The sincere Muslims will be taken out form hell-fire

jkhan

Honorable Mr. jkhan! offtopic honorable what for? Is this your habbit or this is how you honor every fabricated hadith?

You have replied to my three questions but these are not acceptable at all, because acceptance of such type of questions are authentic only from those who are the righteous companions (R.A.)
Of the holy Prophet Mohammad (may peace and mercy of Allah be upon),

and Tabieen (followers of these companions), and the follower of them, and also from the righteous scholars and mufassirens (commentators) of Islam (i.e. Ahlussunah wal jamaat), their commentaries are authentic in the world of Islam unanimously since fourteen hundred years ago or more.

But those modern scholars who invented “newly and unique opinions” into tafseer and hadith and other Islamic teachings, are rejected unanimously by the whole Muslim ummah. You can say this is the traditional Islam, but “modern Islam and modernism” has not made any place into traditional, and despite the pressure of the heel peak, these notable persons have not achieved any goal so for.

According to me, you also may be a righteous and saint man and have to intention to commit a sin, but your commentary or explanation about the questions and status of hadith, will not be accepted to any Muslim at all, thanks.

And, you are not accountable to me but will be accountable to Allah Almighty instead.

That's my business and accountability of me is between me my Creator... but i am not accountable for what you believe.. got it?

You accept and not accepting not relevant to me... If you gonna accept only the replies of those ancient hadith inventors, then why raise your question in this forum... Do you think still some ancient fellows live here...? And don't talk on behalf of all those muslims ... just remember you are an individual only and they practice in various ways in various hadiths in various groups.. you can't unite them.. just get out of this shackle.. don't we know what conventional muslims do practice and their inventions and their separation in every minute matter.. If possible answer in this forum, What exactly do you follow from Quran? Give me 5 examples that you follow perfectly according to quran and its instruction and commands... You don't follow anything from quran.. just lip service.. Quran is just to listen for you guys.. isn't it.. and a decoration to your shelf...

I wish you find your sharia law helps you but i am afraid... Now i may feel for all conventional muslims including you, but in case after judgement day if you are wrong and if those real believers are right, i will never have any kindness towards anyone who enter hell...
Finally .. read the book and beg for guidance if you can ... if you are adamant and then it is your life and live as you want... who has the right to change you...? Have we.. lol group

tlihawa

Salaam Fusion,

Nevertheless based on 448, the hadith you quoted whether its true or not , is in sync as long as those who were put to Hell fire did not commit shirk in their lives.

Regards

So you use 448 to justify the hadith and make it contradict with 280?

Brother jkhan has already put the perspective in place. Once you are put in hell there's no such thing as a sincere muslim. That's just fabricated lies by hadith and deceive you and make you put 448 stand against the 280 and 324.

Do not use any hadith invented by human to explain Quranic verses. Allah is very clear in His verses.

Let me put the 448 and get its meaning based on the explanation of other verses.

448 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.

449 Did you not note those who ascribe purity to themselves? No, it is God who purifies whom He wills, and they will not be wronged in the least.

450 See how they invent lies about God! And that is enough as a clear sin.

shaikhrafique is a good example on this case. He insisted that a person could be expelled from hell if he still had "a spot of imaan" in his chest, according to a hadith he quoted.

He judges a case by using hadith. Where these hadiths were written by someone who must have said "this is from Allah", and they said that these were the words of the prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad never issued books of hadith other than the Quran. This is just their imagination and conjecture.

Now, let's take a look at this verses,

279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say "This is from God," so that they can purchase with it a cheap price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they gained.

280 And they said "The Fire will not touch us except for a number of days." Say "Have you taken a pledge with God? If so, then God will not break His pledge. Or do you say about God what you do not know?"

What Shaikhrafiq has done is actually just repeating the mistakes of those before us.

First, he uses books written by people who said "this is from Allah".

Second, he confirmed this man-made book and said something about Allah that he has no knowledge.

Now again, look at this verses, does it look familiar to you?

Did you not note those who were given a portion of the Book being invited to the Book of God to judge between them, then a group of them turns away while they are adverse?
That is because they said "The Fire will not touch us except for a few number of days," and they were arrogant by what they invented in their religion.

he arrogantly promotes the use of the Sharia Law that they had invented, and doesn't even look at what Quran said, especially 280 and 3;24 which clearly contradict the hadith he brought.

In short, he prefers a man-made hadith over God's words!

Now let's go back to 448 and compare with what you said.

You said,

Nevertheless based on 448, the hadith you quoted whether its true or not , is in sync as long as those who were put to Hell fire did not commit shirk in their lives.

Do you expect all the people should be a quranist from the day they were born?

It is very difficult to find a person who is pure from shirk from their birth to death. Therefore God sent down the books through the messenger so that we can get out of the darkness into the light.

3164 God has bestowed grace upon the believers by sending them a messenger from among themselves reciting His revelations and purifying them and teaching them the Book and the wisdom, and they were before in manifest darkness.

So the most important thing is how we behave and decide while we are still alive and still healthy, and still able to decide which path to take, and then die in that belief.

1090 And We helped the Children of Israel cross the sea, and Firaun and his soldiers followed them out of hatred and animosity. But when he was certain to drown, he said "I believe that there is no god except the One in whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am of those who have submitted. <muslimina>"

1091 Now you say this? While before you disobeyed and were of the corrupters!

At the end of his life, Firaun acknowledged the oneness of God and declared himself a Muslim. He still had "a spot of imaan" in his chest. What do you think will be happened to Firaun?

Will he go to hell for a while and then move to Jannah forever?

Or does he will go to Jannah for some time and then move to hell forever?

No, do not follow the fabricated lies from the hadith and what they are invented.

Last thing, let me show you some forms of shirk,

Worship the ego besides God
Have you seen the one who has taken his desire as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?

2544 Or do you think that most of them hear or comprehend? They are just like hoofed animals. No, they are worse off.

If we live in greed and evil just for satisfying the ego, we are already commit shirk, because we only worship the ego, and do not fear Allah. Worse than animal. Don't live and die like that

Worship the Ulama, hadith writer, even the prophet

930 The Jews said "Ezra is the son of God," and the Nazarenes said "Al Masih is the son of God." Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth!

931 They have taken their Habr (religious leaders) and Monks to be patrons besides God, and Al Masih, son of Maryam, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god except He, be He glorified against what they set up.

The Jews obeyed their rabbis who made laws outside of the Taurat by making the Talmud which is said to contain "oral law" of the prophet Musa.

The Nazarene obey the priests who made an agreement at the Council of Nicaea to make Jesus God

And now both Sunni and Shia, appoint their respective "Ulema" as God besides Allah in the determination of the Law. They believe that what is written by Bukhari and his friends and the Shia Imams is the truth from God and cannot be contested.

