I need help with 2:158
-
Selam,
Just read an article called "The Mystery of the "Mispa". In this article the author states the following
"...Its two hills, or mounts, were named "Moriah" and "Sion." Both these words have the same signification and import as the famous mounts of "Marwa" and "Sapha" in Mecca, which words respectively mean "the place of the vision of the Lord," and "the rock" or "stone."
Could anyone who speaks Arabic tell me whether this translation is right?
and what do you think about this article. could there be any connection between the Sapha and Marwa mentioned in 2258 and the mountains Sion and Moriah mentioned in the Bible?The articles
http//www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Muhammad/Book/In_Bible/Old_07.htmhttp//www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Muhammad/Book/In_Bible/Old_07.htm
-
Salaams,Aymaan, layth,
?Br.Layth said?
Now that leaves "Marwa" to be discovered.Ayman said
On the other hand, "MRWaT" is supposed to be from the root "MRW", which has no other related words in the reading. However, a close root "MRY" does have many occurrences in the reading and it has the connotation of "doubt". There are other roots such as "GhShY" that have nouns in the form of "GhShAWaT", "GhShA'A" and "GhaShYaT". So it is conceivable that "MRY" can also have nouns in the form of "MRWaT", "MRA'A", and "MRYaT".
Actualy there is a root ?I think,for the word and it is
MIM,RAE,ALIF,HAMZA Page 2702 of lanes,and the meaning you want is for MARWAT
Marwata=manliness-consisting in abstinance from things unlawfull,or chestity of manners,or abstaining from doing things secretly what you would be ashamed to do openly,and guarding the tongue and shunning impudance.
But I think even Saffaa needs looking into you can do that though
Bye.
-
Peace Mucahit, all,
Could anyone who speaks Arabic tell me whether this translation is right?
A plural Arabic word closely related to "safa", which is "sawaf", can be found in 2236
- And the animals used for offering We have made for you from "sha3air Allah", in them is good for you. So mention The God?s name upon them "sawaf"/lined up for slaughter, so once their meats are done, then eat from them and give food to the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.
Please note that 2236 is talking in the context of "hajj", the same exact context of 2158. Moreover, 2236 describes the animals as "sha3air Allah" exactly like "safa" and "marwah" are described as "sha3air Allah" in 2158.
The classical Arabic dictionary meaning of "safa" means "the camel and the sheep that give a lot of milk" and "the palm tree that carries a lot of dates". Also, a related word "safif" means "meat".
As for "marwah" it has a meaning of the white fragile stone where a cooking fire is started. It also means "the stone on which an animal is slaughtered".
So by consistently understanding 2236 and 2158 using classical Arabic dictionaries and applying the appropriate context of "sha3air Allah" and "hajj", here is a translation of 2158
- The camel and the sheep that give a lot of milk and the stone on which they are cooked/slaughtered are from what The God makes us aware with so whomever visits the house or maintains there is no blame on him if he passes by/partakes in them and whoever does good voluntarily, then The God is Appreciative, Knowledgeable.
So we see that 2158 and 2236 are talking about the same concepts of animal slaughter during the gathering of "hajj" to eat from it and feed the needy and poor.
All that the article proves is that the later falsehood of the two stones in so-called Makka has its roots in Biblical corruptions.
I hope this helps.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Salaam Ayman,
Thank you for your reply. The translation you gave to this verse is very satisfying.
An other word in this verse that troubled me was the translation "to circumambulate" (tawwaf)
According to the Quranic search engine of Islamicity this word occurs 3 times in the Quran and in all 3 occassions it has the meaning of "to move about" "to circumambulate" "to compass round"
But I'm not an Arab nor do I speak Arabic so it is difficult for me to check whether these translations are correct or not, however I'm learning Arabic so, in time Inshallah, I will be able to do so.
If the translation you gave to "Tawwaf" is correct (to partake) this whole verse will make a lot of sense.
By the way, the link I gave in my previous message was incorrect it should be"the mystery of the Mispa" http//www.islamic-paths.org/Home/English/Muhammad/Book/In_Bible/Old_03.htm
-
Salaams Aymaan,all,
Heres my trans using lanes mainly.
All From lanes
Safaa = Reciprocal or brotherly affection.
Marwata = Abstinance from things unlawful.
Behemaa = with them ,taken from 242
2158, becomes.The brotherly affection and the abstinence from things unlawful (are) of/from the knowledge/signs (of) Allah so whoever debates/fulfils/overcomes (for) the house or who betakes himself (to an affair) so that/there is no crime on him when he walks about (during) with concern/desire/regard/intention and whosoever does voluntarily good then verily Allah (is) All-Recogniser All-Knower.
Salaam.
-
Hi Ayman,
Thanks for explaning the safa and marwa. I was thinking about these, now its clear! Thanks.
What about, when Allah told Abrahim to take off his his shoes and about the burning bush? And did Allah told Abrahim to sacrifice his son or was it Satan? It will be help ful if these could be clerified.
