Kaba Corruption
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Both the Koran and the Holy Bible reveal the concept of the Holy Trinity.
Glad to hear more of this, but I think we'll open a new thread for this discussion. New thread to open in the Christianiy section, I'll send you the details in a PM.
Since the Creator revealed in the Holy Bible exists independent of time itself, I would say that the difference between the Holy Spirit and the Father, is derived from our relative frame of reference to that of the Creator Himself.
So the 'father' and and the 'holy spirit' are releative frames of reference to the same entity. That leaves just God the holy spirited father, and Jesus the son of God who is combined into the supreme deity. How did this turn to be a 'trinity' theory?
From the perspective of a finite humans comprehension of an infinite Creator, He is revealing Himself from different vantage points
Same in the Quran, but not by three descriptions, of the son, the father and the holy spirit, that lead to a concept of trinity, but by things like the almighty, the merciful, the benevolent, the omniscient,... which are but descriptions, not components of the divine deity.
Now Apple Pie my friend, we'll leave this post as the last on the topic of the trinity in this thread, and we'll open a new thread, in an appropriate section to discuss this, seems we're both enjoying it.
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My conclusions are now that the "kaba" of arabia is infact a shivan idol, and the black stone is meant to represent vishnu's navel from which another God was created, forming the Trimurti, (The hindu trinity of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva please see "http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_trinity"). Perhaps this may explain why the christians try so hard to turn God into God, and Jesus and the 'holy spirit', the latter of which is often said to be hard to explain or understand. So it appears that the God's comanded way of life was also corrupted by hindu influence at the time of the bible as well! Not just the Quran! I think I might write an article on this in the near future, watch this space people...!
I would like to hear brother Ayman's views, with respect to his article 'language barrier'.
(This is a request repeat broadcast)
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1+1+1=1 only in the christian world lol
peace
Noah -
Even with all this evidence, you guys still have to prove that the Kabaa is not a Shrine for God. Sure it might have been made as an idol and was probably not built by Abraham, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't rededicated to God by Muhammad.
If you guys really want to prove that the Kabaa came into Islam at a later date after Muhammad, then you guys have a lot to prove. There is nothing recorded whatsoever of the Kabaa being rebuilt from scratch after Muhammad. If Muhammad destroyed all the idols in Mecca, and if the Kabaa is/was also an idol, then he would have destroyed the kabaa as well. If he didn't, clearly he must have not considered it an idol. Now, there is NO recorded event in which the Kabaa is rebuilt. Muawiyya did reconstruction on it, but it was never rebuilt. Just repair work.
To me, there is no difference between a shrine and an idol, but this is debateable. From my understanding, the Quran makes no justification for the kaba of arabia, and so we are trying to work out exactly where it came from and what it is. This thread isn't here to prove anything. We can't prove anything by pulling thngs out of history books, much like hadith books.
The way you guys are going, it would then make sense that the story of Abraham and Sarah actually comes from the Hindu myth of Brahma and Sarasvati. Ofcourse this isn't true. The Hindus probably knew of Abraham and Sarah and later deified them.
All this suggests is that abraham and sarah came and then the history books came after them (hindu scriptures, possibly originally God's word that werere corrupted), and thus Abraham became brahma. This isn't hard to do over time.
Was kabaa built by abraham? Probably not as the first shrine for God was built by Abraham at Becca. Becca is definetly not Mecca. Who knows where this shrine is. Thats probably why the Qurans says we should go there if we can find the path. However as the Quran says, the Kabaa was made the Shrine. Now, do I agree with bowing down to this Kabaa, no. There is no command from God to bow down to a man made object.
Point is, Kabaa was known to Muhammad and he didn't destroy it for a reason. There is no evidence proving other wise. If any of you can bring forth proof that the Kabaa was built again after Muhammad, then you have a case. Otherwise, no one is going to believe or follow all of these theories.
As a note, I myself have been looking for evidence that the Kabaa was rebuilt after Muhammad, that perhaps Muwaya did more than just repair work on the Kabaa, but I have to face the facts, there is no such evidence.
Fair enough.