1826 Say "God is fully aware how long they remained, to Him is the unseen of the heavens and the earth, He sees and hears. They do not have besides Him any ally, and He does not share in His judgment with anyone."

Allah has no partner in establishing His law. Not even with the Prophet, let alone just a hadith writer like Bukhari, and Imams.

There is no God but Allah

Salam

Fusion

Good morning brother tlihawa,
I thank you for your explanation and I correct myself on what I wrote.
I am taking this opportunity to ask you another some what related question. not to derail the thread off topic.
Most of the people on earth (on the surface as god knows whats inside heart) indulge is some form of Shirk (the very definition that you quoted verses) and they die too in that same state. It appears to me that in every generation (say 100 years) most likel 90% falls into the category of reaching death and still not correct themselves on this shirk in essence.

Does that mean mathematically 90% of the people born since adam until last day will be going to hell forever? is this not too harsh? I hope my understanding is wrong and you correct me.

For example most of the people dominate Christians intoday world, whether they are practising or not but one thing is obvious they do consider Jesus as Lord or equate him in some form like-god which is Shirk, hence my above observation.
No matter how good those folks do... eventually hell is their destination because of this very Shirk (again the verses you quote being Son of god etc).

if this is so... why the creator created such a world with all its semantics (the lust, the greed etc) where it is very very very hard for one to keep on straight path (tauheed point of view).

5030 On the Day We will say to Hell, "Have you been filled?" and it will say, "Are there some more,"
This is a very puzzling verse which brings those above thoughts into my mind. because hell is not some small space which directly means majority will end in hell in numbers. why God feels to mention this point where we have not even reach akhira... it is like saying there is no hope for masses, only few will join paradise as pre-determined.
I seek your advice on my above thoughts....

good day

Fusion

by mistake duplicate

tlihawa

Salaam Fusion,

Good morning brother tlihawa,
I thank you for your explanation and I correct myself on what I wrote.

Alhamdulillah.

I am taking this opportunity to ask you another some what related question. not to derail the thread off topic.
Most of the people on earth (on the surface as god knows whats inside heart) indulge is some form of Shirk (the very definition that you quoted verses) and they die too in that same state. It appears to me that in every generation (say 100 years) most likel 90% falls into the category of reaching death and still not correct themselves on this shirk in essence.

Does that mean mathematically 90% of the people born since adam until last day will be going to hell forever? is this not too harsh? I hope my understanding is wrong and you correct me.

This is also my favorite question. It's gonna be long, but I believe this is very important.

I always remind my family, my kids, my siblings, my parents, my friends who share the same understanding with me, that being a Quranist is just a beginning.

We have to implement what we already knew from the Quran, regardless on how deep our knowledge of the Quran itself.

Alhamdulillah, most of the verses that we have to implement are easy to understand and rarely debated about their meaning. These are the Muhkamat verses.

Let's take salat as example,

Some Quranist said it must be a ritual prayer, 3 or 5 times a day, or some form of contact prayer or indoctrinations, and for me it's a commitment to God's law.

People may have different views about the form of SALAT, but they should not differ in the purpose of the SALAT itself,

Recite what is inspired to you of the Book and uphold the commitment <SALAT>, for the commitment <SALAT> prevent immorality and evil deeds; but certainly the reminder of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.

Whatever form of SALAT you perform, it must prevent immorality and evil deeds.

If you SALAT by standing, bowing and prostrating 3 or 5 times a day and you still doing immorality and evil deeds, then you're not SALAT.

My Salat is to uphold and maintain commitment on God's law in Quran. For examples,

I will not cheat on my wife -- that's my Salat <commitment>
If my own company has produce a defect product I must recall the product before harming others, even though my company must bear the loss - That's my Salat <commitment>
I have to take care my parents and do good to them - That's my Salat
I would not be arrogant on the street, be polite to other people, - That's my Salat
I will keep all the agreements that have been mutually agreed, and I will do my best to fulfill my promise - That's my Salat.
I will share twenty percent of my income (in monthly basis) to my parents, the poor, relatives, orphans, people in debt and all the recipients of Sadaqah and Infaq as described in Quran - That's my Salat.
I will recite Quran three times a day, at dawn, twilight and evening as my commitment to understand what God wants from us
And many more

Salat is my commitment to God's law to prevent the immorality and evil deeds.

And of course, as you said, in everyday life we can make mistakes. But the believer will always realize when they did mistake, seeking for forgiveness and will not do it again

And those who, if they commit immorality, or wrong themselves, they remember God and seek forgiveness for their sins. And who can forgive the sins except God? And they do not persist in what they have done while they know.
To these the recompense will be forgiveness from their Lord and estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein. Excellent is the recompense of the workers.

So that's the believers. All we have to do is maintain that state and die as muslim.

So now hope you will understand more the meaning of the verses,

Or did you think that you would enter Paradise without God distinguishing those who would strive among you and distinguishing those who are patient?
And certainly you used to wish for death before you came upon it; so you have seen it while you were looking on.

The believer, who is confident in his Muslim state condition, will strive to always stay close to God and wish his death in this best state. Because they really struggle to maintain this Muslim state and afraid of slipping. But of course this is not death in a bad way like suicide, or the crime of suicide bombing.

It's like someone taking an exam in a classroom, where they already know all the answers, and are confident enough. This kind of person does not want to linger in the examination room. They really want to immediately submit the answer sheets and see the results of their work. Because they believe they have done according to the instructions in the book (kitab).

ok now you have understood that after acknowledging the one God, then the next thing is to uphold the commitment to reject immorality and evil deeds and do good deeds.

There's no way we can enter the Jannah without it. Because you know what? Allah wants the best.

672 The One who has created death and life, that He may test you, which of you is the best in deeds? He is the Noble, the Forgiving.

God doesn't want the average, He wants the best!

It's not an easy job to do and that's why we have to race to do good. And the consequence of this is that there will be very few people will be saved as you mentioned.

5610 And the forerunners, the forerunners.

5611 They will be the ones who are brought near.

5612 In gardens of bliss.

5613 Many from the first generations.

5614 And a few from the later generations.

If you want to talk about the number of the later generations, let me show you the percentage, my calculation from the book of revelation,

This is what will happen on the day of destruction (the last day)

Revelation 7
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Say, if the apocalypse happened today, then only 144,000 people who live today will be saved out of the 8 billion people on earth.

So t's gonna be like 0.00000018% compare to your 10% of your calculation. Remember, Allah wants the best. So being a Quranist is not a guarantee. We have to be the best in implementation also.

The easy way, if our behavior is still the same as the 144,0000 people around us, don't expect to enter the Jannah.

After prevent the immorality and evil deeds, and also strive with the money you love (20% of your income should go to the poor, orphan, family etc) then expect a test from God.

