrongdoers are tested millions of times, they will still lose the test. Anyway, this 2-day scenario makes us face the goodness or treachery-evilness in our hearts. Otherwise Allah already knows what we deserve.
By the way, let me mention again that these events will take place in the future, so God is telling us about the future.
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https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611922.0
Peace
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Let's see how Christians and atheists and agnostics react
http//www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=360224
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Asked Most Christians I've asked seem to think sin doesn't exist in heaven, so is everyone up there a robot?
My answer No, example; Allah/God is never do evil, He is always good and just (justice is also goodness). This does not make Allah a robot. It shows that he is a very good being. People in Paradise will always choose goodness with their free will.
Peace
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Asked Most Christians I've asked seem to think sin doesn't exist in heaven, so is everyone up there a robot?
My answer No, example; Allah/God is never do evil, He is always good and just (justice is also goodness). This does not make Allah a robot. It shows that he is a very good being. People in Paradise will always choose goodness with their free will.
Peace
Plus, Allah (SWTAY) is the knower of ALL THINGS. Meaning multiple futures, potential and real, He alone knows what would & will happens.
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Sardar, what "all things" means? I know that it's a translation of kull šey', but have you thought about what does this mean?
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Sardar, what "all things" means? I know that it's a translation of kull šey', but have you thought about what does this mean?
Shiin-Ya-Alif = to will/wish. shaiun (pl. ashyaa'un) - thing/matter, affair in any way, at all, what is willed or wished, aught, any extent. In direct objective case it is often used to denote the meaning "a little", "bit", "at all". Adverbially it means "in any way", "at all".
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Then why it's not "all affairs" or "all that is wished/willed" or "all parts (as pieces)" or anything that people think that this word can mean? If you see, they agree on verb's meaning as "to wish/will" and it's expected that verbal noun expresses meaning of the verb, they cannot differ.
So, if šey' شَىْء is (any)thing then what verb šaa'e شَآءَ could be, or vice versa? Also, why people use "in šaa'e Allah" when it's perfect and would mean "What Allah willED"; we have imperfect "in yešaa' Allah" أَنْ يَشَاءَ اللَّهُ for example in 1824, so does this mean that Allah changes His will? Maybe we took lightly these words, that's why I asked you about your views, but we can leave it for some other time...
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Plus, Allah (SWTAY) is the knower of ALL THINGS. Meaning multiple futures, potential and real, He alone knows what would & will happens.
Absolutely. For Allah there is no distinction between the future, the present or the past. He is timeless and spaceless.
These times apply to us. We travel in space and time. But God does not travel. He doesn't decide something afterwards.
For God, the future is always already realized. In other words, there is no future time for Him.
And this is just one of the countless reasons why God knows the future.
Peace
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Then why it's not "all affairs" or "all that is wished/willed" or "all parts (as pieces)" or anything that people think that this word can mean? If you see, they agree on verb's meaning as "to wish/will" and it's expected that verbal noun expresses meaning of the verb, they cannot differ.
So, if šey' شَىْء is (any)thing then what verb šaa'e شَآءَ could be, or vice versa? Also, why people use "in šaa'e Allah" when it's perfect and would mean "What Allah willED"; we have imperfect "in yešaa' Allah" أَنْ يَشَاءَ اللَّهُ for example in 1824, so does this mean that Allah changes His will? Maybe we took lightly these words, that's why I asked you about your views, but we can leave it for some other time...
You know what, yeah, It should be translated as Knower of all AFFAIRS because it's not just material but immaterial as well. Good thing you asked me on this, i did thought of it after that question.
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So, you could agree that šey' is ONLY that on which some affair can happen when we speak in present, or some affair could happen if we talk in past, and some affair would be possible to happen if we talk about future? This means that šey' is only part of existence and it also depends of time spoken about, as I tried to point in perfect and imperfect about "in šaa'e Allah".
This is why I don't think we understood this topic good. Because when we say that "Allah know everything" we include future also, but that can't be because no affairs on that "thing" exist NOW. So, Allah's getting knowledge (instantly) whenever something occurs/becomes, but not before that. This is why He's testing us to KNOW how we'll be. If He already knows then there would be no reason to test us.
Also, things from our imagination (baaTil, out of Haqq) cannot be of "all things", because no affair can happen on them. But, here we have "a catch", because these "things" exist in our mind, our imagination and we can make affairs on them (as creators of our own worlds, under our own deen - law), as a game programmer is making characters and things in his game and also law for their existence. There's also "world of dreams" and other worlds, but none of them can exist in Allah's reality, The Heavens and The Earth, He made for us. In short, I could agree that He knows about all these things from these worlds, but these things cannot exist in Reality, and they're also conditioned by their world's law.