Thanks
-
Salaams Br.
i wonder where ayman is !
but here is something might be of interest
It wasn't Abraham who took off his shoes it was Moses,you are mixing up i think.
And it might not have been a dream , in those days there where traditions as well where the eldest son was offerred for sacrifice!
But check this
The following is According to a website of a Cristian background.
A Definite Change In Meaning
While our purpose was solely to indicate letter differences and refute the idea that the Samarqand is ?an original whose content proves the modern version?, we note one example of a meaning which is altered (in Q37103) because of the letter differences which are present in the Samarqand MSS.
First we note the text from Page #652 of the Samarqand MSS (found in Appendix A) which plainly begins with the letters waw mim-alif. A transliteration of the text shown (see to right) would be wa ma ?aslamA.
The translation of this is "And they did not submit (become muslims)".
Beneath that we find the text of the 1924 Egyptian Edition which begins with the
letters fa-lam-mim-alif. A transliteration of the text would be falammA?slamA. The translation of this is "When they too submitted (became muslims)". This is the exact opposite of the Samarqand MSS!Page #652
-In line #2 the ?original? of Q37103 has waw then mim-alif, while the modern version has fa-lam-mim-alif (see p. 67 of main text)
-In line #4 the ?original? of Q37105 is without sad which the modern version has, and it has alif while the modern version has ta.
-In line #6 the ?original? of the same aya is without nun while the modern version has nun.
-In line #7 while the ?original? of Q37106 is without waw the modern version has waw.
-In line #8 the ?original? (same aya) is without ba which the modern version has.I allways wondered how a prophet could accept a sacrifice of a human a thing to be from allah,didn't you?
Using lanes.
"Falamma Aslama" is actually "Wa Ma Aslama". so the meaning is
"and not at peace/reconciled"
according to lanes.
LilJabeena=afraid/cowardly.
Dakkaa=broken/crushed/bruised.
Fa-Dainaaho page 943
37103
someone pointed out that the ayat is somewhat different to that found in the modern qurans."Falamma Aslama" is actually "Wa Ma Aslama". so the meaning is
"Then when they submitted" ,but should be ,"and not they submitted"
I noticed two more words have been mistranslated according to lanes.
Wa talaho = and temples sweating profusely ,
LilJabeena=afraid/cowardly.New Trans
And they did not submit and where sweating profusely and where afraid/cowardly and we did not oppose that,"O Abraham you have passed/cut/broken/crushed through the dream/tradition thus verily we reward the good doer's. Verily that is a call/trial the menifest and we oppose it not , the great sacrifice........",e.t.cSorry the arabic script hasn't come out for some reason .
And there wasn't a lamb sacrificed according to this,is there?The people have made it up-sorry to say.
Salaams.
-
Peace brother MZ,
i wonder where ayman is !
I am around but things have been very busy. I volunteered to manage the Arabic language program at a local university and teach Arabic courses. This plus my regular work and travel schedule has been keeping me very busy. Now that I submitted the final grades for the semester and handed over the program to a full-time professor, hopefully I will have a little more time.
but here is something might be of interest
It wasn't Abraham who took off his shoes it was Moses,you are mixing up i think.
And it might not have been a dream , in those days there where traditions as well where the eldest son was offerred for sacrifice!
But check thisThe following is According to a website of a Cristian background.
A Definite Change In Meaning
While our purpose was solely to indicate letter differences and refute the idea that the Samarqand is ?an original whose content proves the modern version?, we note one example of a meaning which is altered (in Q37103) because of the letter differences which are present in the Samarqand MSS.
First we note the text from Page #652 of the Samarqand MSS (found in Appendix A) which plainly begins with the letters waw mim-alif. A transliteration of the text shown (see to right) would be wa ma ?aslamA.
The translation of this is "And they did not submit (become muslims)".
Beneath that we find the text of the 1924 Egyptian Edition which begins with the
letters fa-lam-mim-alif. A transliteration of the text would be falammA?slamA. The translation of this is "When they too submitted (became muslims)". This is the exact opposite of the Samarqand MSS!Page #652
-In line #2 the ?original? of Q37103 has waw then mim-alif, while the modern version has fa-lam-mim-alif (see p. 67 of main text)
-In line #4 the ?original? of Q37105 is without sad which the modern version has, and it has alif while the modern version has ta.
-In line #6 the ?original? of the same aya is without nun while the modern version has nun.
-In line #7 while the ?original? of Q37106 is without waw the modern version has waw.
-In line #8 the ?original? (same aya) is without ba which the modern version has.I would be interested in looking at the image of the page in question in the manuscript. Do you have the link?
Thanks,
Ayman
-
Salaams Ayman,
good to hear from you Br.
Here is the piece of info i saw
About one fifth of the way down of the following page
http//www.ai-deutschland.de/Main/PQ/ch9b-index.html#ch9b
look for the title
A DEFINITE CHANGE IN MEANINGThen
About a quarter of the way down the following page
http//www.ai-deutschland.de/Main/PQ/A4.htm#AppA4
look for
PAGE #652Gods Blessings.