The more you do good and carry out all of God's commands, most likely you will go through suffering as a test from God.

Did the people think that they will be left to say "We believe" without being put to the test?
And We will test you with some fear and hunger, and a shortage in money and lives and wealth. And give good news to those who are patient.

By doing good do not expect that your life will be fine and be given various pleasures, because in fact the test in suffering is something that is required so that we can enter Jannah.

Or did you expect that you would enter Jannah, while the example of those who were before you came to you; they were stricken with adversity and hardship, and they were shaken until the messenger and those who believed with him said "When is the victory of God?" Yes indeed, the victory of God is near.

This test will be very hard, you may lose your job, lose your wealth, but at the same time you are still required to do good (do charity in adversity) and prevent the evil deeds.

You will be given difficult choices, where you will be asked to choose whether to remain patient in the way of Allah, or to overcome problems in an evil way.

Therefore, even though God promises not to burden someone beyond his ability, this prayer will continue to be needed,

God does not burden a soul except with what it can bear. For it is what it earns, and against it is what it earns. "Our Lord, do not mind us if we forget or make mistakes; our Lord, do not place a burden upon us as You have placed upon those before us; our Lord, do not place upon us what we cannot bear; pardon us, and forgive us, and have mercy on us; You are our patron, so grant us victory over the rejecting people."

245 And seek help through patience and through the commitment. It is a difficult thing, but not so for the humble.

So expect to be tested by Allah, because if not then it will really bad for us,

So you will see, and they will see.

686 Which of you are tested.

having this understanding, you will see that it's really not make any sense that someone with "a spot of imaan" in his/her chest and did evil deeds for his /her whole life will enter the Jannah after being burnt in hell for his sins. No way, there's no such a way.

4915 Believers are those who believe in God and His messenger, then they became without doubt, and they strive with their money and their lives in the cause of God. These are the truthful ones.

For example most of the people dominate Christians intoday world, whether they are practising or not but one thing is obvious they do consider Jesus as Lord or equate him in some form like-god which is Shirk, hence my above observation.
No matter how good those folks do... eventually hell is their destination because of this very Shirk (again the verses you quote being Son of god etc).

Let alone the Christians, many Sunni and Shia who worship Bukhari or their Imams are also looks sincere and doing good deeds. I have asked God regarding this, and He said,

449 Did you not note those who ascribe purity to themselves? No, it is God who purifies whom He wills, and they will not be wronged in the least.

450 See how they invent lies about God! And that is enough as a clear sin.

So it is very important to do good deeds on top of the monotheism.

And their commitment <SALAT> at the House was nothing but noise and aversion. Taste the retribution for what you have rejected.

And I know you know why ),

448 God does not forgive that partners be set up with Him, and He forgives other than that for whom He pleases. Whoever sets up partners with God has indeed invented a great sin.

if this is so... why the creator created such a world with all its semantics (the lust, the greed etc) where it is very very very hard for one to keep on straight path (tauheed point of view).

5030 On the Day We will say to Hell, "Have you been filled?" and it will say, "Are there some more,"
This is a very puzzling verse which brings those above thoughts into my mind. because hell is not some small space which directly means majority will end in hell in numbers. why God feels to mention this point where we have not even reach akhira... it is like saying there is no hope for masses, only few will join paradise as pre-determined.
I seek your advice on my above thoughts....

good day

Brother Fusion,
you're not the only one asking this question. prophet Ezra had also asked the same question to God, let me show you. Please read this carefully, a wisdom from Book of Ezra,

2 Esdras Chapter VII

45 I answered, “I said then, O Lord, and I say now Blessed are those who are now alive and keep your commandments!

46 But what about those for whom I prayed? For who is there of those who are alive who has not sinned, and who of the children of men hasn’t transgressed your covenant?

47 Now I see that the world to come will bring delight to few, but torments to many.

48 For an evil heart has grown up in us, which has led us astray from these commandments and has brought us into corruption and into the ways of death. It has shown us the paths of perdition and removed us far from life—and that, not a few only, but nearly all who have been created.”

49 He answered me, “Listen to me, and I will instruct you. I will admonish you yet again.

50 For this reason, the Most High has not made one world, but two.

51 For because you have said that the just are not many, but few, and the ungodly abound, hear the explanation.

52 If you have just a few precious stones, will you add them to lead and clay?”

53 I said, “Lord, how could that be?”

54 He said to me, “Not only that, but ask the earth, and she will tell you. Defer to her, and she will declare it to you.

55 Say to her, ‘You produce gold, silver, and brass, and also iron, lead, and clay;

56 but silver is more abundant than gold, and brass than silver, and iron than brass, and lead than iron, and clay than lead.’

57 Judge therefore which things are precious and to be desired, what is abundant or what is rare?”

58 I said, “O sovereign Lord, that which is plentiful is of less worth, for that which is more rare is more precious.”[

59 He answered me, “Weigh within yourself the things that you have thought, for he who has what is hard to get rejoices over him who has what is plentiful.

60 So also is the judgment which I have promised; for I will rejoice over the few that will be saved, because these are those who have made my glory to prevail now, and through them, my name is now honored.

61 I won’t grieve over the multitude of those who perish; for these are those who are now like mist, and have become like flame and smoke; they are set on fire and burn hotly, and are extinguished.”

Hope you will understand brother. Inyasa Allah.

Salaam

Fusion

Thank you again tlihawa for taking the time and explain in such detail.
I will make some statements, observations and further queries for you to please advice upon.

I have also noticed (personally) that the more I try to follow the straight path (in all walks of life as you gave examples), the more test awaits me in form of worldly issues and also when I starts do drift way, the issues also drifts away. Maybe this is my illusion, but I agree with your following statement
"The more you do good and carry out all of God's commands, most likely you will go through suffering as a test from God."
I have also noticed that some people in old age gets all kinds of health issues yet they continue to have faith and pray to God, perhaps Gods wants to make sure when they die they will be in peace. and he needs to ensure these passes the test.

I have a small trouble understanding your reasoning... My point was actually those folks who (associate partners with God because of the culture they are in) and same time do all good things (which you mentioned - charity , parents etc) would most likely end up in hell as per the definition of Shirk... yet they were so nice to others and perform good for humanity. why??

Lastly, if you think the numbers are so less, and majority are misguided... then what about the collective human intellect that this world has seen? where humans produce and create so many inventions for the better of humanity.. I mean you should then leave all the things that you are enjoying now (computer, cars, medicines, houses, infra structure, clean water, medical support) and go and live in a jungle and make your own world away from civilization. Because it is like being hypocrite that you benefit from all those men creations in daily life and same time sort of condemn them for hell? is it not harsh of you?

No offence please.

Thanks

jkhan

Thank you again tlihawa for taking the time and explain in such detail.
I will make some statements, observations and further queries for you to please advice upon.

I have also noticed (personally) that the more I try to follow the straight path (in all walks of life as you gave examples), the more test awaits me in form of worldly issues and also when I starts do drift way, the issues also drifts away. Maybe this is my illusion, but I agree with your following statement
"The more you do good and carry out all of God's commands, most likely you will go through suffering as a test from God."
I have also noticed that some people in old age gets all kinds of health issues yet they continue to have faith and pray to God, perhaps Gods wants to make sure when they die they will be in peace. and he needs to ensure these passes the test.

I have a small trouble understanding your reasoning... My point was actually those folks who (associate partners with God because of the culture they are in) and same time do all good things (which you mentioned - charity , parents etc) would most likely end up in hell as per the definition of Shirk... yet they were so nice to others and perform good for humanity. why??

Lastly, if you think the numbers are so less, and majority are misguided... then what about the collective human intellect that this world has seen? where humans produce and create so many inventions for the better of humanity.. I mean you should then leave all the things that you are enjoying now (computer, cars, medicines, houses, infra structure, clean water, medical support) and go and live in a jungle and make your own world away from civilization. Because it is like being hypocrite that you benefit from all those men creations in daily life and same time sort of condemn them for hell? is it not harsh of you?

No offence please.

Thanks

Brother Tlihawa.. Peace

i am more fond of your concise explanation for whatever concealed or unknown reasons... you might have seen i am raising question on everyone's explanation in the forum until i get better picture what they portray... But i am so clement towards your understanding.. i don't know i used the right word.. anyway i am glad you are in this forum at least once in blue moon..

relevant to salat... it is okay what you have chosen... but still you kept silent on this question i hope i asked in one of the previous occasions. .. in 2458 then the children witnessing their parents before fajr salat and after isha salat is reading quran.. ? in chapter 4103 they recited quran all being together and letting another group standing and guarding them until they finish reading quran.. in chapter Jumma.. Can't the believers recite quran without leaving their business ? .. shut the shops but they can recite quran in their homes and why to converge to a place to recite quran? Don't you think while salat is commitment / ethics in quran at the same it has a meaning of prayer for which time is fixed...? of course salat=commitment / ethics... wa akeem salat wa athuzakath (establish morals/ commitment and bring forth betterment / purification.. but what makes you thing salat is merely commitment...
How can this verse makes sense... Read Quran and establish commitment(salat)... while salat itself for you is reading quran ... God has clearly used READ QURAN and why opt for word salat as READ QURAN..?

would you answer pls with some better explanation..

@brother Fusion Peace..

I have noticed you have impatience even you grasp it or not others can grasp it.. at least i perceive that within you..
Collective effort of human being have nothing to do with our faith and our commitment towards God.. If Someone invented TV through his hard work and he would never have intended that he wanted to facilitate entire human being.. it was his passion he prevailed.. but later on it developed and it reaches to people and not free.. for every single item we use we pay and it is commercialized. do you copy that?
if one is born to a disbelieving parent, it doesnt mean he also should be disbeliever to respect parents.. He can follow what is right path but still respect parents.. we respect all those who are commited to provide us better life.. for example people do respect the company they work.. it doesnt' mean we also should follow what company's owner's faith is..
King pharou said He is the King and everything was his.. Yes He might have developed that nation and people enjoyed it.. but faith you can't sell... King pharou said to Musa, i gave you everything and grew here now you go against me... just reflect..
God created not the earth and heavens in vain but with great purpose.. Rejection of Creator is not something simple a human can do..

tlihawa

Salam Fusion,

I have a small trouble understanding your reasoning... My point was actually those folks who (associate partners with God because of the culture they are in) and same time do all good things (which you mentioned - charity , parents etc) would most likely end up in hell as per the definition of Shirk... yet they were so nice to others and perform good for humanity. why??

I've thought about this. Some of my friends, some are sunni, and some are christian, they are very kind, friendly, and seem not stingy and like to help people.

I think it will be easy for them to accept true monotheism, because of their "sincerity".

To the Sunnis, I invite them to return to the true monotheism by leaving the books of Hadith and to the purity of God's message in the Qur'an. And to the Christians, I invite them to return to the purity of the Injeel message where there is not a single verse in the Bible that says that Jesus is God. You don't need to convert to be a "muslim" just be like a tawhid Christian, such as a unitarian.

Do you know what their answer is?

Sunni who had been friendly, turned into someone full of anger and hatred. Christians who were friendly and kind, turned to blaspheme against Christian sects that did not deify Jesus.

2170 And if they are told "Follow what God has sent down," they say "No, we will follow what we found our fathers doing!" What if their fathers did not comprehend anything and were not guided?

2171 And the example of those who disbelieve is like one who repeats what he has heard of calls and cries; deaf, dumb, and blind, they do not comprehend.

So they defend their "culture they are in, that associate partners with God ". They can be seen as kind, friendly and polite. But try to invite them to God Alone and see what they say.

Some of them might politely refuse and choose not to talk about it. I have some friends who are like that. But I see that they really have no interest in the God Almighty.

Is this fair to the God who created them?

Brother Fusion,
First, you think even a bad person should be saved from hell if he still believes in one God or doesn't commit shirk. (you are using 448 in here)

Now, you're thinking that good persons should be saved from hell even though they are commit shirk because their fathers or culture said so. (why you're not using 448 in here?)

You keep defend and arguing for them.

4109 Here you are arguing on their behalf in this world, but who will argue on their behalf with God on the Day of Resurrection? Or, who will be their sponsor?

Allah wants people who acknowledge there is no god but Allah and also do good in this world and restrain evil.

Will you defend the interests of Allah and argue against them?

Let see this two type of person

a bad person who do evil, have free sex, cheat on people to get rich quick, the murderer and so on
a good person who is kind, polite, live the life according to the rules in their polytheist belief.

Who do you think will lose the most between these two?

18103 Say "Shall we inform you of the greatest losers?"

18104 "Those whose efforts in the worldly life were wasted while they thought they were doing good!"

18105 These are the ones who rejected the revelations of their Lord and His meeting. So their works were in vain, and We will not give them any value on the Day of Resurrection.

Even bad people will never see that their actions are good. So the Surah Al Kahfi above is not for them.

It is for people who sincerely do good, give charity, help others, under the polytheism. And when called to the God Alone or true monotheism, they don't care, and even some of them refuse vehemently. That's why God called them greatest losers. Because they expect something "in their kindness" that they will never achieve.

Please read again this verse brother,

6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

Look at around you, when God said "most of them", were you surrounded by swindlers, murderers, adulterers, etc.? How can you be lead astray by the swindler and murderer ?

Not. they are only a small part of society.

I'm mostly surrounded by good people who are generous, kind, obey the rules but they commit shirk, regardless their label sunni, shia, hindu, christian etc

We are more easily deceived by the sweet words of religious leaders, people who we think are good, swear in the name of God, but they promote gods other than Allah.

2204 And from among the people are those whose words you admire in this worldly life, but God is witness as to what is in his heart, for he is the most quarrelsome opposition.

So remember brother, you only judge them by their outward appearance, that they look kind, generous and helpful, but only Allah knows what's in their heart. If you are curious, just try to ask them to leave the divinity of Jesus if they are Christians or get rid of the hadith books and their Imaams if they are Sunni or Shia, and then you will see..

Lastly, if you think the numbers are so less, and majority are misguided... then what about the collective human intellect that this world has seen? where humans produce and create so many inventions for the better of humanity.. I mean you should then leave all the things that you are enjoying now (computer, cars, medicines, houses, infra structure, clean water, medical support) and go and live in a jungle and make your own world away from civilization. Because it is like being hypocrite that you benefit from all those men creations in daily life and same time sort of condemn them for hell? is it not harsh of you?
Thanks

I'm assuming that you live in an area where a lot of people are Sunni or Salafi, where they promote and spread hatred too much for other than them and different from them. Everything is haram for them.. Music is haram, Facebook is haram, even celebrating the birthday of the prophet is haram, because it is an infidel product. Their hadith says, "Whoever imitates a people, then they are part of that people."

So that's why you think that I have to behave like them, and I will be look like a hypocrite by using the mushrikun's technologies.

These mushrikun who invent the technologies I used, mostly they are good people to me, They don't throw me out from my home and not fight me just because I worship God alone. So there's no reason I have to fight them or hate them, or boycott their products.

608 God does not prohibit you from those who have not fought you because of your Diin, nor drove you out of your homes, that you deal kindly and equitably with them. For God loves the equitable.

I will be a hypocrite if I buy a PC and install the pirated software on it, while I'm spreading the God's word about integrity
I will be a hypocrite if I said Facebook is Haram while spreading those message through the Facebook itself
and so on

as long as there is honest trading, there is no problem using these technologies. Deal kindly and equitably with them (608 ).

And it will also be very difficult for us to do good if we always act exclusively.

I haven't found any Quranist or Christian tawheed orphanage near my home, so far my charity only been given to Sunni or Christian based orphanages or public orphanages.

I also can't ask the beggars on the roadside what their beliefs are.. everything is done only on top of the humanity. Let their beliefs be their business with God.

Salam

shaikhrafique

Reply to Mr.talihawa! welcome

having this understanding, you will see that it's really not make any sense that someone with "a spot of imaan" in his/her chest and did evil deeds for his /her whole life will enter the Jannah after being burnt in hell for his sins. No way, there's no such a way.

Peace

Respected one,

You have written a detailed article to prove your point of view by quoting many verses of the holy Quran, but this may be differing from the unanimous stance of the majority of the Muslims Ummah, and as the principle, no any agreed upon Islamic belief or issue, can be changed by the individual opinion of a man to the whole Ummah.

Whatever form of SALAT you perform, it must prevent immorality and evil deeds.

If you SALAT by standing, bowing and prostrating 3 or 5 times a day and you still doing immorality and evil deeds, then you're not SALAT.

My Salat is to uphold and maintain commitment on God's law in Quran. For examples,

I will not cheat on my wife -- that's my Salat <commitment>
If my own company has produce a defect product I must recall the product before harming others, even though my company must bear the loss - That's my Salat <commitment>
I have to take care my parents and do good to them - That's my Salat
I would not be arrogant on the street, be polite to other people, - That's my Salat
I will keep all the agreements that have been mutually agreed, and I will do my best to fulfill my promise - That's my Salat.
I will share twenty percent of my income (in monthly basis) to my parents, the poor, relatives, orphans, people in debt and all the recipients of Sadaqah and Infaq as described in Quran - That's my Salat.
I will recite Quran three times a day, at dawn, twilight and evening as my commitment to understand what God wants from us
And many more

I became very impressed about what you wrote about performing Slat and it is very good idea that, “I will not cheat on my wife”, and” I have to take care my parents and do good to them - That's my Salat”, and” I would not be arrogant on the street, be polite to other people, - That's my Salat” etc.

All is just right and every Muslim must do it, but the question is in case, if someone does not possess such fair qualities and a sinful man instead.

For example, he is disobedience one to his parents, and cheats others or tease them and suppress other’s rights etc.
Whether he should not perform Salats or other worships, thinking that “I am a sinful man and what benefit will my prayers and other worship give me? So he does not offer and worship, whether this is right?

Because every man is sinful including me and you, except angels, but Allah’s mercy is unlimited and He will forgive all the sins except shirk.

Therefore, according to Islamic teachings, good actions will be rewarded and man will be punished due to bad actions. So he should not forsake his worships…… whether this is right or wrong?

Do not use any hadith invented by human to explain Quranic verses. Allah is very clear in His verses.

Bro you wrote that,” Do not use any hadith invented by human to explain Quranic verses. Allah is very clear in His verses”. And according to you Prophet Mohammad PBUH had not written any book except the holy Quran revealed on him and he gave it to his Ummah,

it is just right because all the books of hadith are compiled by other righteous Muslims. You say that holy Quran is sufficient for us and any invented hadith should not be used to explain Quranic verses.

So, explain this Qur’anic verse without explanation of a hadith by your own method -

” Establish worship, pay the poor-due, and bow your heads with those who bow (in worship)”. (Al-Baqara) 243).
(1) What is the correct method to perform an obligatory Salat?
(2) How many units should be offered in Salat Zuhar, Asar or in other Salats?
(3) How many are the obligations (fraiz) of Salat?
(4) How many are the wajibat of Salat?
(5) By which action the Salat goes invalid?
(6) If a man commits any mistake in Slat, how can he reform it by ‘sajda sahwah’?

Because we have known all about that, according to the saying of the holy Prophet PBUTH , صلوا کما راتمونی اصلی “offer Salat just as I am offering it”.
And according to you, all hadiths are fabricated, so if our Salat are erroneous, then please correct them by your own method? I
request you that you should tell us about your own Salat whatever you offer, though what should be its method, no problem?

(1) Also, what is the fixed amount of Zakat, and to whom it should be payed?
(2) Who should pay Zakat (poor-due) and who are deserving to receive it?
(3) How can a believer observer fasts of Ramadan and what are its terms and conditions according the holy Quran?

The faithful believers are buried after death while the Hindus are burnt into fire and then their ashes are shed into river etc. If you are the Muslim, then it is sure that you do not burn your dead and offer funeral prayer on them, so prove the complete method of funeral prayer from the holy Quran?

I am sure that you can never prove this though writing more and more replies!

All these questioned should be replied only in the light of the holy Quran and not by hadith?
Thanks.

tlihawa

Salam jkhan,

relevant to salat... it is okay what you have chosen... but still you kept silent on this question i hope i asked in one of the previous occasions. .. in 2458 then the children witnessing their parents before fajr salat and after isha salat is reading quran.. ? in chapter 4103 they recited quran all being together and letting another group standing and guarding them until they finish reading quran.. in chapter Jumma.. Can't the believers recite quran without leaving their business ? .. shut the shops but they can recite quran in their homes and why to converge to a place to recite quran? Don't you think while salat is commitment / ethics in quran at the same it has a meaning of prayer for which time is fixed...? of course salat=commitment / ethics... wa akeem salat wa athuzakath (establish morals/ commitment and bring forth betterment / purification.. but what makes you thing salat is merely commitment...
How can this verse makes sense... Read Quran and establish commitment(salat)... while salat itself for you is reading quran ... God has clearly used READ QURAN and why opt for word salat as READ QURAN..?

would you answer pls with some better explanation..

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous posts regarding SALAT. I have limited words in English to describe it since it's not my main language.

But let me do my best to explain it again.

I got the meaning of SALAT from the following verses,

7531 falā saddaqa walā sallā
7532 walākin kadhaba watawallā

7531 For he did not accept the truth nor salla
7532 But he denied and turned away.

Saddaqa = accept the truth
La Saddaqa = didn't accept the truth = kadhaba = denied

La Salla = didn't Salla = Turned Away
Salla = Not turned away

So SALAT is not turn away, and I simplify this word as commitment.

The question is, commitment to what?

I have put many examples on what commitment should be made upon. But this really depends on the context of the verses. But let me put a verse that I think can explain much.

4103 Once you are done with SALAT, then remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, when you are secure, uphold the SALAT. Indeed, SALAT for the believers is a book that is scheduled.

As you can see, there are two salat in here

the one that already done
the one that will be done when they are secure, this SALAT is a book that is scheduled.

Let's take a look at the first one and find the context.

4101 And if you go forth in the land, then there is no harm that you taqsurū mina l-salati, if you fear that the disbelievers will try you. The disbelievers are to you a clear enemy.

4102 And if you are with them (the disbelievers) and you lead salata for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have sajadū then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet yusallu come and falyusallu with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.

These two verses is clearly about war between the believers and the disbeliever. In 4101, believers may taqsuru minal salati (I'll let them untranslated so we can derive the meaning later) if they fear that disbeliever will try them.

And take a look at this,

4102 And if you are with them and you establish SALATA for them....

"Them" in here is clearly refer to the disbelievers.. But my question is how the prophet and the believers when among them, establish the SALAT for them?

Put any SALAT forms that you can think to this verse. How the prophet lead the SALAT to the DISBELIEVERS? And why on earth the Disbelievers need to do SALAT with the prophet and his followers? They are disbelievers, off course.

Now let me put my understanding of SALAT on this verse,

4102 And if you are with them (the disbelievers) and you establish COMMITMENT (SALATA) for them....

Now it has more sense to me... But still raise a question... Commitment to what?

Let's go back a bit to understand the context of this verse

489 They hope that you will disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you will be the same. Do not take any of them as allies until they emigrate in the cause of God. If they turn away, then take them and kill them wherever you find them; and do not take from them any ally or supporter.

490 Except for those who reach a people with whom you have a covenant, or if they come to you with a reluctance in their chests to fight you or to fight their own people. Had God willed He would have given them strength and they would have fought you. But if they retire from you, and do not fight you, and they offer you peace; then God does not make for you a path against them.

So now as you can see above, there are two kind of disbelievers

Disbelievers that wants to turn you to disbelievers again just like them. For this you should fight them and kill them
Disbelievers that offer you peace to whom the believers have covenant. Allah did not provide a way to fight them

So now, there's a commitment being made with the disbelievers who want live in peace.

But they are still a disbeliever.. and if the prophet and believers go forth in the land and they fear that this disbelievers will try them, they can withdraw from the peace treaty. Or restrain from the commitment of peace. It's called taqsuru minal salati

taqsuru = Qaf-Sad-Ra = become short, have little or no power, become niggardly, fall short, i.e. not to reach something, left/relinquish/abstain/desist/cease, took from its length, clip/shove, restricted/confined/limited, kept within certain bounds or limits, restrain/withheld, hinder/prevent, contract or draw oneself together, obedient, last part of day. qasr (pl. qusur) - ample and spacious house, castle, palace.

So now it's clear to me that SALAT or commitment here is about the peace with the disbelievers who don't want fight. And might be restrained if they fear that the disbelievers will try them.

Ok, let's continue.

So 4102 is about the ordinances of how to carry out a peace treaty with the disbelievers who don't want to fight, without losing vigilance against those who do not want to make peace.

4102 And if you are with them (the disbelievers) and you establish SALATA (commitment of peace) for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have sajadū (submitted to the covenant) then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet yusallu (make a commitment) come and falyusallu (make comitmment) with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The disbelievers (who don't want piece) hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating retribution.

Let's continue to 4103,

4103 Then, if you have completed the commitment (of peace), remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, if you are secure, hold the commitment (that related to the books). Indeed, the commitment (SALAT) for the believers is a Book that is scheduled.

So when the believers has completed the commitment to the peace with the disbelievers, and they are secure, they shall continue to another commitment that related to the books that is scheduled.

And what is that? to recite the Quran at the scheduled time.

2945 Recite what is inspired to you of the Book and uphold the commitment, for the commitment prohibits immorality and evil deeds; but certainly the reminder of God is the greatest. God knows everything you do.

When is the schedule for recite the book?

1778 Uphold the commitment <salat> at the inclined setting of the sun, until the darkening of the night; and the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed

You can see here that Salat is related to reading the Quran at the dawn, and dusk.

11114 And uphold the commitment<salat> at two ends of the day, and the near side of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.

The point is that you uphold the commitment to the God reminder (Ad dhikr)

2014 "I am God, there is no god except Me, so serve Me and uphold commitment (wa aqimisalaata) for My reminder <li dhikri>

For 2458,

2458 O you who believe, let those among you who are committed to by your oath, and those who have not attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before the SALATIL FAJRI (dawn), and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the SALATIL ISHA (evening). These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

Since SALAT here is related to the schedule, then the context here is to recite the Quran.. It took only 5 to 10 mins for me to read the Quran on this scheduled time.. I usually read 50 verses per appointed time. There's no problem with that.

So as you can see you cannot put SALAT = Recite the Quran on every verses that talk about SALAT. It's really depend on the context.

For example,

1187 They said "O Shu'ayb, does your SALAT order you that we leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please? It seems only you are the compassionate, the wise!"

Prophet Shuayb clearly didn't recite the Quran at the moment he ordered his people to stop their evil deeds.. It is prophet Shuayb commitment <SALAT> on what God had revealed to him to ask his people to avoid evil deeds.. as mentioned in this verse before

1185 "And my people, give full in the measure and the weight equitably, and do not hold back from the people what is theirs, and do not roam the land corrupting."

And surely prophet Shuayb didn't do any ritual of standing, bowing and prostate to order his people to avoid evil deeds.

SALAT is something that everybody know. It's a universal things, as shown below,

5106 O you who believe, witnessing shall be done if death is approaching one of you and a will is being made-by two who are equitable amongst you. Or, by two others from other than you if you have gone forth in the land and death is approaching. If you have doubt regarding them, then you will hold them after SALAT, and let them swear by God "We will not purchase with it any price, even if it was from a near relative, and we will not conceal the testimony of God, else we are of the sinners."

Witnessing a will shall be done by two people among you (Prophet Muhammad's follower) or two others from you (any other prophet/messenger's follower). You have to hold them after SALAT and let them swear by God...

The questions is, if SALAT is something that only prophet Muhammad's follower would understand, then how you perform will witnessing if there are only witness that not prophet Muhammad's follower?

Do you want to teach them on how to read Quran? or how to standing, bow and prostate?

But if you talk about commitment to what they will witnessing, surely they would understand.

For the Yaumil Jumuah, you can find my opinion in here,

Salam Fusion,
I have a very different opinion regarding Salat and I saw that it's not relevant to your question since I think you do believe that Salat is like Namaz and your question is about how to perform, right?

But I would suggest you to examine first the word Yaumil Jumu'ati in 629. Does it really means Friday or the sixth day of the week?

Let me collect these verses together with the same words means "The Day of Gathering" so you can draw your own conclusion,

427 And thus We have inspired to you a Qur'an in Arabic, so that you may warn the mother of towns and all around it, and to warn about the Day of Gathering <yaumal jam'i> that is inevitable. A group will be in Paradise, and a group in Hell.

The Day of Gathering here means something that's inevitable and need to be warned.. Does it mean Friday or sixth day of the week?

Let's look at another verse,

649 The Day when He will gather you < yawmal yajmaukum>; the Day of Gathering <liyawmil jam'i>; that is the Day of mutual gain/loss. And whoever believes in God and does good works, He will forgive his sins, and will admit him into estates with rivers flowing beneath them, abiding therein eternally. Such is the great triumph.

Here it is very clear that The Day of Gathering here is a day that has not come yet, because on this day all mankind will be gathered on the last day.
So in here the day of gathering is also not the Friday or sixth day of the week.

Now let's go back two chapters with the same verse number from 649 to 629,

629 yāayyuhā alladhīna āmanū idhā nūdiya lilṣṣalati min yawmi l-jumuʿati....

Most people would interpret yawmil jumu'ati <The Day of Gathering> here as Friday, or sixth day of the week.

But keep in mind that Friday's naming of the sixth day of the week is due to the interpretation of this verse. They randomly choose the sixth day to be agreed as yaumil jumuah or The Day of Gathering .

Maybe not random either, but most likely influenced by hadith which is based on competition with other belief, Sabbath for Jews and Sunday for Christian.

Let me show you the hadith,

Narrated Abu Huraira

I heard Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) (p.b.u.h) saying, "We (Muslims) are the last (to come) but (will be) the foremost on the Day of Resurrection though the former nations were given the Holy Scriptures before us. And this was their day (Friday) the celebration of which was made compulsory for them but they differed about it. So Allah gave us the guidance for it (Friday) and all the other people are behind us in this respect the Jews' (holy day is) tomorrow (i.e. Saturday) and the Christians' (is) the day after tomorrow (i.e. Sunday)."

How is it possible for the Jews to be behind when the week count starts at 1 (ahad)?

yawm alaHad means Day1 - Sunday (Christian)
yawm alithneen means Day 2 - Monday
yawm atthhulatha' means Day 3 - Tuesday
yawm alarbi3a' means Day 4 - Wednesday
yawm alkhamees means Day 5 - Thursday
yawm aljuma3a means Day of Gathering - Friday (Hadith)
yawm assabt means Day 7 - Saturday (Jews)

These day's name of the week are of course, related to numbers! Starting with Sunday as the first day of the week, the week mostly counts upward to seven. However the hadith ignores this fact and chooses the sixth day of the week (which should be named Yawm Alsittah or Day 6) changed the name to Yawm AlJumuah, just for the reason that "today comes before tomorrow, so we are better" ;D

But it is interesting to see another reason from the following hadith,

“The best day on which the sun has risen is Friday; on it Adam was created and on it he was made to enter Paradise.

On Friday, also, Adam was expelled from Paradise.

And the hour (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) will take place on no day other than Friday.” (Muslim)

It seems that they read the Taurat and knew that Adam was created on the sixth day, and they knew that actually Yaumil Jumuati was not the sixth day of the week but the last day or the day of resurrection. But some of them were not truly believers, and they said,

481 And they say "Obedience," but when they come out from being with you, a group of them prepares for other than what you have said, and God records what they planned. So turn away from them and put your trust in God. God is enough for your trust.

And then the meaning of Yawmil Jumuah shifted from the last day to the sixth day of the week.

Ok, back to 629.

Say the meaning of salat is to pray or namaz. And we know that Yaumil Jumuah (the day of gathering) is the last day, then the call for salat is of course useless.. It's too late to pray when it's time for the gathering day (Yaumil Jumuah) or the day of resurrection.

So how do we deal with this?

I have put a lot of my opinion regarding this in this forum. But this requires understanding that Salat is not a ritual form like namaz . You can find my old posts in here,

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596565.msg293617#msg293617

and in here regarding 629, just follow the discussion on this thread.

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611531.10

Peace

And more in here

https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9596565.msg293617#msg293617

629 yāayyuhā alladhīnaāmanū idhā nūdiya lilssalati min yawmil-jumuati fa-is'aw ilā dhik'ri l-lahi wadharū l-bay'a dhālikum khayrun lakum in kuntum ta'lamūna

629 O you who believe, when the call is made for the commitment of the day of gathering, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all trading. This is better for you, if only you knew.

Just be aware that 629 put the word min in between SALAT and Yaumil Jumuah, to prevent the meaning "at the day". So it should be "of the day".

Salatil Fajri = SALAT at the dawn
Salatil Isha = SALAT at the evening

SALATI MIN YAUMIL JUMUAH = SALAT (Commitment) of the Day of the gathering (the last day).

Yaumil Jumuah/Gathering Day (629) = Yawmil Jam'i/Gathering Day (649) = Yaumul Taghabuni/Day of mutual gain and loss (in the context of trading) (649) = Yaumil Qiyamati/the Day of assembly (4526) = Yaumun la bay'un/ No trading day (2254).

It's all about to audit your business and trading.

Make sure that you don't cheat in your business in all aspects.

There are three things in this verse

Commitment to the yaumil jumuah (the day with no buy and sell)
Get back to the dhikr'i (Noun) or God's reminder ( Al Quran)
Cease all trading
Make sure every aspect of your business inline with the Quran
If it's ok then you shall continue your business (6210)

Salam

Fusion

Very well explained tlihawa and I do not wish to enter into discussion between you and him.
Just if you can add one clarification.

The Salat or other forms of worship like Fasting is not something new to prophet mohammed. and as mentioned in Quran these two words salat and Fasting were attributed to previous nations as well.

Hence, have you thought that your understanding of salat which is derived from the verses you quote.... meaning "you could very well be wrong"??? but to me this is ok because you tried to understand with all your good intention.

However why assuming that of all the people those millions of people who interpreted the meaning in the form that we see today (shia/sunni/salafii -- 99% is same act in essence) got it wrong while you got it right?

You could argue with their understanding of hadiths. but why not also agree that let them perform the rituals as their understanding becaue in the end, they recite Quran and they do all acts of sujod, ruko etc.. Its not that bad?

While we should keep in mind that other nations before prophet also indulge in salat and they may not have these verses of Quran so if you look at those nations (jews for eg). more or less same ritual.

Thanks

hawk99

All these questioned should be replied only in the light of the holy Quran and not by hadith?

Correct! ) Use Quran alone

God bless you peace

tlihawa

Salaam shaikhrafique,

I am sure that you can never prove this though writing more and more replies!

Yes you're right. If you already sure about that, then nothing can stop you.

My Lord told me that,

7146 I will turn away from My revelations (ayatiya) those who are arrogant on the earth without right, and if they see every ayatin they do not believe in it, and if they see the path of guidance they do not take it as a path; and if they see the path of mischief, they take it as a path. That is because they have denied Our revelations and were heedless of them.

So why should I bring all the verses of Allah to you?

All these questioned should be replied only in the light of the holy Quran and not by hadith?
Thanks.

I think Quran is not enough for you.

You need other books outside of the Quran to explain Allah's verses, even though Allah clearly states that the explanations of the Qur'an are in the Qur'an itself.

2185 The month of Ramadhan, in which the Qur'an was sent down as a guide to the people and a clarification of the guidance and the criterion.....

Some people like you have asked the Prophet Muhammad to bring something other than the Quran, the prophet Muhammad clearly refused and stated that it was not proper for him to bring anything else, other than Quran.

1015 And when Our clear revelations were recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Qur'an other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it of my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if I disobeyed my Lord, the retribution of a great Day!"

Why do you keep insist on making the same mistakes? Does Quran really not enough for you?

544 .....And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the KAFIR.

545 .....And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the ZALIM.

547 ....And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the FASIQ.

I'm sure you know what those words means..

548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, affirming what is between your hands of the Book and guarding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth.

So I don't see any relevance to answer your questions that based on your knowledge which coming from outside the Quran. My answer won't be relevant to you.

My advice is you better argue with yourself, double check everything. Ask yourself.

You can start with the most basic things first

Do you believe in Qur'an?
Is it true that the hadiths written by the "righteous muslims" are something that was revealed by God? Because if it's not then God's warnings in 544-48 are in place.
Is it true that the hadiths written by the "righteous muslims" were actually said by the Prophet Muhammad? Or did he just actually convey the Quran as he admits in verse 1015?

If you come up with the conclusion that Al Quran is enough for you, I'm happy to discuss further, Inyasa Allah. Otherwise, it's only wasting your time.

Salam

jkhan

Salam jkhan,
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my previous posts regarding SALAT. I have limited words in English to describe it since it's not my main language.

But let me do my best to explain it again.

I got the meaning of SALAT from the following verses,

7531 falā saddaqa walā sallā
7532 walākin kadhaba watawallā

7531 For he did not accept the truth nor salla
7532 But he denied and turned away.

Saddaqa = accept the truth
La Saddaqa = didn't accept the truth = kadhaba = denied

La Salla = didn't Salla = Turned Away
Salla = Not turned away

So SALAT is not turn away, and I simplify this word as commitment.

The question is, commitment to what?

I have put many examples on what commitment should be made upon. But this really depends on the context of the verses. But let me put a verse that I think can explain much.

4103 Once you are done with SALAT, then remember God while standing, or sitting, or on your sides. Then, when you are secure, uphold the SALAT. Indeed, SALAT for the believers is a book that is scheduled.

As you can see, there are two salat in here

the one that already done
the one that will be done when they are secure, this SALAT is a book that is scheduled.

Let's take a look at the first one and find the context.

4101 And if you go forth in the land, then there is no harm that you taqsurū mina l-salati, if you fear that the disbelievers will try you. The disbelievers are to you a clear enemy.

4102 And if you are with them (the disbelievers) and you lead salata for them, then let a group from among them stand with you and let them bring their weapons; and when they have sajadū then let them be behind you; and let a group who has not yet yusallu come and falyusallu with you, and let them be wary and let them bring their weapons with them. The rejecters hope that you would neglect your weapons and goods so they can come upon you in one blow. There is no sin upon you if you are impeded by rainfall, or if you are ill, that you place down your weapons. And be wary. God has prepared for the rejecters a humiliating retribution.

These two verses is clearly about war between the believers and the disbeliever. In 4101, believers may taqsuru minal salati (I'll let them untranslated so we can derive the meaning later) if they fear that disbeliever will try them.

And take a look at this,

4102 And if you are with them and you establish SALATA for them....

"Them" in here is clearly refer to the disbelievers.. But my question is how the prophet and the believers when among them, establish the SALAT for them?

Put any SALAT forms that you can think to this verse. How the prophet lead the SALAT to the DISBELIEVERS? And why on earth the Disbelievers need to do SALAT with the prophet and his followers? They are disbelievers, off course.

Now let me put my understanding of SALAT on this verse,

4102 And if you are with them (the disbelievers) and you establish COMMITMENT (SALATA) for them....

Now it has more sense to me... But still raise a question... Commitment to what?

Let's go back a bit to understand the context of this verse

489 They hope that you will disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you will be the same. Do not take any of them as allies until they emigrate in the cause of God. If they turn away, then take them and kill them wherever you find them; and do not take from them any ally or supporter.

490 Except for those who reach a people with whom you have a covenant, or if they come to you with a reluctance in their chests to fight you or to fight their own people. Had God willed He would have given them strength and they would have fought you. But if they retire from you, and do not fight you, and they offer you peace; then God does not make for you a path against them.

So now as you can see above, there are two kind of disbelievers

Disbelievers that wants to turn you to disbelievers again just like them. For this you should fight them and kill them
Disbelievers that offer you peace to whom the believers have covenant. Allah did not provide a way to fight them